Hi Lemmy,
My HOA sent out a email saying dogs are no longer allowed on any grass in common areas or front yards including grass between sidewalk and curb which is.... everywhere except our own tiny backyards. The reasoning is some dog urine effected dead spots. Honestly I didn't even notice them, it's 95° here and all the grass looks sad.
It's a walking town and we are not a gated community, non-residents walk their dogs here all the time, so this rule can only punish those who live here and has no ability to effect others.
Anyway, this seems like a 'we have tried nothing and we are all out of ideas!' moment so I wanted to see if anyone here had any suggestions I can pass on to maintain a "good" curb appeal ground cover-wise while allowing dogs to do normal dog stuff.
I can converse with the HOA board in good faith, but this rule is basically banning dogs from the neighborhood - which I super did not sign up for.
Pertainent info: PA, USA - Town Home style homes - small central common grass - owned for 8y.
Edit: it seems like people may have glossed over the question part and skipped straight to HOA bashing (which is warranted at times!) so I will rephrase:
What ground covering or neighborhood solutions to similar (perceived) issues have other communities employed?
Check to make sure that the HOA actually has the power to do this. As a land owner you are bound to follow the covenants that run with the land, but you are only actually bound to follow those covenants. You don't have to do random stuff just because the HOA board or even a majority of the HOA voters say so, you only actually have to do what's in the covenants.
Unless the covenants say that you agree to follow a bunch of dog-related rules to be defined later, you almost certainly are allowed to park your dog in your own front yard or in that of any consenting neighbor.
The HOA can pass an amendment or addendum to the covenants at any point, which then instantly enacts the rule and gives them the power to fine you and put a lien on your property if you don’t pay…with the caveat that I’m speaking about in the USA. Do other countries have HOA’s? You could go to a meeting or take them to court of course.
Most other countries do not have HOAs. In Finland where I live, municipalities can enact ordinances to limit what you can do on your property, but they are often very limited if they exist at all.
The most restrictive ones that I know limit the type of house that can be built (eg. no flat roofs, although this can be a zoning issue as well), the color of the houses and other similar limitations.
I'll take my socialdemocrat "hell hole" of a country over the "free" USA with HOAs any time.
Find out when the next meeting is. Tell them you're going to attend.
Organize all the other dog owners and all of you attend. Explain why the new rule is a burden on you all. Explain what you want. Listen to their reasoning. Come to an agreeable compromise.
A complicating factor: I would say ~50% of the houses are rented and only the homeowners have a say in HOA matters. So, assuming any owners without dogs (including the whole board) and any landlord would logically vote to ban all use of the grass, while all dog-owning homeowners would vote to allow dogs near the grass.
Obviously that's generalizing what the votes would be - even though the majority of the houses have dogs, I would say the minority are homeowners with dogs.
The reason I bring this up is a petition-style response may be dismissed as "well those dog owners have no say as they are not homeowners"
I actually don't know if a landlord has to do anything to keep a renter happy these days? Or if there is enough demand that they would not care? Not sure, perhaps I am approaching that question pessimistically.
Most landlords would be more than happy if their renters dog died... You tried to get a lease with a dog lately? Unless you have something like a teacup poodle a vast majority of landlords don't want to lease to you.
In a vacuum, yes. But what if some of them have been there for a few years and are paying below-market rent? Or are generally dicks but not egregious enough to go to the trouble of evicting?
Get on the board and take that shit down from the inside, only reliable way to destroy those parasites.
I live in an area where most houses predate HOAs and home values are too statically low for anyone to want one, but if I were in a position where an HOA started passing nonsensical rules like that I would 100% be reading every rules document and figuring out how to get in charge in order to dismantle every single rule until the only thing the HOA does is pay for necessary/agreed upon shared services
Local governments love HOAs and they are only giving construction permits to HOA communities. Why they love it? Easy, they onload the government duties of maintaining infrastructure on the HOAs, who charge a "tax" that doesn't risks the political career of the elected officials.
I'm pretty sure it's a case of gradually increased powers, afaik basically everywhere has HOAs, the difference is just that outside of america they basically just maintain common infrastructure like roads and utilities and the only things they can really enforce is when you're actually being a prick towards your neighbours, e.g. bright pink house or excessive blinking lights.
All you can do is talk to the hoa board. That is it. If they won't listen then you have no options. Other then pointing out this wont solve the problem and only punish members. Good luck.
Well assuming such a position is open
Some hoa I know were set up that the head is 20 year position. One hoa had it so 1 guy had complete veto power and the way to get rid of him was to wait for every plot of land in the hoa to sell. This was out in west Texas and 10 years ago. They have not sold all of them and he is still in charge.
I've read some folks being a bottle of water on walks to dilute the pee so it's less likely to ruin grass. But in fairness if some dog pee is ruining grass, owners are not watering their lawns enough. There are plenty of dogs in my neighborhood that are walked and I don't think there are many pee spot issues.
But even better would be to not use grass :) uses too much water in the first place hehe
As someone not from the US, your pets probably aren't fed horrible food options multiple times throughout the day. You (your fellows in general) probably got your pet knowing it wasn't an ornament. And you probably don't have grass that is so heavily genetically modified that it can't filter the poison most of these animals piddle out. Yes, we get burn spots in lawns. Yes also, most of us are slowly killing our pets. Who has time to train an animal? Who has time to feed them a diet that is remotely in tune with their biology?
Is this legal? My understanding is that the strip of grass between the sidewalk and street is "semi-private", in that the homeowner has to maintain it, but that the city actually owns it.
I'd check local laws and see if the HOA has any right to restrict dogs there.
Is it not possible to just not sign that contract? All contracts can be changed and if part of selling the house is that you are not beholden to the HOA, why is it forced on you?
Why does the HOA have any authority in the sale of a house? The contract is between the buyer, seller, and their financial institutions. Anyone else is unnecessary.
In an additional effort to refocus this thread to ground cover, has anyone here in the northeast US gone with a clover ground cover, rather than grass?
Clover would be a good option, it's more resistant to burning from dog urine than most grasses. It wasn't that long ago since clover was included with standard lawn seed mixes.
You have been living there for 8 yrs. Is this the first time the board has been unreasonable? If not, you might not have much recourse. Except for becoming president of the HOA and changing by-laws yourself. Unfortunately, HOAs in America are fucking weird she mostly unregulated which leads to these power tripping people.
If so, I would converse with them and present the same arguments you posted here.
In both cases, it would help if you can get your neighbors on the same page and agree. If more than half of the neighbors come to the consensus that it’s unreasonable, could easily force the board’s hand and revert. If they don’t bend, I would then ask your neighbors to re-elect the board. If at this point, you would need to check your HOA by-laws since it wildly differs across the USA.
Honestly, review you HOA requirements for imposing new rules, make sure they followed the rules and if they didn't demand the rule be withdrawn until the proper process is followed.
The HOA is taking the 'our responsibility is to keep a consistent curb-appeal' stance so I think seemingly random houses not having grass at all may not be acceptable - though maybe that's appropriate for the strip between the sidewalk and road.
Try to get the rule changed so it reads "no UNLEASHED dogs allowed on.... " And try to get them to add some kind of punishment for those who don't clean up after their dogs (i.e. a $50 fine or something like that). Sure people can bash HOAs (and I totally agree with why they are hated so much), but the rule was probably not enacted because of one incident. It was probably put into place after many issues with owners not cleaning up after their dogs, so they felt they had to do something.
As with all HOA issues, the solution is to be in on it.... be part of the HOA. Run for office and get on the board. Being part of the process makes it that much easier to control what rules get put up.
We don't have issues with unleashed dogs, or even with people not cleaning up dog crap, it's just too much dog pee causes dead grass.
So it's not directed at members for the states of their lawns (they are maintained by a common landscape company) it's directed at people who have dogs who urinate - which is all of them.
It seems like all the retired people in the neighborhood have a excellent reason to be on the board but with a full time job and a kid I just don't have the time to put towards good faith governance of the neighborhood. Maybe that's the idea though - to get on the board and reduce their scope to paying the lawn care guys and collecting dues to pay the lawn care guys.
I know this is more of a petty answer, but if the head of your HOA lives in the HOA and you know where, have your dog deliberately shit in their yard if there are no security cameras. Early in the morning, be sure to take pictures as proof there was a dog in their grass at some point.
If enough people in the area start doing it, the rule will either change or you can start complaining like Hell that the head is of HOA isn't following the rules and hope that changes things. If not, and you are willing to be locked away, arson on the HOA owners' home (if they live in the HOA) isn't a bad option either, assuming you start the fire in their bedroom so they can burn to death.
something like this seems doable in theory but without describing the community let's just say there is no spot to put this or any other 'dedicated dog spot', other than existing house's lawns or the one 40'x40' area which is the community green - and that totally is not going to happen.
Not ground covering, but new ground. If you want a say, then you have to take on personal responsibility. Or move. Either way, you choose to not look behind the curtain. Enjoy Stepford.
HOAs often impose yard upkeep rules on owners. I have a buddy whose front yard grass keeps dying from dog walkers letting their dogs pee in his yard, and then as an insult to injury, the HOA cites him.
It'd be ideal if your neighborhood had a dog park established as an alternative, but honestly, this rule is on the more agreeable side as far as HOAs go.
I'm of the opinion that more often than not, dog owners suck for everyone around them. They typically suck so much, that dog owners don't often even like other dog owners. But the problem is that the individual dog owner can't see that they themselves probably suck.
So, I personally find strict rules about their impact on a neighborhood agreeable.
The ideal solution is that HOAs be abolished op lives in a community where 50% of the residents are held to a collective standard they have no say in that's enforced by those who's qualifications are they've nothing better to do with their time. The idea that HOAs increase property value is a scam.
For once I agree with an HOA decision. I wish I could just enjoy my yard without having to worry about some asshole letting his mutt shit all over my yard.