Yeah, let's stop with this "don't judge people for their poiltics" bullshit
Yeah, let's stop with this "don't judge people for their poiltics" bullshit
People seem to be forgetting the mod reminder, and I'm tired of deleting posts and banning people and I do not want to lock the thread, so here is a reminder of the reminder.
Edit: Well, this is what happens when people can't play nice. I'm locking this thread and taking out the trash.
history won't do shit if it's controlled by tech billionaires until they destroy the planet.
You have the freedom to decide, you do not have the freedom from the consequences on your decisions.
The most successful tactic of the right has been judging the left for their politics - "woke" etc. This works because it's "othering" - makes the left part of the out group that people don't want to be a part of. The left needs to be similarly unabashed, even though othering is kind of against the whole point of being on the left.
But it needs to be more fun and less serious than this post. Why is there no "screaming maga" meme? Surely there's plenty of those images, and more.
Putting aside whether or not that's anathema to the cause, I'm not sure how you'd "other" them in a meaningful way. The reason it works for the right is that they target groups who's members are publicly visible and can't voluntarily leave (LGBT+, minorities, foreign religions, etc...)
If you target a group of people for their beliefs (something not overtly visible), they can either relabel their group or plausibly claim their beliefs differ in some way. We already do this for fascists and nazis, but very few people are going to outwardly admit to these ideals. Now they'll just say they're "extra-constitutional", "alt right", "Christian patriot", or any other hat a bigot wants to swap out for far right authoritarian.
You can't "other" them where they already proudly claim a majority (white + Christian) so what are you left with?
I see three main types of people that voted for trump, the easily duped, racists and the rich that don't care how they get their money. If someone tells me they voted for this guy I loose all respect for them. I'm sure that there's some one issue voters out there but I would lump them into the first category. I have even less respect for someone that doesn't like trump but did not vote.
I'm at a loss of what to even do. I would like to see the dnc grow a pair of balls and take on these monsters. I would like to see the dnc organize a national boycott on any company even closely tied to musk and trump. The protests are fine to show solidarity but the people in charge will not see it. Hitting the companies in the wallet that are helping musk and trump destroy our country would be a good cause IMHO.
There's also the "vote to hurt people I don't like" group:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/8/18173678/trump-shutdown-voter-florida
I knew one of those types. The first Trump campaign he straight up said he wanted to see the US destroyed and that's why he was voting. He used to be a run-of-the-mill liberal dude but got caught up in stupid 4 Chan and shit and became a huge mysogynist and racist. It was sick watching him turn and become emboldened over the years.
I've lived all around this country and I think the biggest bucket that you exclude is "people who grew up their whole lives in Republican communities that also don't care about politics nearly as much as chronic Internet users". these people go to the booths and go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ before voting for whoever's campaign banner they saw around town more or whoever they heard a relative mention. these people are everywhere. they aren't even bad people or misinformed dummies, per say, just willingly uninformed. for a large swath of Americans, being Republican is just the default unfortunately.
There's a tiny part of me that's willing to allow that the people voting for him in 2016 just wanted to make their protests heard. Even though he was very, very clear who he is and what he stands for, people were struggling and made themselves heard in the shittiest possible way.
But the people who voted him in again, knowing exactly how it's going to shake out could all drop dead at once and I wouldn't shed a tear. Fuck every one of those cunts.
I'm going to continue judging them for the party they belong to because its a valid proxy for all the other stuff.
it's really not about blaming voters anymore. that ship sailed. i had been calling for a conservative purge for the last 10 years but nobody listened to me. i don't know if we can stop what's coming now.
America is waking up to the reality, as Germany once did, that 1/3 of their population wants to kill another 1/3 while the other 1/3 watches and stands by.
The tools that were used to drive Germany to madness are much the same we're seeing today. A lot of that first 1/3 is being bombarded with mass media saying "Black people are trying to kill you! Leftists are trying to rob you! The Evil Biden Government is trying to transgender your children!" over and over and over for decades on end.
This isn't just Americans waking up one morning and deciding to be MAGA chuds. It is a product of two generations of intense right-wing propaganda through every avenue of mass media.
That's the one thing that gives me hope: their views changed radically but only in one generation through concentrated, directed effort. Calling people idiots or sheep misses the point that this is the natural result of exposing people to this shit daily.
Nobody in history ever thought people are inherently rational and considerate, society is held together through a culture that reinforces it. The tools of the information age can rapidly and drastically shape our society however we want it, we just need to pull them out of the hands of those billionaires burning civilisation to the ground for their own benefit.
Your message is true, but your stats are off. Trump only got something like 15% of the total voting population in the US and won by like 1.5% of the vote. Studies say that historically, 60% of Americans are more liberal than the government - and that includes when Democrats have been in power.
Conservatives are a minority, and the MAGA crazies even more so. They just shout really loudly to convince everybody that they're a majority. The real issue is that 50% or so of Americans simply don't care enough to vote against fascism or care more about maintaining the facade of order than freedom. Like MLK said, the biggest threat to equal rights isn't the white supremacist, but the white liberal who cares more about a negative peace than true justice.
Your numbers don't seem right to me. He got ~45% of registered voters and ~28% of adults. Where's your 15% from?
Hot take:
The problem isn't the other middle class people who've been convinced to wear a different color hat.
The problem is the oligarchs who've been plotting to take over and destroy the power of the people by dismantling the government. The people who are actively doing that exact thing while the ignorant masses engage in tribalism and attacking people for voting.
Engaging on this topic is just furthering the distraction tactics. The people who're actively working to destroy the government or implementing policies targeting minority populations are not your neighbors or anybody that you will run into on social media.
Ok but I still partially blame the people who voted the oligarchs into power
Sure, but as a leftist who grew up in a deep red area, I can tell you that those people are, largely, uneducated and ignorant.
It is because of that ignorance that they're able to believe the lies that led them to acting the way that they did. The people who bear the majority of the responsibility and blame are the ones who know that they're taking advantage of and cultivating that ignorance.
I get to hear, in real time, the propaganda engine work on these people (which includes most of my family). I see how topics are framed, by media personalities, into palatable actions. As I'm writing this, there's a podcast playing at my job, where DOGE is being celebrated for finding 'fraud and abuse'. I know, for a fact, that the listeners don't have a high school education and have no idea how the government's payment systems work... but the radio is telling them that DOGE is doing good work.
So, how can they know any better? These are not people who're ever going to continue their education and their media literacy skills were developed in the 80s. They're simply not equipped to handle the scale of lying that exists in the modern world.
On the other hand, the person talking, has multiple degrees and has served in the federal government. That person KNOWS they're lying but continue to do so because it is profitable. I find people like that to be far more culpable. They're lying for profit (grifting, to use an over used term) and their lies reach millions of voters.
Then you have the people who benefit from the lies. Trump and Elon know that they're dealing with ignorant people, they know exactly how to use populist rhetoric at public events. While, in private, they're using the power that they've obtained to corruptly enrich themselves and their sycophants.
Direct your ire at the people who're actively profiting off of lies and corruption. Help to educate the other people around you when they're being fed lies.
Attacking your neighbor while Elon and Trump ransack the government is not only pointless, it's completely counter-productive and ensures that we'll never unify against this kind of power grab.
If you want to come to that conclusion in a political postmortem 20 years from now I'd fully encourage it.
The problem is that right now the house is burning down and shaming people for playing with matches won't save us.
Oh but you don't get it, they are NAZIS you seeeee
I mean I am sure of that even tho I haven't actually met them or talked to them or even made an effort to understand them. But yeah pretty sure
History doesnt judge people
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
The people leading the propaganda are blamed
And yet, so many people's German grandfathers refused to talk about what they did during the war. Despite the lack of judgment.
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters
Maybe if folks had been shamed into not supporting the Nazis and their hollow, superficial, hateful "solutions" we wouldn't even have an example with such obvious and clear parallels to draw upon.
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
Nobody should be (or seems to have been) fucking absolved for handing their nation to fascists, either.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/german-civilians-forced-see-real-11908228
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa1084913
https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn556026
edited to correct unclear wording
History does judge people. The nazi soldiers have caught a ton of grief, even in my lifetime. The israli soldiers currently serving are frequently compared to nazi soldiers both in meme and article form.
Yes the leaders get most (and should) of the blame. But people do remember the other people making it possible. (google the Yaroslav Hunka scandal for a example).
Ill probably be considered a fascist myself in my descendants eyes, having not run for office or started/participated in a violent revolution. (I am holding out hope I might still be able to participate at least).
I thought we stopped doing that that in 2003
History will look back at the American empire and judge all its complicit civilians equally. It's Democrat vanity that makes them think they're not in the same genocidal boat as Republicans. You may think of yourselves in another class, but your politicians were complicit in the same crimes.
The people who are getting real mad over Republican voters don't really care that Rs and Ds have the same foreign policy. The frontier of empire is coming home, but acknowledging that would mean acknowledging we export suffering.
I think this will be the dynamic that ultimately, finally, eventually-in-God-knows-how-long, bubbles over and hopefully addresses this nonsense. Enough people will slowly reach where many of us already are: just doooone. Out of patience and understanding.
If you can't understand why people voted for trump you never had patience or understanding in the first place. Calling someone a word over and over does not make you right or what you say true.
One problem is the GOP has been taken over and continually converted to MAGA; it started with calling people "RINOs," attacking each other for party purity.
"Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line."
Exactly why the vote is secret
Naw, I'll judge people based on a person to person basis and not just use generalized lazy ass blanket judgement on anyone whom isnt in my social/political/religious group. Stop adding to the problem.
Sure, but Trump voters aren't a lazy generalization.
"I want X bad thing to happen"
"Hey, this guy wants X to happen. That's bad."
"STOP GENERALIZING!!1!"
I'd agree that your reasoning makes sense but is reductionist when talking about America's two party system.
I grew up in a conservative town and I personally knew lots of people that were truly, deeply compassionate people. Christian in the truly radical, hippy sense of the word. Except they had one issue, abortion made them sad.
It wasn't any ignorance of the issue or believing in satanic baby eating, but a philosophy arbitrarily picked by their community. They didn't hate anyone getting an abortion, they just had some utopian vision of a world where they didn't happen.
Since abortions were framed as murder and one party promised to ban abortions and the other party expand access, they were told there was only one ethical choice.
So their one line of thought trapped them. I could argue up and down the ballot on issues they agreed with, how the economy should be handled, prison reform, etc... but that one stupid idea held them back.
They're still good people, and voted 3rd party a few times when the mood struck them. But I don't think wanting one bad policy (with the best intentions) makes them bad people.
So I'd say yes. In that instance, with those people, it's generalizing to say they were on board with any of the hateful policies. They were held hostage by their single issue, and the right's rhetoric made damn sure they could never wriggle out.
It gets even more basic than that.
Trump is just plain repulsive.
Stop, you dont need to dive bomb them, gal!
Don't assume someone who voted for Trump lacks morals or is racist etc.
They could just be really stupid. Did you think of that?
Consider average intelligence, consider now that half of them are dumber than that.
Not sure why you're being downvoted for being right. If the people who voted for Trump:
- Had 8 years to see exactly what Trump was like, and
- AREN'T wealthy business owners
...what other conclusions are there?
Hate
Lead Poisoning
Cruelty is their primary motivation
Im not American, so here is an outside viewpoint.
Being frustrated with cost of living going up Being ridiculed for just beng a republican voter Being frustrated with the country not putting their own tax paying citizens first
And now everyone on reddit and lemmy making it even worse Im affraid you'll lose again. Jist keep alienating a majority of your people and see how it goes.
Yes, this is true for many.
Or just disinformed
America held an election. Democracy made a choice. All those that stand against democracy will also be judged by history.
Weimar Republic held an election. Democracy made a choice. All those stand against Adolf Hitler will be judged by history
FTFY
We have strong evidence that that choice is NOT the one that was made.
its not like voting for scum like biden and harris is moral when they murder thousands of children for aipac money. trump is doing exactly what dnc does to poor non-white countries. now cry because you were happy when done to someone else.
israel has done far far worse warcrimes than russia in ukraine but still no mention or criticism of it in western media. everyone crying only now and silent during biden is also selfish racist hypocrite.
People cast their vote for a variety of complicated reasons, often against their own interests. Someone might be stupid because they voted for a bad ticket but I don't think they are necessarily immoral.
These old norms like not judging others for their politics used to function fine before social media propagated and the culture wars flared up. I'd be hesitant to throw the old norms away, even in our current circumstances, because after they go there's no guarantee you'll ever get them back.
We supported Trump because we believe that Biden's policies have had a detrimental impact on our country. Over the past four years, those of us who work hard for a living have faced significant challenges. Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many. My son, for example, would have to work far harder than I ever did just to afford rent. We voted for a better future for the working class.
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity. The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns. It’s important to reflect on how Biden's actions impact the world and the people who suffer as a result. Blaming a president who is advocating for the wellbeing of hardworking Americans misses the larger issue at hand. It’s essential to focus on the real challenges facing our nation, rather than directing blame toward individuals who are working to create a better future for the people of this country.
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I'm all in for criticizing Biden' support for Israel and I think that the Democratic Party prefers saying "vote for us, we are not the other guy" to actually addressing the glaring issues in wealth distribution, but... Trump spectacularized the erasure of trans people from official documents and the deportation of migrants, he is dismantling that little welfare the US has to eat it up with his oligarch buddies and you still think that he is somehow better? I don't know if you're a bot, a shill, or simply lack the political education needed.
We voted for a better future for the working class.
The problem is you misunderstand macroeconomics on a fundamental level if you think the policies proposed by Trump or the actions taken by Trump so far will in fact bring down prices.
I get why you hoped he was telling the truth but if you ever had taken even intro macro you would know enough to doubt what he’s saying.
If you think Trump is more moral than Biden I’d ask why you think the guy who raped people and admitted to intentionally walking in on teenaged girls changing clothes because he could was more moral because that’s just bizarre.
Since calling you what you are is not allowed:
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I cannot see how you can look at this current administration and think that this is better in any way.
Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many.
Get ready for more inflation and less food and healthcare access
The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns.
Great, prepare for Palestine to not exist at all anymore.
I understand that the Democrats are also the party of the corporate oligarch overlords and are also fucking us over, but at this point supporting Trump is just throwing the baby out with the bath water, my guy. You have bad, and extra bad, and you think extra bad is better for some reason?
If you're paying any attention, you'd be seeing you'll get nothing but precisely the opposite of what you claimed you voted for. Given Trump's history, you have no leg to stand on believing that liar.
You possess a unique perspective that many of us do not have, as it seems you are able to foresee the future. However, it’s important to acknowledge that Trump is following through on the promises he made, while Biden has not delivered in the same way. In his final actions, Biden prioritized securing the well-being of his family and ensuring their safety. In contrast, it often appears that Biden's focus has not been on the American people or their interests.
I agree that the Biden administration's policies where not good enough to address the real issues facing working people in the country. They were pulling from the same neoliberal economic playbook that both parties have used and has been shown over and over again to increase inequality instead of decreasing inequality. Biden and Democratic leadership think we are still in the world economic situation of the 1990's and refuse to believe otherwise.
However Trump on the other hand doesn't even have a plan. He was correct in saying "The Economy sucks", but had no other plan to fix the system besides "Drill Baby Drill" and "Let the Oligarchs decide how the economic system works". Harris might have been an out of touch elite, oblivious to economic reality. But Trump is pain and destruction incarnate and will only cause more pain and destruction during his tenure.
The reality is the US Empire is dying and it can either go gracefully or with pain and anger while it takes the rest of the world with it.
It's going with pain an anger, but thanks to Trump's trade wars the rest of the world is finally distancing itself from the USA enough that we might not be dragged down with you.
That's the one silver lining to all this: America's been on a clear path to fascism since GWB at the latest, but now that it's finally here it's being managed by an outright moron. Trump's stupidity will be the one thing that saves the world.
The sheer fact that your whole comment can be refuted and countered from just cursory searches and looking outside of curated news spaces means that you are either arguing in bad faith or you just choose to ignore reality. Either way your stupid decision is going to fuck over a huge number of people and that includes your son because trump has never worked a day in his life. He has bankrupt over 250 businesses, including a casino so he's a shit businessman. Your inability or unwillingness to face reality is going to be responsible for everything that trump fucks up over the next, hopefully only, 4 years.
I'm not going to argue with you because there's enough other people doing that. What I am interested though is a few statistics about yourself to compare to what you're saying.
You claim to be part of a group who " works hard for a living"
Just wondering what your line of work is and yearly income.
Have you always voted conservative? does your family vote conservative or are you the outlier?
What social media platforms do you use?.
What region of the USA do you live in? Normally blue/ red?
Thanks!
I 100% agree with your critiques, but I don't see how Trump was going to solve them. However, I'm pretty disappointed that you're at -20 at the time I'm making this comment (thanks blue maga groupthink), so I'm upvoting you to try and turn the tide. But all standards, you have a well written comment that should not be downvoted into oblivion.
This reaction is fairly common on Lemmy; when users disagree, they often downvote. However, the joke is on them, as I don't concern myself with negative votes—what truly matters to me is fostering meaningful dialogue. Ultimately, Lemmy tends to function as a collection of small echo chambers.
I was once a Democrat, but after the way Bernie Sanders was treated, I can no longer align myself with the party. I would have supported Sanders over Trump, and I believe many others would have as well.
Wow you have met them all? Incredible how some have time to deeply understand and meet a full nation worth of people.
Little reminder: Those people you are alienating, those as per your and Lemmy judgement "Nazi, racists, uneducated, homophobic, traitors, fascists, unethical, uncompassionate and misogynistic" are voters with as much rights as you have to decide the course of the nation
And guess what, YOU NEED THEM.
Not in the sense of WOW WE NEED THEIR VOTES MAYBE WE SHOULD NOT TREAT THEN LIKE SHIT kind of thing, although you actually DO need those votes.
I mean in the sense that these are the standard blue collar, hard workers of the country. Those plumbers, electricians, waste disposal, street sweepers, truck drivers, and so on
You know, the people? The workers that the Dems and libs cry daily to protect their rights?
Well those are the ones you are alienating with your message. The common man.
Dems have become the party of the coastal elites. You can't cry against the stablishment because you became the stablishment.
So, it is alrighty if you think that alienating and pushing them common people outside of your leftist bubble is working for your cause.
But remember why you lost the election. Try to understand why if "we think the others are SO BAD and shout it into the wind, why didn't we win?"
Because until you answer that question, you'll be kept surely in permanent stunlock.
So go, sure. Protest, picket and outrage against every little thing they do. Tire yourselves. Double down on the name calling.
That surely will work wonders
That's bullshit, I'm working class and the majority of my coworkers are left leaning. And guess what? If a plumber shows up to our job site with a Trump sticker, he doesn't get to work for us that day and is told why. There are plenty of people with the skills society needs that don't openly display their hatred.
They didn't need my daughter, which is why they voted for someone who would make her part of his domestic genocides. And that's why they forced us both to leave the country. So I don't need them.
Well those are the ones you are alienating with your message. The common man.
'Your policy of "don't support Nazis" is alienating the people who I relate to.'
So go, sure. Protest, picket and outrage against every little thing they do. Tire yourselves. Double down on the name calling.
Pot calling the kettle black lol.
Trump supporters are some of the most whiny, needy, and snowflake people i have ever had the misfortune to meet/hear. They are an extremely vocal minority that is going to fuck things up for everyone. And guess what? The common man ISNT a nazi. They aren't bigots, they aren't sexist, traitors or unethical. Those are the minority. And the real problem is that those people think they are allowed to express these views. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom of consequences.
Little reminder: Those people you are alienating, those as per your and Lemmy judgement “Nazi, racists, uneducated, homophobic, traitors, fascists, unethical, uncompassionate and misogynistic” are voters with as much rights as you have to decide the course of the nation
Yep. They sure do. And I'm judging them for the direction they have chosen.
How is it whenever anyone makes a post like this, it's "ZOMG don't alienate the magas." Do you suppose there are folks who care enough about unity to tell the magas maybe they shouldn't alienate all the non-magas in their lives? Do you tell magas that? I have multiple neighbors who had signs in their yard for YEARS proclaiming Biden voters or Democrats as traitors, morons, etc as they adjusted the mix of their handwritten signs every so often.
Seems to me they have spent the past several years alienating me. Seems to me they have voted for policies and politicians that are explicitly intending to harm anyone who isn't a white cisthet man. That includes quite a lot of groups that neither me nor anyone near me is a member of, but also includes groups that my children, my wife, and for that matter, a great many Trump voters themselves comprise.
And it seems to me that, just like when there was a bully in school as a kid, it's somehow the victim always asked to be the bigger person, not the bully. That was horseshit then, and it's horseshit now.
I mean in the sense that these are the standard blue collar, hard workers of the country. Those plumbers, electricians, waste disposal, street sweepers, truck drivers, and so on
Ask me about my background. (no don't, but also don't assume I've never been one of these people and can't identify with where they are coming from)
Somehow the party with the worst record towards unions and labor has convinced
allmany of the folks with union jobs that they will save them, and that they'll do so with a bsuinessman at the head of the country with a reputation for not paying his bills. And I should sympathize with that?I reject your scolding and premise at the most fundamental possible level.
These people have spent more than the past 8 years being the loudest, rudest, most hateful group in any venue. On a personal level, we have avoided family gatherings to not have to listen to their shit, though somehow we eventually end up hearing it anyway. The policies they support obviously and openly hurt anyone not like them, and a very large percentage of the time they hurt themselves also. They are currently loudly cheering as our nation and government are being actively dismantled by the man they voted for.
I have nothing left for these people but to keep anyone and anything I care about as far out of their path and notice as possible, and hope that 5 years from now we can be arguing about this and not decaying in a mass grave someplace after they work their way down the "First they came for" ladder until finally they find something my family needs to be sent to a camp for.
Yeah I always say, you should judge a person by the contents of their soul, not by how often they beat their wife.
NotAllWifeBeaters
Surely my message will be seen by the millions of Trump voters on... checks notes ...Mastadon
How do people not realize they live in an entirely separate digital space from the right.
Not just separate platforms (YouTube vs Rumble, Mastadon/Bsky vs X/Truth) but perfectly segregated by their personalized algorithms. They keep us separated by design. How many trans influencers are on truth social? Not enough for a user to view them as anything but an "other"...
This post is reaching nobody that needs to see it unless it has a sarcastic title over the screenshot
The message is for this post in general. I'd say it is reaching the intended audience
No. Liberals are not in a position to judge. Genocide is the worst possible crime. And at the very least, every Harris voter decided genocide support wasn’t a dealbreaker. So they know exactly what it is to set their morals aside to support their demagogue. They’ve lost any right to claim the moral high ground.
Now if you didn’t vote for either Harris or Trump? Judge away.
Can't win on your single issue? Then vote to make everything worse, including the issue that you use as a cudgel to disguise your authoritarian power fantasy!
As a trans person, and I mean this to my core, go fuck yourself. Gaza will be a parking lot now because of tankies like you. It's impossible to put pressure on our government to help Palestine if we're busy trying to keep our own country afloat and stop new genocides and horrors within our own borders. Shame there was no "perfect option", or whatever bullshit you're peddling.
Letting Trump win really increased the chance people are going to be placed in concentration camps.
Remind me when I am being lead to the gallows for being bi to congratulate you on your moral victory.
And if you voted for Trump, you supported the Palestinian genocide and the genocide of American minorities through the silent violence of the oppression of Project 2025 (as well as everything else in there such as the destruction of the American educational system), increasing the global power of Russia by appointing a known Russian asset to the presidency of the US (and all the other Russian assets that he was going to put into power through his cabinet), and the murder of potentially millions of Americans through another pandemic event, like Trump did during COVID.
And if you voted for neither? You were okay with either option happening. You didn't care enough about genocide to prevent other genocides from occurring as a consequence of the election.
I wonder if you'll be the first to take me up on this challenge. It's mostly been ignored so far, but one person claimed it wasn't possible for them to do because they lived in Japan, which was amusing:
If I challenged you to send an email to a prominent person- a celebrity or politician or business leader- to ask them to use their access to the media to speak on behalf of Palestine every time you decided to discuss last year's election, would you do it?
The problem is people like Andrea Junker here have gone way past the point of reasonability with their claims. So the people who are "supporting racism, ...etc" don't actually believe that they're doing that. Because one teeny step out-of-line on the left, and you're labeled right wing, and jumped on by thirsty hoards of people who would rather eat their own.
Nobody who's voting republican actually believes you when you say they are supporting these things, because we live in clown world, and they're all brainwashed into thinking that you're lying.
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought. Meanwhile, I've got a previously Trump supporter boss, who I've slowly become friends with and have shown him the problems on the right and moved him further to the left.
It can be done, but it requires not being a rabid animal about it.
They've gone to the election spouting claims immigrants are eating peoples pets, that they're going to evict them all etc. If you've paid any attention to the run up for the election and yet claim they're not voting for racist politics I really don't know what to tell you.
They're racists. Voting for the republican party because they're spouting racist claims, backing it up with nazi salutes and racist acts.
She's not being a rabid animal. She's calling it for what it is. You're not obliged to use kiddie gloves with these cunts
What they are saying is some are so stupid they don’t see the racism for what it is.
Nobody's born a nazi, and in my opinion painting millions of people with a broad brush solves nothing even if feels righteous. There's a whole spectrum of people ranging from apathetic to ignorant to hateful and inflammatory.
As funny as it is to call someone an idiot for voting based on the price of eggs, it lacks empathy for what that might mean to some people. What if all you've been eating is instant ramen with an egg to pay for a medical bill that insurance didn't cover and now you can't even afford that.
You might be more inclined to scroll past yet another "Trump says wild shit" headline but engage more with right wing Tik Tok content arguing that the system is broken because of the ((woke-ism)) and ((DEI)). Even if you don't believe it, now the social media algorithm has your weak spot and can put you in an echo chamber to exploit it...
Are there still people out there waving swastikas and chanting racist shit in red hats? Sure. But screaming at them won't change anything. If someone can be changed, you're not going to reach them now with lecturing and scolding. It's not kiddie gloves, it's taking a realistic approaches to convince real human beings
Edit: Apparently saying people aren't born Nazis is controversial in 2025. Let me frame it like this: if 30% of the population are idiotic, racist scum and tweeting about it for 8 years hasn't changed anything, why keep doing it? Why keep tweeting free content for Libs of TikTok? Why not direct that anger towards the people running the asocial media platforms? The people actively dismantling our government? Why not do it in a non-digital space? Who cares if MAGA-loving Cletus is on your side or not?
Nobody who’s voting republican actually believes you when you say they are supporting these things, because we live in clown world, and they’re all brainwashed into thinking that you’re lying.
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought. Meanwhile, I’ve got a previously Trump supporter boss, who I’ve slowly become friends with and have shown him the problems on the right and moved him further to the left.
I'm not going to chide you, but after 8 years of trying, it's only gotten worse.
I'm done. I need to focus on keeping my family safe and away from magas.
If you are having better luck changing hearts and minds, I applaud you for it. IME they aren't interested in listening to anyone but Trump.
Just because they live in a clown world doesn't mean we do.
Honestly at this point I don't know if any Trump voters are intelligent enough to understand how wrong they are and how they've enabled really shitty people to do horrible things.
Like, genuinely, is it worth even trying to be nice or have a conversation in good faith when it's basically impossible to do that even if you try. These folks are so far divorced from reality you can't have a good faith convo because they don't respect truth and won't engage in good faith themselves.
You can't really force these idiots to understand how wrong this shit is when they seemingly can't even comprehend it. Like they're just genuinely that fucking dumb.
Because one teeny step out-of-line on the left, and you’re labeled right wing
Genuinely trying to figure out what you're referencing. Are we talking "one teeny" Daniel Perry shooting? Or is this "one teeny" mega-millionaire Dave Chappelle not getting a sixth Netflix comedy special because he's become too transphobic? Or is this "my kids won't talk to me anymore because I screamed 'Pull your pants up!' at Kendrick Lamar during the Superbowl Halftime Show"?
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought.
:-/
I’ve got a previously Trump supporter boss, who I’ve slowly become friends with and have shown him the problems on the right and moved him further to the left.
Doing the yeoman's work of leftism by... checks notes... sucking up to my Trump-loving boss.
When you have a job you sometimes need to get along with your boss.
When you become as reactionary as your opponents, then you're no better than them. Thank you for not being like this.
Ever since the run up to Trumps first presidency I think you would agree that the republican party has become increasingly unhinged. And how has the democrats responded? With civility (in most cases.) And where has that got them? Your democracy is being dismantled, oversight removed, aid removed, trade wars with allies, etc. They got here by arguing in good faith, by being civil and not wanting to be labelled a reactionary.
Oh, and if you honestly believe you're no better if you're being reactionary towards fucking nazi saluting cunts, then fuck you. From the bottom of my heart, get absolutely fucked
If you are a liberal don't care about your opinion.
Go back to X
I kinda think you do.
Thanks for letting us know this vital information.
What part of liberalism do you disagree with?
Are you anti-capitalist?
Do you think all citizens should not have equal rights under the law?
Do you think government should have a more intrusive role in private life or business?
Do you oppose what the founding fathers of America created?
Are you just confusing Liberalism, which is an ideology, with progressivism (the actual opposite of conservative?)
Well, I'm not a liberal but I agree with that post
What part of liberalism do you disagree with?
Are you anti-capitalist?
Do you think all citizens should not have equal rights under the law?
Do you think government should have a more intrusive role in private life or business?
Do you oppose what the founding fathers of America created?
Are you just confusing Liberalism, which is an ideology, with progressivism (the actual opposite of conservative?)
Either your username is meta, or you need the Billy Goats Gruff to bring some clarity to your life under the bridge.
Which is why nobody cares about GOP opinions and why most of the world thinks you are retarded. Like it or not, you live with people different from you, and you need to learn to play nice and compromise. I'm not saying to give up your morals completely, but meet in the middle and come up with something that works for both of you.
Might want to calibrate your use of "liberal" for your audience.
Im curious if they oppose the ideology or if they think it’s the opposite if conservative because American schools do a bad job of teaching most philosophy.
