An excuse removes responsibility.
A reason does not.
"You are excused" means you no longer are responsible for the outcome.
"I literally wasn't present when it happened, so I'm not responsible for the outcome" < excuse, which can be valid
"I knew what was going to happen, here is why I did it for a good reason" < reason
Example: three kids are present, 2 are graffiti'ing the back of a house
When caught, 1 kid says "I was trying to stop them, they wouldn't listen". This is an excuse, they're claiming they aren't at fault and not responsible for the graffiti.
Another says "the home owner deserved it, he's an asshole", this is a reason as they are clearly not avoiding responsibility.
When you try and use an excuse to get out of something thar you clearly are responsible for, that's when you will get served the "I dont want an excuse" line.
Not only was this well explained, but the short segments are great for my ADHD-phobia of large blocks of text
Ohhh damn that’s why I read the whole thing. I usually scroll past walls of text in the comments.
When you try and use an excuse to get out of something thar you clearly are responsible for, that's when you will get served the "I dont want an excuse" line.
Or when they don't really want an explanation and just want you to admit fault and ask for forgiveness.
It's not just you, neurotypicals on the receiving end of that hate it too. Everyone gets told that garbage line once in a while. It's always said by someone on a power trip, they're trying to put you down into a place beneath them
In reply to the meme: Anyone who asks why and then cuts off the person they asked immediately assumed that ANY response would be an excuse, since they didn't listen to it.
They just want to be angry. They don't care about anything else, and anything anyone says is irrelevant.
No, there's one reason that they wouldn't consider an excuse, and it's what they expected you to say: "I'm a good for nothing stupid head". That's what they want to hear. They're mad because you didn't say it.
Excuses are generally made to avoid responsibility, and they aren't always completely accurate. Explanations just clarify what happened.
The thing is, the person receiving an explanation might well just assume it's an excuse, and it's hard to convince them otherwise.
Yup, when it comes to intent only one person actually knows the intent and everyone else is assuming.
To add, justifications are the opposite of excuses, they are a reason for something that justifies it.
Excuse | Explanation | Justification
Yea, even when I explain something I did wrong, I make a point to mention it's not an okay excuse and own my mistake. Then give ways I will avoid this problem I'm the future.
It's this.
Good additions about justifications in this thread as well.
If they ask for an explanation and complain about being given an excuse, then they don't want to hear the series of events which occurred. They want to hear which of your character flaws is responsible and that you're ashamed of that flaw.
Source: drag speaks fluent neurotypical
A reason is an explanation. An excuse is an attempt to shift responsibility.
Many people will create a disingenuous reason to absolve themselves of responsibility.
For instance, if someone sleeps in and leaves home 15 minutes late in the morning and arrives to work late, they may honestly say, "traffic was terrible on highway 7." And while it's true that if traffic had magically been nice that day they'd have made it on time, the honest reason they're late is because they slept in. The traffic is their excuse.
While true, I think what the OP in the image is trying to say is that even if I give you a reason you say it's an excuse when it wasn't.
I think I'm neruotypical, but I'd get this all the time from my father. I'm not making an excuse, I'm not spinning anything to shift blame, I'm answering the question and their assumption is that I'm lying to shift blame.
Really the conversation in the image should be: why are you an asshole that can't accept that shit happens. Like the following:
"why were you late?"
"I left on time, was walking down the hall, tripped and spilled something so I cleaned it up."
"I don't want your excuses!"
...well I don't know how else to answer your question without simply explaining the facts of the situation...
It’s a problem even for those of us who are neurotypical (my son is not which is why I follow this community also, so as he gets older I can understand better).
But as someone said, bosses especially will say this and they really just want you to say it was your fault.
In my mind, the difference is if you are excusing the behavior.
“I’m sorry I’m late, I missed my alarm” is an explanation because I’m not excusing the behavior, just explaining.
“I’m late because my alarm didn’t go off” is an excuse because I’m asking to excuse the behavior.
That said, excuses seem to have this bad reputation as being just a reason for laziness, but they really shouldn’t as they can be valid.
Example, my work requires 2FA to log in, which I get via a text. I use a local carrier and “our vendor who handles texting went down”. In that sense, that was my excuse for being late getting logged in - and it wasn’t laziness.
This exchange centers on excuse vs explanation.
An excuse intends to justify or remove blame.
An explanation simply retells the events without motivation or justification.
If someone ever says "I don't want your excuse" simply reply "I'm explaining what happened without excusing anything. Would you like to hear that?"
If someone ever says "I don't want your excuse" simply reply "I'm explaining what happened without excusing anything. Would you like to hear that?"
That never worked for me. The "I don't want your excuses" types were never looking for an answer they just wanted to be dicks.
Trying to further explain like in your quote above always produced "that's just more excuses!" or, "don't talk back to me" or "likely story..." or, "don't be a smartass!"
All bullshit. There are reasonable people out there but those who ask a question then berate the person they asked for answering (or for refusing to answer, when they already know the outcome) are just assholes who today will lose both my respect and attention.
Let me tell you a few secrets
First, anger uses up social energy. They get it back from your response to them... If you don't let them read any emotion from you, they'll tire themselves out very quickly.
You just have to control your body language, keep your tone calm, and let them talk. Make it clear you're paying attention to them, but otherwise give them nothing
You don't have to listen to what they say, they're just making angry human noises. Just listen to their tone, it'll rise and fall in energy cyclically until they run out of energy
When they stop talking, just give them a few moments of silence so they can feel embarrassed, then disregard their little temper tantrum and progress the conversation like it never happened, focusing on solutions
And that's the second secret - you can prompt-break a human. In every interaction, humans take on roles. Customer-employee, public official-citizen, manager-worker... Humans naturally fall into roles
You can pull a human out of their role by not playing your part, and in that moment of confusion you can recontectualize the interaction
In this case, you change the conversation roles from "you being mad at me" to "I'm the expert helping you fix your problem"
Obviously, if you just say that, people will generally just get more upset. But if you pull them off balance and start acting a new role, they'll take on the counterpart role
It's all third path conflict resolution, it's honestly harder to explain then it is to do it
If they say anything like that, just say "alright I'm gonna get back to work, cya" and quickly disengage. If they say like "we aren't done here" reply as professionally as possible to the effect of: "I was describing the events as plainly as possible. You don't seem to want that and this disagreement isn't helping me do my job. If you want the facts I have them."
If you are in an adult situation, don't allow someone to treat you like a child. Even if you've made a mistake.
That said, not sure if I mentioned it in this thread or another, but if you are in a weakened position, like you desperately need the job, then the only response is "yes sir, sorry it happened."
I always viewed the difference as intent and not mutually exclusive. reason explains your thought process, actions, and events. Excuse are reasons presented in a manor meant to shift responsibility.
Sounds like a rigged game: if someone wants to feel like the blame is being shifted.
What good is blame anyway if you want to fix the problem in the first place? I'll never get it. It feels primally cathartic to blame a person, but it fixes the issues to find the reason.
Excuse are reasons presented in a manor
A country manor? Or 'manor' as in a Southern England English idiom for 'house'?
Excuse are reasons presented in a manor
A country manor? Or 'manor' as in a Southern England English idiom for 'house'?
Not autistic, but I teach people with mild cases of autism.
The "excuse" I most often hear is that they haven't started doing the work they're supposed to be doing, because they didn't have their computer there.
That's less of a reason and more of an excuse, because the solution is easy for these kids. "Go get the computer". They know they can, and in fact often do.
The real reason is that they'd rather sit and chat with their friends instead of doing work (who doesn't?), and if they were honest about that, I'd appreciate it a lot more.
Often, I guess you could equate an excuse to a "bad reason".
A reason that you could have solved.
I mean, yeah, you're not wrong.
And I do solve these all the time, but it's his computer, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect he'd bring it when he realizes he needs it for his work?
The only reason I call it an "excuse" is because it's not the real reason, or at least it isn't the full reason. We know what the real reason is. He admits as much when we talk as well, and that's fine.
I'm not some super strict and punishing teacher who looks for reasons (or excuses) to punish these kids. Rather, I try to talk to them and understand them, which is why I'm also here in this community :)
Hi @[email protected]. I'm a late identified and DXed #ActuallyAutistic individual here with pretty much an entire autistic/neurodivergent family that has been studying autism from a internal perspective as well as externally through the greater autistic community since my clinical DX back in 2020 - not just someone who teaches kids with "mild autism".
You are wrong in quite a few counts here - let me respectfully explain:
First off let me address the biggest one. This is a bit long but insanely important so bear with me: There is no such thing as "mild", "moderate", or "severe" autism. Language really matters here because the way we speak about autism directly affects how much assistance, acceptances, accommodations and affirmation autistic individuals get within greater society. This externally perceived version of "autism severity" is the number one reason I lived for almost three full decades before I was even seen as autistic. It is very harmful.
Autism is a SPECTRUM. Not a "gradient" as so many individuals perceive it to be. For any artists or artistically inclined readers on here - all of us should know the difference. A gradient is a blending of one or more colors in a linear fashion, your most common representation as black to white with all the varying tonalities of grey in the middle . That is NOT representative of autism whatsoever. It is not a linear condition.
Autism is clinically listed in the DSM5 as Autism **spectrum ** Condition (or "ASC", which is what I personally prefer than "disorder", or "ASD" because Autism is a neurotype, but I will get into that later) for a reason: a spectrum is a full scale color wheel with the entire visible light spectrum we see as color. It contains all primary, secondary and tertiary colors including shades and tints of each from dark to light. It is a much wider range of presentations, symptoms, experiences and expressions.
Instead of a gradient starting at mild and ending at severe - think of autism like a color wheel where each color is separated into its own gradient starting from the center of the color wheel to the outer edge. Each color represents a perceived autistic trait or symptom - not how their autism presents as a whole, but just one of those elements. Lets take being hyper-verbal or nonverbal for instance and assign that particular autism-related trait to the color red. I might be closer to the outer edge of the color wheel in this "red" section but in the blue section, let's say blue represents executive dysfunction and getting tasks done in a neurotypically expected time frame, I might be closer to the center of the color wheel (I struggle a lot with C-PTSD surrounding certain cleaning tasks and also am ADHD which also has its own executive functioning difficulties around task management and completion). THIS is a much more accurate representation of what autism really is and feels like to an #ActuallyAutistic person. You can easily google visual representations of this by searching "Autism Color Wheel" or "Autism Spectrum vs Gradient".
"Then what can I say that denotes how much someone struggles with their autism?" - One word. Masking. Masking is just what it sounds like. Some autistic individuals have lived a life where they are able to mask their presentations and symptoms at different levels - I am one such individual due to my upbringing as a female-socialized girl into woman (which I am using for simplicity despite being more non-binary myself). Masking does not imply that the impact of being autistic is lessened at all however. I still experience the full breadth and width of being autistic in a extremely neurotypicallized world. But I have learned to conceal it to the outside perspective for my own safety. Masking is not always conscious. There is a lot of fawning and people pleasing trauma responses that we simply learn over time unconsciously as a direct result of trial and error.
For instance, when I was little, one of my favorite stims (self-stimulation, or "stimming" is a self regulating response to stress of attempt to focus) was to chew handfuls of hair or the collar of my t-shirts. Obviously - my mother didn't care for that and instead of providing me with an acceptable alternative, she told me to stop it all together. The need to stim didn't leave me - it just went internally where it caused a bunch of psychological stress and harm that would go into overload if I didn't find another way to externalize the need to regulate. I only masked it and made it externally invisible - but it still affected me internally. It is for this reason why although so many autistic individuals know how to mask to the point that they look neurotypical or "less autistic".
I didn't stop being autistic when I internalized my external needs (which can be so inherently psychologically dangerous and causes a lot of depression and self-harmful thoughts to even the point of wishing to be un-alived) I masked my autistic traits so I wouldn't be bullied or reprimanded or singled out anymore. That didn't take my autistic needs or traits away - it just hid them from external view. I am just as autistic as I was when I was little, I just have learned strategies to cope and get by with my difficulties in public - but behind closed doors I still exhibit "little girl" stims and challenges. I still have meltdowns. I still have times of situational mutism and go non-verbal. I still flail and flap my arms when I am emotionally dysregulated.
Ok, with that out of the way: respectfully yet again (my aim is to educate; not hound on you despite the length of this post - that's just because this stuff isn't super simple to cover and requires a bit of clarification before going on to my next point:
Please, don't ever assign "real reasons" without first speaking to your autistic student. As you might have surmised above (if you even read this far. I promise I will do a TLDR at the end); from an external perspective: you will NEVER fully know the reason for why an autistic individual does something unless you ASK THEM. Unfortunately, depending on the level of self-awareness and internal discovery work the autistic individual in question has done - they might not rightfully know. Or - they might not yet have the language to verbally express what they know, or might have not yet heard their own lived experiences echoed in someone else's account of a similar situation. I know I didn't. I had no idea about half of the autistic spectrum-y things I do or need until I heard it voiced from another autistic. I am still learning all the ways my neurological wiring affects me (oh yea: "Neurotype" is how someone is neurologically wired - think different types of operating systems like MAC vs PC or Apple vs Windows. "Neurotypical" is like one, "Neurodivergent" is like the other; they still function - just very differently from one another. But if you try to open a program built for one in the other - it just doesn't work).
Remember assuming reasons or intent for anyone only makes an ASS out of U and ME. Instead - just like you should with any human that deserves respect (which should be all of them if you are a decent person) you should ask your students why they are doing whatever is upsetting you or seems to be "non compliant". They might not even know - but it does not give you any right to assign intent or reason for what they are doing. That is just poor educatorship . Instead, do some more research and make an inferred hypothesis and then CHECK with your students by **asking ** them if u are getting close to what might be going on.
Personally; my hypothesis to the above scenario in your comment is that the verbal excuse they have given you is a default excuse they have learned to give out of ignorance to the real reason they either might not know or might not know how to verbalize what is actually going on in a way that would be palatable to your expectations. They probably also know that you are more likely to not listen to their actual explanation and deem you too reactive to even grace you with a more eloquently verbalized actual reason - such as executive dysfunction or trauma responses which are both reasonable explanations for neurodivergent individuals and deserve assessment and accommodation for the task if needed. If a student of yours is having executive functioning difficulties with an assigned task - it is up to you as their educator to figure out why they are by speaking to them and come up with an accommodation or provide them with either mental or physical tools to better do the task requested.
That is not a failure on them; that is a failure fully on you - as being an educator is much more than just telling people to do things and expecting them to do them without error or issue. Being an educator is about being flexible to your students needs -regardless of neurotype or invisible disability (or physical disability for that matter). If I were in your shoes; I would do my damnedest to learn how to better accommodate and assist differently abled and differently neurologically wired individuals and stop assigning intent and reason to why you are having challenges teaching these individuals.
"Excuse vs Explanation" is a huge topic of mine that I love to educate on - but frankly, without the above groundwork to precede it there is no way to explain and educate you. If you have gotten this far I will grant you this: Excuses are often perceived as "lazy" reasons why someone wont do something. It assumes that there is no logical reason - externally or internally - for someone to not comply with a task. It assumes incompetence, it assumes intent on not doing the task out of sheer insolence and insubordination. Very rarely is this actually the case.
If you have zero idea the struggles your students face as neurodivergent individuals - not just in your classroom, but in the world and society
I really appreciate the way you describe autism more as a colour wheel than a gradient. I think that's a very good visual for me to understand. I'm a bit unsure about the language I'm supposed to use when this kid in particular is so high functioning though. If we're talking about a color wheel here, would it be fair to say he's got a fairly desaturated form of autism then? Or that his color mostly blends in with the rest of the neurotypical class?
Or is it all just "masking"? How does autistic type masking differ from the masking everyone has to do just to fit into society at all?
To address some of your concerns here, I believe I've been somewhat misunderstood here and you've assumed something about me that isn't true. I do talk to these kids all the time. It's my job to talk to them and to understand them, and I do it with joy :)
This is not an assumption with the kid. I'm asking them and digging a bit deeper, and the kid tells me that he didn't have his computer there.
I ask him if he brought it to school, and he did. It just wasn't in front of him and he tells me he was more interested in the conversation he had with his classmate instead. That's fine, that's not something I get annoyed with, I just go "alright, chop chop. Talk while you work, and you'll be good" and the situation is solved.
When I only get "the PC isn't here", and we've been through this song and dance many a time before, then I do get a little exasperated, though not outwards, and I am flexible in the whole ordeal.
There's a reason I put "excuse" in quotation marks in my original post here. It's a bad reason, or at least not the full reason. That's what the original question was about, too.
So I understand that you're very, very passionate about this topic, and I get that you try to keep it respectful as well, but I will add that I also definitely feel mischaracterized here, and that makes the message a lot harder to accept for me (though I do agree with your points here and I also appreciate your color wheel explanation).
I basically feel scolded for something I didn't do. Even if you might not mean to, it feels like you're calling me a failure as an educator, and I can guess most people who had a teacher like that didn't learn a lot from them.
CONTINUED From SaphiraGrace' response to @[email protected] below.....world and society as a whole - you do not possess the required data or facts or lived experience to assign intent or reason to why a student doesn't comply with a task or demand. You just don't. And its not yours to assume.
Please, I know this is long. I am quite aware. (Yes, I will have a TLDR for reference here in a second) but it is fully necessary in response to such vapid ignorance and harmful assumption when it is so clear that you know very little about autism from a lived experience perspective. I get it. I'm not mad at you - just disappointed at how rampant such a take is in our society. So rampant that I have dedicated the rest of my life to educating those like yourself about what being autistic and neurodivergent really is like - and I will likely be doing such until I die.
Please find autistic voices to listen to. Autistic experiences to widen your understandably neurotypically-limited perspective. We need better understanding. We need better levels of empathy and care than we are currently receiving. We need better inclusion in society - not just surface-level, but inclusion that gives us a sense of truly belonging. We need those who don't process and experience life the way we do to still give us a chance at living an authentic life without such a steep risk of burnout and stress that too often culminates in losing our lives to it.
If you would like some resources to learn more, please, DM me (this goes for anyone who has read through this mammoth of a post thus far and are also intrigued to know more). I have bookoos of them that I have collected and acquired through about half a decade or more of research and self-introspection. I am proverbial fount of information and I do not wish to keep all my knowledge and insight to myself - for having an outlet to share it is one of my few ways to safeguard myself from my own burnout and potential demise.
OK HERE WE GO! The TLDR:
From the top:
- Autism is a spectrum, not a gradient.
- Terms like "mild," "moderate," or "severe" autism are harmful and inaccurate.
- Language matters; it affects how autistic individuals are perceived and accommodated.
Spectrum vs. Gradient:
- Autism spectrum: A full color wheel with varying traits.
- Example: Hyper-verbal vs. nonverbal traits represented as different colors.
- Importance of understanding autism's complexity and varied presentations.
Masking:
- Masking: Concealing autistic traits to appear neurotypical.
- Masking does not lessen the impact of being autistic.
- Examples of masking: concealing stimming behaviors due to external pressures.
Utilize a Better Approach to Educating:
- Do not assign reasons or intent without asking autistic individuals.
- Importance of directly communicating with autistic students to understand their actions.
- Examples of how assumptions can lead to misunderstandings and inadequate support.
Personal Experience:
- Autistic individuals may not know or articulate their needs due to lack of self-awareness or language.
- Importance of educators' flexibility and willingness to accommodate neurodivergent students.
- Personal anecdotes to illustrate the challenges and needs of autistic individuals.
Call to Action:
- Greater understanding, empathy, and true inclusion are needed in society.
- Encouragement to learn from autistic voices and lived experiences.
- Offer to provide resources for those interested in learning more about autism.
Excuses are "this is why I'm not at fault" and places the blame on someone or something else (including a circumstance). A reason is "this is why it happened" without trying to self-justify. A lot times reasons come across as excuses because the person has not taken responsibility for what they've done.
If a reason doesn't come with ownership of fault, it's an excuse.
Edit: see comment below about fault and responsibility
but an admission of fault for something that wasn't your fault is also bad
I think I should choose my words more carefully now that you say that. There is a difference between fault and responsibility, and it's really more a matter of taking responsibility for things that are your responsibility.
So let's say I leave home in a reasonable time to meet someone. However there are a series of car crashes on the way that cause traffic to back up. The accidents did not yet occur when I left my home, so I could not have accounted for them. My lateness is not my fault, because I did not cause the situation nor could I change or avoid it, but it is my responsibility to my (friend, date, boss, whoever) to call them and let them know my new estimated time of arrival. If I don't try to let them know, they have every right to be angry with my for showing up an hour late, even though the lateness is not caused by my action or inaction.
When I get that line, I end the conversation. As politely as is just necessary.
I refuse to be scolded and lectured like a child, and if it's a work setting, I would probably fire off a couple resumés that very evening.
I'm too old to demean myself in the workplace. I am of equal value as everyone else in the company, even if somemakeare paid more money and can assign tasks to me. That doesn't make them higher-ups.So, preface - not neurotypical, but I dont really struggle with this sort of thing personally. At least I think so lol.
An excuse is a reason. One dictionary definition is "a reason that you give to explain why you did something wrong." When you have done something wrong, people don't usually want the reasons. They want contrition, or help resolving it. Also note another dictionary definition - "a false reason that you give to explain why you do something." There is a perception that any reason given after doing something wrong may well be false, intended to deflect blame rather than genuinely explain. In general, there are times when it is appropriate to explain, and times when it is not.
It's frustrating that someone would directly ask why you did something while not wanting an answer, but when people are stressed or frustrated - i.e. when something has gone wrong - they do sometimes just lash out with questions designed to accuse rather than to elicit an actual answer. The question: "why did you do it this way", from someone who is angry, might really mean: "I'm angry with you because I can't fathom what reason you could possibly have for doing it this way, now that it has gone wrong." The solution isn't to provide that answer, it's to resolve whatever the problem is and let them calm down. There may come a point when explaining the reason is appropriate later.
Outside the specific context of the question - in general, if something bad happens as a result of your actions, explaining them isn't the first thing you should do. First apologise, then try to resolve whatever the problem is. You can talk reasons later, it definitely can be helpful to understand how things went wrong... But only if you have the intention of trying to avoid it in the future. If you come off as trying to deflect blame... That's going to be perceived as an excuse. Accept the blame first, and your reasons will be more likely accepted as an attempt to avoid future problems.
"Let me make you feel this way real quick..."
"No reply, just feel!"
It's this. Anyone who asks you a question and then interrupts your reply was either trying to ask a rhetorical question (which is ambiguous for anyone in this scenario, neurodivergent or typical), or is acting in bad faith. You're completely justified in feeling frustrated by it.
That question can be clear by tone, and by level of trust.
I'm a very curious person, so I want to understand what drove a decision (even if it was "I don't know" or "Just seemed like the right answer"), and I want to understand someone's approach to things - there's lots to be learned that way.
But yea, quite often it's a rhetorical, judgmental question.
It's not a neurotypical thing, it's an asshole thing.
"Go fuck yourself" is probably the response you're looking for. Or maybe just ending the conversation.
This isn't really a neurotypical vs atypical thing. Some people are just assholes and want to exert control over others/don't value the reasoning of others.
I absolutely hate when people say shit like that, and I will 100% tell management in front of everyone "If you just want someone to blame, that's fine but don't ask me to explain something and then get pissy like a child when I do exactly that."
Because that's exactly what they are doing.
And I will not participate in such assery.
And I will not participate in such assery.
That's why I don't emotionally identify as human. Too much assery, too little compassion.
They practice this crap in the mirror to make themselves sound cool and be a bully.
They never wanted a real answer. Just to flex their tiny portion of power over you.
<not autistic person>
The way I use those words:
A reason is a cause for an event or a thought process that caused a decision.
An excuse is one of:
- a true reason why a person did a bad thing
- an explanation (true or false) why the cause of events or decisions was somebody else’s actions, not the speaker’s actions
- an explanation (true or false) pretending to be a reason, that isn’t actually the true cause of the event or decision
If I said, “don’t give me any of your excuses” to somebody, I would be meaning all of:
- something bad happened and I think it’s your fault
- I want you to agree with me that it’s your fault and accept blame
- I think you have a pattern of not seeing (or not admitting) that your actions cause bad things, and that’s happening again now
This is a bunch of very negative stuff to be meaning. It could be whoever said that is an asshole, blind, or unfair. If they treat everybody with negative shit like this that’s likely and there’s just no winning with such a person.
I actually have said stuff like “don’t give me excuses” to my kids. I think I’m not an asshole. When I said it, I thought my kid was flailing about doing dumb shit without thinking. What I meant for my kid was, “I want for you to start thinking about how a chain of events fits together, and I want you to accept you have the ability and the responsibility to see a bad outcome forming, and to take actions to make a better outcome instead.”
“I want for you to start thinking about how a chain of events fits together, and I want you to accept you have the ability and the responsibility to see a bad outcome forming, and to take actions to make a better outcome instead.”
Have you considered just telling them that? You're possibly obfuscating an important lesson for them by using a cultural phrase, and it's not uncommon for kids to learn the wrong lesson out of it.
That’s probably good advice but it’s about 15 years too late for me to use it :)
Because it is not a question. They are not asking for information. They are complaining about your work by recriminating you. Like a rethoric question where the answer is "because you're stupid".
they are inv asking for information
Imho, an excuse is just an invalid reason, and that varies person to person and situation to situation.
I work in a role that has customer service elements, and sometimes there is no difference. Some people just want to be angry. CEO types are the worst about this, where an “excuse” is any less than perfect reason (from their ungrounded point of view) and a reason is whatever they accept, and usually their mind has already been up. Perfection or perish.
On the other hand, if I was late to work, and my manager asked why, and I said “Oh, there was a major wreck on the freeway” he would say “oh, that’s fine” knowing I often get to the office a little early because I add in an extra 20 minutes for traffic, since that usually gets me into the office in time due to how unpredictable my commute times tend to be.
The director at my first job, would not give a flying fuck, and would exclusively say “stop making excuses, you should have left earlier” if i was like two minutes late for any reason, even if a normal person would go “oh ok, that’s fine”
Yeah it's important to cut that off, if you can.
I try to reply something like "I'm not seeking to be excused, I'm explaining what happened. That's it." This can be a bit bristly but it clearly defines your role in the conversation, and stops them from putting you in a role they've picked for you. (the penitent subordinate) .
Obviously ymmv as you might not be stable enough in your role
When someone talks they're telling you something about themselves, not about you. They might be telling you what they think about you, but that's something they think, not something you are.
In this case there are two things going on. One is the reason vs excuse, which is a blurry line vaguely separated by accountability and how much control you had over the situation.
The second and most important is that your boss is telling you he's an asshole who is more interested in making you feel bad than salvaging this situation and improving on the future.
That's the difference between nt and nd. Most nts will pick up on the fact that the boss is an asshole and there was never a correct answer. Nds on the other hand are more likely to internalize the situation wondering what they did wrong and how to improve future outcomes because they assume the criticism was honest and well reasoned and that there was a correct response.
The expectation of honest and productive exchange is unfortunately something assholes often abuse to bully neurodivergent individuals.
I think the implication is that a reason is out of your control, while an excuse is of your own doing.
Like say you slept in and were late for work. If you slept in because of a medical condition or the power went out and your alarm didn't go off, it's a reason. If you slept in because you stayed up too late or forgot to set your alarm, it's an excuse.
Not that the two terms aren't interchangable in a lot of cases.
I think a reason involves reasoning. If I'm interrogating someone about a situation like this, I want to know the why of the actions. People who say "stop giving me excuses" are just assholes, and didn't want a reason anyway.
As for dealing with other people, it's subjective. If they're not satisfied with your answer, it's an excuse to them.
To be a bit more specific, I'd say there are two factors at play, which are of course hard for the other person to judge, especially if they're a manager not involved in the task itself:
- If you can reasonably perform the task as expected despite the obstacle, it's probably an excuse. If you can't, it's almost certainly a valid reason.
- If you wanted to perform the task as expected, then something that caused you to not do so is likely a valid reason. If you didn't want to, then you're more likely to be using an excuse.
Of course, it also depends on the priority level of the task. If your sibling asks for a glass of water and you get them a mug because there are no glasses in the cabinet, those stakes are low enough that it's a valid reason even though you could have checked the dishwasher or washed a glass yourself.
Every excuse is a reason, but not every reason is an excuse.
There are genuine good reasons for things not going as planned. Like things being outside of your control.
But if it was inside your control, and you could definitely have made it go as planned, but you didn't. Then your reason is an excuse.
Oh, yeah, I think it's just a speech figure to win the debate.
Some boss-normies constantly do this to up the pressure and you stress levels.
I just stated to either fully ignore such questions or give beck bullshit one-liners ('bcs I know what I'm doing', 'it was the best resources allowed', 'bcs I deliver & achieve goals, and this one is achieved', etc.).
But it's all just leader bullshit.
I do it with my kids. Not because I don't want to hear the process, I do, but I want them to think about the root cause of why they do the things they do. Oversimplified example; why didn't you do your homework? Well, I didn't think about it. Ok, why didn't you think about it? I was focused on (x thing). Sure, so why weren't you able to remember you had homework? Etc, until we find what the reason was.
It's like a 5 whys or drill down method. The root is the reason, almost everything before it is an excuse. Essentially I'm attempting to teach them to do this on their own to improve their problem solving abilities and, because they're both ADHD, like me, to teach them to coping skills.
But yes, at work it's often just an excuse to push an agenda in a demeaning way.
But what you do with your kids is getting the explanation from then, to get to know the process & "cause" (just a bit more guided for obvious practical reasons).
I was arguing that mid management & SB often don't actually have any agenda to know & understand the reasons, just to keep the pressure & simple taking points that are so oversimplified that they don't represent anything tangible and thats fine for everyone.
(The opposite of you & your kids)
I think some people just aren’t looking for a answer, they just want to bitch.
This is most often when there’s nothing wrong with the way you’ve done something, it’s just not the way they do it.
Reasons are explanations for actions. Eg. "The reason I was late turning in my homework is that I had to got to the hospital".
Excuses are explanations for actions (aka reasons) that are not socially justifiable. Eg. "The reason I was late turning in my homework is that my friends invited me out for drinks".
The hard part is that jackasses will view even valid reasons as excuses, because to them any factors negatively impacting you are not more important than the end result being achieved.
The hard part is that jackasses will view even valid reasons as excuses
This is because 'socially justifiable' is socially constructed, i.e. there is no literal right or wrong answer, it is based on perspective. And someone can adopt a different perspective with different people based on the desire to discriminate.
Holy crap I feel seen! I always wondered this also!
If you ask my why and then go on about how you dont want excuses, the convo is over.
A reason is an explanation although not all explanations are reasonable.
An excuse is an attempt to justify a reason/explanation.
Excuses are used when the expiation is not reasonable.
I think this person asking you is really trying to tell you you did something the wrong way, but in a less direct manner, because directness is considered "rude" in some cultures.
I really dislike rhetorical questions.
More often than not it's more appropriate to say "I misunderstood, how should it have been done?" or "Sorry, I wasn't paying attention. I'll be more careful" which may or may not include an apology depending on whether you inconvenienced someone else.
excuses lend themselves to lengthy explanations. reasons are more succinct and pertinent
A reason is a motivation to do a thing. An excuse is a reason to do the wrong thing (though not necessarily an inherently wrong thing - just anything that the other person thinks was wrong).
A reason is why something happened. An excuse is why you think it's no big deal.
(got put in wrong place. Edited and put in correct place for proper response)
Yeah I mostly just lie and something like "I just do it the way my brain does it." Because "I don't want excuses" is all I heard for years growing up, so ok I will not provide any further to you.
