Before the introduction of daylight savings, people and companies were perfectly capable of adjusting the productive hours according to the sun - if they needed to.
Farmers who are usually (wrongly) used as an example were against the clock changes, because it really isn't relevant to them and only creates problems for their schedules with live stock.
The actual reason for the daylight saving was saving energy and coal. This is not an issue anymore, because the energy used for lighting is negligible today.
The only sane thing to do is to stop changing the clocks and then focus on making working schedules more flexible.
one day we will just stick with daylight time. its kind of a slap in the face to lose your only hour of sunlight after work!
Depends where you live. Up north it only makes a difference for a few weeks. Then it's still dark after work for most of the winter.
Now if only all people, managers, businesses, unions, realized they could set what time they worked to whatever the hell they wanted within reason, moved to somewhere closer to the equator, got up earlier to use the morning instead of the night, did stuff at night...
Either way, we need to do away with the switching lol.
Eh......I think we need to do away with the concept of money, and work, and managers owning the majority of our time.
You think a cat gives a fuck what time Starbucks closes??? Hell no! They just sleep on your bed, or on the floor, or on a table, or on the stairs, or anywhere they want, anytime they want. And they make SURE you are always looking at their butthole.
You think you can just go into starbucks, and present your butthole, to all who look at you, while also sleeping on their counter? I mean, you're TOTALLY in the way, and making everyones lives more inconvienent......but fuck 'em, ya know?
You can't do ANY of that! Because for some reason, we've all decided that little green paper controls our lives.
Or in the case of Canada, multicolored monopoly money.
One day we will just stick with standard time.
(Or we’ll try permanent DST and experience all of the negative effects and then either go back to cycling or realize we should’ve done permanent standard.)
Drop "daylight savings time" and "standard time" monikers. Use UTC offsets, and tell us what state you are in.
New York and Michigan are currently in the same time zone. When we go to permanent time, they should not be.
Michigan in UTC-4 (EDT) winter would have a sunrise after 9AM. That's fucking absurd; they should not be on UTC-4 during winter. They should be permanently on UTC-5.
New York in UTC-5 (EST) would have a summer sunrise before 4AM. That's fucking absurd. They should not be on UTC-5 in the summer. They should be permanently on UTC-4.
Maine's earliest sunset on UTC-5 will be at 3:45PM. That is criminally insane. They should permanently be on UTC-4, or maybe even UTC-3.
The negative effects are either due to the act of changing the clocks forward implemented in such a way as to deprive everyone everywhere an hour of sleep, or something something natural light in the morning. Which is not a benefit of "standard" or "daylight savings" time, it's a complete and utter failure of "work starts at 6AM and ends at 10PM."
The solution: Lynch all the rich people. If there's no one to be forced to build wealth for, we won't have to work such long hours and we can get up and have free time in daylight.
Permanent daylight time gives us all of the downsides and exactly one benefit. I'm sorry you live that far North/South but that's just how the seasons and tilt of the earth work. We shouldn't be doing split time at all and we shouldn't endeavor to be an hour off the rest of the world just so commuters can drive home with the sun in their eyes.
There is no formal requirement for your state to stay within its current timezone.
If we go to permanent DST, you can petition for your state to switch to the next timezone to the west, which would give you the same time as permanent standard time in your current timezone. Detroit, for example, is on the western edge of ET. Sunrise in winter for them would be as late as 9AM, which is ridiculous. But, if Michigan shifts to CT instead of ET, sunrise goes to 8AM, and everyone is happy.
Move yourself from EDT to CDT, which is the same as EST. Or move from CDT to MDT/CST. Or MDT to PDT/MST. Or PDT to AKDT/PST.
If you don't want to drive home with your the sun in your eyes, take a job to the east of your home.
Where I live, even our winter time isn't close to be aligned with sun time (GMT+1 though we're basically on the Greenwich meridian). Summer time is off by two hours.
Problem is, our school/work/activity schedules have been made to adapt to that, so having days centered around actual sun midday would sound like crazy talk to people. It's just because of how we already compensated for it.
So many people don't understand that the same outcome of an 'extra hour' after work could be had by shorter work hours or not having the majority of the typical office workday after noon.
9-5 was a 3|5 split. 8-5 is a 4|5 split. Treating 5 pm as the only rime to end the office workday is the fucking problem, not the sun. Changing clocks twice a year is a problem.
I say this every year: FUUUUUUUUCK THAT.
With permanent DST the latest sunrise in Detroit would be 0900. That's fucking absurd. All across the US kids would be waiting for the school bus in the dark, walking to those bus stops in the dark. My personal beef with it is that I, and many of the people that make the world go 'round, start at 0600. We need to see ASAP for safety, if nothing else.
The US tried it in the early '70s, didn't even finish the two year trial period:
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/19/1087280464/the-u-s-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-1970s-then-quickly-rejected-Fuck DST. If people really want it to stay light until 2100 in the summer then so be it but don't make a lot of the working class labor half their day in the dark in the depths of winter.
Detroit is an interesting one.
If Detroit kept DST permanent, the sun would basically set after 6pm every day.
However. Like you said, no one wants to wait until the 9am for the sun to rise.
Abolishing DST could be beneficial for Detroit. Not as many days where the sun sets after 6. But more days where it rises before 7.
The current system is bad for Detroit. It should either abolish it or keep it permanent.
Detroit night owls would want to keep it, early birds would want to abolish it.
Detroit is like El Paso TX. Where the current system is clearly bad.
Maine is the opposite. The current system is "best" and the birds and owls fight.
I live in Charlotte NC. I've always been for DST. Permanent DST means basically 365 days where the sun sets after 6pm. While getting basically the same number of days where the sun rises before 7am. I'm not an early riser, so as long as it's up by 8/9am most of the time it's fine with me.
Arizona has it right. What I want in Charlotte shouldn't matter to what you want in Detroit.
You hate DST, I like it. You should be able to get rid of it, I should be able to keep it.
Different places are affected by it much more or less. People are owls or birds. You can't make everybody happy with one option.
Maine is so far away from everything else it could be in it's own time zone. That's why it is a strange case.
Never really thought about Detroit being almost directly north of Charlotte.
Red lines are current time zones. Red circle is El Paso. Blue lines are if you equally cut US into 4 time zones.
Detroit is to the right of the red line. It has 3 boxes to reach the beginning of the time zone which is just to the right of Maine. (Sorry didn't draw it)
El Paso being in the circle makes it 3 boxes to reach the beginning of time zone just like Detroit and why it is in the similar situation with DST.
The right two time zones are large time zones. The left two are only 2 boxes wide.
Maine should be in a separate time zone than Detroit
Detroit should probably move to CST. Then, argue about daylight savings time in the summer to be EST (Not EDT)
Sounds like something you'd like, maybe?
Kids all across the US are waiting at the bus in the dark anyway.
Not everyone gets to get on a bus after sunrise.
The better answer is to just quit switching altogether, and socially adjust everything to x hours pre mid-day sun.
With everything being connected these days it's trivial (hell, industrial clocks have been tied to electrical frequency since 1900, so it's always been trivial to compensate them).
If "6am" slowly moved every day due to when mid-day sun/sunrise occurs, no one would even notice.
With permanent DST the latest sunrise in Detroit would be 0900.
The entire nation doesn't need to be following year round the schedule that Detroit school kids need from November to January.
The better solution for this little problem is to go ahead and shift the entire country to permanent DST, and move Detroit from the Eastern time zone to the Central time zone. Latest sunrise in Detroit is now 8AM. Your complaint is resolved, without either of us being forced to switch our clocks twice a year.
You can't make the days longer and I still think the sun in the afternoon/evening is more useful.
It's true moving the clocks around doesn't do anything. But I know my kids wanted more hours of daylight after school not before school.
Though I also think school ought to start closer to 9:00.
Ah yes, that darn hour of sunlight you lose.
Start working hours earlier.
Wow, great suggestion. I assume you'll be contacting the people at my company in charge of defining when I must be at work?
Good. I don't need light in the evening, I need it in the morning so I can wake up feeling rested. End DST; make standard time permanent.
No make summertime permanent so you have one hour more in the evening.. It's going to be dark in the morning no matter what.
Summertime is terrible, especially in summer. You have one less usable hour in the evening.
During the summer you cannot really go outside until the sun goes down. It’s simply too hot in direct sunlight. Summer evenings are nice, after the sun goes down and the world starts to cool down a little. By moving the clock forwards we have an hour less of usable outdoor-time. It also means you have less time for things to cool down before going to sleep.
DST makes it so you have to go bed too early, being unable to enjoy the evening, and when you go to bed it’s too hot to sleep, but you have to because you have to get up at a ridiculous time the next morning.
Instead of DST we should introduce MST (Moonlight Saving TIme) and move the clock an hour backwards in summer. Then we can actually enjoy our summer evenings and go to bed once things have cooled down a little more. The earlier sunrise doesn’t matter since there is such a thing as blackout curtains.
Fuck that, use coffee like everyone else. Sun after work is literally the only time I see sun in the winter.
Fuck that, use coffee like everyone else.
Fuck that, y'all are addicted to caffeine and normalising it to the point where not being a coffee craving zombie in the morning is apparently a weird thing.
Sun after work is literally the only time I see sun in the winter.
Idk what your job is but do you not have any windows anywhere? Because that's how you get burnout along with coffee addiction.
Where do you live within your timezone?
I think your sentiment comes from people living on the western side of their time zone, where sunrise and sunset is an hour later than on the eastern end. On the western edge of the timezone (Detroit, for example, on the west end of the Eastern timezone), sunrise in winter could be as late as 9AM.
On the eastern end of a timezone, sunset can be as early as 3:45PM. As early as you want your sunlight, I think we can agree that a sunset before 4PM is ridiculously absurd.
If you are, indeed, on the western edge of the timezone as I think, we could adopt DST, and move you to the next zone to the west, which would put you on the same time as standard time in your current zone. You win, we win, everyone wins.
Alternatively, we could adopt Standard Time, and move people on the eastern edge to the next time zone to the east, which would put them on the same time zone as DST in their current time zone. Again, you win, we win, everyone wins.
Are you on the western edge of your timezone, or at least in the western half?
Side benefit: mid-day is once again at 12:00, instead of being at 13:00 DST. Not an issue for some, but it's annoying for me to know that the sun's local apex is an hour later than it should be.
I'm with you. I've been having a harder time getting up. Looking forward to having the sun at 7 o'clock latest, get me up, because I got shit to do. I can stay awake no problem.
Also, if the sun goes down earlier you will want to go to bed earlier. (Assuming you're not too much exposed to blue light in the evening.) DST has been scientifically proven to interfere with people's sleep cycle and consequently also their mental health.
I work second shift... you're all crazy.
I switched my work schedule one hour earlier starting tomorrow. I'm not sure it's going to work because I have family.
I'm staying up too late now. F standard time.
Ive been struggling getting good sleep bc i had to wake up in the dark the last month, finally felt ok yesterday with the time switch. DST is a nightmare of sleep deprivation.
I wish they would do this a week ago, so the kids could experience halloween how it's supposed to be, IN THE FUCKING DARK
Blame congress too, since they passed the bill.
I was a kid the first year after that went into effect, my computer automatically changed for the time change 2 weeks too early, so I had to have my parents fix it for me...twice. that was my first gripe with Dubya. Then his VP caused my luggage to get lost by seizing up all plane movement at Minneapolis St Paul because Dick Cheney had to take off but then stopped on the tarmac for 20 minutes for some reason while the whole airport was at a standstill for him, making every flight 30+ minutes late. So yeah I've got some personal gripes with Dubya's administration
Tbf it not being in the dark might save some kids from being hit by a car. (Not saying that switching daylight time is the actual root of that problem...)
pretty sure the changing the clock itself hits more kids than the daylight saves but I haven't looked at the study in at least a decade. I'm a proponent of picking one a staying there, I don't care which.
I have a north-facing apartment, and the super-early sunset makes me sad.
I live in a basement and it was dark enough I had to turn the lights on a 4:30 yesterday. That was depressing.
Sun: Ahh, I'm ready to go to bed, it's been a long day.
Daylight Savings Time: Stay up another hour because we base our schedules around businesses. Fuck your sleep cycle!
This fall has been the first year in my life where I feel used to the changes in the diurnal cycle, I'm 34 and live in (and always lived in) Sweden. Every year and seasonal change until this fall has always been "damn, it gets light/dark so early/late now, crazy how you never get used to this", but now it's like my body has finally been prepared for it, which has and continues to be weird in its own way.
based.
Everyone here is having the same conversations that everyone always has, twice a year, since the start of changing the clocks.
These same exact conversations will be had again in six months and everyone will act like it's the first time. Again. And again. And agian
yeah, just like at Christmas, New Year's Eve or your birthday
I've never heard of anyone trying to eliminate Christmas, New Years, or birthdays. So no, not like those at all.
where do you live where the sun goes down at 4? its always ~6:45-7 at the earliest where I live iirc
Sunset is at 4:47PM in Seattle, Washington tonight.
Yeah and y'all aren't even that far north. Ours is far closer to 4:15 PM than 4:30 PM at this point and in December it gets to something absurd like 4:23 PM. Of course, people further North will laugh at this and say "sunset was 2 months ago" at that point.
16:14 in Tampere, Finland tonight.
woah, that's crazy. Thanks for the info
This is a good picture showing how different places experience different sunrise/sunset times.
Most just think that it has to do with being north or south but it also has to do with left or right depending on the location in the certain time zone.
Sunset in Eastport ME is as early as 3:45PM EST. Which is fucking absurd.
You must live on the western edge of your timezone.
Somewhere north of south of the tropics.
1705 here… I hate ST.
