Dell kills the XPS brand
Dell kills the XPS brand
What would be the Dell option for a conservatively styled laptop that has a GeForce RTX GPU?
Seems that Dell is pushing to their Alienware line but their laptops are just ugly
"Dell shoots itself in the foot and will only realise in 3 years"
I still remember when XPS was the premiere gaming brand Dell released to compete with the likes of Alienware, only for them to buy Alienware and relegate XPS to a higher budget multimedia catalog.
The names outstayed their welcome, but I cannot applaud them copying Apple's homework.
Dear random strangers,
I have bought Thinkpad T for many years following your advice. Then I moved to Dell Latitude 3 years ago as this was your recommendation. So far, very happy with them!
Where should I go for my next laptop? Is it time for framework?
(I'm looking for 14" business laptops, excellent screen, good audio, light and solid, performance is a nice-to-have, Linux-only)
I have owned a Framework 13 AMD for about half a year and I have to say that it's a bit overpriced for what it is. It's probably a better idea to just get a similarily priced Windows laptop (like Asus Zenbook or Lenovo X1 Carbon / T-series) and install Linux on it.
For good graphics performance in a smallish package, I like Lenovo Legion.
If graphics aren't a concern, then I have no more specific recommendation, too much choice. I like flip style laptops, but I don't know if those have proper Linux support. I'd also look for a screen larger than 14", but with thin bezels.
Don't get a framework. It's a gimmicky waste of money.
Why exactly do you need a new laptop, anyways? Have your hardware requirements really increased that much in 3 years to warrant looking for a new device?
While I like the general objectives behind framework, I am not convinced about their standard qualities.
My laptop is fine, I just want to understand the trends in the industry and where to buy when it eventually dies. For the record, I have a Dell Latitude 7410 released in 2020 (bought used) and it works perfectly. However, I wish I could have better audio, higher-quality trackpad, and a lighter laptop.
Why do you say that about the framework?
Yes get a framework.
Thanks!
MSI seems rock solid.I would never again recommend MSI.. I bought a 3000€ MSI Creator 3 years ago for work :
- the hinges are breaking apart
- some metal part on the size broke
- the keyboard letter are scraping off
- the microphone on Linux is unusable because of the fans
Reaplcing the keyboard requires a full body replacement, which costs like 300€ 🙃
I've also had some very bad experiences with a entry price gaming msi for someone in my family.
The worst build laptop that I've ever held in my hands was from MSI. Cooling problems that made the fans work almost permanently at full blast (even after repasting by the shop), underperforming for the specs, a chassis with too much flex and a broken screen hinge after slightly more than 2 years (just out of warranty). When I looked up the screen hinge problem, it turned out to be an old recurring problem that MSI never bothered to fix when releasing new models, like they couldn't be arsed to give a fuck.
This laptop was bought in about 2017 or 2018 after which I put MSI on the do not buy list. It's possible that they've improved their quality since then, but I doubt it, given that I can find the same complaints in forum posts from 2024:
https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threads/are-hinge-issues-still-a-thing.343279/page-5
Why the fuck did it even take them that long? Alienware acquisition was in 2006.
Well that sucks. I haven't bought an XPS since the Dell XPS 15z like over a decade ago, but still, the idea that I could buy an XPS Developer Edition laptop and have it be Linux compatible without having to think about it was nice. Now I'm limited to ThinkPads and System76 plus whatever other compatible Clevos there are or maybe a Framework, which I guess is fine since I do own multiple ThinkPads.
Still, really weird decision.
They're not actually getting rid of the XPS line, they're just changing the naming convention.
Any of the new Dell models with 'Premium' in the name are going to be the same as the Dell XPS line.
Asus ROG series to MSI seems interesting this CES, personally don’t see much problem with compatibility through Pop!_OS
But which of these new models will have AI?!
replacing them with three main product lines: Dell (yes, just Dell), Dell Pro, and Dell Pro Max.
PC/Android companies not trying to blatantly rip off Apple challenge: Impossible
Calling a product the same as your brand is like calling a movie "The". Good luck finding it online.
I guess it streamlines the naming a little bit, but it sounds like the mapping of the hardware to the names is still a mess. I've used XPS laptops for years, but had already decided my next would be a Framework. This just reinforces that decision.
The latest XPS laptops really seem like they wanted to copy MacBook Pros from a few years ago with the touch function keys and the barren I/O.
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway. If you want performance, buy a Precision; if you want a light robust laptop with decent I/O, get a Latitude; if you want a MacBook, get a MacBook.
With that being said the new naming scheme feels like a joke. What's wrong with recognisable model names?
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway. I
IMHO
Software development and Media work that can benefit from normal consumer video acceleration. They are a lot cheaper than the Precision line and for non-cad/AI tasks and generally outpreform them. The XPS cases are more durable than the latitude and they come with better options for processors and video cards.
From a business standpoint, they were the best option if you needed a normal video accelerator.
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway.
The issue here is that you are comparing it to their business lineup, while it was a consumer product.
Dell XPS ("Extreme Performance System") is a line of consumer-oriented laptop and desktop computers manufactured by Dell since 1993.
My understanding is that it was their premium consumer line sitting above the more entry level Inspiron line.
I know that the XPS is meant to be a prosumer product but I think the comparison is fair either way, mostly because you can actually buy both as a consumer. Dell doesn't lock you out from buying a Latitude if you're not an enterprise customer.
Latitudes aren't sold at big box stores, that's about the only difference the target audience makes to the general consumer.
The newest generation of xps i shit anyways, good riddance.
i was really happy with my 2019ish xps. But the 2024 one is hot garbage. not just that it arrived with the keyboard not working and Dell taking 3 months to replace it. There's a total of 2 usb-c ports on it. That's all the connectors, yes. No, no headphone jack either. And one of those two is taken up with charging, so i'm left with one port if i dont use a dockingstation.
the whole function bar is touch now. you need to hit it 3 times for it to react, who needs Esc anyways. Unless you want to type in the number row, then the function row will pick up random key presses sometimes.
Copilot key no one asked for. Power button is just an unlabelled piece of plastic that looks like filler, not a button. Keyboard sucks in general, too little space between keys, you're bound to mistype.
linux support is ok, though webcam doesn't work in firefox, hibernate doesn't work, every few weeks it'll just freeze. But otherwise acceptable.
definitely my last dell, i really hate it.
[Edit] Oh and I forgot the best part, when the dell repairman finally repaired it after 3 months, he said "oh a new XPS? Yeah, those suck, every customer hates them especially for software development"
Weird, isn’t that the only Dell brand people view as worth having?
I have a 2018 XPS 15. I really like the machine but have also had more problems than any other laptop I've owned. The chassis fell apart spontaneously because an internal screw mount snapped. 1 month repair. Had to redo the CPU thermal paste to resolve overheating issues. Had driver issues with audio coming back from sleep that took me a year to figure out. Had to turn off Thunderbolt to get USB-C back functioning. Memory card reader keeps unmounting itself. Doesn't have TPU, so I had to jump through hoops to get W11, which I need for some work stuff. Just a lot of drama. The screen is still wonderful to this day, and it has a nice keyboard, weight, and performance with 32 gb ram and faster SSD, but I don't think I'll get a new Dell. If I'm going to spend so much time tinkering with the laptop, I'd rather have a Framework that's fully designed for tinkering
As an IT guy, recent (past five years) XPS laptops we gave to execs were pretty bad. Smaller, yes, but I found the Latitudes were better in terms of build quality. It is a small sample size though as most execs preferred MacBooks.
Imo this kind of shows the basic problem with the xps line. As I understand it it was basically the premium consumer line, not something meant for business use. Meaning it had the nice specs on paper, but not the durability you'd need in a setting with extensive use and where downtime means serious money. But as you demonstrate this distinction was too blurry.
Used to be a field repair tech for several oems. The XPS usually suffered hinge issues. They decided it was a good idea to use press fitted standoffs in plastic to anchor the screen hinges...and the plastic is not very thick.
I believe the precision series kind of took over. They are high-end models but not really built for gaming. At this point, the XPS wasn't built for gaming either, so I guess having 2 high-end lines just didn't make sense?
Edit: I should have read the article first! I guess all the names are going away. I don't care for the new names either, but both were pretty bad. The only difference is we got used to what it is now despite how little sense it made.
the top level names are fine I guess, but all the sub tier names are too much.
Some companies prefer Dell as an American held company; for security reasons. Dell's Precision line supports high-end needs such as 3d modeling, theoretical testing for real world applications, statistical analysis of large datasets, etc.
That is where Dell fits. And yes, they have consumer models. I don't care for the latter.
I have a precision and an XPS,
Chassis is the same, keyboard, touch screen, pad are the same. Processor, disk, Wi-Fi and memory options are the same. Warranty and on premises technician same.
Prices are not the same, and sometimes precision has more GPU options. And I think a 17 inch screen, but these are a different line under the same brand name.
But one has official Linux support and the other doesn't. But since all hardware is the same, surprise, it just works.
We've been flirting with Lenovo legion. In my business we need strong video cards. Shipping white boxes and monitors to people is a real issue with work from home.
We were solely running XPS for years.
The legion aren't bad, The worst of it is the power brick is a barrel connector. No running off of USB power delivery.
One of the units had a failed fan. I tore it apart and found the part number, I was actually pretty pissed off because you couldn't buy just the fan you had to buy the whole heat distribution block with both fans and the heat pipes and everything. But then I found the part was only about 50 bucks. Dell wouldn't even sell me parts without me being certified. So I bought the Lenovo heat block and it showed up with pre-compounded processor, GPU, and VRM pads. It was super impressive and for 50 bucks honestly it was a steal.
I own a Lenovo legion and the main issue is that it sucks on battery, it’s heavy, and the power brick is huge and expensive (I think close to 300€). Other than that it’s a beast. But if you have legions for business, you’ll struggle in meetings were people don’t want to bother with power cables and supplies.
Pretty happy with the G series, but only because the XPS series for replaced by it in terms of bang for buck. And honestly, the G series we got are pretty good.
I remember the XPS Was "Ubuntu Certified" thats what i think when i first see the Laptop.
Prepared to be heartbroken ~
what the fuck?
why kill your best brand?
ohhh...because you outsourced your entire product development teams to "offshore units" and haven't innovated since 2015.
Sounds eerily similar to Intel although they’re trying good with the GPU side of things.
What Intel makes up for in GPU, they loose in CPU.
What AMD makes up for in CPU, they loose in GPU.Now we need Nvidia to see whether it will be a full blown flop or full-on dominatiom.
At that point (with Nvidia) you'd only need a CPU, RAM and a MB to make a nearly all Nvidia PC.
An Nvidia case exists already, GPU, networking (NIC, Switch and cabling)
I'd like people to actually read the article before commenting. They are renaming their laptops. They'll continue producing what would've been XPS.
"Dude, you're getting a Dell Max Pro Premium" doesn't quite have the same ring to it....
But will name them Max Pro, killing the XPS brand. You know, like the title says
But many commenters think they will just stop producing these laptops. You know, like my comment explains.
If it matters to you, Michael Dell is pro-genocide:
Better headline: Dell kills all brands
Given that Dell has lost most of it's old reputation in the last couple of years, not surprising that radical moves were taken. Trying to navigate Dells product range was a quick way to get a headache.
It seems like the higher ups doesn’t care or even feel like it, they just want to be Apple… first the possibly even worse version of Touchbar and now this^
They're like 20 years too late to start copying Apple here. Apple had their shit together with their product line for a good while after Steve Jobs returned and eliminated the absolute insanity of Apple's mid-90s lineup, which had at least three times more models than any sane person would find useful.
But recently, Apple went off the deep end. Boggles the mind that "Pro Max" ever made it past the brain-mouth barrier in a boardroom, let alone into an official product lineup.
Agreed. I used to be a hardcore Dell fan, especially for their monitors, but I tried a new model this year and it was such horrible garbage that I had to return it. Their support was nearly non existent.
Which reputation? I used to work for a dell heavy hoster with thousands of dell servers almost 20 years ago - and apart from them being cheap I have nothing good to say about them. Worst is the remote management - several generations of DRACs all broken in new and interesting ways, and support is useless. You just get better discounts at that scale, which for a business owner drowns out the complaints of the tech people.
Notebooks also have similar bugs over generations - and nowadays they also feel even cheaper than they used to be.
Displays were somewhat acceptable - given you're fine to work around the DPMS bugs they have in pretty much every display for the last two decades - but their display selection page is unusable and lacks most interesting details. So it is better to just get something you can check out in a shop.
Weird. I thought XPS was a pretty well known brand.
Stupid higher up decisions, remember HBO?
simplified naming scheme with labels like ‘Pro’ and ‘Max.’
How is that "simplified"? Which one is better, Pro or Max?
Actual simplified naming would probably be names like "Basic", "Business", "Gaming", or numbers like what Intel does with Core 3/5/7/9.
Which one is better, Pro or Max?
Dell Pro Max Plus, obviously.
Promax feels like ED pills
I’ll hold out for the Pro Max Ultra
You forgot Ultra
I suspect, at some level, that the confusing naming is kind of the point.
What's the difference between Pro and Max? If the names were clearer, you probably wouldn't check the website to clear up the confusion.
It nudges potential buyers into interaction with company marketing.
It would be more simple to call some things basic, but it'll never happen for the same reason food and drinks places have started drifting away from calling things "small, medium, large" and towards the much more stupid "Regular, Large, Extra-Large". Starbucks goes even more pretentious with it.
You'd be more likely to have something extremely dumb like Premium (shit-tier), Premium Pro (midrange), Premium Ultra (actually premium).
Yeah, sadly everything has to sound fancy. Imo this is partially to blame on consumers, but I do wonder how much of it is basic psychology vs induced demand that could be reversed if a company would stick with sensible product names for a while.
Instead of basic they could also go with something like "essential" or "home" that maybe have slightly less negative associations.
Not saying it’s any better but haven’t you heard of iPhones?
Neither my wife nor I own any Apple devices, but living in the San Francisco Bay Area, I'm surrounded by people that do. There's no need for other companies to copy Apple's questionable decisions.
Yes, I’ll take one Dell Pro Max Premium please. Heck, while we’re it, please make it a Dell Pro Max Premium Ultra Deluxe with Extra Sprinkles.
AMD now has "Max" chips and Dell now has "Pro" and "Max" laptops.
Everyone copying Apple.
AMD has the worst naming schemes in the industry, I miss the simple old i3, i5, i7… for each generation.
Well AMD just blatantly copied Nvidia's naming scheme for their new GPUs so maybe they'll copy Intel for their CPUs. I mean, they kind of already did, since the Ryzen 9 is basically i9, and the Ryzen 7 is basically i7 etc. It's mostly AMDs mobile CPUs that have horrendous names, but Intel really isn't much better in that department.
I wish there was a Company that inspired the Design/Build Quality of the Thinkpad for their Laptop rather then Apple.
Same as it ever was
Wait, "Dell Pro max" isn't a joke? Or at least not an intentional one?
Just wait til you hear about "Dell Pro Max Plus".
Is that the extra absorbent one?
In the future, it means we can also expect product names like Dell Pro Max Plus.
oh I can't wait for 2030 to get my new Dell Pro Max Plus Most Biz VIP Tip Top Rizz
The base model or the AI Max Pro Plus model?
by 2030 it'll all be AI
There are actually people getting paid for this shit
Are they just sitting in a group in multiple meetings to brainstorm new names for stuff?
And I thought just managers are parasites...
Ironically the people getting paid for this shit did come up with better names and they were all overturned by senior management who read a business book over the weekend. SSDD.
Looks like I won't be getting a Dell anytime soon. Shame. I loved my last XPS before they decides to nuke the ports with just two USB-C.
Nobody will
How prescient Orwell turned out to be.
Premium Pro Max Doubleplus Good.
When I was reading the article, my mind was high on memes~
So many corporations have used the words "Pro" and "Max" that they have now become meaningless.
HBO → MAX 🤦🏻♂️
Intensely dumb.
Not sure which is the dumbest, Jaguar letting go of its signature mark or HBO renaming themselves to just Max but would be funny if Apple abandoned the Max naming for Ultra.
Should have just borrowed Lenovo 30 naming schemes
I always found the build quality for Lenovo Thinkpads to be better than any of the top tier Dell laptops. Most of the laptops I had in circulation were Dells and the always gave me problems. The Thinkpads just worked.
I never got the allure of Lenovo. the Chinese spyware left a bad taste in my mouth.
I had an X1 years ago bit I'll take my 9360 over that any day.
The prestige behind the thinkpad brand specifically predates lenovo. They bought it from IBM in '05. AFAIK they've always been seen as reliable, well built laptops, albeit a bit pricier.
As far as spyware, with win11 being what it is your options are install Linux or live with it no matter which manufacturer you go with.
My late-aughts XPS is a gem - milled aluminum, edge-to-edge glass, and the best laptop keyboard ever since Ye Olde Thinkpads. The glory days of chasing Apple with a Windows box and almost getting there. *pours 40*
That said, their QE went to shit, they pulled that bullshit RTO to soft-layoff everyone, laid off everyone else directly, and spent a ton to hire non-US replacements who aren’t up to speed so they can leverage the exciting benefits of AI (lol).
I’ll never understand why they didn’t put huge effort into backing linux when micro$oft started making hardware. Well - I know why they didn’t. Because they make poor managerial decisions. C’est ça.
Land of marketing and advertising, gotta ruin everything. RIP XPS, good little machines.
I-- wow. I read this article and I have no idea what they're thinking. How does this simplify anything?!
so honestly, who would you use now? I'd never buy HP, Acer, Lenovo. total crap machines. what other brands of laptop are any good going into 2025/2026? The XPS was always my go-to but now what options are remaining?
As I work with HP and HPE at work:
Just don't buy anything below ProBook and EliteBook. They are trash.In fact, don't buy anything you see at an electronic retailer without looking and inspecting the product very intensely.
And buy the business-line. They are usually better than consumer product lines.At this point I build my desktops and I'll buy Framework laptops.
I honestly still like Thinkpad. Using a T14s currently.
I love my framework, though it's not as small and battery efficient as my previous xps 13
Dell XPS and Lenovo X1 Carbon are the best laptops for running Linux. I currently have an AMD Framework and, while it's nice that it's repairable, Linux support is crap compared to the XPS and X1. I was actually looking into selling this junk Framework laptop and buying an X1 Carbon.
What don't you like about your Framework? I haven't noticed anything wrong with mine, but haven't had it long.
At least it will be clear which one is high tier and which is the opposite. Precision and latitude are incomparable except one reads their specs. Also, I assume they aren't touching G-series and that's the only one that matters to me:) G15 is just an amazing product.
How though? Is "pro" better than "max"?
Also, how is there a Max Plus ? How about a Most Maxiest model ?
I mean… Dell Pro Max?
What would you’ve understood if it was Apple Pro Max; a laptop, a desktop, an iPhone or software if not a subscription package?
Something I think is a lot more interesting than them changing names of product lines is that almost all Dells ship with an OEM version of windows which reaches EoL faster, like 5 years sooner, and is more expensive to get a replacement disk image.
I had a tower about 10 years ago that I converted into a dinky little Linux Server, it worked really well all things considered.
Resurrecting their commercials from the 90’s now, it would go like this:
Duuuude, you’re gettin’ a Dell.
Oh….. dang.
Ugh.
Now kill Dell entirely.
Wait 'til they switch from Intel to their custom d1 CPUs.
