Trans-inclusive radical misogyny.
the heat death of bigotry
So you're saying dude has TIRM-inal brain rot?
My brain just fell apart reading that sentence
Ah yes, the classic Iranian system.
Sometimes I need to see the twitter feeds of people like this, as a reminder of exactly what women mean when they talk about men being scum.
Sometimes it hurts to be generalized into a category I don’t feel I belong to and it’s tempting to push back, but knowing that people are out there spending what appears to be all of their free time being horrible online and harassing women is a good reminder that women are pretty justified in having a low opinion of men in general.
Now I can go back to pretending twitter doesn’t exist for a while again.
The easiest way to see if it's OK is to swap out "men" with any other protected characteristic. If, having done that it suddenly becomes problematic, it was always so and they should've known better.
I think youre right not to engage them though. For all their talk of equality, anyone who talks like that just wants to be at the top of a new hierarchy. Remove or subjugate the men and most women (who haven't decolonisated their minds) will just replicate the same power structures, adopting the position of patriarch without a hint of self awareness. The way forward is to help other men see the pain caused to them by the patriarchy, as its only then that we can see the pain we cause through the patriarchy, due to the rituals of disregard and empathy killing we go through as boys.
I'll finish by saying the same thing I said to my dad, shortly after he lost his job" "yes dad, of course I've heard of the phrase 'sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.' However, you can't always do that, especially when you're meant to be firefighter, you doughnut.
The easiest way to see if it's OK is to swap out "men" with any other protected characteristic. If, having done that it suddenly becomes problematic, it was always so and they should've known better.
No. You are making an equivalence argument that misses the reality of power dynamics and the context of like centuries of documented social oppression.
Edit: Fuck I didn’t see erin beat me to it.
So just because shitty men exist, we're supposed to say "welp generalizing us is fair because technically men like this exist"?
I have found pushing back is useless. People are just waiting for you to be a horrible "fragile man" instead of just realizing that being accurate in who you blame for being shitty matters. So yeah I wouldn't really conclude that if you see one example of someone being disgusting then you have to allow yourself to be falsely aligned with them.
You can just know the shitty generalizers are bigoted, and hope it's a phase for them. I certainly have never seen any value in either supporting that generalization or fighting against it.
People on the Internet love thinking they're better than you and that you're scum. The only way I know to deal with it is just by accepting it
This definitely misses the power imbalance of punching down vs up. If someone genuinely believes all men are "scum," yeah, that's prejudiced. However, there is a big difference between a group that has less power in society pushing up against the class that has more power or oppresses them and the reverse. The idea that "y group is (insert pejorative)" and "x group is (insert pejorative)" are equally bigoted statements assumes that x and y groups are equal in social power. Statements like "men are trash" or equivalent don't necessarily represent an individual's true opinion of all men, but a general pushing back against a group with more power, many individuals of which attempt to exercise their perceived privilege over women.
Women that say "all men are trash" or similar might not be thinking with this level of introspection and subtlety, but it's a subconscious reaction to their position as a group with less power. They rarely hold that on a personal level against every individual man, unless they've been deeply hurt. I have experienced things that make it harder for me to trust men. My friends have experienced things that make it harder to trust men. I do not think every man is evil. When you see the damage around you on societal levels, see the people calling for your rights to be taken away, see how they treat you like an object or property because of who you are, and you see it in the lives of many many people like you, it creates a resentment of the group that is responsible.
I am not suggesting that there are no women that take advantage of men. I am not suggesting that men cannot be abused. I am not suggesting that it's okay to make men feel responsible for the actions of people that share only a gender with them, nothing else. However, I am explaining why women might feel hurt or disempowered enough to push back against men in general, and why "men are trash" and "women are trash" (though far more often, the phrase when targeted at women takes a sexual connotation: whores, etc) are not equivalent statements. Both the women that have been hurt and the men that feel hurt by the byproduct of their resentment are victims of the patriarchy. Until everyone, regardless of gender, holds the same societal power, there will always be people of all groups being hurt by the imbalance.
TLDR: Don't resent the women who are a product of their environment saying "men are trash," resent the patriarchy that hurts men and women alike.
So just because shitty men exist, we're supposed to say "welp generalizing us is fair because technically men like this exist"?
Yep.
See the sibling reply from @[email protected] here for a great explanation about how power dynamics work on this topic, but also:
So yeah I wouldn't really conclude that if you see one example of someone being disgusting then you have to allow yourself to be falsely aligned with them.
One example? Really? That’s horse shit and you know it. Misogynistic behavior is a rampant, massive problem everywhere; online and in real life.
You can't justify racism or sexism in any direction without indirectly justifying it in the other direction.
Blaming an entire group for the acts of a subset of that group removes the disincentive to become a part of the subset and adds a disincentive to support those who want to fight the injustice that gets reduced to another racial or gender conflict.
I think it's no wonder that many gen z males have decided to reject the mindset that demonizes white men in general, even though that mindset is often quick to add, "there's some good ones!"
And the whole justification of "they have more power" means dick all to individuals that fall in the group that feel powerless in their life. Plus there's that little voice wondering if the racism will fade if the power balance does shift or if it will be the same thing but with oppression going in the other direction.
Your argument sounds suspiciously like someone looking to justify shitty behavior.
“You can’t acknowledge an extremely well documented culture of hate because that’s reverse sexism/racism”
“You can’t say men are bad because some men are good and if you don’t give them special attention for being good they might start being bad.”
“Some men have it hard too so power imbalance doesn’t exist and you can’t use it to explain why some women are mistrustful of men in general”.
“We need to leave the status quo because if we don’t maybe the others will get control and then they’ll treat us like we treat them now”
All of the above are shitty arguments.
I personally am offended by your user name.
Ok.
Have you tried not to hate yourself? WTF are you even on, there is a high chance that it's a joke, and even if it isn't why would "men" be scum here instead of individual?
I don’t hate myself.
I hate that enough men out there are such amazing assholes that it has created a generational issue which understandably has led to the assumption that as a man I’m probably an asshole too.
I hate that women understandably see me in public and make assumptions about my risk factor to them because victimizing women is way too common place.
Me, however, I’m pretty ok with.
I can't even imagine the roganbro brainrot it takes to get to that place. It's almost impressive in its insanity.
Agreed. I understand the words, but cannot understand the meaning of the phrases. What is "feminine" to voló? And how are ladyboys not part of the woke mind virus? And which type of guy is the dude talking about? It's confusing to follow.
Pro tip: these people rarely ever make any sense, because they are mental ill.
MAGA is not a political party or ideology. It is a mental illness fuelled by narcissism, religion, tribalism, anti-intellectualism, and nationalism. It's a dead-end death cult where feelings mean everything, and reality means nothing.
Isn't the woke mind virus just not being a piece of shit, in essence.
The "woke mind virus" is basically these people not getting how other people can be empathetic to people who aren't exactly like them
I saw a comment on YouTube a few weeks ago that I think perfectly captures the mindset of the people who scream about the "woke mind virus".
The comment was something like "I never had a problem trusting a minority surgeon, but now they're all woke DEI hires and I can't trust any of them."
In other words, "I had no problem with minority surgeons when there were almost none of them because I had to accept that there were a handful of 'good ones' that worked hard and earned it. But now that I'm seeing more of them, I know lots of the 'bad ones' are getting in that could only get in because it was handed to them because of their skin color."
In these people's minds, 95% of white people are "good ones" and 95% of minorities are "bad ones". So if any respectable job has more than a few percent of minorities, the only logical conclusion for them is that there are lots of "bad ones" getting jobs they aren't qualified for and didn't earn.
Next step: they'll take the 4chan troll logic of "it's gay to like women" seriously
I think it is already a thing on the premise that loving a woman requires softness therefore gay
Unironically I think this is what drives a decent portion of transphobia.
Im a straight dude and I think stockings, high heels, short skirts and boobs are just awesome but I'm also secure enough in my shit to say "That dude makes a pretty hot chick". I also know that my wife doesnt dress like that because its a lot of work, she doesnt feel the need to. Its very much a "sometimes food" as cookie monster would say.
So when knuckle dragging guys who havent seen their wife out of sweatpants and flipflops in 3 months see a dude who put more effort into their appearance in 1 day and they want to fuck that... They get mad.
Science Vs did an episode on the science behind gender and it blew my mind. How gender is determined biologically is far more nuanced than genitalia. It helped me realize that trans people truly are the sex they claim to be. They have different genitalia, but there are other biological factors at play and they are biologically whatever they say they are.
It helped me understand that "that dude" isn't a dude. That is a chick and she is beautiful.
Gender, like sexuality, is a spectrum and making it black and white is dumb. It's all the colours of the spectrum that make life wonderful.
I almost agree with you comment, but I have to say I can not in good conscience pretend like I believe that Cookie Monster knows the concept of a "sometimes food".
Ladyboys aren't dudes, though.
Some are some aren’t. It’s probably closest to the mid 20th century American concept of transvestite, which at the time encompassed everyone from transsexuals (at that time the medical definition of transsexual required what we would today describe as severe dysphoria and exclusive Heterosexuality) to the more modern definitions of trans people, both binary and nonbinary, as well as cisgender crossdressers of all varieties. Source
Ehh a fair amount of them do identify as trans(which is one of the reasons ladyBOY is a really sexist name) and something similar to femboys in the west but there are also the ones who are closer to being males and they just do it for money which is extremely sad. But i am a straight(enough that i have all the priviledge) european male so this just what i heard from others.
Wow, I didn't know ideas so different could cohabitate together like that in someone's mind.
You should try the PNW. Birkenstock-wearing, Prius driving conservative with trump stickers all over the hybrid car.
Did you just see my neighbors driveway through their ring camera?!
They must take a lot of shit on bowling league nights when they show up in a hybrid.
Fellas, is it woke to be hetero?
Wait a minute.
Checks the Tate guide to Masculine Success
yes
Is the "woke mind virus" a euphemism or do people believe there's an actual virus? I could imagine something like that coming from people who make videos about chemtrails.
I don’t know if he started it, but I’ve heard Musk use that phrase so I’m sure it helps the deplorables feel like real galaxy brains for hating the right people.
I'm sure to almost all, it is a euphemism. Although I'd also bet there are some people in Florida and Alabama who believe it is a literal virus that is spreading like wildfire through college campuses.
Is the "woke mind virus" a euphemism or do people believe there's an actual virus?
Do you think the people who use language like that understand what viruses actually are, besides "something infectious"?
No, to most of them viruses and bacteria are all just "germs". But considering how many people believe fluoride is for mind control I can easily imagine them believing the "Biden crime family" are literally spreading mind-control germs that turn people gay or atheist or make them love SoCiALiZm.
This kind of thing terrifies me. I think there's a solid chance that that particular tweet is a joke, but the idea that there are people out there honestly concerned with the "woke mind virus" and about how women are this and that is horrifying.
Even more, the possibility that I'm just blind to my own insanity is what really fucks me up. What if they're right and I'm crazy? Seeing so much insanity that you just have to wonder if your own sanity has been compromised.
What if they're right and I'm crazy?
If I ever have that thought, I remember I'm not the one who hates people for immutable traits, or punches down in the name of humour
I remind myaelf of this all the time, to the point that this post pretty much wins the thread.
Tap for spoiler
(Seriously lmao the MRA's choosing this thread to #NotAllMen in is just the chef's kiss.)
(Which is on top of:
Sanity is overrated No i mean it i reject Sanism )
What if they’re right and I’m crazy?
Keep asking yourself this. Try to honestly see things from their point of view. It makes you stronger. To paraphrase Sun Tzu,
- if you only think through your own beliefs, you'll have a 50-50 chance of success.
- if you think through your own beliefs, AND understand your adversary's point of view, you will always succeed.
- if you do neither, you will always fail.
Yeah, I reckon it's good to question one's own beliefs and presuppositions. Still, it's upsetting.
What if I understand my enemy but not myself?
Oh boy you are in for a treat
I love treats :D
I have been on the "Misogynist stay-at-home gamers who want 'a girl they can game with' really just want a trans BF, but they're to transphobic to admit it to themselves" wave for a while now, and they just keep giving me more evidence.
This is why RFK doesn’t eat McDonalds to get the woke mind virus brain worms.
He shot heroin for 15 years to keep away the woke.
Is this another term for trans women, or something different?
Edit: thanks for everyone who's educated me, this is really interesting!
In western trans culture, most trans women would consider being called a "ladyboy" or "shemale" an overly sexualized insult. It's primarily used when referring to sex workers, not to someones identity. It's similar to calling a random woman who has children a MILF. So don't refer to someone as this unless that is a label they apply to themselves first.
I'm not knowledgeable enough to truly make definitive statements about how the term is used in Thailand, but from what I understand it's a rough/poor translation from "Kathoey" which is used for anyone outside of traditional gender roles meaning a more direct/correct translation would be non-binary or queer.
On a related note, Femmeboy is a term used in the west, but that is specifically referring to a younger man/boy who is effeminate. It is specifically saying they are not trans, so could be anything from a femme gay boy to someone who enjoys crossdressing.
Not really, although it can be used as such, usually by folks who don’t really know what they’re talking about.
Gender identity in Thailand is complicated
Freaking fascinating.
Cross dressers rather than trans, from my understanding.
Sort of. I think it covers a range of things from trans to cross dressers.
I think it's just something we westerners used before trans people popped into existence over here about five years ago.
Trans people didn't "pop into existence," they've always been here, even being an important group in the Stonewall riots.
It's just that it became more acceptable to come out, so reactionaries went full-on open season on them in an effort to force them back in the closet in an aggressive attempt to protect their own fragile identities.
They have their own mind virus which makes them think that meek, innocent, naive hyperfeminity is the only valid femininity. They watch anime[^1] and terribly written women in film. Both of which infantilize women. And they watch women get dominated by men in porn.
[^1]: Anime fans, miss me with your examples of "badass" women in anime. They all still look like little girls 90% of the time.
The concept of femininity in these boys' heads is completely divorced from what it actually means to be a woman. To be a human being. They want all women to dress in school girl outfits, short skirts, or satin dresses. Women who should spend 100% of their time trying to please their husband, a word that historically means "a man who manages a property". They see women as sexy property.
As a bonus, they all want "trad wives" and yet they vote for politicians that make it impossible to survive on a single income unless they want to live in a trailer park.
Thirteen anime fans couldn't handle this comment.
Almost all anime characters look 12.
God forgives, but the bradster doesn't
Suck that strong conservative ladydick, fellas 🇺🇸 🇺🇸
