Literally my ex, any the typical reactions, where somehow I'm to blame for her insanity, because men are all bad and women are always right.
Ironically, she was cheating. Its always projection with the psychopaths.
My wife once hit me in front of my kids because she didn't like my pointing out a double standard in how she was treating them. The one she was favoring recently started hitting the other one in a similar manner--basically just to silence her when she said something he didn't like--and when I pointed out the similarity to my wife's actions and suggested he had learned it from her she got mad and claimed that rather than hitting me she had "hit my hand away" which is a lie and she knows it. It is 100% classic spousal abuse and gaslighting, and yet due to the sheer size difference between us--I'm a foot taller--I feel ridiculous calling it that, and don't want to find out what else my son learns is OK from his mom if I'm not around, so here I am still married to her, mostly trying to forget the abuse when it's not actively happening. She's been abusive, but I'm not really in any physical danger, so staying seems like the rational option in my situation... I imagine that's relatively common among men.
Hey man, I don't know your situation and all the details, but it's not at all ridiculous to call it spousal abuse or gaslighting. That's fucking dark, and that your son is picking up on it is darker. Your other kid likely isn't blind to it either, especially since she's started receiving that sort of treatment and being treated as the scapegoat. That sort of situation leaves deep scars on both spouse (you) and children. You don't have to be in physical danger (though abuse often escalates) to be in danger. Damage from abuse lasts a lifetime.
I am a 6'6'', 280lbs man and my ex-wife was a 4'7'' 97lbs woman. She would hit me and psychologically abuse me a lot, and nobody would give a shit because "how can she hurt you? You're such a big guy!"
She would use weapons, you bastards! She would hit me while I was asleep! She would hit me in the nuts! And even if it didn't always physically hurt, it definitely hurt in other ways. Fuck off with that mentality.
Al..right. Let's do a little sanity check and let's see how up or downvoted is gets.
- It is absolutely true that violence against women is structurally endemic in our societies and they represent a large majority of domestic violence
- It is also absolutely true that domestic violence against men is clearly under-reported, to an unknown but significant extant
- It is absolutely true that abuse is abuse
Those assertions do not contradict each other.
1 is questionable, in part because of the claim that we don't know how under reported it is in 2. But also because there have been studies going back to the 70s suggesting that most violent relationships involve mutual violence, and the ones that don't aren't a large majority of men abusing women. For example, the woman who founded the first women's refuge in the UK had written that many of the women entering her shelter were as violent as the men they were leaving, giving a number a number that was pretty close to numbers Strauss, Gelles and Steinmetz came up with from their research in the 70
Those studies get questioned or minimized not because they have particularly bad issues with how they are done, but because the field is essentially subject to ideological capture and research that contradicts the goals of the activism at the time is worked against.
There's also some playing with terms and definitions that works against men in this kind of thing. To use a trans example, all women in the UK who rape are trans - this isn't because trans women are particularly likely to rape, but because rape is defined in the UK as requiring the perpetrator to penetrate the victim with the perpetrator's penis, which means cis women are incapable of "rape", but if you're a TERF and need something to support your point... For an example regarding men, Mary Koss (a prominent sexual assault researcher, enough so that you almost can't talk about the topic in the US without touching something descended from her work) was asked a question about men being raped by women about a decade ago in an interview. She responded with incredulity, asked how would that even happen, and when given an example who had been drugged into compliance was told by Koss that that wasn't rape, but "unwanted contact" and in other places she's made a point about the importance of keeping rape a word for female victims because men just don't feel hurt or shame in the same way.
Or NISVS where you see a couple of interesting things. One is playing with definitions where if a man copulates with a woman against her will it's "rape" but if a woman copulates with a man against his will it's "made to penetrate", with the latter being a subcategory of "Other" so as to obscure any kind of direct comparisons between them or that the two are as similar as they are. You also have this clearly demonstrated phenomenon that they seem to actively avoid discussing where previous year rape numbers are pretty similar (if you consider being "made to penetrate" equivalent to "rape") but in lifetime numbers men's reporting drops off drastically. I suspect this is caused by men not categorizing what happened to them in this way, in large part because they get told again and again that it doesn't count, that they were lucky, or similar until eventually they believe it.
Under-reported probably does not begin to capture it. I doubt 99.999% of instances of women hitting their man have ever been reported in human history, speaking from experience mostly due to pride.
Its a total double standard, as is almost everything with women. There I said it.
Rather than plain mysogyny, men and anti DV movements which men are part of should engage in their conception of pride, seeking help, admitting you can be a victim too and listening to other males victims. And if course when they want it legal action.
If you wish to solve the issue, that's the main way to go.
If you want to promote a conservative backlash about feminism and spread basic misogynistic views, you're on the right track though.
I've been working with movements and research efforts to make men more aware about reporting victimhood and seeking mental health help for years. I won't prove it because it would likely make my identity public, which I'm not comfortable doing here. Guess what ? I'm working with more feminist actors than you can imagine in your little echo chamber.
Also : "immensely under-reported", if that suits you better. But considering your visible agenda, I doubt it will.
Ha! #2 is wrong because you said extant instead of extent. I've got you now, sensible internet stranger! 🤓🤓🤓
Damn. I've been exposed!
100% on all points
I have been abused by both my mom and my partners. They took advantage of my insecurities, because of their insecurities. No one ever acknowledged it until recently. I have no trust in ever getting a relationship with someone who treats me equally. According to my therapists, I responded by turning into myself instead of developing a personality disorder. Apparently I'm too sweet.
I don't know that turning onward is a bad idea. It can be, if we get terrified and refuse to go deeper. What I mean is, grief work and rage work and all the icky stuff is necessary, as are breaks from the heaviness. Be gentle with yourself, friend.
I have a friend who I haven't been able to hang out with for several years because his wife is insane and posessive, and he's decided to just ride it out until the kids are all 18 so he can divorce her without having to pay her child support.
He'll still support his children, but he'll do it directly instead of through her.
It’s me, your buddy - well maybe not your exact buddy but a dude living in this same scenario.
Please hang out when that last kid turns 18 and we are free. It’s horribly lonely and there is no one to help. Getting a divorce just means she gets everything including all the time in the world to manipulate the kids.
Wow, think of the example he's setting. If his kids were in that marriage, would he recommend waiting for 1/5 of their life to go by with a horrible person? How will his kids even know how to have a loving relationship if his parents are that fucked up?
He's a coward who cares more about money than about being a good person or dad.
And that's most men in these relationships. Men would rather cheat and lie than be honest and extend basic respect and communication to their partners. And then get upset when women finally initiate divorce for the broken shitty relationship.
I just told a care provider recently that I've no idea if I'm capable of a healthy relationship, because I don't even know what one looks like from the outside, let alone from the inside. I'm nearly 60.
A parents obligation to their children is more nuanced than your implying, setting an example isn't the only factor. Not to mention abuse is used to break your will to stand up for yourself, and even if that weren't a factor, communication isn't possible with people unwilling to listen.
Relationships are a two way street, but when you've got kids., it's not just about the relationship with your partner anymore
Fucking hell dude, get the hell down from your horse. In a world where unwilling mother still gets rights to a child, what choice does that dude have? Hell, if he cares for his children, this is the best course of action, not only money wise.
And before you pull some shitty ass generalisation - I know three children from broken marriages, in two cases overall "normal" mothers used their children as bargaining chip. One of these children being me, and in third case mother denied father rights to see his child so much that currently that person loathes their mother.
My ex-wife was arrested for slapping me and breaking my glasses.
Like many other victims of abuse, I stayed married for several more years. Been away from that nutjob since 2009.
This reminds me of the Heard v Depp case, on the two X chromosomes subreddit there was this long ass comment from someone who experienced abuse and said she wasn't the "perfect victim" because she fought back and hurt her abuser back and how because of this it was harder to get away from her abuser.
And when I asked how does she know that in Heard v Depp case it isn't Depp who is the imperfect victim? Because he had multiple partners testifying to his character of being a kind man etc, while Heard had the opposite (AFAIK).
All I got was silence and downvotes.
And the men's lib sub is the best we will get when it comes to men's issues and that one sucks too.
The mens rights sub originally was a good place for dudes who were getting taken to the cleaners in divorce court, losing full custody of the kids just because the mom wanted em, and even an instance iirc of the wife taking the dog only to have em put down later.
Then it slowly mutated into a watered down version of incels
It's great if you love self-flagellation and victim blaming, though, lol 👍
Hive minds are strong remember to not rate your opinion based on how many up votes it gets
what then am i supposed to rate it on? /hj
Have you heard of battered woman syndrome? Do you understand the court case that lead to it?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francine_Hughes
The reason is that most men are physically stronger than most women and also we live in a heteropatriarchy that caters to men first. There was clearly mutual abuse by both partners, and both Amber and Johnny are raging narcissists- but Johnny has a bad past too, including a questionable relationship with Winona Ryder when she was young and extreme drug use that made him erratic. It's impossible to know who was abusing who or what was actually happening.
But I will say the leading expert on domestic violence, Lundy Bancroft, asserts that women are almost never the abuse initiator in relationships. Most serial killers, most violent offenders, are men. So yeah, women will typically blame the man because it's usually men.
I don't usually comment in these types of gender discussions, so I don't really know why I am commenting this. I hope you don't take me badly.
You say that we live in a society that caters to men first, which I unfortunately agree in general, adding later that, due to the usual prepertrators of the hideous crimes you listed being men (which I also agree), women usually jump to the conclusion that the man is the abuser. Knowing that, couldn't it be said that in this specific situation society caters to women rather than men? After all, you can't say "most abusers are men, therefore this abuser is a man." Each person is an individual. From a purely mathematical perspective, it indeed makes sense to suspect the man first, but that being the case, wouldn't bringing up that first point be:
a. True, but in matters unrelated to the discussion? b. Contradicting what you say in the end?
And therein lies my question to you. I am not that informed in these gender-related affairs and I am sorry if anything I said was wrong/insensitive, but I still ask this question, for no reason other than probably being sleepy. Thank you, and I apologize if I misunderstood anything. I did not watch the show that was mentioned, I really just wanted to ask about that specific part.
Woah stop making men feel safe and seen. Next thing they'll become feminists, or worse, empathetic and caring humans!
I actually spoke with some who said talking about problems specific to men, is somehow anti feminist, because it puts men into a victim role.
"Feminists" that base their feminism on pure misandry are counterproductive to the movement
I was once seeing a girl for a couple weeks that FUCKING ROOFIED MY DRINK so she could look through my phone while I was lying there watching her unable to move. It was absolutely fucked.
Terrifying. I've had other reasons to only use a passcode, but now I have another.
It's possible if you did a lot of weed or if you are a redhead, it might be harder to roofie/sedate you
I’m not either of those things. But I’m a pretty tall muscular man so my body weight probably helped.
This will keep happening as long as the left treats any acknowledgement of mens issues as a moral failing
Thanks, Mr. Blobfish! That's funny, I don't recall taking Ambien...
abusers are trash, no matter what their gender. May they all rot.
Really applies to most things. I'm not a dude, trans woman, but I've gotten sexually harassed a lot both pre and post transition and the response I got pre and post transition is night and day. Pretransition people treated me like I was crazy for feeling unsafe and like I was supposed to enjoy it.
Honestly, men should be allowed to feel unsafe around women, or really allowed to feel unsafe in general, and be taken seriously for it.I'm a guy.
I've been sexually assaulted multiple times in my life by both genders. The last time was at the hands of a boyfriend who made me no longer want to be Bi. I haven't been with another guy since and only date female now.
Honestly the response has never been in my favor. At the hands women it was ignored or blamed on me and by men I was told that I should have enjoyed it more. I've been belittled for not being gay enough to take being assaulted in public. And told I was being a problem for having it done to me in a work setting with apologies made for the perpetrator and then myself sent away.
I never get to feel unsafe and I never have gotten to feel seen for it. Not by other men. Not by the LGBTQ community, not by women, not even by doctors. It's devastating and yet there apparently is no right time to ever bring it forward. It's horrible that it feels we have specific socially acceptable ways to be traumatized and most of them are against men. And yet the loudest resistance feels like from the people being hypocrites cause it makes for an easier narrative.
I don't like people anymore.
One downfall of what I only hesitantly refer to as modern feminism (although really I'm talking about terfs and the terf-adjacent) is that it has painted men as dangerous by default. I'm also a trans woman so I've seen both sides of the coin, too... I do feel less safe now, this is true. Many things were easier when I was living as a man. But I was never dangerous or an abuser.
Nonetheless, a former partner used accusations of abuse against me and turned so many people on me. The only ones that stuck by me were former romantic partners, who knew the accusations couldn't have been true. For everyone else, it was so easy to accept that a man - even a clearly gentle one - would be an abuser.
In reality I've been a victim of abuse - physical, emotional, sexual... All long before I transitioned.
Im so sorry for you,hope you are better now ❤️
I hear you. I'm working voluntarily with (mostly) women who were abused horribly. Also mostly from an early child's age on to the point of being utterly broken. Fear of men is not only officially a thing in the ICD but also more or less the norm amongst those. The prejudice against me (2m wardrobe with a resting bitch face) is always palpable and always takes so much time to gain trust. Sometimes it's just impossible and that's very sad.
Long story short: yes. It's easy to prejudge men to be abusers. Sadly because most abuser probably are men. But it's also important to be able to see that not all of us are.
Also sorry to hear that. And i can totally see that happening...
I'm a guy and I have a cnc/rape kink (want to be ) but if a girl try to do it for real I would kick her ass no matter how pretty she would be. If you start thinking with your brain I don't understand how a guy could enjoy someone that toxic and disgusting.
Thanks for posting this! Being male and being abused is a very isolating experience on many levels. I wish good things upon you, friend.
Hope you are better now 🫂🫂
🫂
I am hoping for better things and healthier relationships in your future
But the only place men have to go to is an imaginary fish thing.
An abusive partner accusing the other of cheating is very often a projection of the fact they themselves had been cheating. Since they know they would cheat, and were/are, they either assume the other person is the same way, or simply don't want to draw attention to their affair. It's an awful thing.
It can also be a sign of past trauma. I.E. they were chested on before, and are projecting the behaviors of the past onto you. Also awful, but in a much more sad way.
I guess if she's suspecting other women, it's up to the bros to be there for him. Remember to support your bros and get them to seek help! (There's nothing unmanly about heart to hearts about abuse).
Where is this "safe place to go" you mention?
Alcohol
"I just wish someone was there for me"
The bottle of Jack Daniels in my car cupholder:
Wtf is that pink blob though
A blob fish.
Always remember...
This is kind of just victim-blaming though?
That's derogatory towards people who have mental health issues, though, most of whom are MUCH more likely to be victims of abuse than perpetrators.
Lemmy's continuing the progression from liberal privilege to MRA "activism". smh.
Saw this comment and thought I was on Reddit.
I think you got lost along the way.
Gr8 b8 m8
This one's low hanging fruit tho, need to try a bit harder
So you are okay that men can be abused?
Most people are. We deserve it for some reason.
"Yeah, just Candice..."
