This comment section is a shitshow and OP admits to being a troll. Locking this thread.
I mean it’s actually an interesting point though?
Men should be loved and cared for in a relationship too, not treated like shit by default.
I hope you aren't treated like shit by default.
I’m not by my partner. Never have been, that’s why I love her, she’s always been kind.
But she also carries some distrust and resentment towards mean-justifiably given trauma-that is sometimes directed at me, inadvertently I think. Which sucks and doesn’t make me feel great, but it also makes sense from her perspective and she’s not got an issue with me
Isn't that the status quo? I guess it's not really fathers to daughters, but most women I know went through some amount of "here's how to be a good wife" lessons from their mothers or family. I think women get a lot of "traditional gender roles" training that's mostly about being caretakers.
Usually people putting forth this kinda "women should learn how to care for their man" attitude are coming from a conservative "traditional family values" position.
Really, we should be teaching people how to ask about and learn the needs of their partner, and how to determine your own needs and communicate those to your partner. Basic emotional intelligence stuff. It doesn't have to be gendered at all.
I guess you're a man?
So am I.
Have you been treated like shit in your relationships? I'm sorry to hear that.
I have been treated by like shit by some women in relationships as well. Then I got out of those relationships.Come here so I can taze you
That's just estim on hard mode
Yes pls
Well, I'm certainly not gonna teach my daughter to trust boys. That will lead to places I don't even want to think about.
My guy, the motivation is right but the thinking is wrong.
You teach your daughter how to spot manipulative behavior, teach her how to stand up for and protect herself, teach your daughter how to respect herself AND others, teach her how to love herself AND others, teach her what a healthy relationship looks like...
Boys will be boys, they will be dumb and horny teenagers and they will try shit, even with the absolute best of dumb horny boy intentions, also teenage lesbians are quite keen on trying shit too. You need to teach them to spot the difference between their first love and someone telling them what they want to hear in order to go up their shirt.
I'm not gonna teach my daughters who they are or are not supposed to trust. Because I will never teach my children what they should think, but rather how to think for themselves. I will encourage them to only trust individuals that prove themselves trustworthy, but again, that's not my decision to make.
They're not extensions of me; they are distinct, individual human beings. So I certainly hope you will not teach her to be distrustful; that leads to misery and pain, all in the pursuit of something that doesn't belong to you and never will (her mind is her own, whether you like it or not).
The guy probably meant this in a misogininstic way but theres a reason why theres a male mental health crisis... not only are other people not taught how to treat men, men themselves dont know either
This. So many of our problems would be solved by saying that we love our sons and that we're proud of them.
Two things that I never heard from my Dad.
And he never heard them from his.
I don't fucking care. You find your son right now, look him in the eyes, tell him that you love him, and that you are proud of him.
Well one of main goals in life is not being like my dad. Long story(still ongoing somehow) but basically he ruined everything for us.
The day I realized that we don't even know how to treat each other was a wild day for me. My friend group has been complimenting and building up each other for a while now. It's amazing the change you'll see just by having one dude say to another, "Hey, nice shirt my guy!" or something similar.
We opened for a national band tonight so a bunch of my friends were there. After having done this for a few years then reading this thread, I'm amazed to see just how much positive masculinity we had going on. There were compliments, talking up guys to others outside of just being a wingman (there was at least one case of being a wingman, too), lots of bro hugs, and a lot of genuinely happy guys.
It's a hard thing to get going, but I'm glad we started doing it.
Oh, I know how to treat myself! I like to stand really close to the mirror and say all the things my parents used to say to me.
All people should be taught how to treat others regardless of their gender.
Exactly. Everybody should be taught to leave me the fuck alone.
More than that, people need to learn to read men. "Yeah I'm fine, don't worry" is often a very quiet cry for help from a gender which is traditionally taught to show only strength and permanence and to never show outward signs of "weakness".
It's nothing short of traumatic, the upbringing where you don't get to cry.
TL:DR Fuck the patriarchyI've given my kids tasers and shown them your comment. That should do it /s
Yes! Thank you. Not that people don't have certain issues that may be somewhat gender specific but respect in general is first and foremost when it comes to how to treat others.
Violent and stupid response. Not even funny.
Something like 1/3 of women are victims of rape. This is the world women are forced to endure and try to survive in. That's the point
Idk, Johnny Bravo probably would agree with you
"A nonzero amount of women have a tendency to demand respect and support from their partner but not give any in return, and some women actually need to be taught that relationships are a two way street, so make sure your daughters know that because not all of them will" -- person who's been burned a lot
"Anyone who says that is probably a predator" -- OP for some god damn reason
As others have pointed out, the guy is likely coming from a misogynistic viewpoint.
That's not a guarantee -- assuming intent rarely pays -- and it's certainly not an excuse for you to threaten everyone else in this comment section who acknowledges possible misogyny but points out that the general sentiment is valid with a taser too.
Is the top guy somebody we should know or is he just creepy because of what he said? I do think it's important to know how to deal with the opposite sex regardless of gender, personally, I would never just throw a child into the world to figure it out, and teaching wariness is just a part of that.
Taken out of twitter context, his message is actually completely valid imo. Everyone should learn how to treat everyone with respect.
He's a verified twitter user. I think that says enough.
Unironically can't believe people are paying to tell on themselves these days
As a father to two girls: When and if it comes to them dating boys (or girls for that matter), yes I'm going to give them some pointers. Like:
Ask them what they want! Everyone's different.
Be nice to them and expect them to be nice to you.
Talk to them and expect them to talk to you (at least a little bit; everyone's different).
If you love them, let them know you do.(And if they don't reciprocate, you can always come back home and regroup.)
(edited for formatting)
I mean it is weird that society expects men to treat women a certain, positive way (which I'm on board with) while basically saying woman can treat men however they want tbh. Men can be victims too but nobody gives a fuck. This response is absolute garbage.
Bottom line: men and woman need to treat each other with respect and dignity.
Edit: nice kool aid man meme bro. Stay mad.
The entire way our society is structured is telling women how to treat men. For too long it told men they can treat women however they want which is why boys need to be taught while girls can learn it from literally everywhere around them. If anything girls should be taught to not let men treat them however they want.
For too long it told men they can treat women however they want
This is demonstrably false, as we have certain narratives that are literally millennia old (latin literature) about courtship, romantic gestures, protection and all the other stuff usually associated with how men should treat women. Usually this is some form of protection/care for a lower/weaker being, but it is absolutely a way society has been telling men how to tell women for centuries.
Bingo.
The point of the meme is that the guy is butthurt that from his perspective, no one has taught women how to treat men, yet he fails to realize we live in a society where the messaging for women is everywhere.
Girls and women most definitely need to be taught not to tolerate shitty behavior which is much more prevalent to them because men in our male-orientated society aren't taught how to treat people. go out there. Earn. Be a good provider. Your value is only as much as what you produce. You need to have big shiny things to showcase your value. whispers society Don't worry about your emotional development, that's not important. A woman will straighten that out for you later
The guy above called me angry. I'm not really. Just disappointed that men are just finally starting to clue in that a lot of the media out and society's views on men do not have male best interests at heart.
We can do better. I'm angry that we aren't, and that the change is so painfully slow.
I'm an angry optimist.
I feel like society kind of does that for them? Not 100%, but most women's magazine have a "how to please your man" section. Grooming for women is usually around looking young and pretty and feminine to men, hiding things or pushing/squeezing things for the best shape. While men's story tend to be about self discovery, women's media (until recently) was not telling women same message. Media for awhile was heavily focused on women being content as home makers. You gotta learn how to look to get a man after all and then have to do the house making to keep them. Keep yourself young and pretty so he doesn't get a new model! You don't like giving head? Or having men cum on your face? Oh, sorry, 90% of sexual media is geared towards men and their desires, and if you wanna keep him, you need to perform. Hell, some men don't even think women can get pleasure from sex. Advertisements were geared towards being a "Good wife," not a happy woman (unless you're chuffed at being a wife). We have recent comics/memes about this. We laugh at them ("I was a scientist" VS "I raised 5 (all male) scientists"), but that's in certain circles, these were not created to be jokes. There's not as much as the reverse baked into society. Men didn't have to learn how to treat a woman for, like, the bulk of our history. I think there's a lot of focus on men attracting women (and extreme pressure on them to be the main providers), but not necessarily how to treat them. Women tend to do that with sons because, until fairly recently, no one gave a shit if you beat your family every night, rape within marriage was perfectly legal. Women couldn't get a bank account without a man's permission. In some countries women can't leave the house without a man period. Society was teaching men that women were property, and it was usually only the mom in the man's life that could say, "Hey kiddo, when you get a wife please don't beat her." if she wasn't the kind of woman to say you should beat her.
This is not to say men don't also suffer. Toxic masculinity has made a place where men have power, but lack the freedom to be vulnerable. Their mental health isn't taken seriously because "men don't cry." Men don't get "hurt," men don't get sad, lonely unless you're "weak." Don't cry, because you'll be told to "get a tampon." Women who drank the kool-aid uphold this as well. Even toxic spaces that some men make for themselves (manosphere) are incredibly harmful to the men they say they're there to uplift. All they focus on is how to get women, how to "catch one" with the bait usually a man's wealth, or apperence. They don't talk about how to find a loving partner, how men can look out for abuse, how men can protect themselves. Those men say women have until 25, they're the gate keepers of "sex." They make it seem like men and women are diametrically opposed
foes. I think there's a huge lack in actual helpful male focused media. Like, I say the manosphere is awful, but I don't readily know another space that could help men with their issues in less toxic ways. How many men have heard "just be yourself" or "work out" to solve their problems? When that's all you hear, someone telling you something is better than nothing.TL;DR: I think men have the inverse problem. Women tend to have to be their own advocate for their treatment, but get the freedom to be cared for, heard, and have their mental health taken seriously. Men have the "power," but not the freedom of expression, but a lot of that is the result of a society they created. It's not so much "fathers need to teach their daughters how to treat men" (because I don't think men are taught to even let women know that they have feelings, let alone telling their daughters), it's that we need to allow men to be vulnerable and have people be supportive of them. We all teased the men for their alpha boot camps. Like women's retreats aren't weird either? I specifically remember a video of a man going "I am a man" while pushing some barrier and then crying in the man's arms. He was ridiculed (and I was laughing too, I'm not innocent). Why? Why was that funny. He didn't fall or do something dumb. He went to a program to find himself in some way, broke through a little, and was punished for it. Walz's son is currently being hsrrased for crying by both men and women. What man wants to "feel" in that environment?
Your reply is really well thought out, and the crux of why I posted this meme in the first place (other than that I am a shitlord).
There are A. LOT. of shitty men out there. Tons. I hold a lot of disdain for my own sex, because the majority of them are caught up in the toxic masculinity paradigm and don't even know it, or worse, refuse to acknowledge that it is indeed toxic. Even the male-orientated support communities often twist into some Jordan Petersen-esque Dutch oven. We have a lot of figuring out to do if we want to be healthy humans, and pave the way for future men to be healthy too. We need to be vulnerable with other men, and actually talk about thing bothering us. We need to build friendships that are built on more than just one shared hobby. The list goes on and on, and we have our work cut out for us
I agree with you, in that women don't need to know how to treat men, because, like you say, it's rammed down their fucking throats every time they turn around. What women need it to see the value in themselves, and stand up for it. Hit the bricks if he's a twatwaffle. Men should do the same.
Finally, should you find yourself in a relationship, you need to take a hard look at your baseline assumptions. For instance, your partner is not there to make your life better, but rather compliment the already good life you supposedly have going on. They aren't responsible for your emotional wellbeing. A good partner will certainly care about this and want to foster this, but it is not into them for you to be happy in the relationship.
Well said and very balanced
Oh, no it is. I'm an agent of chaos.
Whatever you have to tell yourself.
The reply speaks more loudly than the original comment.
Someone call an ambulance... BUT NOT FOR ME!
Better prep the burn ward!
Unless I'm supposed to know the first guy for something, this is either nonsensical or fucking stupid in some way i haven't thought of yet.
I think a lot of women get taught men are the enemy and that all bad things in life come from men and the patriarchy. But that's all they really get taught.
It's like when the kids in south park get taught about STDs and how if you don't wear a condom you get STD. So the girls avoid the boys until they wear condoms 24/7. There is a lesson in there but if you only teach them something that impacts much less than a percentage of 1% you going to miss a whole lot of the puzzle and it's going to fuck you up before you even start.
I'm not going to argue which gender is the bigger victim of toxic masculinity. The bodies are stacked too high for me to see over. But please don't say it impacts 'much less than a percentage of 1%.'
Like, my father used to tie up my dog and whale on it with a belt when he was angry and that's probably the least fucked-up-thing-your-dad-did story of my peer group. If you don't think it's affected you, you are either very lucky, or somebody who is long overdue to talk it out.
this might be the most bullshit statement i've ever heard in my life
from the day they're born, girls are raised to submit to, obey, and make themselves the property of men and change their name to his. that's only a few things in a long list of stupid bullshit that women have to deal with. i'm not surprised in the slightest when incels whine about "women aren't throwing themselves at me every minute of every day!!!" but it's never not funny
I don’t know what part of the world you grew up in, but that hasn’t been my experience at all. All the women I know have been brought up to know this is the old way, and any man who thinks along those lines is a man to avoid.
This experience exists and I'll fight against it where I can. But it isn't universal and relationships go both ways. If you can't even conceive of an equal relationship between a man and a woman, then I can't conceive of you as a feminist. It's just misandry at that point.
dont know why youre downvoted
Because the point the dude is making is valid if you take the misogyny out of it. That guy might be an absolutely sexist piece of shit I dont know.
But there are some very entitled women in the world, some women just dont realise that everything women DESERVE is a 2 way street. Ive broken up with women because they expect respect, gratitude and support from their partner in everything they do but give none of it in return.
I was a project car guy for a great many years and I had a girlfriend who complained about every dollar and hour I spent on it (despite me also doing the servicing and maintenance on her car) would say things like "When are you going to grow up?" Whenever I got excited about something for the car and (the moment I decided to break up with her) was when I finally buttoned up the last details on an engine swap and went into the house and said "Its FINISHED!" and she turned to a girlfriend she had over and said "Awww look, he thinks he is manly"
Now Imagine if my girl had come out to me and my mates working on the car and said "I got my hair done!" and I turned to the boys and said "Awwww look, she thinks she is pretty." If I told her "I dont know why you bother" when she tried to cook or continually criticised her shopping and spending on clothes and makeup...
Men in a relationship deserve to be treated like a full and equal partner with feelings too.
I've been screamed at a lot for daring to sit at the short edge of a rectangular table while in the presence of a man. Does that count for father-daughter lessons? This thread is wild.
I think you know why.
