What do you think of the term "short king" as a term that's supposed to champion body positivity for men?
Body positivity is such a strange concept to me. There's efforts to reclaim words while simultaneously calling them bad if used as an insult. Ideally, people wouldn't be offended by someone describing their body with common descriptors, but socially there is so much value attributed to certain body types that it's almost impossible to avoid having an emotional response of some kind to various descriptors.
For example, It's not bad to be fat, but calling someone "fat" is almost universally considered a bad thing. The same definitely seems to go for the idea of being "short."
I'm asking this question because I can't put my finger on why but something seems to be different about the use of the term "short" from the use of the term "fat." I think that part of it is how, to me at least, the term "fat" is so generic and hard to nail down to a discrete definition, implying that the word really doesn't have a clear connection to reality. On the other hand, height is a single-dimensional number. You either are above a certain threshold, or you aren't.
I recently learned that May 6th to May 10th is "short king week" because it's 5'6" to 5'10" which then prompted me to search for the origins of "short king" and apparently the person most-credited with popularizing the term is Jaboukie Young-White who claims the term was meant to include all men under 6 feet tall. The average adult male height is 5'9" leaving men considered roughly average to be called "short" which is still considered an insult by many.
I dunno. As a term that was intended to champion body positivity compared with how the term is actually used, what do you think of "short king?"
I'm 5'6" and find the term childish and insulting. It's not the short part, it's the king part. I am not a king, I'm a regular guy working a regular job.
"Body positivity" is garbage. People should be honest and support healthy lifestyles. Twisting reality to make someone comfortable is detrimental to their physical and mental health.
I don't understand the reasoning but, across the board, it seems today's culture is very quick to accept literal delusions in place of reality for the sake of feelings and "mental well being".
I think that you have internalized a version of body positivity that lies on the most extreme end of what is meant by that phrase. Body positivity - be comfortable with who you are and do not put down on others due to their body.
The odds are that I am significantly fatter than you. The odds also favor that I am significantly stronger than you, even if you lift weights. I can also probably walk all day much farther than you can.
Would it be healthier if I lose body fat? Absolutely. Have I tried for 20 years to do that? Yes. I am not ignorant regarding nutrition. I am not lazy. I am not overall lacking willpower. I am fat but otherwise healthy.
Body positively means that my doctor treats my body fat as what it is - one aspect of my overall health. He does not assume that every problem I have is because I am fat, even though changing that would improve some aspects of my health.
Body positively also means that I am not going to hide when I go to the beach. I am going to go shirtless and enjoy myself. If you do not find me sexually attractive, that is fine. If you are going to shame or mock me for my body fat, then you are an asshole. If I catch wind of you mocking me, I will quietly estimate how many times your bodyweight I will deadlift on Monday. If you choose to mock the scars that cover parts of my body from extreme, life-saving surgery, I may feel the need to firmly educate you on exactly what sort of asshole you are.
Body positively often conjures the image of a morbidly obese girl on OnlyFans who lets people pay to watch her binge and intentionally get fatter while she says being purposefully inactive is just as healthy as hitting the gym. The real versions of that person are extremely rare, but their radicalism, vociferous nature, and platform make their voices much louder in comparison. Their argument is also easy to find flaw with and mock, so they get used as if they are a typical example of body positivity.
You are right in that the woman I describe above needs help and is not behaving in a safe or healthy way. I also understand why you might think that is the norm. She is not, though, and I would encourage you to look deeper at the meaning of the "movement."
The "you" above is generic and based on broad assumptions. You, the reader, might be stronger than me and have way more endurance than me. You also might be fatter than I am. The odds are very good that you are also not an asshole. My point was to call out variances from the norm as convenient examples, of which I have plenty in both directions.
I agree that we should strive for people to be healthy. But there's a lot of evidence to suggest that shame not only is ineffective but can actually have the opposite effect.
Besides, I think you're being pretty reductive. Health includes both physical and mental, we should take steps to improve both of these. And I get the sense that you specifically take issue with body positivity specifically around fat people, as I assume you don't think being short or tall is unhealthy. In which case, you're ignoring the economics of it (at least in America, there are a ton of government subsidies for corn, incentivizing businesses to load up our food with corn syrup).
The issue is complex and so would any solutions. At least in America, we need to deincentivize the production of unhealthy food, better access to healthcare, and cultural shifts as well. And I'm sure there's a whole lot I'm missing.
If you’re ashamed for being overweight, that’s something that should motivate you to lose the weight. Embracing being fat and blaming others is not healthy, it’s delusional.
There’s also a ton of government subsidizes for other fruits and vegetables. Don’t blame the government for your poor eating habits. Learn to prepare real food. It’s healthier, cheaper, and more abundant. You don’t need to deincentivize producing unhealthy food, you just need to choose not to eat it.
This culture of supporting people who are overweight is making us all lose sight of what a healthy lifestyle looks like. As generations spend less time working physically and more time sitting, our diets should be moving towards far less calories. Instead, we’re being made into nothing more than consumers who click a button to have bad food delivered to us while we sit on the couch.
The only complex issue is how we got here. It’s not complex to make healthier choices. I’d argue it’s easier than what we’re doing now. To quote Michael Pollan, “eat food, not too much, mostly plants”.
Body positivity" is garbage. People should be honest and support healthy lifestyles
Feels like you are falling in to the same critism trap that catches "Pride" events, lots of people say that they can be proud of lots of things, not nessecarily an indentity or sexuality.
But pride is more about not feeling shame for things you can't control. Body positivity is about way more than overweight people, but being happy of who you are regardless of any stigma.
It's not my place to say people should like "short kings", I truly couldnt care less about individuals liking or disliking a given term. I just feel your reasoning would be better built upon infantalizing without attacking people that are fidng zen outside of unfair cultural stigma.
sometimes you have to be a bit mentally ill to get mentally well so if thinking naruto would be proud of you for brushing your teeth is what gets you to brush your teeth well grab that toothbrush dattebayo
If calling yourself a short king lets you kick your insecurities ass well then here's your crown my dude 👑
Lol, that's how I kicked smoking. I had already secured a (cheap) loan for my bachelor, but I convinced my self that I could not afford it unless I quit smoking (and thus crush my lifelong dream).
I think that “championing body positivity” for any class of adult humans is undignified. I think that doing a special extra thing for people in order to reverse the polarity of a judgment about that aspect of them is cruelly mocking them for that aspect of them.
Perhaps there’s something about that short guy that’s actually awesome, and doesn’t require childish lies and role-playing to communicate.
If someone called me “small dick king” I would hate them forever, despite whatever positive intentions they might have had when they said it. Do not make my weakness the key point of my persona, even if you include that awkward attempt at “positivifying” it. Just call me “Intensely Human, master wordsmith”
or something that’s actually positive. Don’t treat me like I’m a five year old, using keywords to remap my negative qualities into positive ones.
The whole idea of using a term, that’s special to short men, to “champion” (verbing nouns is horrible) body positivity in short men, makes me feel nauseous.
If we want to respect short men, let’s do so in action, not in word choice.
I'm a man, I'm 5'5" and I'm far beyond caring about my height. It bothered me in high school but I found out shortly after it really doesn't matter that much if you carry yourself confidently.
That said, I've seen a number of other cis men find confidence in themselves by using short king self referentially and hearing people they want to date celebrate "short kings", so it seems to be a useful term. I've also seen a number of trans men find it to be a confidence boosting term, combating the dysmorphia of their perceived height deficiency.
I'll revel in such things with my friends for laughs, but, ultimately, it doesn't do much for me, but I like seeing what it's done for others.
It bothered me in high school but I found out shortly after it really doesn't matter that much if you carry yourself confidently.
Which is accurate and admirable, but for those still in high school feeling bothered, wouldn't the population of the term help them get to your head space faster? Terms of encouragement are a lot more valuable to the vulnerable than the secured.
What would help them build confidence faster is having something to be confident about. It's hard to build confidence when you have nothing to be proud of. Complimenting actions and choices will help them. What does "short king" help with that simply "king" doesn't? It sorta feels like you're either saying "dude your shortness is so impressive that I'm jealous" which doesn't make sense because that's kind of a strange thing to be proud of, or "you're so awesome in spite of your shortness" which is like a backhanded compliment by implying that their height is detracting from the rest of their qualities, or at the very least is calling attention to an attribute they're self-conscious about.
I hate those pseudo feel-good tokenism bullshit, like "dad-bod", or "short king". Since they were said with good intentions, now I'm going to have to pretend that I appreciate a cactus slapped on my face.
Edit: Should've mentioned my height - it's 5'6". I've been fat-shamed since I was a child, and it continues even to this day for being between normal and over-weight. I have social anxiety, I hear whispers towards me, and when there's a loud laughter from some group in public, it puts me in a panicked state.
I m 164cm and you have to admit that yup it is "negative" (well it s not really it s just that being taller is better) . I like the term short king I think. I m not an english native speaker so no one call me that .that s may be why it don't bother me.
It's silly. And 5'10" isn't short for a guy, and I say that as a tall lady. I don't think most guys like feeling short, that's problematic in itself but yeah, as you say, I would feel "short king" a backhanded compliment.
In general I think worrying about things people didn't choose and can't change is the worst. I feel slightly different about worrying about weight, but that's my own baggage.
I'm a relatively short guy at 5'6". My take on this is firstly that I dislike being called "king" because it sounds patronizing, especially by someone who knows nothing about me (that just feels insincere). Secondly, I'm comfortable, even happy, with my height. There have been many times I've been glad that I wasn't taller. It's kinda funny watching taller folks hitting their heads on things and complaining about cars being too small.
With my shortness being accepted by myself, someone else randomly pointing it out by explicitly calling me a "short king" in an effort to promote body positivity makes me think that in order for them to be recognizing shortness as a potentially negative trait means they likely thought of it as a negative in the past and are now patting themselves on the backs for being "enlightened" and subtly shaming others who still haven't "evolved" to their level. It feels like less of a compliment and more of a circle jerk.
Also, I don't feel like shortness needs any championing. Going back to the topic of obesity in the discorse of body positivity, I think it's a great idea to treat people as people regardless of weight. But I think the implied premise stated by OP is flawed in this regard. I do think being happy with being overweight is different than being happy about being short. There are no apparent benefits to being overweight, since it generally increases risk factors in all kinds of medical issues. With this in mind, body positivity regarding weight should focus on encouraging others to lose weight without shaming them. The same is not true of being short. Besides the impossibility of people making themselves taller even if they wanted to, there's no negative to a person's well-being or quality of life because of it.
I can't remember any time in my life that I've ever been called short as an insult either. This post just seems to be attempting to fix a non-issue. In summary, I would rather no one speak the words "short king" at all. Just go with "you're such a badass" if you wanna give a compliment.
There have been many times I've been glad that I wasn't taller. It's kinda funny watching taller folks hitting their heads on things and complaining about cars being too small.
6'3" guy here. Every time someone says "wow you're tall" I say that it's not that great. 6' is plenty to reach high shelves and stuff like that I think, but I struggle with leg room in public transport. I think that's more annoying than needing a ladder once in a while. Also I often feel my hair touching the roof in smaller cars.
If someone were to call me a "short king," I would have their name legally changed to "Cellulite Queen" or "The Right High Honorable Sir Shriveldick Pissinbed III" or some other such.
I definitely roll with "badass tiny mf", "chill little dude", "tiny gangsta bro" or any other title making fun of my stature. Call me anything involving "king" and I'll be inclined to convince you that, even though I'm short, you'll be shorter once you're confined to a wheelchair
5"10 isn't short anyway. I think it's average? "Short king" is trolling 100% of the time. I won't call it gaslighting (a term I do apply to "big dick energy") because it doesn't seek that level of psychological invasiveness. But it's not intended as a compliment. It's trolling. Don't feed the trolls.
As someone who is a few inches below average height where I live, I personally wouldn't like being called a "short king". Also, fuck those over 6 foot men for driving up the average height and unintentionally making me have an irrational annoyance because I'm short.
It's not all roses up here either. I'm 6'4". Not NBA competitive in height, but well above the average. Finding clothes, shoes etc is a royal pita. Some amusement park rides I can't fit in. Having to duck a lot and having to be generally more aware of the height of doorways and hanging light fixtures. Also having people in stores asking me to grab stuff from upper shelving gets old too.
The internet made a whole lot of things a big deal. Then convinced guys they were the victims. Then filled their heads with extremist ideologies. What a wild past 10-15 years.
Personally I do not let internet trends affect my behavior out in the real world. Why is that? Because if I use the term "short king" anywhere in the real world, 99% of people won't know what I'm talking about. Until you hear a real person say it (that means not on lemmy, not on twitter, not on dating apps, etc. or people you meet through these platforms) you can assume that there is no real impact to be had there. I think we give way too much credit to the internet for affecting real life trends. Most people don't care about these cute terminologies people come up with, and neither should you. The term was made to get someone attention, not to make short people feel better.
I dont have a problem with the phrase but I don't think ive ever heard it unironically or outisde of joking situatuons. Which is right about where the state of body positivity for men ends up.
Pro tip. Never tell people that even if someone is an asshole calling them small dicked is body shaming, unless you want all those people to instantly assume you're telling on yourself and then body shame you for that.
I know people mean it well and I respect that. But it's a little indirect insult, when their first reaction is to assume that you feel bad about it and to patronize you.
Of course there are people with that mindset among short dating men who often aggressively blame women's standards. So I try to be not too upset about it.
I loath it and the only thing I would think if someone called me it is that they have an uncomfortable fixation on my height. I think at the very best it is obnoxious.
I'm 5'4" and the term just makes me cringe. I don't normally think about my height unless someone else brings it up or I need to reach the top shelf, but I don't need encouragement in that case... just a ladder.
as a 5'7 person, I can't control my height. Therefore, it isn't something that I should feel bad about. it's the same way I feel about the color of my skin or any other physical or mental things I have going on that are 100% out of my control. it's a difficult way to address my shortcomings (pun intended), but once you start just accepting these are things that cant be control, you start feeling better about yourself. I've cut out a lot of people in my life that made me feel bad about uncontrollable things, and it's made me a much better person. I'm still on that journey to improve every day, too; it'll never stop
I think the trap many people fall into is getting caught up and comparing themselves to other people. I can't imagine if I woke up every day and compared myself to some of the wealthiest people in the world... I'd get depressed so fast!
as for the term short king, that's absolutely hilarious to me, I approve of its use lol.
I think that part of it is how, to me at least, the term "fat" is so generic and hard to nail down to a discrete definition, implying that the word really doesn't have a clear connection to reality.
well, there's a clear definition as to what is considered to be overweight, and if someone fits that category, it's up to them to decide how they take it. it's a lifestyle choice for that person, in my opinion, and I know plenty of people that are happy with their larger size and others that would like to bring their weight down. but comparison will always make someone feel bad about themselves if they dont take the comparison as constructive criticism.
Oh god, this kind of moral grandstanding is just cringeworthy, let alone as a false concern for others.
It screams "I need the approval of others or I feel bad about my genetics over which I have no control".
If someone doesn't like how I look, oh well, that's life. Seems this is a lesson most people learn in grade school - some people aren't going to like you, you're not going to like some people.
Further, if we're talking about physical attractiveness, that's something all over the place, and something over which we have no control.
Attraction isn't a choice - what you do about it is.
If someone doesn’t like how I look, oh well, that’s life. Seems this is a lesson most people learn in grade school - some people aren’t going to like you, you’re not going to like some people.
You're not entirely wrong, but you're also totally missing the fact that people are 100% judged by stature and not just in attractiveness, but in their value period.
The taller you are, the higher salary people will assume you already are making. During hiring, this means you'll be offered a higher starting salary to try and make the offer more appealing to you.
Here's an article that references the study I'm thinking of. https://merryformoney.com/height-salary/ If you care ,you can maybe dig up the original study somehow.
This sort of bias is pretty inescapable in our culture and will be I think regardless of our language. Preferred body shapes do change over time, even within the span of a single generation. Maybe tying more positive words around these words is part of that change.
It objectively is and it's a terrible comparison to being short.
Being fat is terrible for your health and will limit your chances in love. It's not politically correct to admit it, but most people simply aren't attracted to people that are overweight, and whilst appearances shouldn't matter, they absolutely do.
The difference between being short and being fat is that you can't control your height. Controlling your weight might not be fun, but you can essentially choose what weight you are.
Bullying is obviously never ok, but if you're not ok with the idea of being called fat, then you can choose not to consistently over eat for long periods of time.
Inb4: I understand some people have severe health and mental issues that are the primary source of their obesity and I empathise hugely with these people, but most overweight people simply lack will power. Losing weight is like giving up smoking, you can want to do it, but you don't until you say "enough is enough" and actually mean it.
In french, "short" is petit, which translates to small -there is no distinction between "small as in short" and "small as in small" other than context. Imho this plays a bit in how it's perceived : it's a less specific term than the english "short" while at the same time being linked with general smallness, which has some power connotations.
I think "short king" is trying too hard to reclaim a word, and in the process makes it sound more problematic than it was in the first place.
As far as I can tell, "body positivity" is for ugly chicks. Pretty chicks don't need it and physical attractiveness doesn't exist for men.
As a man, the only thing about me that matters to anyone else is what value they can extract from me, and when the answer becomes "none" I will be discarded. Doesn't matter if a man looks like the inside of a kidney as long as he can pick up the check. Everything else about you is irrelevant.
I don't think most women are that cynical. Like do transactional relationships exist? Absolutely, but I don't think that's the majority of them and you probably don't want that kind of relationship anyways.
In fact, in my experience, women are typically made uncomfortable when I try to insist on paying for the entire bill on a date.
I think for a lot of women, it's as simple as, "am I comfortable and do I have fun when I'm hanging out with this guy?".
But at the end of the day, women are not a monolith that all think and act the same. Just as men are not a monolith that all think and act the same. So it is unwise to assume all women want the same things out of a relationship.
Yeah here's the thing about the women who just want to "be comfortable and have fun"...life has a way of becoming not comfortable or fun sometimes. Call up Little Miss "He makes me laugh" and tell her you've had a table saw accident and you need her to drive you to the hospital. See how much longer she sticks around.
I had a girl break up with me once because I said to her "I think I need to go to the dentist." Like the next words she said to me were "I don't think this is going to work out." Whatever we were, it certainly wasn't "friends." Turns out I was right, I've got a polymer bicuspid now.
The women who want to be around you because you're fun will walk out of the theater the second they're no longer enjoying the show. It's about what value they can extract from you. Always is.
You have a great deal of value outside of how much money you make there are people out there interested in those qualities. I'm sorry you haven't noticed them yet, but they are out there. Try to keep an open mind and an open heart and you may find them and they find you sooner than you think.