Ocasio-Cortez Loses the Democratic Socialists’ Endorsement Over Israel
Ocasio-Cortez Loses the Democratic Socialists’ Endorsement Over Israel
The New York congresswoman was blamed for not being supportive enough of the Palestinian cause and efforts to end the war in Gaza.
The Democratic Socialists of America pulled its endorsement of Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York this week, accusing the progressive congresswoman of being insufficiently supportive of the Palestinian cause and efforts to end the war in Gaza..
Her approach has increasingly strained her relationship with some of the left’s most strident critics of Israel. When she rallied last month in the Bronx with Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Jamaal Bowman, dozens of pro-Palestinian demonstrators angry over her endorsement of Mr. Biden chanted “You’re a fraud, A.O.C.”
If you're getting angry at Bernie and AOC, you're probably on the wrong side of an issue
I may be dumb, but I actually trust those two, unlike every other politician, I feel like if they are making strange decisions they must know something we don't...
They've certainly built up the benefit of the doubt, especially Bernie.
Their conduct behooves anyone to look into and fully understand what they're doing before decrying them for a single act they instinctually might disagree with.
Especially a criticism like "haven't done enough".
I can't imagine any "haven't done enough" that overturns all of the very important work either of them have done or are doing.
They know how to play the long game and pick their battles.
From what I know, it seems Bernie has had the the stance on most thing since he was fighting against the vietnam war.
Fuck that, AOC voted to protect the rail corporations from the unions striking.
I'm just surprised that wasn't the reason she has lost the support of the DSA.
The DSA are actually fucking brain dead. They have been on the wrong side of everything for at least a decade. They simped for all the dictators, tyrannical regimes, and terrorist groups. They've gone out of their way to hurt the Democrats in elections, while stimulations helping the Republicans. They've always adopted brain dead stances for domestic issues and endorsed disgusting ideologies that makes them repulsive to most people. They're a tumor to the left that needs to be removed.
Politics shouldnt be a matter of picking a team/ idol and supporting them blindly.
If a politician you formerly supported does something stupid, like how both Bernie and AOC have done recently, you aren't obligated to support them. You can and should rescind your support if they do something you disagree with. Both Bernie and AOC could be much much stronger on Gaza, and frankly, especially AOC has basically backstabbed/ abandoned the movement that got her into power. She's got "star power" at this point, where "cheer leaders" are just going to support her regardless of her policies or effectiveness. Its sad, but its how modern politics works. You start on the outside, work your way in, and then abandon those who put you into power initially.
There is no way the squad gets elected without Our Revolution/ Justice Democrats/ DSA, then venn diagram of which is pretty fucking overlapping. All of the squad minus Omar and Ro Khanna basically stopped taking any calls from progressives once we put Biden in office in 2020.
What you're saying doesn't reflect reality.
Sanders and AOC are incredibly active progressive politicians.
AOC just introduced articles of impeachment against supreme Court Justices.
You can and should rescind your support if they do something you disagree with
that is childish.
how many important questions are there to define your worldview?
- do you support israel in the war? - yes/no
- do you support abortion? - yes/no
- ...
there is about 8 billion people in the world right now.
log2(8billion) is roughly 32.9.
2 to the power of 33 is roughly 8.6 billion. that is 8.6 billion different combinations formed by these 33 binary questions.
that is for whole world; for usa with population of 350m the magic number is 29 questions (behold the power of exponential function 😆)
in other words - if there is more than 33 binary questions to define your approach to world - there is statistically not a single other person in the world that would share your worldview completely (that is as long as the various worldviews are distributed evenly, which is probably not the case, but lets simplify here).
that is why, if you want to find a common ground with someone, you sometimes have to compromise (as every person who has ever been married tells you).
otherwise you will just end up alone and that is not strong negotiating position to change the world.
Common DSA L.
Fucking idiots. Pulling your endorsement of one of the top fucking 5% of most Pro-Palestinian Congresscritters for being INSUFFICIENTLY pro-Palestine.
Yeah they chose quite the time to make the perfect the enemy of the good
AOC doesn't get elected without DSA in 2018.
If you can't pull back your endorsement as a political organization, you have no power.
The progressive revolution that genuinely found its footing in 2015 is over. The figureheads have been captured and its going to be a 'rebuilding'/ 'consolidation' cycle while we weather the facist takeover.
If you can’t pull back your endorsement as a political organization, you have no power.
Cool. If you pull back your endorsement of someone who is already one of the most aligned representatives of the fucking country with your agenda because you want her to go even further, why the everloving fuck do you think anyone will ever choose to align with you? You're an unreliable ally who punishes your supposed allies for getting nearer your position, and empowering people who are MUCH further away from your (very much non-majority and non-plurality) position. Do you really not see how fucking counterproductive that is?
But hey, since when have little concerns like "This is actually putting a corporate stooge in power" or even "This will lead to fascism winning" ever bothered Left purists? They aren't the ones who suffer.
The progressive revolution that genuinely found its footing in 2015 is over. The figureheads have been captured and its going to be a ‘rebuilding’/ ‘consolidation’ cycle while we weather the facist takeover.
Jesus fucking Christ.
And if you don't know how to build a coalition, you'll never have power.
Step one to building a coalition is to find someone you don't agree with 100%.
left wing is so busy ripping itself apart while right has fully consolidated, good luck winning elections. This is practically handing POTUS45 his POTUS47 title. US left wing always picks wrong timing to settle internal scores which is why it's always flatfooted and toothless.
No, no, THIS time handing over power to fascists will DEFINITELY make the left in this country strong.
/s since that's literally what's being said by these fucking people who go on about how the
national rebirth'reconstruction' of the political environment under a Trump regime is how we get progressive victories.like in definition of insanity: making the same mistake over and over expecting different outcomes? Yeah by that definition US left is insane.
In reality I have never encountered people who strictly define themselves as “leftist”, “liberal”, “progressive”, “socialist”, “democratic socialist”, “communist”, “center-left”, “moderate left”, etc.
seems like an attempt to drive wedges. Remember: We are all for a viable candidate that advances those issues even partially, versus the polar opposite.
Remember: We are all for a viable candidate that advances those issues even partially, versus the polar opposite.
Not all of us, unfortunately.
while right has fully consolidated
Well, apart from the literal assassination attempt.............
The right has so much infighting that it's dirty to even call them 'the right' as if it's a single group. If the US weren't using a FPTP system with the threat of vote spoiling, it would be much clearer just how split all political factions really are. Neo-Nazis have been calling Trump "Zion Don" for the past ten years and crying about all his links to da jooz and blags, the Libertarians disagree so much that about 2 million of them voted their own party instead of Rep or Dem in 2020. There's even PACs like the Lincoln Project.
The reason it's important to recognize this is that it's important to know their weaknesses. They're not all one homogeneous group, and many of them literally want to kill each other.
fighting or not they have all lined up behind POTUS45 even if previously they criticized him etc. At the time when left is dilly-dallying and builds up "resistance centers". Look, all the pro-Gazan declarations with conditional support for Biden is a waste of air as as soon as POTUS45 will grab his POTUS47 title it's game over and they will have no recourse, and more likely than not public protests will get slowly outlawed. Look North of the border for examples of how it's done (Alberta, Canada)... so no matter what they do nothing is going to change now the only differentiator is that Biden may listen whereas POTUS45 absolutely will not.
It’s much more difficult to build something than it is to tear it down.
That's why we should have Ranked Choice voting. people could give their preference a chance, while still counting their vote against those they don't want in office.
It's because they always get angry and start pointing fingers when things get tough.
Can I just say FUCK The Democratic Socialists of America, those scumbags can eat a bag of dicks.
Just look at their stances, views, and activities:
- They blame the US for the Russian invasion of Ukraine
- They want the US to pressure Ukraine to surrender to Russia under the guise "negotiations"
- They want the US to leave NATO
- They support the Venezuelan dictator, Maduro, so much that they literally sent a fucking delegation there to meet him
- They organized a tone deaf pro-Palestinian rally on Oct 8th right after the attacks when the world was still in shock
- They outright want the destruction of Israel. Not a two state solution, not coexistence, but the eradication of Israel
- They quite literally want open borders
- The organization is full of full blown vile Marxists who to "abolish capitalism" and establish socialism
- They condemn social democracy
- In 2016 they refused to endorse Hillary and spearheaded the movements that called for people to boycott voting Democrat, which led to Trump winning
- In 2020 they refused to endorse Biden and spearheaded the movements that called for people to boycott voting Democrat, which helped Trump make the election closer than it should've been
- In 2024 they're doing the same exact thing by refusing to endorse Biden again
They have ALWAYS simped for all the dictators and authoritarian regimes. They have always had the most brain dead stances on foreign policy issues. They subscribe to a colossal failure of an ideology, and their interests are not with the US succeeding. They are nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries.
The organization and movement at large is nothing more than the far left and the most whacko of Bernie Supporters that even he is uncomfortable with. I'm glad AOC went from being a fringe extremist politician to becoming more pragmatic and moderate. She has been winning me over more and more lately, and this just proves that she's moving in the right direction. Once again, the DSA can get fucked.
The organization is full of full blown vile Marxists who to “abolish capitalism” and establish socialism
Well, yeah, they're socialists. Why shouldn't they want to abolish capitalism and establish socialism? There's nothing vile about that.
They outright want the destruction of Israel.
The dissolution of the state of Israel. Their worldview understands it as a settler-colonial ethnostate, just like former apartheid South Africa was. Jews, Christians, Muslims and others co-existed in Palestine before the Zionist state of Israel was established, the two-state situation is segregation caused by the establishment of a Zionist regime.
They organized a tone deaf pro-Palestinian rally on Oct 8th right after the attacks when the world was still in shock
That is a perfectly-appropriate time to rally support. They are pro-Palestinian and wanted to make it clear that people believed the resistance was supported, regardless of whether they are critical of the methods. The mass media gets to have its voice immediately, so rallies should not wait either.
They condemn social democracy
Yes. Democratic socialists are not capitalists and would not consider liberal democracy (especially the US version!) a working form of democracy, and don't consider social capitalist parties within it to be effective because they must work within a broken system. Social democracy is a false hope to them.
And their interests are not with the US succeeding, they are nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries.
Most socialists will understand the US as a settler-colonial imperialist state from day 1, so yes, their interests are ultimately that the US (as we know it) should stop being imperial terrorists that most of the world (including state allies) hate. But to call that being "nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries" is ignorant of the very real and growing discontent with the US's own borders. A lot of US citizens hate the US governments and how they work, and to blame that on foreign adversaries will ultimately prevent them from being solved and prevent their numbers growing.
Well, yeah, they’re socialists. Why shouldn’t they want to abolish capitalism and establish socialism? There’s nothing vile about that.
No, that in itself is vile. The reason why neo Nazis are despised is because they subscribe to a hateful, idealist, and tyrannical ideology that ended up failing every time it was tried and has killed tens of millions of people. There's another idealist ideology that also got popular around the same time, but had the same fate of failure, tyranny, and resulted in the deaths of tens of millions... what was that ideology again? Oh that's right, it's Marxist socialism. You're not morally superior to fascists, you're just as trash as them. If Marxist socialists had a similar movement in size and influence to Trump and MAGA and were in a position to win, the sane majority would be just as terrified, and rightfully so.
The dissolution of the state of Israel
"We stand against genocide!!! ...but not that one, that one is okay"
Jews, Christians, Muslims and others co-existed in Palestine before the Zionist state of Israel was established, the two-state situation is segregation caused by the establishment of a Zionist regime.
This is the type of ignorance that I expect from Marxists. Israel and Palestine are both artificial states created around the same time. There has literally never been a moment in human history where a sovereign state called Palestine existed. Before the current states Israel and Palestine, there was the British Mandate that was arbitrarily drawn... just like the British and French did with the rest of the region. Before that, it was the Turkish Ottoman Empire, and they had completely different divisions of the region. Before that, it was the Egyptian Malmuk Empire, and they also had their own divisions of the region. The same thing goes for the Ayyubid Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, and the crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem... but at that point we've gone back 1000 years. This narrative that you cling to is not true.
That is a perfectly-appropriate time to rally support.
Ukraine just got invaded, quick, hold a pro-Russian rally. What? ISIS just massacred a Yezidi village? I guess it's a perfectly appropriate time to hold a pro ISIS rally. Hmm, Al Qaeda appears to have launched planes into buildings in New York, I guess it'll be wise to stand solidarity with the islamist resistence.
Because why be principled and stand with victims against senseless violence when we can be a brain dead ideologue who's pro terrorism and genocide when it suits your ideological goals and anti terrorism and genocide when it doesn't? If you ever wondered why the far left never seems to get a foothold anywhere, this is why.
They are pro-Palestinian and wanted to make it clear that people believed the resistance was supported, regardless of whether they are critical of the methods. The mass media gets to have its voice immediately, so rallies should not wait either.
What kind of a heartless ghoul do you have to be to support the Oct 7th terrorist attacks against innocent civilians?
Yes. Democratic socialists are not capitalists and would not consider liberal democracy (especially the US version!) a working form of democracy, and don’t consider social capitalist parties within it to be effective because they must work within a broken system. Social democracy is a false hope to them.
Of course, of course. I mean why would you ever support a pragmatic ideology that has consciously proven to be a success to those who have tried it and has resulted in the freest, most democratic, and most prosperous societies in human history when you can support a failed tyrannical ideology that has killed tens of millions? Clearly, with the power of hindsight at our disposal, we can clearly see the latter is a better choice than the former /s.
Most socialists will understand the US as a settler-colonial imperialist state from day 1,
That's literally the origin of every single country in history. What alternate reality do you live in?
so yes, their interests are ultimately that the US (as we know it) should stop being imperial terrorists that most of the world (including state allies) hate.
So let me get this straight, you unironically think that America is an illegitimate terrorist state and you're openly working against American interests, and you expect Americans to support you? How dumb do you have to be to think that Americans in America would cheer on for idiots that think their country is evil, illegitimate, and should be destroyed? Not only are these claims false, but you're not really driving home that your ideology is not the result of foreign adversaries.
But to call that being “nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries” is ignorant of the very real and growing discontent with the US’s own borders.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. When you cheer on for America's adversaries, when you interests are openly against the country, when you conveniently align with foreign adversaries on most things, when you employ tactics like revisionism, propaganda, and double standards to demonize the US but justify, excuse, and downplay America's adversaries doing questionable shit... then your movement is probably a foreign assest.
A lot of US citizens hate the US governments and how they work, and to blame that on foreign adversaries will ultimately prevent them from being solved and prevent their numbers growing
There are real problems within the country that need to be addressed, however, you're not an alternative or a part of the solution. The far left is a part of the problem. There will never be a day in this country where you will see power, and hopefully the same exact thing is true for the far right. Extremists belong in secluded online echo chambers, not in positions of power.
The organization is full of full blown vile Marxists who to “abolish capitalism” and establish socialism
Holy shit, the democratic socialists of america are socialists
Choose love, not hate:
"You can't talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can't talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You're really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism. There must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism."
Yeah, there's pretty big damn difference between MLK fighting for equality during segregation in 1964 and the DSA simping for dictators and helping fascist MAGA win.
Also for the record, NONE of the Scandinavian countries are democratic socialist. Every single one is a capitalist liberal democracy. This idea that any of the Scandinavian countries are anywhere near socialist is misinformation spread by Bernie during his campaigns. The Danish PM at the time even had to address this publicly:
Speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, Danish PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen told students that he had “absolutely no wish to interfere the presidential debate in the US” but nonetheless attempted to set the record straight about his country.
"I know that some people in the US associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism. Therefore I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy,” Rasmussen said.
Source: https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist
Man I was with you until you suggested abolishing capitalism was a bad thing. Why is that a bad thing?
This person has swallowed so much red scare nonsense it’s impossible to actually engage with them on this topic.
Let me ask you this, why can't we regulate capitalism to work for us? Just think of what we can do:
- Greatly expand and enforce strong environmental regulations
- Expand and enforce anti trust laws to break monopolies
- Improve working conditions
- Remove money from politics
- Ban lobbying
- Increase the minimum wage to something livable and tie it to inflation
- Improve the justice system to hold CEOs and other big executives accountable for any crimes they commit and punish them accordingly
- Tie worker wages to CEO salaries or company revenue
- Fix all the tax loopholes and have corporations and billionaires pay their fair share
- Improve the social safety net so people can have their basic needs met
- Expand regulations to protect consumers
- Expand regulations for price gouging and enforce them
- Update our outdated zoning laws to allow for the building of more houses
- Remove the shitty regulations that prevent public transport from being built
- Ban any attempts to equate corporations with people
- Implement ranked choice voting and get rid of first past the vote
- Change the way we measure the health of the economy from GDP and stock market trends to things like median income, life expectancy, levels of happiness, mental and physical health, childhood success rate, rates of substance abuse, crime rates, social mobility, and so on
- Incentivize companies and people that do more to help their communities and punish those that actively harm them
These are not radical ideas and they're not new, these are all already in place in capitalist societies all around the world. We know they work and we know capitalism works, so why not make it better? Capitalism doesn't have to be this dystopian reality where corporations own everything and everybody else lives in poverty struggling to make ends meet. It could also be this great system that is centered around humanity and works to the benefit of the people. A system where the value of a person matters more than a dollar amount. These ideas aren't antithetical to capitalism. Capitalism is just tool, it's a flexible one too, there's nothing stopping us from shaping it to serve us and our values. Why not pursue that instead of trying to pursue some an ideology that has literally failed? After so many attempts, so many failures, so many people killed, when is it time to move on? Marxist socialism isn't the way forward, it's a way of the past.
That sure is a lot of claims without one single source for any of them.
Everything I said can be found either on their own website or their wiki page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America
None of the things you mentioned are why they withdrew the endorsement of AOC. Your entire comment is strawmen of why you don't like them. They compromised with AOC on all the points you stated above... and then AOC went on to support literal Genocide and Apartheid.
I’m glad AOC went from being a fringe extremist politician to becoming more pragmatic and moderate.
Yeah supporting Genocide to advance in politics like a real "pragmatic moderate" liberal. Imagine praising this level of snakery.
This is such a disingenuous argument.
A socialist endorsing the only candidate capable of defeating a fascist in November is not "endorsing genocide" just because the candid she endorsed in weak on Israel.
If there was another candidate she could endorse that both had a chance of beating Trump and was sufficiently anti-Israel, I too would be critical of her choice to endorse Biden, but he is literally the only acceptable option she has available.
Trump has promised to provide more support to Israel with fewer restrictions on how they can use the weapons we give them, so if you're earnestly trying to minimize damage to the Palestinian people, your primary goal has to be to keep Trump out of the White House.
If you care more about getting the perfect progressive candidate, and are willing to go scorched earth over it and let Trump win just to send a message, you can drop the act about caring about progressive things, because Israel will completely flatten Gaza without opposition, and we're probably going to start genociding homeless and queer people here at home too.
So remember that, after the election is over, we will remember who voted for and against Fascism, and l "not voting for Trump" isn't going to be enough to protect you.
I'm an AOC supporter, here's the thing: She demonstrates a separation of Jewish people and Israel government. I support that. In addition, I noticed that Israelis can't seem to tell attacks on Israel from uninvolved people is more directed at government. I always knew attacks on US were directed at government in Bush era.
I'm pointing out why the DSA is a shitty organization and movement, them turning on AOC is merely another example.
Also, you're not principled, and neither are they. They unironically support genocide against Israel and against Ukraine, they're just picking and choosing which genocides to support. Not to mention, that AOC has the most reasonable stance on the war imaginable. She condemns the actions of the Israeli government, she condemns the actions of the Palestinian groups, and she wants them to work towards of a ceasefire and a hostage release for the benefit of the people.
You can go live in your delusional world where Trump is elected and is giving the Netanyahu his full support for Israel to fully annex the West Bank and Gaza, but hey at least you stuck it to the Democrats and stood by your anti-pragmatic politics. As for the rest of us? We're still grounded in reality where Trump is still the biggest threat to our democracy.
AOC's national endorsement was (and still is) preventing DSA from working on solidarity with Palestinian liberation organizations across the country. I get that to a lot of people, AOC is the ideal reformist Democrat, but that's really just a condemnation of how bad even the 'good' Democrats are.
From DSA's statement on the issue:
"However, members have raised their concerns regarding a number of her votes, including a vote in favor of H.Res.888, conflating opposition to Israel’s “right to exist” with antisemitism. AOC also co-signed a press release on April 20, 2024, that “support[s] strengthening the Iron Dome and other defense systems”
Finally, AOC recently hosted a public panel with leaders from the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, lobbyists for the IHRA definition of antisemitism. On this panel, anti-Zionism and antisemitism were conflated and boycotting Zionist institutions was condemned. This sponsorship is a deep betrayal to all those who’ve risked their welfare to fight Israeli apartheid and genocide through political and direct action in recent months, and in decades past."
Of course that behavior got her unendorsed. It's fine if you, random Lemmy users, like her, but I'm glad that explicit workers-owning-the-means-of-production socialists are holding their endorsed electeds accountable. That shit shouldn't fly.
I suspect she's going to get reelected in spite of losing their endorsement
She already won three weeks ago before they dropped her so it's going to be a while until the next one.
She's still a great asset for progressives. I'm genuinely surprised that she's being criticized for not supporting Palestine enough, simply because I expected the exact opposite.
Still. Hold her accountable. Hold everyone accountable until we get direct voting.
She's an incumbent in a heavily gerrymandered safe seat. Very little was going to pry her out shy of the kind of primary upset she used to take the seat in the first place.
But even as the ostensibly far-left flank of the party, she's constantly pulling her punches in order to avoid getting censored and reprimanded within the Democrat's caucus. Its not inconceivable that she could be thrown out, the same way George Santos was, if enough of her colleagues decide being Pro-Palestinian rises to the level of an expulsion-worthy ethics violation.
You can argue the DSA is unreasonable. And you can argue that Congress is so swarmed with AIPAC loyalists that not being censored is cause for alarm. But however you slice it, she's putting her career ahead of any kind of personal conviction.
I don't understand the DSA's purpose if it is just to funnel people into the Dem party. Their views will never line up with the corporate party.
They're there to undermine progressives by pretending to be them. It's a way of taking over and deflecting the movement.
An example would be when Shontel Brown beat Nina Turner in Ohio. Brown took money from Republican donors and corporations, yet she got endorsed by "progressive" groups to help her against Turner, who is an actual grass-roots funded progressive.
Same with Mondaire Jones backstabbing Jamaal Bowman (who had defended Jones in the past when he was under attack by the establishment).
This is how Democrats try to co-opt what they can't control, and why it's critically important that voters make it a habit to monitor their candidates funding. The money will always tell the true story.
(Opensecrets.org is a great resource for tracking what groups politicians get their money from)
This is the contradiction of capitalist reformation. While we organize, it’s purpose is to assert socialist interests into mainstream politics, while gauging support for socialist ideas.
This is a good example of why I left DSA. They are averse to pragmatism. They see the world in purely theoretical terms. They form their policies according to some hypothetical ideal, instead of reality.
For some Genocide and Apartheid is a red line.
If you believe that is a radical statement for the left it might be time to reconsider the definition of left.
For some, it’s a red line letting full-strength Hitler style genocidal authoritarian fascism take over the most powerful country in the world, and resisting it is a better idea than pointless gestures of token resistance to somewhat more minor world power misbehavior, which ultimately benefit literally nobody at all
But everybody’s different
I don't think an organization as small and relatively insignificant as DSA has the luxury of being so idealistic. What strategic benefit comes from alienating your minimally influential organization from one of its most high profile political supporters? By all means, draw a red line, but you might find that you're pretty lonely behind it.
Look I truly hate that this is the situation we are in, but, If you want to have an absolutist point of view about Israel then your carbon footprint better be negative. Like home steader, grow your own food, no kids, no car, hunt for meat, no online shopping, etc.
Because if not, youre indirectly but actively contributing to the suffering of millions of innocent and exploited people in underdeveloped nations. Not to mention millions of animals and plants.
Innocent people will suffer famine, drought, and natural disasters. They will die by the hundreds of thousands in the coming decades. These victims will be people who did not participate in the modern consumerist economy by buying products from companies who actively deceive the public, practice regulatory capture, as well as bribing and corruption scandals all in the name of short term shareholder gains.
It's Absolutely hypocritical to condemn people who want to prevent a second trump term and thus recognize a need to vote for an imperfect Biden when there's no way you meet the threshold required to have clean hands in regards to the climate crisis.
The gut instinct is to say "well what can I possibly do about climate change" and that's exactly my point. All you can do is limit the impact.
You can't reconcile excusing yourself from your part in climate change, however minor it may be, if you're trying to uphold such a strict standard against Biden and Biden voters. why? because you already know the consequences if Biden fails to retain the presidency. You know what trump victory means for minorities, lgbtq, the climate, etc. and with project 2025 it likely will be way worse this time.
You don't get to look back and say you weren't at fault if Trump wins because your ballot didn't say trump. You know a vote for 3rd party or a no vote is a vote for Trump in the current system. That makes you complicit if he wins. Believe me, I went through that in 2016. I regret it.
This is an extreme metaphor to help you see that sometimes you have to acknowledge that terrible things are happening but limiting the damage might be all you can do.
You can vote for Biden in November and still criticize him and Democrats the entire time. That's not being a hypocrite.
Letting trump win and pretending you didn't contribute to all the additional damage that follows is.
There are plenty of political organizations for whom pragmatism* is their core political philosophy. Its not at all part of the philosophy of DSA. There is plenty of space for both. If you want an organization that is focused on pragmatism, there are plenty to align with. Specifically, organizations like DSA are explicitly idealistic, and the principals of socialism are also explicitly idealistic, which is effectively in opposition to pragmatism. If you are a pragmatist or one that espouses pragmatism in political philosophy, the fuck were you doing with the DSA? Its an intentionally and explicitly idealistic organization.
*I assume you know that pragmatism is a political philosophy and identity of its own.
Pragmatism isn't only an ideology, it's also a methodology or an approach to problem solving. In that regard, a pragmatic approach can be taken in furtherance of an ideological goal that is not necessarily capital 'P' Pragmatism.
I agree that DSA is an idealistic and not a pragmatic or practical organization, which is part of why I left. I didn't feel that they really wanted to transform America into Democratic Socialist society, and instead they were content to virtue signal and bicker between themselves about theory.
Letting good be the enemy of great.
Yeah bruh, I’m a pragmatist. Israel sucks, but even more Palestinians will die unless we keep trump and the republican traitor filth out of office.
How will this allow trump and Republican party filth into office?
DSA: "hey, Biden sucks because he lets genocide happen"
Rational person: "well, I don't like genocide... who's the alternative?"
Dem party: ...... Biden is our candidate ....
Rep party: Trump Trump Trump!!!!
What they don't tell you is that most American Jews on the super religious part of the spectrum love trump because he explicitly endorses Israel as well, and Bibi is the same friend of right wing extremists/dictators that Trump is.
Personally, I'm not pro Palestine. I'm anti Hamas AND anti Bibi... Just Pro peace and both govts don't want that for different reasons.
Oh no the literal tankies are against her what will she do? These people are not Democratic socialists, they're not even leftists. These people suck the dick of totalitarianism.
What does tankie mean to you in this context? Actually curious, because I don't get it.. it's starting to become like "woke" in my mind.
ok, so people who pretend like the Russians and/or Chinese being communists and justifying their fascistic imperialist actions, while going on about American imperialism as the literal sole antagonist of the universe are by definition tankies.
and the DCA are tankies, you can find it in a lot of their publications if you read them, for example, the basis for supporting the free Palestine students movement isn't to support the Palestinian people in the creation of their own state, as a principle right of any group of peoples, but rather because they believe it would hemm in American imperialist power in the Middle East
Not OP but I think the groupthink here is just using tankie as a catch all whereas their main gripe is accelerationism.
Accelerationism is the new Nihilism for the disenfranchised. It doesn't take much to grasp and requires little to no input from its supporters in this phase.
Accelerationism is not the answer. I am old enough to see what the traditional tactics have bought us. That doesn't mean I am willing to watch the world burn so the soil is enriched.
They’re not all “tankies:”
In 1956, a "Tankie" was someone who endorsed the Stalin's tanks driving through Hungary to suppress a counter-revolution.
In 1989, a "Tankie" was someone who endorsed the Deng Xiaoping's tanks driving through Tienanmen Square to suppress a student riot.
In 2024, a "Tankie" is someone who thinks Netanyahu's tanks driving through Gaza to suppress the Al Aqsa Flood has gone too far.
Typical neoliberal. Still using homophobic insults. But surely you’re not a bad person.
That's not a homophobic insult. It's a more vulgar way of saying they're in bed with them, which also isn't homophobic. It just means they're very close.
Maybe take the time to read the DSA statement on this endorsement before reading this comment chain and forming opinions.
In the last several months, thousands of DSA members provided input about the prospect of a national endorsement through town halls, meetings, and engaging in their chapters’ discussions, and AOC was invited to speak at a member forum. Many members have supported national endorsement while at the same time demanding that AOC demonstrate a higher level of commitment to Palestinian liberation, self-determination, and the immediate end to the heinous genocide in Gaza committed by Israel that aligns with DSA’s positions and expectations of socialists in office.
Maybe take the time to read
Yes. This wasn’t a knee jerk snap decision. It happened after much discussion and deliberation. And the NY chapter, the most prominent, continues to endorse her.
Good. No compromise on genocide. Never again means never again.
This gives me some hope for the DSA.
And don’t come at me with “pragmatism”. The pragmatists supported the Nazis.
Never again means never again.
That's a good way to describe how the DSA views political power.
Never again means never again.
Apparently, to purists like you, "Never again" means "If it happens anywhere, we should help it happen everywhere we can." But hey, who cares about minorities in the US, and Ukrainians in Ukraine? Fuck 'em, right?
What does this mean?
Typical leftist purity test infighting that makes the rights job easier.
Not at all. There are at least 10 caucuses in the DSA. This decision is the compromise, ya know, democracy. The NY chapter still endorses her.
It means AOC is an establishment liberal not a leftie.
The system will always co-opt individuals seeking to dismantle it. This is why reform is nearly impossible.
Edit: Thought experiment; think about what your price would be.
Lol. Lmao.
When did foreign policy become a core position for DSA?
Doesn’t all foreign policy start domestically?
I wonder if some of them maybe hang out on social media where certain very vocal people they’ve never met tend to create a general picture of an overall narrative and what priorities seem important and what politicians are disappointing when seen in the light of that narrative
So she loses endorsement by some insignificant group, am I reading this right?
Depends on what you call insignificant. Losing tens of thousands of voters doesn't seem to matter to Democrats so sure.
Democrats are projected to beat Trump by a landslide right?
Remember, guys, "left" wing in the US is further right than far right in Europe.
I've decided I'm not re-joining the DSA.
Maybe you’d like the Party for Socialism and Liberation.
Really? She's not supportive enough of Palestine? I'm definitely out of the loop, but I kind of assumed this to be the opposite.
She is a massive disappointment.
The bar is lower than ever for progressives and she still failed.
Maybe not the best decision in the world.
HOWEVER:
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Many DSA folks (at least in my local branch) are not happy with many of national's decisions lately.
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Fuck you if you're looking down your nose at the DSA while the extent of your political involvement is only just voting every once in a while.
This was a tactical misstep, sure. But my local DSA is still out there showing up for protests and strikes and unions. They're getting bills passed in through the city council and getting open socialists elected. If the DSA is the only leftist group near you and you let this blunder stop you from doing any real activism, you're guilty of the exact same purity testing bullshit.
100 percent this. My local DSA chapter is often the only group showing up to school board meetings to pressure a vote that would protect LGBTQ+ kids from discriminatory and harmful legislation. We do mutual aid regularly to serve our homeless community. We organize rallies in support of unions, Palestinian liberation, healthcare access, etc. We network with other local non profits and engage in events that directly benefit the community like creating care packages for women (and girls) seeking abortion access. We have working groups for environmental restoration work. The list goes on.
We have other political action groups in the area for both major parties. Wanna guess how involved they are with the most marginalized and underserved communities in the area?
People need to log off social media once in awhile and actually work in their community before posting empty platitudes to an echo chamber.
Thank you for your service.
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Being a socialist is not necessarily progressive. What a distraction
It's all religious Zealots behind the scenes in politics. They all think the issue is protecting cites mentioned in the bible. They think that's the basis for Western Civilization rather than the French and American revolutions and the Dutch or Westminster system of law.
Why haven't most Western nations had atheist leaders? Why don't they ALWAYS have atheist leaders?
This preference for superstition over rationality holds us back as a species.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
The Democratic Socialists of America pulled its endorsement of Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York this week, accusing the progressive congresswoman of being insufficiently supportive of the Palestinian cause and efforts to end the war in Gaza.
When she rallied last month in the Bronx with Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Jamaal Bowman, dozens of pro-Palestinian demonstrators angry over her endorsement of Mr. Biden chanted “You’re a fraud, A.O.C.”
The congresswoman retains the support of the socialist group’s chapter in New York City, where she is expected to easily win a fourth term this fall in a heavily Democratic district.
In its statement, the committee wrote that the congresswoman had taken “many courageous positions on Palestine.” But it said it had voted in June to renew its endorsement only on the condition that she “demonstrate a higher level of commitment to Palestinian liberation, self-determination and the immediate end to the heinous genocide in Gaza.”
That, Democratic Socialists said, “conflated anti-Zionism with antisemitism and condemned boycotting Zionist institutions.” The group also objected to her appearing alongside Amy Spitalnick, the leader of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs.
“This sponsorship is a deep betrayal to all those who’ve risked their welfare to fight Israeli apartheid and genocide through political and direct action in recent months, and in decades past,” the socialists’ leaders wrote.
The original article contains 785 words, the summary contains 221 words. Saved 72%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Classic linkerbaan L post
Then downvote and ignore, or better yet, post your own worldview.
United States of Israel.
The Nazis I'm worried about aren't the troglodytes carrying Swastika flags to epically piss off the freaking libs. It's the ones in non-descript clothing chanting "from the river to the sea" and getting angry at AOC for not hating Jews enough that seem far more of a concern.
Idk why this is getting downvoted. Some things that these protesters say/do are vile and reprehensible. I have seen them call for that as well as intifada, which is disgusting.
Intifada? If I didn’t know what that means I’d be very upset. 😠
This just makes me like AOC even more