Four Passengers Die in Burning Tesla After Electronic Doors Seemingly Won't Open
Four Passengers Die in Burning Tesla After Electronic Doors Seemingly Won't Open
Four people died after a Tesla crashed and burst into flames, while a fifth person narrowly escaped after a bystander broke open a window.
This happened in Toronto on October 24th
Why isn't there a manual mechanism for the door? Why didn't the passengers use an emergency glass hammer? Why isn't there an emergency release for the door?
I'd expect that the passengers may not have known about the emergency releases. It's also possible the releases failed, but all of them?
The article does a poor job of mentioning that those releases are standard to the vehicle. It's discussed elsewhere in this thread too, where they also provided the Model Y's manual.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C7-88A3-4695-987E-0E00025F64E0.html
When my friend was riding in a tesla they just assumed the emergency latch was the proper way to open the door and pulled that one instead, didn't even see the button.
Edit: also note, some model Ys don't have that rear emergency one. Guess you could climb out of the car using the trunk latch.
It would be crazy sci-fi villian if Musk had mobile access to everyone's Tesla and he is just killing off customers he doesn't like by doing shit like refusing to unlock the doors.
I mean if there's electronics that control the speed and steering he could just force people to drive straight into a wall at full speed
As if this is hard to believe....
Explain to me how the engineers aren't guilty of manslaughter?
Look, I lasted one semester at engineering school, washed all the way out almost immediately. I still had to write a 10-page case study on an engineering failure, and the one I chose was the McDonnell-Douglas DC-10 cargo door failures. They teach this shit in failing community colleges in purple states. The buck stops with the PE that signed the plans. Drag his ass into criminal court. The person who allowed this design to go to production does not need to be free.
There are no PEs signing off on "consumer products," or even little things like airplanes.
(Seriously, PEs are only relevant in engineering fields where design is easily governed by standards, such as HVAC and civil.)
There are absolutely engineers (with or without PE licenses, I'm not sure if that's necessary in aerospace) signing off on airplanes, even after they're built. For a mechanic to make a major modification or repair to an airframe or power plant it needs to be approved somehow, either covered by the airplane's original Type Certificate and detailed in the maintenance manual, covered in a supplemental type certificate (STC), or they can work with an aeronautical engineer to design and approve the repair. I have forgotten the exact line between "you can get an A&P IA to approve this skin patch plate" and "You need to either call an AE to design a repair for this but it might be cheaper to buy a whole wing."
The people who design the Tesla cars are not engineers. They're a bunch of tech geeks who think they're engineers.
I mean, ask yourself this why is. Every single automobile that exists today with the exception of the Tesla can handle rain and car washes with absolutely no issues and yet Teslas have to have a special button to close off certain parts of the car so that the air intake doesn't get too wet otherwise the car ends up stinking horribly of mildew.
They won't because this would require a trial where rich people wouldn't benefit, which is a waste of government resources, which goes against the Department of Government Efficiency's goals. More efficient to throw these poor souls' families under the bus.
Where's the Safety FMEA! Show me the FMEA!
Risk 3452.7: feature, door. Function, opens during fire, failure mode: won't open during fire, trapping people inside. Cause: the darn things are electronic! So if the battery fails in a big ass fire with people inside, those fuckers are gonna cook real good! Engineering controls in place to prevent the failure mode: 200,000 units delivered in time! As in it took time to deliver the units. Risk rank: 😉 it's Frank! 😄 My name's Frank! Not rank!
Well I'm glad we took time to mitigate these risks.
Meanwhile, actual autonomous vehicle companies actually perform FMEDA.
Further investigation shows that three of the four had recently posted mean things about Elon Musk on Xitter. A representative from the company issued the following statement. "It is unfortunate that the fourth passenger, who was seemingly innocent of blasphemy, chose to associate with the guilty parties. Sometimes collateral damage has to occur in our attempt to cleanse the population."
The Elon Musk-owned automaker has a troubling history of owners getting locked in their cars without power. Some of these cases may be down to user error, since most Teslas come with manual release levers.
Of course, let's blame the users 🙄
most Teslas come with manual release levers.
MOST?
Yea the cheapest ones skipped the manual release for the back doors. Gotta deliver maximum value to shareholders!
Now, now, remember correlation is not causation. Maybe it's not the unintuitive design; maybe a disproportionate number of idiots buy Teslas?
I don't want to be a dick but not using the mechanism to open them is user error.
But it does also sound like they aren't very well placed in some models. I feel like the manual release being the same as any car would make sense. As a fucking standard door handle.
I assume the no power locking is an anti theft thing. But if you're in the car already just provide a handle.
I will be a dick: this is one of those imbeciles teck-bro takes, always comming with excuses for big tech "but actualy.. "
If you design a door handle and people cannot open it: your design is shit. Point.
This was stupid when apple did it with the 'you're holding the phone wrong, idiot', it is criminal when it is done on a security feature.
Opening a Rear Door with No Power
You can open a rear door manually (if equipped) in the unlikely situation in which Model Y has no power:
- Remove the mat from the bottom of the rear door pocket.
- Press the red tab to remove the access door.
- Pull the mechanical release cable forward.
Note
Not all Model Y vehicles are equipped with a manual release for the rear doors.
Opening the front doors seems easy enough in the user manual, but opening the back doors requires you to remove a hidden panel then pull a cable, but not all versions of the car even have that hidden panel. Assuming the one in this article did, the car owner would need to give a little safety briefing to every passenger if you want to expect them to know how to open the door. And I'm really not sure what you're expected to do if you have a kid in a carseat in the back.
I heard Teslas are supposed to have manual release latches inside.
In any case, doors should always be manual anyway. This isn't the first time this happened and I'm surprised there isn't a regulation for this yet.
If we investigated car accidents like we did plane accidents we’d probably have banned them by now.
Investigators arrive on scene. Immediately notice how the infrastructure was designed for gridlock rush hour where nothing is moving. Are appalled that the only safety training the motorists received was completed 20 years ago and never refreshed. Dismayed that these circumstances are permitted in densely populated areas.
We'd probably have high speed rail too instead of a vast expanse of highways
The ones in the rear are hidden under a mat in the door.
https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modely/en_us/GUID-AAD769C7-88A3-4695-987E-0E00025F64E0.html
The model X requires you to remove the speaker grill to manually open the door.
You know, nice and intuitive.
The BMW manual door release is pulling the handle twice. This kind of negligence is insane and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration should slap them with a punitive fine and a mandatory recall.
Oh Elon is definitely gonna kill that department.
They do have manual release latches, but if you have never used them they might be hard to find. Especially in the panic of a burning car.
Really vehicle electronic doors should operate the same way they (usually?) do in buildings - in case of power loss they default to unlatched.
Have you looked at teslas manual for the back doors. Some are behind panels that have to be removed. You are not doing that well burying alive.
Power loss isn't necessarily a good choice even in a traditional ICE car with a battery, let alone one with a bigass EV battery.
Because it makes it super easy to break into a car (pop the hood and unplug two connectors) AND very likely will remain charged throughout much of the fire.
No. The answer is you have fucking manual locks and door handles that don't require you to pry open a panel.
and I'm surprised there isn't a regulation for this yet.
Don't be. Expect any existing regulations to be rolled back soon.
There definitely needs to be a way for people outside the car to open it. People involved in accidents are often incapacitated.
They do, but only in the front.
The only reason to use the button is that when you press it, it lowers the window slightly so that it clears the door trim when you open it (the windows are frameless).
Although, I don't see why that couldn't have been integrated into a single mechanism rather than having two separate controls for the same function.
Absolutely terrible design if the window needs to be lowered on a frameless door before it can be opened.
My 2007 Subaru Impreza had frameless windows that don't have this problem. The window makes a pressure seal against a gasket that does not impede the operation of the door in any way.
Oh ok. Well that's a really shitty design then!
"seemingly"
Ye, it seemed like it so we just decided we'd rather burn alive than to actually try opening the door.
News titles sometimes
Worried about libel, it is very likely that someone like Musk would sue.
If they said "It was the fault of Tesla that these people are dead" without proof and without it being a quote from someone else, they can be sued pretty easily.
Authorities are still investigating the crash and fire. But the details that we have so far implicate to some degree the electronic doors used by Tesla and other automakers, which require power to open.
I'd like to see Tesla do that because afterwards the court of public opinion will eat them alive!
Always have an emergency hammer in your car to break a window
I have a Civic with a manual door handle, but after reading your comment ... I think I'm going to get one to leave in the car just in case.
Should your car ever wind up submerged in water a hammer could come in handy. Make sure it's a "break glass" type hammer, which has a point. Thick tempered glass is surprisingly strong.
The spring-loaded kind are a lot easier to use in a cramped car and by people with less upper body strength. However, those won't work on newer cars with dual-pane or laminated glass
I've seen people say that emergency window hammers don't work with Tesla windows as they're laminated in current models.
Would that work in a car that purports to have bulletproof windows?
Only the tesla truck claims to be bullet proof. This happened in a model y and the 5th person in the car narrowly survived because a bystander smashed the window.
Hmm yeah, didn't think of that
Something pointed would be way better, doesn't even have to be big
Many are built into USB adapters for the old cigarette lighter style of plug, so if you've got a car with one of those plugs you can slot it in and if you ever need it you pop it out, put the plug to the window and slam, shatters right away, don't need that much force or space at all
Why cant’t the doors be manual on an EV?
Not cool enough for someone whose brain stopped developing at 15
Than you wouldnt look smart when a person sitting in your ev doesnt know how to open the door, and you smugly grin and show how stupid they look for not spending 30min on youtube and looking at videos how to open ev doors.
Of course they can, but then you don't get those slick flush handles. Ain't that a thing worth dying for?
Think I read they can, but it's in a special non obvious place. So they probably didn't know or didn't find it
I can think of only a few situations where you'd want to get out of a car quickly, where you'd have enough time to look under all the matte covers to find a manual door release switch that may or may not be installed. A fire is certainly not one of them. At the very least shouldn't they be equipped with a Nothammer...?
I've seen it said elsewhere that these don't work on the windows of current Tesla models as they're laminated.
Hammers aren't ideal, they take force, knowing how to strike, they could shatter glass in your eye.
All of this shit is easily avoided by a fucking handle on the fucking door.
A lot of newer cars have stronger glass that even these or the spring-loaded kind can’t break.
tesla gonna tesla so I assume they are as dangerous as can be.
For the rest? There is always (?) one window that isn't reinforced. So that CAN be an issue if your cabin is significantly damaged. But otherwise? It is a problem to find in a high adrenaline emergency and you SHOULD be aware which window to smash, but you are 3-6 smacks away from being out.
Everyone in my family has one of those in their car. Unfortunately most of them are buried under 100 things in the center console.
Is there an advantage to such an electronic door opener? If they have to include a manual release anyways, it really doesn't seem like they'd save space.
I guess, there might be novelty to just pressing a button, but not burning alive is also quite a cool feature.
Just a button to press!
Emergency release can be hidden behind the speaker cover!
Why is it Lemmy is okay with Outrage culture when it targets Tesla/SpaceX/Apple, yet criticized else where?
So reading these comments most people don't understand that many cars have electronic doors for several valid design reasons and yet all I have seen have manual overrides. Tesla as many other cars without window trims have to lower the glass before you can open the door. Most if not all cars even German makes do this electronicly but like my Tesla, have a manual handle that mechanicly drops the glass windows panel so you can open normally.
Both my Tesla and friends VW Benzin(Gas) car som 15 years ago use the same system... If the car have no trim and electronic windows, you also have this design issue, which extends this to ALL car brands.
But yea let's throw reason out the window and yell "Tesla bad!!!"...
How if it is true some models don't have the manual override (and that might include none Tesla cars if there indeed is no regulation that mandates it) I feel bad for the people not knowing or the safety ratings ignoring this oversight.
I can just say, mine does and is mentioned in the safety rating used in EU.
How the fuck is being sad about preventable deaths “outrage culture”?
Why does stoposto promote Shitty Post Culture?
I think it's more like
Car on fire PANIC!!! OH SHIT I can't just pull this door handle to get out. Oh God it's so hot, what's happening ... (Get disoriented) ... Trying to find a way out still. A series of steps with a hidden release has to happen - hope you knew that before you climbed in.
Yeah many cars do have electronic doors, but they can be easily opened without electricity in a simple way. Yank the handle.
For some reason Tesla thought that was a bad idea. It's stupid, I know they should have broken a window but when you're panicking going on years of experience opening car doors you're going to try to open them the way you know how.
So, yeah, it's not just because it's a Tesla - it's because it's a dangerous and dumb engineering choice that they made which puts people's lives in danger unnecessarily.
Many people in my Tesla have janked the emergency handle, rather than clicking the button to get out without any emergency, there isn't any Door handle, there is the emergency handle... Which kinda proves my point and your outrage comment proves you haven't even been in a Tesla yet comment on "it's bad design".
Same kind of comments from people against seatbelts when they were introduced. "It's not the standard and people will burn in their cars" without seeing or trying a seatbelt.
It very much is because it's a Tesla because my point about Tesla not being the only car which use electric windows control pre opening the door. Yet people hating on "EV needs power to get out" failing to realise that many Gas powered vehicles require the same thing. Some even implemented explosives that need to push the door off to be able to get out.
If there was a burning car and I had to open your Tesla's door from the outside to save you, you're dead because I wouldn't be able to figure out how to use the handle, regardless of whether the thing was still powered or not.
I have had many people ride in my Tesla and most of them opened the door by pulling the emergency handle... By instinct. So great job reading a headline and commenting without ever being in a Tesla, calling something you have never seen "bad design".
Some kind of argument this group deals with when people say " busses/trains don't work [instead made up thing they have never seen]"
Great job furthering the cause or any change at improving anything.
Why is it Lemmy is okay with Outrage culture when it targets Tesla/SpaceX/Apple, yet criticized else where?
Is that a serious question?
Oof, this one sounds serious 🙄
It is. I very much enjoy fuckcars and push for public transport when possible. However I hate the traditional car companies more for lying and burying alternatives to ICE more than I do the one company that in 10 years changed a stagnant Gas/Benzin polluting product which got bigger and bigger to a now Electric alternatives. That includes the side effect in my city for electric busses which were not a thing before said company and the change in zeitgeist around EV vs ICE.
So yes I'm in fuck cars and I am saying while I hate the current CEO of the company, I also recognize their success have pushed and improved my local public transport system and city (which in 2030 will ban all ICE cars from its center with a much larger push towards public alternatives at the same time).
How many shares of TSLA do you own?