I think you overestimate the amount of left leaning people in the U.S.
Who said Lefts didn't vote for Harris?
Are you manufacturing this? Where are the exit polls?
Might a better reason for why Fascism won with this election be that Democrats, including Biden, Harris, the DNC, and the consulting class, failed to campaign to their own base, and even more than their base since most Americans, Dems and Reps, approve of progressive policies?
Projection man
Biden got ~81m votes in 2020, Harris only got ~67m. >14m fewer people voted for her.
Trump also dropped by ~2m, only getting ~72m this time around vs. ~74m in 2020.
Trump didn’t win because of a giant right-wing national shift, he won because of voter apathy on the left.
I have to admit that I haven't delved into the exit polls and analyzed which social groups migrated right or not.
But one thing that's different about the 2024 election compared to 2020 is that COVID wasn't happening to the same degree. There were a ton more mail-in ballots 2020 due to social distancing, which helped both parties as a bump in votes.
Why use 2020 as a data point though? Why not 2016? Why not 2012 and 2008? Might those elections be slightly different because a 1-in-100-year pandemic wasn't happening?
If you compare those numbers, does the Dems' numbers compare to those elections?
I want to say someone on Lemmy already posted the numbers recently in one of these posts. From what I recall, Dems' votes returned close to pre-COVID levels albeit a degree lower, yet Reps' votes were above pre-COVID levels. Why?
Might the explanation be the societal shift towards the right?
And how can you not see the national shift to the right in how the Democrats speak to rallies and voters? We are considerably more right-wing as a country than ever in the recent decades. This election was a Republican primary with how Kamala ran on pre-Trump conservative values and policies.
Maybe apathy exists on the Left because it is increasingly the case that Democrats don't represent them anymore.
Leftist here. I voted for Kamala. All the leftist media I consumed argued for voting for Kamala. All the leftists I knew vote for Kamala.
What are you talking about?
Leftists are so insignificant that we don't need to make any concessions to them but so powerful that they are responsible for any Democratic loss.
Leftists are just about the only group that will go around saying they "won't vote" if there isn't a candidate making enough concessions to them. Leftists are a small group but they are enough they could sway an election if they came out and made their voices heard by voting instead of just holding signs and yelling. But getting that to happen isn't as simple as just saying you're against the genocide, because Harris did that and it wasn't enough. It isn't as simple as supporting unions, because she did that and it wasn't enough. It isn't as simple as supporting rights for women, minorities, and LGBTQ, because she did that and it wasn't enough.
The right isn't stupid enough to believe that they can get their oligarchy without winning elections, but belief in incremental change is fundamentally incompatible with a lot of leftist ideology.
There were a few people on the left (with followings on social media) advocating for third party votes because Kamala wouldn’t say that she was going to stop sending money to Israel.
Post election, it looks like third party votes didn’t spoil anything.
All the people who didn't vote against fascism.
Then we're not talking to you. But a lot of people stayed home and that's a fact
I’m over pointing fingers and playing holy than thou.
The people who plan to build a Hungarian-style autocratic government are in power now, and they’re hoping the left is exhausted and tired of fighting this shit for a decade.
This shit is going to be dangerous, and we’re going to have to motivate people to push back hard than even. Pointing fingers just divides us and makes us even weaker.
That's a bummer because progressives couldn't be bothered to stop an erasure of minorities and lgbt alongside a subjugation of women.
Quite simply, either you align with them or you can get fucked.
At least that's how it's currently playing out.
The DNC would rather lose with a neoliberal than win with a progressive. If they want to get there shit together they have to win with the working class and ordinary people.
They can't be elitist centrists. They'll lose every election if they do. The future is now old man
If they go further left they lose every moderate or right leaning Democratic voter don't they? Why would you want your voter base to get smaller
To attract people who took one look at this steaming pile of economic dystopia, the parties that both support it, and walked away.
I'm not even talking about the loud ones that claimed to walk away but voted Harris out of conscience and harm reduction.
For someone that wants to live in society and not a bunch of rugged individuals at each other's throats for oligarch scraps, it is very difficult to look at this cesspool and have hope or engage without feeling filthy and even more hopeless.
That could change if today's neoliberals were supplanted by anti-corporatists messaging that it isn't government's job to get out of the market's way, but to regulate and straightjacket the market economy into serving society as the lowly tool of society that an economy ought to be.
The people demanding there be winners and losers in an embarrassingly wealthy society ought to go live in the forest with nothing but a knife to see if they win or lose. A society supports one another.
Hogwash. The left-right split is way less significant today than the populist-establishment split. Of all the candidates in the 2020 primary, only Bernie, the furthest left, had high approval ratings amongst Republican voters. This isn't the 1990s.
Democrats continuing to blame everyone but themselves, as usual.
The Democrats could have run a turd as a candidate with the slogan "it'll be a shit show" and I'd still have voted for them with no regrets, because I understand that fascism is an existential threat. If the Democrats are to blame in any way, it's because they didn't try to get people to understand that OH WAIT THEY DID.
Should the Democrats have run a better candidate and a better campaign? Obviously yes. Is it their fault that voters were willing to let a fascist win? Not even a little.
That democrats weren't even willing to budge on their support for genocide means that they don't actually mind fascism. They can scream on and on about how dangerous trump is, but when they're kissing dick cheney's ass and trying to court other such "moderate" fascists, then they're just full of shit. So yes, it is largely the fault of democrats, who are the only other viable party in the country, for not fighting fascism. They set themselves up as the only solution and then failed to get the votes. Reminder that this is the same party boosting the campaigns of far-right candidates just so they can point at how crazy their opponents are. All they're accomplishing is helping out the fascist cause, which again, democrats don't seem to mind based on their actions.
Prepare to lose again 2028 with this attitude.
I've reached across the aisle to vote for a conservative for 3 elections now against Trump. It would be nice if centrists and conservatives did the same.
If anything non-voter related is to blame, it's the global economy which has shifted every single developed country away from the party in charge. But that doesn't excuse the non-voters.
Now let's get Ukraine everything we possibly can and put as much pressure on Israel as possible.
You would, but millions of Americans wouldn't. Those Americans act out of self-interest, and the economy was the biggest pain point with most voters this past election.
Instead of catering to the middle class, what Dems' base has been historically, Harris campaigned to business owners with tax incentives/breaks.
Democrats failed. Hell, Harris could have even lied just as Obama did to get Democrats and moderates to believe that she represents them. But she didn't!
So, what's the takeaway here? Next time we should nominate better voters? Good luck with that. I think we should nominate candidates who can energize the voters we have.
I'm with you that fascism is alive and well in the states, no doubt.
But you have to see that years of "fascist" accusations from anyone even slightly left has watered down any impact that language might have had. Most people who are and have been on the receiving end of that accusation just roll their eyes when they hear the word - regardless if it's true or not. It comes off to them as a "blue hair" reee-ing.
Just letting you know most people don't take it with the same gravity any more. To most people "real" fascism was a 1940's thing, and fascism now is just an insult throw around by keyboard warriors and "SJWs" - whom they find annoying and pathetic.
The term, however appropriate, doesn't affect people's political decisions as much as you would think.
I did my job. The democrats had one job too, and they failed.
It's funny cause back when Biden was VP I kept bringing up how he was a terrible Democrat and we should stop making cute uncle Joe memes, cause he's actually a horrible person who has hurt a lot of people with his blind drug war. And when I would bring that up, the other leftists would downvote me and call me a right winger, because we're not allowed to criticize our own n side apparently.
So it's funny that the same people who used to downvote any criticism of "uncle Joe" are the ones that are now calling anyone a Nazi if they support the Democrats.
The left didn't vote against fascism, but also the center didn't. And the right, obviously.
I'm doing my part! I'm yelling at leftists on the internet!
Lmao lib shit tally:
Bullshit corporate media reference, check. Blaming the minority for the failure of the party, check Believing politics happens once every four years, check.
They share the blame, certainly, especially in depressing left-leaning turnout, but I think it was largely 'swing voter' twats sitting it out.
Suppose we'll find out when more detailed analysis of this utter fuck-up and handing the keys to one of the most powerful countries in the world to fascists is available.
Blaming the people instead of the wet rag they ran.
"Too radical"
"Not radical enough"
"Trump Lite"
"Didn't care about Trump voters"
"Another predicable establishment candidate"
"We didn't know her"
"All she said was she not the other guy"
"Didn't expose Trump enough"
"Joy bullshit! Where are the serious policies?"
"Elections are about feelings and she didn't have appeal"
"Supports the Gaza genocide"
"Didn't inspire pro-Israel voters"
"Failed border czar"
"Blue MAGA"
Everyone seems to think they know why Harris lost, and it's always "didn't do enough of what I like". It's boring and unhelpful.
Yep, that's why I used my totally meaningless non-swingstate vote for Cornel West.
The libs aren't actually mad about how people voted because the vast majority of votes don't matter. They're mad about the thought crime. They're mad about being exposed as politicians without principles who aren't even good politicians. They're mad that people don't like their dear leader. Libs like to see themselves are genoius thought leaders of some grand nation instead of just capitalist shills enabling fascism.
Maybe the left didn't vote because there was only right wing parties to vote from.
Extremely right wing - Republican
Slightly centre right - Democrats
The oligarchs’ vision for ‘choice’
There's some non-zero number of voters who planned to vote for Biden, couldn't find his name on the ballot, and subsequently filled in the only other name of a President they saw.
"Yeah, he did the job before, he's got experience..."
I did my part. I voted third party because BOTH PARTIES SUPPORT A FASCIST REGIME COMMITTING GENOCIDE WITH OUR TAX DOLLARS WHILE OUR OWN PEOPLE GO HOMELESS
Cry about it libs! I bet going further right and further ignoring your base will win in 2028! Might as well run Liz Cheney while you’re at it!
Yes that is the not voting against fascism the meme is talking about. You can label not doing your part as doing your part but it's still not doing your part.
Hey Micheal, corporate needs you to tell the difference between these two pictures.
We wanted to, but kept hearing that voting 3rd party was a "waste".
Disclaimer: I voted for the lesser fascist and don't support Stein.
48% of the popular vote went to Kamala.
Tell me more about this Libs didn't vote thing.
Well, Trump got fewer total votes than last election and still won. So there’s that.
They literally haven't counted all the votes yet.
To all the infallible unblemished champions of the proletarian revolution who are shitting on "libs":
According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary of Politics and Western Political Theory in the Face of the Future, this is the definition of liberalism:
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law.
In your own words, what do you think "lib" means? And if you're going with my cited textbook definition, what's so offensive to you about the tenets that are listed?
Either words' definitions matter or they don't, and if they don't, then none of what you say matters.
Probably not the type of person you are directing the question towards, however, to me "Liberal" when used as a genuine marker of someone's political philosophy is effectively someone who believes in the status quo, but with slightly more protections for individuals, or relatively minor changes to existing political processes. They refuse to believe that other market or political system options are worthy of attempting or simply do not consider them feasible.
As to the second part,
Either words’ definitions matter or they don’t, and if they don’t, then none of what you say matters.
Unfortunately, definitions change over time or simply aren't accurate, homosexual used to inaccurately be defined as "sexual orientation disturbance" for example. That definition of liberal also covers things like the ""Classical Liberalism"" movement as liberal, they believe in COMPLETE market deregulation and capitalist "anarchy", their version of "rights of the individual" is the rights of an individual to do whatever they want to when they have the money to do so, without allowing any government to intervene in any way. This can (and frequently does) include using money to discriminate against other people, that's something worth fighting against.
Also FWIW, "Neoliberal" is defined by Oxford Languages as "favoring policies that promote free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.", sometimes when people refer to "libs" they mean neoliberals, and yeah, deregulation and free-market capitalism has been tried, it sucks and deserves to be shat on.
- an anarchist
Codified capitalism, anarchism, republicanism, and socialism are liberal philosophies that find their roots historically in the enlightenment. "Lib" isn't the insult that tankies and MAGAs think it is.
FWIW, I advocate for democratic market socialism.
Generally it is used as a derogatory remark towards the flank of capitalist that often styles themselves 'leftist'.
In a very reductive sense it means if you're offended by being called it, then it means you.
In a very reductive sense it means if you're offended by being called it, then it means you.
Wannabe pejoratives usually are overly reductive.
I just think the tankies and MAGA types don't even know what it really means. Republicanism and Marxism are historically both liberal political philosophies that find their roots in the enlightenment.
I think they want to say "corporatist neoliberal", but it's too many syllables or requires too much thought. "Lib" makes for a nicer stone to throw.
I fucking hate shitlib dictionary lawyering.
Just say you're gonna fucking ignore what's happening.
dictionary lawyering
So words don't matter to you, got it.
Just say you're gonna fucking ignore what's happening.
I voted blue up and down the ballot in every election possible in my adult life since 2000, despite the corporatist fellating DNC. I've demonstrated. I've donated. I've written to congressmen. I was in a union earlier in my career.
I've been called worse than "shitlib". Try harder.
Fascism is always a populist movement, by the time it's on the ballot it's already too late.
The so called left created the conditions for Trump by being the lesser evil instead of being better.
Fuck that noise. Victim blaming bullshit.
Yeah... the dems are the victims, sure. /s
Those poow wittle democwats and their multi billion dollar super PACS...victims of the intolerant left! /s
stick wheel victim .jpg
The so called leftLiberals created the conditions for Trump by being the lesser evil instead of being better.Liberalism is right-wing. That's why we had two right-wing candidates who are slightly different levels of fascist.
It was Fascism vs. Fascism Lite
Democrats aren't great. At all. But to call them fascists is just ridiculous. They're just liberal capitalists.
Yeah, you have to scratch them first in the larval form.
It's asshats like you that put us here, congrats!
BluE MaGa amiright?
Don't get mad at me. It's not my fault the Democratic Party ignored a good portion of the country to pick up a handful of disaffected conservatives instead of courting any sort of progressive base. Which rightly blew up in their faces and helped make Harris deeply unpopular candidate to many.
Fucking Dick Cheney endorsed Harris. That easily pushed more left leaning people away from Harris. Dick Cheney, the guy who pushed the US to invade Iraq to get those pesky WMD's... And we're still dealing with the fallout of that decision.
You obviously don't understand what fascism is. I recommend Umberto Eco's essay "Ur-Fascism"as a good primer. Maybe read that before you make anymore ignorant comments like this one.
So why would you not vote fascism lite? If you have two viable choices, and one is a worse version of the other, what possible benefit do you get for not increasing the odds of the less bad one? Fascism lite is taking the foot off the accelerator on fascism, which gives more opportunities to correct course. Fascism full flavor is flooring the pedal, and only makes it harder to do that. Voting for neither does not reduce the chances of one of the two winning.
