The US won the physical war but lost the soft war to Russia.
The US is being couped, and we need to dethrone them before it's too late.
In what way did the US win the physical war? Russia is still occupying a lot of the disputed territory.
Lots of propaganda today, seems like someone doesn't like Zelenskyy or a strong Ukraine.
Slava Ukraine!
Demoralized Russians Go Home
the amount of Fascist, Jingoistic shitposting that favors either Republican or Russian propaganda on social media is STAGGERING. The people arguing for it are more concerned about bathroom gender signs, DEI, wokism, and a bunch of other made up stuff, and not only are they oblivious that their country is being taken over by a foreign aggressor, THEY ARE PROUD OF IT. Because "at least the Russians kill the gays"
We are in this position we are today, because Russia has been waging an information war against NATO countries for 15-20 years. and the seeds they planted during the days of Georgia and Crimea, are blooming into fruit now.
The free world is AT WAR with Russia, and for the time being, America has been conquered. Victory from the jaws of Defeat, for the Russian mafia
Trump is definitely aligned with Russia, but that's very far from being conquered.
What is there to negotiate? If all the russians leave ukraine, ukranians will probably stop shooting them...
Russia has always firmly opposed expansion of NATO, including the missiles and NATO troops that were lined up at their border with Ukraine’s participation.
I've always plainly stated that if anyone comes within 2 metres of me, I'm going to stab them. What do you mean, I'm going to prison??!! You knew my rule. I've been telling everyone my rule for 20 years.
Do you think that NATO was planning to invade Russia? And if not, then WTF is Putin's problem?
All those countries that joined NATO, Their sovereignty doesn't end where hurt russian fee-fees begin
if Russia doesnt like it, then maybe they should reflect on how they acted like savage barbarians to those people throughout history. Maybe they should reflect that they aren't entiteld to an "Empire" or a "Sphere of Influence" or whatever they want to call it. Reflect on the fact that Eastern and Central europe are not pawns and slaves to a larger power. but nations with agency, hopes, dreams and goals.
but they wont, Imperialism, Warmongering, and Genocide are married to the current excuse of "Russian Culture"
Except Ukraine was on their border and not part of NATO and other countries on their border are. NATO Then Russia invaded and took the Crimean peninsula unprovoked. Not a surprise that Ukraine wants NATO membership, and now Finland joined NATO because of Russia's attack on Ukraine, doubling the NATO/Russia border.
NATO hasn't "expanded" in a long time, until recently when Sweden and Finland decided to join. A decision that was made based on the Russian invasion of Ukraine. So through Russia's actions, two countries have decided to join an organisation that was made to opposed Russia.
Before that, no new members were accepted into NATO, even if they wanted to join, because NATO members weren't really seeing the point of NATO anymore, and they didn't see a reason to provoke Russia. That changed in 2014 when Russia invaded Ukraine for the first time, and annexed Crimea.
Last but not least; NATO doesn't expand. It's not a nation with borders that grow through conquest or subjugation. It is a defensive pact that the peolpe of a nation must vote on to join. And then the members of NATO must unanimously vote on letting the new country join. It is voluntary and democratic.
So instead of shoutong "NATO IS EXPANDING, GRRR!!", why not ask yourself "why would Russia's neighbouring countries want to join NATO?"
Reminder: Russia violated all of these uninformed.
Also, why is this posted here? This is not a meme.
Everyday life is a meme now
If Russia withdrew their troops, there would be peace immediately.
If Ukraine withdrew their troops, Ukraine would be no more - and there’s no indication Russia would stop there.
Lots of LLM bots today. We may need to start verifying accounts :/
I've been noticing this a lot. There's a lot more Russian support in all my apps. I really think there's a concerted effort that is now being fully enabled by our current administration.
There wasn’t peace before Russia invaded. The far-right US puppet regime was slaughtering ethnic Russians in the east, and allowing NATO to move in troop and missile deployments to the Russian border.
Why would Ukraine behave differently after a Russian withdrawal, when they were escalating for 8 years prior to the invasion?
If Russia withdrew their troops, there would be peace immediately
That's technically true. However, Russia uses military force in its sphere of influence for a reason, not solely because Putin bad (which he is, I'm a commie and Putin is fascist-adjacent at best).
Russia, like all big capitalist countries, wants to secure a sphere of influence in which it can do easy trade, influence the politics, and generally have support from these countries. The US does this for example with western Europe through NATO, and with less diplomatic methods by supporting coups and invading other countries. China does this through economic trade and through massive investment projects. Russia is in a weak position internationally, barely recovered economically from the dismantling of the USSR, and it's surrounded by former soviet republics very much in a similar plane (barely economically recovered from the 90s crisis as a consequence of the dismantling of the USSR).
These post-soviet republics, such as Ukraine or Georgia, adopted capitalism (as Russia did) in a very quick and disorderly fashion, and the resulting oligarchs and capitalist owners ended up fumbled in a mix of pro-russian and pro-european/US positions.
The EU and the USA both exert pressure on these countries to try and bring them to their side. Being economically and politically stronger, they can use trade, diplomacy, intelligence and economic means to alienate these countries front the Russian sphere of influence. Russia, in a more precarious and weaker economic and political position, simply doesn't have the means to maintain the diplomatic, economic and intelligence means to maintain these countries aligned to itself.
The war in Ukraine, much as the interference in Georgian and Romanian elections by the EU, mustn't be understood as a struggle between freedom and oppression. It's sadly just a struggle between two capitalist empires, namely Russia and US/EU, fighting for the control of smaller countries that they want aligned to themselves.
Once Russia doesn't have the means to economically, diplomatically and through intelligence, to influence its former sphere of influence into staying by its side, the only option left is the military route. The US and the EU know this, and they keep trying to mess with Russia's sphere of influence for gains to their empires. The reality is that there is no good side and no bad side: it's just struggle between opposing empires.
So yes, technically if Russia withdrew its troops, there would be peace. But this peace would mean that firstly the surrounding regions around Russia, and Russia itself, would become colonies and vassal states of the western world. It wouldn't mean "freedom" for Ukraine, as we can see by the exploitative contract for the minerals of Ukraine that the US offers. If you think the EU will offer something substantially less exploitative towards Ukrainians, you're wrong.
Ukraine, sad as it is, as long as it remains a state between empires, will suffer the effects of both. And only socialism in Europe and Russia can offer a meaningful response to this.
- Russia was by no means forced into the conflict. They did it because Putin wants more power for himself.
- Russia has great diplomatic power. They managed to get a Russia loving president in US.
- If Ukraine falls, then there’s going to be some other nation that will be the ”state between empires”. Next will be Moldova. Maybe Russia is brave enough to take on the Baltic countries as well now when the future of NATO is uncertain. If that succeeds, then Poland will be next, and maybe also eastern Germany.
- Ukraine rejected the US offer because it didn’t offer any safety guarantees other than that Trump said that Putin said something. Why should Ukraine sign a deal that won’t end the war?
The deal should be... All Russian troops get pulled out of Ukraine. Ukraine gets a lump sum of all seized Russian assets in foreign nations, Russia agrees not to move troops within 100 miles of Ukraine's border without Ukraine's consent. Ukraine agrees to allow and even assist civillain Russian services with locating and returning living and deceased Russians.
The alternative is we take the limits off of what targets can be attacked within Russia, and enable Ukraine to enforce the conditions as proposed.
I'd also like to add that Russia and the US give up their UN "super veto" power. I don't think anything good and effective can come from the UN when a single country can just "nope" any UN proposals.
Fool me once, shame on me, fool me 20 times and I should sign away half my country's mineral wealth for no guarantees and no gains...
If somebody fools you twenty times they are (best case scenario) literally Loki.
I dunno, there are a tonne of incredibly stupid and uncreative people who conservatives believe every day for years. The part about loki seems to be a statisical outlier not just “best case scenario”, ya know?
So what’s the alternative?
Give Ukraine back their own nuclear defense. Suddenly Russia can tolerate a neighbour who isn't a vassal state and can make their own determinations about which pacts they want to enter into with other countries. Ukraine joins NATO and the EU. Putin burns in hell. AKA Happy ending.
Give Ukraine everything they need to kick the Russians off their soil. Tomahawks, F35s, a million artillery shells a week, etc... lift all usage restrictions with the exception of civilian targets and infrastructure. Once every square inch of Ukraine is back in Ukrainian hands full NATO membership and a Marshall like recovery plan.
Or assassinate Putin. As long as Putin lives Ukraine is under threat.
That an ally offers security guarantees and support to rebuild after defeating their biggest military threat?
Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
Ukraine, Russia, the DPR and LPR signed a ceasefire agreement, the Minsk Protocol, in September 2014.[40] Ceasefire breaches became rife, 29 in all,[41] and heavy fighting resumed in January 2015, during which the separatists captured Donetsk Airport. A new ceasefire, Minsk II, was agreed on 12 February 2015. Immediately after, separatists renewed their offensive on Debaltseve and forced Ukraine's military to withdraw.[42] Skirmishes continued but the front line did not change. Both sides fortified their position by building networks of trenches, bunkers and tunnels, resulting in static trench warfare.[43][44] Stalemate led to the war being called a "frozen conflict",[45] but Donbas remained a war zone, with dozens killed monthly.[46] In 2017, on average a Ukrainian soldier died every three days,[47] with an estimated 40,000 separatist and 6,000 Russian troops in the region.[48][49] By the end of 2017, OSCE observers had counted around 30,000 people in military gear crossing from Russia at the two border checkpoints it was allowed to monitor,[50] and documented military convoys crossing from Russia covertly.[51] All sides agreed to a roadmap for ending the war in October 2019,[52] but it remained unresolved.[53][54] During 2021, Ukrainian fatalities rose sharply and Russian forces massed around Ukraine's borders.[55] Russia recognised the DPR and LPR as independent states on 21 February 2022 and deployed troops to those territories. On 24 February, Russia began a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, subsuming the war in Donbas into it.
Make no Mistake: Russia is trying to destroy Ukraine since 2014. Russia is the agressor and needs to put in its place.
Russia is trying to destroy Ukraine ever since both of them were founded as independent counties. This is just a reiteration of what we've already seen in the russian empire and in the USSR. History is a merry-go-round and I'm getting motion sick of all the rotation.
Edit: typo
Goes back to the Russian Revolution at the very least, though probably to the the Russian Empire. Historical data send to suggest that the Russian elite will not accept anyone but Russian hegemony over the region. The Bolsheviks betrayed the Ukrainian Anarcho-Communists who had helped to defeat the White army because they wanted independent self-governance rather than bowing to the Bolsheviks' authoritarian Central Council in Moscow.
This is just a reiteration of what we've already seen in the russian empire and in the USSR
Comparing the Russian Empire and the USSR is the most ahistorical thing you can possibly do. During the Russian Empire and for all of history before that, Ukraine was a people without a nation. Oppressed, without representation, without borders, without a right to education or even learning to read in their language.
The Bolsheviks, with their first constitution in 1917, granted the right to self-determination and secession to all peoples of the former Russian Empire, which Lenin referred to as "the prison of peoples". Quite literally after Poland seceded in this legal fashion, the Polish government decided it wanted to return to the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth borders, and proceeded to unilaterally invade Ukraine and part of modern Belarus. It was the Red Army of the Russian Socialist Federation of Soviet Republics, that fought off the Polish invasion and established a lasting Ukrainian People's Republic for the first time in history.
This wasn't without controversy: while Lenin argued for the right to representation and to a Ukrainian Republic within the USSR, others like Rosa Luxembourg argued for a united, more homogeneous sort of socialist soviet nationality that outgrew former nationalisms. It is partially thanks to Lenin that Ukraine ended up having its own borders, administration and representation.
I know what you'll say: "but Holodomor! Genocide against Ukrainians!". The famine of the USSR was a sad and unintended consequence of bad policy during the collectivisation/dekulakization process of the early 30s. Millions of people died both within Ukraine and without it, especially as well in Central Asia and southern Russia. As bad as it was, and as avoidable as one can argue it may have been, there's simply no evidence of any intent of attack towards Ukrainian people, it's not precedented by anything similar, and it's not followed by anything similar in the entire history of the USSR.
In those decades and the ones to come, Ukraine would obtain and solidify its own nationality, people would for the first time obtain generalised literacy in their own language, the right to study in their language up to university level, a majority of publications (both journalistic and literary) in Ukrainian, and the very next president of the USSR Nikita Khruschchyov would be Ukrainian.
Attempting to construe a history of oppression of Ukrainians in the USSR is nothing but fictitious, anti-communist and russophobic propaganda, meant to create a divide between Ukrainians and Russians. There are clear geopolitical reasons to do so, and there are clear reasons why Ukrainians are very much afraid or simply hate Russians, because of the modern proto-fascist state that the Russian Republic has become. But creating a line between this capitalist country, the socialist USSR, and the feudalist Russian Empire, is simply an attempt to divide Eastern Europe further and to push Ukraine towards the EU and away from Russia. This point can be argued for without resorting to russophobic and anticommunist myths. We're smarter than this.
You can absolutely want peace and even agree to concessions to Russia to reach a sustainable peace, but this point is absolutely valid: there must be security guarantees, otherwise Putin will just use the armistice to rebuild its strength and attack again.
Like all the guarantees before it, trusting the scorpion will only get the frog drowned.
As a disgusted American.... SLAVA UKRAINE!
I'm sorry my country is acting so poorly
Security guarantees are nice but only if there believable. If the last 3 years have shown anything it's that the west will not go to all out war with Russia over Ukraine. It may make putin more hesitant but if he calls our bluff a piece of paper isn't going to change the fact that Americans and western Europeans aren't willing to die for Ukraine.
There are already were security guarantees, and then the US and their puppet in Ukraine violated their agreements.
Zelensky confirmed it was 25 in his meeting with Trump.
The image describes 2014-2022. So it seems he's had 5 additional sit-downs with Russia between 2023-2025.
At least someone is trying to make peace happen (Ukraine).
I'm all for diplomacy. Finding diplomatic solutions to these kinds of problems is the ideal outcome.
When it's not ideal and you're dealing with someone irrational or uncooperative, then maybe fighting isn't the worst way to go.
Bluntly, I support Ukraine. They're clearly trying to make diplomacy work.
I can't say the same for Putin/Russia.
LoL. That upvote count. You bots can’t even feign organic.
Because memes aren't journalism: you got any sources?
Seriously they should just assassinate Putin at this point. If he's anything like Trump then half of Russia will be joyful.
Oh he's worse than Trump, in that most of russia actually worships him. He's literally not giving his country a chance to think about alternatives.
Russians overwhelmingly understand this is a defensive war for them. The most extreme delusional propaganda we are fed is that provoking this war would help overthrow Putin with pro NATO liberalism. NATO is not a purely defensive alliance desperately trying to convince Russians of love and freedom from submission to them.
Fuck lemmy for leaking politics to every possible community and not removing it on user reports. What a cesspool of a platform.
As i just said in another comment: imagine the backlash if someone were to post something similar with putin face. People are being accused of being russian trolls for the slightest unaligned critic of ukraine government. I'm not questioning it but this post is what propaganda actually looks like
Judging by your other comments, I suppose you get your "news" on fox news...?
How is your comment related to what i just said?
It's probably because Putin invaded a sovereign nation. People tend to look down on things like that.
Ukraine had a ceasefire agreement 7 days after the invasion. The US & UK got them to walk away from it.
https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/6kwrs4pplmwj2nxzy9el73gx2w9cfn
I also can’t imagine this ends with the current far-right regime maintaining their grip on power, nor being allowed to continue the genocide of ethnic Russians in the east.
Or all three
Ah yes, good old "Let me post any literal shit because if readers want, they must prove it themself". That's impolite, but understandable. But for God's sake, to post logically malformed statements and wait for readers to indicate it is a whole new level of egoism.
Not tell me, proud democrat, if Russia invaded with its army Ukraine in 2022, then with whom was Ukraine reaching those mystical 20 cease-fire agreements 8 years before? About what were there agreements when there litreally was no Russian army and Ukraine was fighting its own regions for years?
Ukraine and russia were at war in 2014 look up the minsk agreements. In 2022 putin decided the minsk agreements didn't exist and invaded ukraine.
Now before you say anything. This took me 1 minute to look up via google on a wiki page
So proud, err. i guess repulican? Do you feel humbled at all by the evidence to backup ops picture i just provided?
No, Ukraine was victim of a soft coup by the US in 2014, when they installed a far-right puppet regime, and then violated the agreements before moving on to a genocide of ethnic Russians in the Donbas region.
https://www.jeffsachs.org/newspaper-articles/6kwrs4pplmwj2nxzy9el73gx2w9cfn
"wikipedia-which-can-be-edited-by-anyone" is of course iron edidence to be humbled by.
But even if you take a little bit more time than just 1 minute to evaluate arguments or at least scroll that same page lower, you will see some interesting facts. Unsurprisingly, Ukraine was never planning to fullfill those agreements and Europe was only depicting diplomatic activity, trying to maximally arm Ukraine. None were giving a damn about people on the problem lands. Yes, they were obviously supported by Russia, but it was support, never ordering, in contrast to Ukraine planning to subjugate separatic regions.
So what again was the diplomatic role of the vaunted give-me-all-your-weapons beggar Zelensky?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements#:~:text=Oleksii Arestovych%2C a,its armed forces.
there litreally was no Russian army
This is factually incorrect.
Ok, then why post is calling 2.24.2022 russian invasion when according to you army was already there? More looks like epic russian pull-ups of reserves then?
Russia was supporting problematic regions to stand their own rights with arms and mens but nothing more. There were no official manifestation of russian intrusion. Even in the already mentioned here minsk agreements the main Kyiv opposition signs were from the DPR leader Aleksandr Zakharchenko and LPR leader Igor Plotnitskiy. Russian ambassador Mikhail Zurabov was only sideways witness along with Heidi Tagliavini OSCE representative.
Ukraine's account of who broke ceasefires is as reliable as Israel's. During period in question, ethnic Russians were being massacred by nationalists such as Azov battalion paramilitaries. You'd need to examine each of the 20 ceasefires without playing favorites to get an honest account, which I can't do. Overall, Ukraine was the definite aggressor during this period.
During period in question, ethnic Russians were being massacred by nationalists such as Azov battalion paramilitaries.
Is this claim documented anywhere?
An unbelievably distorted western propaganda perspective: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas
The background of Donbas discontent is ommitted, but Apartheid laws and Odessa massacre, made these "insurgent terrorists" demand autonomy.
His only hope is going to be assassinating Putin and hope the next person ends it.
Can someone explain how you are supposed to get Russia to leave? Sanctions didn't work, lethal aid didn't work, F-16s didn't work, and striking Russia itself isn't either.
You can argue for the war to continue I suppose, but Ukraine isn't winning and I'm not seeing anything here that would change that fact.
Russia isn't winning, either.
Can someone explain how you are supposed to get Russia to leave? Sanctions didn’t work, lethal aid didn’t work, F-16s didn’t work, and striking Russia itself isn’t either.
These things haven't won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia's economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They've been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress. This is not a great long term strategy, but it's the one Russia has been stuck with.
You can argue for the war to continue I suppose, but Ukraine isn’t winning and I’m not seeing anything here that would change that fact.
But what's the alternative? Right now Ukraine can only fight or surrender. While they fight, they can try to negotiate a peace deal, but so far the only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender. Give Russia everything they want, give up on everything you want, stop the fighting for now but put nothing in place to ensure that Russia won't just rearm and invade again later.
These things haven’t won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia’s economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They’ve been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress.
Ukrainian propaganda that they've been winning all along. Russian military production is over 70% higher than at start of war, 30%/year last 2, and they gain territory every week with a weapons advantage including when new western arms shipments come in. Believing your fantasy is pro suiciding of Ukrainians.
The only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender.
The same deal from Russia was always on table for avoiding the war. Absolutely zero reason to think it was ever insincere or not meant to put both countries back at peace. If Ukraine's goal for a ceasefire is to rearm and resume terrorism operations on liberated regions of Ukraine, then Ukraine needs a new leader to get a lasting peace. Again, zero reason that Russia won't abide by peace it demands. US led Ukraine on the wrong track, and Ukraine Russia relations can get back on right track with "traditional attitude rulership"
There's no evidence that Russia is going to lose steam economically or on the battlefield any time soon. Continuing to fight a losing war will only make any final deal between the US, Russia and Ukraine worse for the latter. There's a reason the 2022 treaty that was proposed looks unrealistic today, and whatever deal they make now will be much better than when they finally run out of men in the Ukrainian army.
With the situation as it stands, negotiating is the best way out if you actually care about Ukraine. If you just want to weaken Russia then sure, fight to the last ukrainian.
Are you sure that Ukraine is not winning?
It is a war of attrition with Russia against the amount of aid the West is willing to provide to Ukraine.
The only way Russia wins is if the US changes the balance of power by enriching Russia (dropping sanctions) or impoverishing Ukraine (dropping support).
So they should give up and let Russia re-arm and try again?
You're right, they should just be at war forever. The American Way.
Maybe they will attack again, but is throwing every last body they have to their deaths somehow going to help?
The F-16s mainly replace the losses of Ukraine‘s Air Force.
Yes, but they very much were not the game changers as touted by western leaders. Russia still very much has air superiority, which has been key for their battlefield results.
Ah, but have you considered that the good guy always wins?
This seems to genuinely be how libs think about this. There's no need for any practical considerations about what is achievable or how long it would take or how much it would cost, because the people with the best ideas will always come out on top, no matter what. The only way to lose is to corrupt the purity of the cause and of the ideal, practical/material considerations are unimportant and somehow unclean and distasteful to even consider.
"Just world theory," I suppose.
So you believe there is some magical weapon "X", when given to Ukraine, will make Russia leave? There is one, it's nuclear bomb lol. Other than that, it's not a specific weapon type that has to be provided, but a steady flow of a range of weapons.
People expect Ukrainians to fight to the last man, for honor or some shit, and its gross. People are dying, and they've been at a stalemate for years. The outcome of this was never going to be good, considering the West has never given a single shit about Ukraine. Even before the war, the US toyed with them and blocked them from joining NATO for YEARS. With all the wars the West loses, you'd think they'd know when to call it off.
Source: Zelensky.
For an interesting, not meme-like reading about these ceasefires, you could reach this timeline.
The meme talks about 2014 to 2022, your sub stack post about 2021 to 2025, so one is talking about the conflict leading up to the full invasion by Russia, the other is talking about what happened after the Russian invasion. They are closely related but not the same.
No, not the same, but it's a good start point.
Stop lying.
Okay.
We are not just believing propaganda anymore. Ukraine can either work to stop this war or keep it going with out US support. Good luck to them! Russia can say the same about the NATO and Ukraine but that wouldn’t fit the agenda.
So nothing to add? Wonder who is be propaganda slave!
Oh, so we’re ‘not just believing propaganda anymore’—except for the part where you parrot Russia’s favorite talking points? Ukraine didn’t start this war; Russia did. Telling Ukraine to ‘work to stop it’ is like blaming a robbery victim for not handing over their wallet fast enough. If you’re done with propaganda, maybe start by questioning the one that excuses the actual aggressor.
When Ukraine gained independence, Russia's understanding was that it would accept the emergence of democracy on its doorstep in exchange for assurances regarding security. Specifically, the agreement entailed that NATO would not expand beyond Germany. In the early 1990s and again in 2000, Russia sought to join NATO, only to be rebuffed. NATO, in turn, has often relied on portraying Russia as a threat to justify its military expenditures and equipment buildup. The conflict in Ukraine was sparked in large part by NATO’s eastward expansion, especially its support for Ukraine’s NATO aspirations and the subsequent military aid provided to Kyiv. To understand this complex geopolitical issue more fully, it is important to engage with historical sources rather than be swayed by biased narratives.
Please say you forgot the /s
Nah he's a known troll/kremlin boot licker
I don't recall hearing about 20 ceasefire agreements.
I think somebody has misunderstood a comment made by Zelenskyy at the International Summit on the Support of Ukraine, held this February just passed. Zelenskyy said:
We remember that Russia has violated the ceasefire more than 25 times since 2014.
Zelenskyy is talking about the ceasefire which formed part of the Minsk agreements. Representatives from both Ukraine and Russia signed these agreements, with the final protocol's first point being:
- To ensure an immediate bilateral ceasefire.
This is the ceasefire agreement which Russia has violated. That is to say, there haven't been 20 separate ceasefire agreements, there was one which Zelenskyy told the Summit Russia had violated more than 25 times.
That makes more sense. 20 separate ceasefire agreements in the space of ~8 years would be quite eyebrow raising.
i guess the continued shelling of civilians in donbass and the rise of the banderites is russias fault too
Of course it is, it always is. Russians are to blame for everything.
This, but unironically I guess.
Weird how banderites never "shelled civilians" before russian invasion, innit?
banderites never “shelled civilians”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelling_of_Donetsk,_Rostov_Oblast
On 13 July 2014, mortar shells fired from Ukrainian territory landed in the courtyard of a private home in the border town of Donetsk. The shelling killed one civilian and injured two others
The Ukraine-Russia conflict has begun to sound a lot like the Israel-Gaza conflict, in so far as you've got these little media bubbles where "My side has NEVER done ANYTHING wrong and they just want to kill all of us, so everyone on their side is a valid target for shelling."
And then they suddenly have been doing it for 8 years
Your comment contains as many sources as there is punctuation marks. Do tell me more?
e: that came across as unusually short. I'm interested in learning of this shelling, I've not heard of civilian targeting.
I went hunting for sources and found this. It seems to highlight the chaos in the region more than assigning blame.
I mean, technically sort of, yeah. Continued russian aggression and interference most definitely contributed to the rise of political extremism. Which just so happened to give the Kreml plenty of reason for further interference, such as the direct deployment of "volunteers" into the civil war.
Russia would have had the opportunity to support Russian communities in Ukraine peacefully, for example with beneficial trade agreements and cultural exchange programs. Unfortunately for these Russian communities, all the Kreml knows are diplomatic pressure and coercion and force of arms. As such, Russian culture was regarded as a mark of oppresion and the communities became targets of both Russian and Ukrainian nationalists - either as enemies, or potential agents.
Note: This is simply my, obviously non-comprehensive, personal understanding of the situation. Feel free to elaborate.
Since both exist only in russian imagination, yes
Are these things that happened in the magnitude you are implying?
