It's very hard to find the motivation to pay taxes to a federal government that doesn't represent me. "No taxation without representation" drove the revolution against our original king after all...
Now that it's clear the Federal government is just using tax money to give to billionaires, it's going to be extra painful this year. It genuinely just feels like a protection racket now. Pay money to the ruling class, or their enforcers will haul you away to prison.
I ended up owning $38
fucking win! I'm not going look at the total paid in thought, it's much much more than $1.2k
Taxes are not the problem. Billionaires grabbing the money on the other side are the problem.
Know the difference
Taxes are also the problem in countries like the US and China wherein income tax only exists to remove currency from circulation. There's plenty of other ways to do that in a digital world.
The rich would just use crypto
Lol, when I was in China, I never saw the taxes, so I'm assuming they just tax the corporations who pass down the costs by raising prices.
Like there is literally no "sales tax" in PRC, at least when I left around 2010. I also never heard my parents ever paying any "income tax". So its probably all pre-deducted before you even get paid. When we first arrived in the US, my mom was so "frugal" that she whenever she see the "sales tax" she have like a mini existential crisis or something. 🤣
(This is in Guangzhou btw, just in case y'all are wondering)
Taxation is theft
Before the feds went fascist, this was hyperbole. Now it's simply the truth, for federal, anyway. At least my state taxes are still being used for public benefit.
Good luck getting that tariff money to pay for local roads and schools.
I'm sure that Elon Musk will agree with you.
Two thefts make a restitution
Isn't it actually better to owe rather than have a refund? Because if they owe you, then that means they over-withheld from you paychecks throughout the year and its essentially the government borrowing money from you without any interest.
They do give you interest, but it's not as good as you can get from investing it elsewhere. And if you owe student loans, they can yoink your return before you were otherwise going to pay the debt.
In the Norwegian tax system, if you pay too much taxes trough the year from your paycheck, you get interest on the amount you paid to much. Likewise, if you pay too little taxes throughout the year, you will have to pay interest on the amount you have yet to pay. So the system is supposed to be balanced in that regard. The interest is on the level of a savings account (3.51% annual atm), so you could make an argument that saving that in a index stock or good bond is a better ROI though, so still recommended to try to not pay too much during the year.
The US federal government pays interest. The interest rates are quarterly.
I got paid interest on a tax correction & the rate was pretty good: over 5.5 APY, better than a high-yield savings account. I'll owe taxes on it, though.
I actually wish I could do this in Australia, for the reasons you mention (from a self-interested point of view).
I'm glad tax witholding is mandatory here though, because the government has to pay for stuff throughout the year, on services which we all benefit.
And it reduces the number of people who have illogical emotional reactions on having to pay taxes. (Much less resistance when you get a touch back, than have to pay more)
We do also pay taxes for stupid shit, like our tribute of $300 B AUD to the US for submarines. But alas, such is government spending. We can't all agree what's actually good.
Should have stuck with France.
I look at it like a non-voluntary piggy bank. I set the amount I'm going to withhold from every pay check, and anything over, gets given back. Sure it's interest free but if you look at an actual bank, interest rates on that money sitting in a savings account is pennies. And if you're someone who is bad at not spending your money, having it held for you with no real way to withdraw it is helpful when budgeting.
Besides, it's easy to over pay, it's pretty difficult for most people to net zero on tax payments without ending up owing money. And the amount you owe, could be something you hadn't budgeted for. I owe $450 this year. I don't really know where I'm getting that money. Most people will be less happy owing money than over paying and getting a refund.
If Americans want a proper country, yall better get used to paying 40% taxes like in Europe muhahahahah!!!
Ok, some parts of Europe..Bracketed income tax is a thing for a reason, and it is a good reason.
more income == more tax.
If I'm making less than $20k/year, there's no reason to give a shit about my taxes, just let me live yo.
If I'm making $200k+/year, then we have a conversation on our hands.
If I'm making 2,000k+/year, then we have a problem and the conversation should have have been completed by now.
edit:
exact numbers are not relevant. if you have a functioning brain, then you know what I mean.
What a bizarre system. Tax should be taken from your payslip. There should be no need for the individual to figure out anything, unless they are self employed.
They do deduct taxes from your paycheck. Basically once a year, you have to true up and figure the exact amount you should have paid. If that's less than what was withheld, you get a refund.
It is taken from the payslip. But then they have us verify what they already know and if you make a mistake you're punished for it! It's bullshit.
I want so bad for the US to do it the way every sane country does it; they just send me a thing so I can make sure they're accurate and only need to take action if they fuck up.
You can thank Intuit, the company behind TurboTax, for making taxes as difficult as possible. They spend a lot of money lobbying to make filing taxes more difficult.
Income tax always struck me as a deliberate way to make your average joe hate taxes when they could, very easily, be calculated at time of payroll without you ever being shown the “pre tax” amount.
They already do that tho, payroll tax is paid by the employer without the employee every seeing it.
When I was in China as a kid I never saw any visible form of "taxes". I also never heard of any income taxes. I have no idea how the tax thing works, but I'm assuming they just tax the corporations, which solves both the sales tax and the income tax at once.
(Guangzhou, PRC. Other cities might work differently I have no idea tho)
But what about the tax preparation industry? Won't anybody think of the shareholders? For shame.
That's how it is here in France. It is calculated according to the previous year income, so if you get a raise you'll have to pay a little bit more at the end the following fiscal year, but that's often very little. Last time I got a 2500€ yearly raise, I had to align something like... 100€ 😆.
Why, though?
I'm in Germany and my employer kind of knows how much they pay me. So they can easily calculate the income tax correctly. It's just assumed that each month's salary is 1/12th of my yearly income and taxed appropriately.
You can literally live your entire life without "doing taxes" even once (though it's a good idea for your individual deductions).
Yuuuuuuup.
Taxes are taken from the payslip, but there's a bunch of other things that can affect your income taxes. For example, you need to pay income tax on bank interest and capital gains tax on investments you sold during the year. There's also a bunch of deductions that reduce your taxable income - for example, if you have a mortgage, you can deduct some of the interest.
Of course, the IRS should already know most of this stuff, so I'm not sure why they make us tell them again.
Don’t worry DOGE will fix that and every American will get a refund!
Know you're joking, but just think it's funny to point out that one of DOGE's first acts was to try to kill the direct file system the IRS maintains to make it easier for some people to file their taxes. I feel like that one didn't get a lot of coverage.
And they just fired a huge chunk of the IRS as well.
Yep, and this cartoon feels like America would keep voting for this stupid fascist stuff as long as they keep promising the Libertarian ideal of lower and lower taxes.
Americans trained to defund America, the enemy was inside all along.
And they didn't even deliver on that one simple thing.
Taxes go up for every voter making less than 357,000$
How fucked are you if you don’t file?
I didn’t file last year, because I’ve been in a clusterfuck of borderline homelessness and odd jobs for the past two years. Idk if I am even able to file this year if I didn’t last?
It sounds like you aren't making much money, so you probably don't owe much, if any, in taxes. For the year 2024, if you got a W-2 from your employer, you should file. What you did in previous years won't affect your ability to file this year. Who knows? perhaps you will get a refund.
if you're making money and don't file, it'll catch up to you. If you're poor and don't file they will make your life harder when you try to collect social services
Big part of it was the surprise illegal eviction my ex got to do when he wanted to move in his prostitute (cops in OK don’t give a shit about your rights if your trans lol). Navigating the divorce system with no money, all the paper work that I have no idea if survived the parents guest room -> friends couch -> apartment.
There aren’t social services here anyway at least lol
Income amount that requires you to file
If you were under 65 at the end of 2024
If your filing status is: File a tax return if your gross income is: Single $14,600 or more Head of household $21,900 or more Married filing jointly $29,200 or more (both spouses under 65) $30,750 or more (one spouse under 65) Married filing separately $5 or more Qualifying surviving spouse $29,200 or more https://www.irs.gov/individuals/check-if-you-need-to-file-a-tax-return
I’ve had to work with the irs a few times in my life and they were always reasonable and understanding. I lost everything and had to scrounge up $200k by selling off a business and everything but a shirt off my back and they never charged interest or late fees because I always answered their calls and kept them updated on what was going on. I know many others have had different experiences but the two times I was in deep shit and desperate times I walked away with a positive experience from the irs.
Haha, my last tax filing I owed another $40k.
My own fault for not paying taxes during the year though.
In the country where you don't know what you ll end up paying unless you go to the counter, because the taxes are not included, its only "logical" to not have your taxes deducted from your payslio because reasons
I ll never understand this shit, smh
I'm not sure what country you're talking about, but I assume the U.S. We do have taxes deducted from payroll, and you fill out a form telling the employer (and the IRS) what amount to deduct based on estimated income, family size, and a couple of other factors. Then in April we have to file our official tax form declaring actual income, and if we owe less than what was deducted from our paychecks we receive that back as a refund, but if we underestimated we have to pay whatever taxes are remaining. The reason that filing taxes is so complicated is the sheer volume of deductions, exemptions, credits, etc that have been piled on top of the tax code over the years (plus lobbying by the tax prep industry). It's a stupid system, but it's not as stupid as some people seem to be assuming in this thread. If you set up your withholding right, you shouldn't ever owe taxes when it's time to file.
Now, if you're self-employed or a contractor (and considered self-employed) the whole thing kind of falls apart and it's a lot easier to wind up owning a bunch of money. Like I said, it is a stupid system, just not quite as crazy as some people seem to be assuming.
To add one thing to the only reasonable comment I've seen in this thread: if you're poorer, your taxes are probably easy and straightforward. If you have money and your taxes are more complicated, you can probably afford to have someone do them for you.
I can't agree with this enough, though I think part of the problem is that it isn't what's easy to complete your W-4 accurately, there is an entire worksheet to use if you file jointly that is sorta difficult to do well, especially if both people make fairly different amounts. If you just choose the basic withholding it's very likely the bigger breadwinner isn't withholding enough and you'll end up owing about what the comic shows (at least that is my experience, as well as some friends).
I think the real problem in the US is that everyone is left to do their tax paperwork from scratch every year when the IRS could send you a personalized return prefilled that you then claim the deductions and credits you're due and account for any descrpenices (which sure, is what your W-2 is supposed to be, but it isn't really that, you still need to use the worksheets on the 1040 or pay someone/some software to do it for you; a prefilled 1040 would be a way better system).
It also doesn't account for the huge variations in state taxes. Many states have income taxes, some are reciprocal with nearby states and others aren't, the deductions and credits and even what is taxable is all different. The whole thing is a mess. Then lord help you if you live in a state with local income taxes or one where your local taxes are different than school taxes(like PA) and the whole thing is a half day exercise in frustration to complete and you're still left wondering if you did it right.
If you set up your withholding right, you shouldn’t ever owe taxes when it’s time to file.
Thing is, here in Germany you don't even get to make the mistake of setting up your withholdings wrong if you're a regular employee. I don't think it's even possible to end up owing the state money if you're not self-employed or have considerable capital investments (which is rare for regular employees, which is probably its own issue ...).
If you live in the USA then the government didnt decide to keep making it worse, the people did.
GOP wrote the last tax plan and they're about to write the new one.
This is why I don't blame the politicians. I blame the people
Democracy is dead in the digital age. It's a non-functional and corrupt system incapable of representing or addressing the majority's actual needs properly. The US has fallen before many European democracies, but they will crumble under the weight of AI-powered digital disinformation and manipulation too.
The people are partially to blame, but let's be real, the voting system practically guarantees voter disenfranchisement.
It's how the US has ended up with the far right, and right-lite-maybe-a-little-good-stuff-but-mostly-capitalism-status-quo party duopoly.
This government doesn't deserve our tax dollars. Theyve made it clear they're funneling as much as possible straight to the billionaires.
Just don't pay.
And what would that do?
They already run a deficit, so they'll run a bigger deficit. Printing money is a flat tax on everyone. So not paying taxes is just applying a flat tax on others.
Plus you get to go to jail and cost me money to support you there.
I'm all for effective protest, but this doesn't seem to be it.
I'm getting a $10,000 refund for federal income tax (overestimated when paying my estimated taxes), but I owe $9,500 for Californian income tax. <_<
