Google is preparing to let you run Linux apps on Android, just like Chrome OS
Google is preparing to let you run Linux apps on Android, just like Chrome OS
Google is developing a Terminal app for Android that'll let you run Linux apps. It'll download and run Debian in a VM for you.
Google is developing a Terminal app for Android that'll let you run Linux apps. It'll download and run Debian in a VM for you.
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Engineers at Google started work on a new Terminal app for Android a couple of weeks ago. This Terminal app is part of the Android Virtualization Framework (AVF) and contains a WebView that connects to a Linux virtual machine via a local IP address, allowing you to run Linux commands from the Android host. Initially, you had to manually enable this Terminal app using a shell command and then configure the Linux VM yourself. However, in recent days, Google began work on integrating the Terminal app into Android as well as turning it into an all-in-one app for running a Linux distro in a VM.
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Google is still working on improving the Terminal app as well as AVF before shipping this feature. AVF already supports graphics and some input options, but it’s preparing to add support for backing up and restoring snapshots, nested virtualization, and devices with an x86_64 architecture. It’s also preparing to add some settings pages to the Terminal app, which is pretty barebones right now apart from a menu to copy the IP address and stop the existing VM instance. The settings pages will let you resize the disk, configure port forwarding, and potentially recover partitions.
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If you’re wondering why you’d want to run Linux apps on Android, then this feature is probably not for you. Google added Linux support to Chrome OS so developers with Chromebooks can run Linux apps that are useful for development. For example, Linux support on Chrome OS allows developers to run the Linux version of Android Studio, the recommended IDE for Android app development, on Chromebooks. It also lets them run Linux command line tools safely and securely in a container.
Termux has been a thing for years.
Yeah but I bet google's one will have lots of cool features like being harder to use and not supporting becoming root and requiring google play services for no discernable reason
And will be cancelled in 18 months with 2 weeks notice.
If it’s anything like ChromeOS, it’ll be a VM where you can do whatever you want, within that VM.
Termux recently got moved off of the play store (kinda), and is now only available on f-droid/github, because Google was further locking down what they allowed on their store.
And in addition to that, they recently added a restriction in later versions of Android: "Child process limit". Although this limit used to not there, when enabled, it prevents users from truly running arbitrary linux programs, like via termux.
Although the child process limit can still be disabled in developer options, it doesn't bode well for how flexible base android in the future will be, since many times corpos like Google move stuff into the "secret" options before eventually removing that dial all together.
TLDR: Termux has been, and is a thing... for now.
Also, I want to shout out winlator. It uses a linux proot, similator to termux, and has box64 and wine inside that proot that people can use to play games. I tested with Gungeon, and it even has controller support and performance, which is really impressive.
I used Winlator at the start of the year just to test out some little itch.io games and it was pretty basic, huge to hear how far it's come already!
Termux doesn't run arbitrary software. There's a pretty large set that does but plenty doesn't. A VM would resolve that.
Ehh it kinda does considering you can get a pretty full compiler tool chain running via termux.
Yeah... While making users run Linux applications on a system where Google is root might be a wet dream for Google, it's more of a nightmare for me.
I really hate the fact that the vast majority of consumers are perfectly fine with not being in full control of their appliances and that Google (and others) register everything they do.
The reason so many people are fine with using corporate garbage is ironically the same reason they'd be just fine using something that wasn't that. Users can adapt and learn a system way better than most people think.
I personally run a custom rom, even with that I find this very exciting, This should balance the Security, Perf, Convience, aspects quite nicely
I thought the snapdragon Samsung rooting would be farther along than where we are now. I'm stuck with my phone until further notice s23u
graphene OS. i would not have bought an android phone if i had to use google roms
I want a Linux phone capable of running android apps
Pine64+waydroid
So, I'm not that great with Linux. I know the basics, that's it.
Is it user friendly? I mainly want Linux with Android app support because I hate Google.
I've used windows my entitle life. Now windows 11 upgrade was done without consent, now they are doing their best to make it even worse then it already was. I would love to switch to Linux, it's just that I'm using some apps which do not exist for Linux yet. Next to that I'm not that comfortable with the Linux mechanics to make the switch on my main PC. As in: Like I know what I'm doing on the machine which I use a big part of my time. I need full control. I know I have it with Linux, I just don't know how. And I feel stupid for it.
The moral of my story is: I'm scared to make a switch from something I'm so familiar with for years and years to something new, even though I hate the corporations behind the stuff I use.
Came in to say this. Linux on ARM is getting so close to daily driver ready.
Much more appealing to me is running Android apps on Linux officially. I don't want to use Android as my main system, but I sure as heck would love to have one or two Android apps available on my Linux Machines.
wayDroid does let you do that, in a fairly lightweight way (uses Linux namespaces iirc, similar to lxc.
It's still not full native, which would be even nicer. I play droidfish on my Linux machines using it.
Can't wait to have Google's telemetry injected into my Linux apps
an all-in-one app for running a Linux distro in a VM.
No, it won't
let you run Linux apps on Android
It will let you run Linux apps in Linux
semantics
*Clickbait
This could actually make Samsung dex/desktop mode actually useful
Plasma Mobile for Android? 🤔
Plasma Mobile for Android? 🤔
Doubtful. A VM doesn't have access to the underlying hardware (unless explicitly passed through).
I was thinking the same thing! But it would be running from a Debian VM so I'm not sure how realistic that is. And I doubt it would have access to android apps.
yeah I'll stick to the other way around
Google is still working on improving the Terminal app as well as AVF before shipping this feature. AVF already supports graphics and some input options, but it’s preparing to add support for backing up and restoring snapshots, nested virtualization, and devices with an x86_64 architecture.
This is the part I cared about. Can it run x86_64 programs, or is it just an ARM-compatible version of Debian?
If it can actually run x86_64 programs on ARM devices, then that's kinda fucking sick and would likely help the world transition to ARM. Like, fuck Google, but this sounds like a good thing, maybe?
It will be ${NATIVE_ARCH} debian or whatever distro, use box86 on top of it.
devices with an x86_64 architecture
Sounds like the opposite of what you want; you would want x86_64 code on devices with an ARM architecture.
But I didn't actually read the article, so maybe that line is poorly worded
Can it run x86_64 programs
The article sound like it will work for x86 devices running Android as well. I don't think this is about emulation.
That just sounds painfully inefficient (though we've been doing stuff like this for decades).
Arm isn't as efficient at higher cpu states as x86, and running a VM you're definitely going to up the cpu usage.
Still interesting to watch. And every use-case is unique. For the typical short-run process this is for, it'll probably be fine.
Irrelevant but the embed thumbnail terrifies me. why is the android fuzzy
Winter is coming
Aaand check!
Steam?
No, not unless you have an x86 Android device. While this will run Linux apps, it will be limited to the CPU architecture. Unless there is a x86 to ARM translation layer on Linux that I'm not aware of?
box86/box64, and there's also FEX-emu which is used by the Asahi Linux project (Linux on Apple Silicon macbooks).
Unless there is a x86 to ARM translation layer on Linux that I’m not aware of?
https://steamdb.info/app/3043620/
It appears Valve is working on Proton for arm64, I was wondering if this is to attend the mobile market, a new Index or maybe a smaller Steam Deck.
You can use QEMU's usermode emulation to transparently run ARM binaries with binfmt_misc on x86.
Steam requires it to be installed in an x86 environment, whether natively, or through emulation (and most x86 emulation has significant overhead and imperfections)
But java applications should run natively if you supply an appropriate build of java. I have an arm VPS that I've hosted several Minecraft servers on without any problems (other than those I created myself) and I also learned by accident that Microsoft's builds of OpenJDK actually work for (at least some) Minecraft versions that they aren't supposed to, so I have to wonder if that's a happy accident or intentional work by Microsoft
I've never tried it myself, but I think you can run full Linux VMs on Pixel phones already. A quick search brings up https://www.xda-developers.com/nestbox-hands-on/
Anyone have experience with this or similar options? Personally I've never used anything more advanced than Termux (which is lean and super cool, but not a full-blown VM).
You can pretty much chroot into a full debian installation, and even make kernel calls higher than that natively supported by your phone through
proot. It's a weird time to be alive.
Why not androids terminal since android is base on linux this one just downloads debian
Android userland is vastly different from 'linux' ie desktop linux people are used to. While there exists unshare/proot based containers (termux is an example) it might not be suitable for privileged features of kernel except for rooted devices.
Chromeos is much closer to desktop linux (init being upstart not systemd afaik) but still the 'linux' apps run inside crosvm to keep the locked down nature of the os intact.
makes sense and i thought termux uses the android terminal
chromeos yeah it makes sense aswell its linux with google spyware i seen some distros use sysvinit and runit instead of systemd (aka systemd-free distros)
Would it be like a Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL) but then for Android?
Interesting... but well.. Android isn't rooted, so will it use chroot or something like that? Or it will use a whole another kernel, complete VM?
Well, the summary pasted in the post mentions "VM" about a dozen times
For what I've read and heard mentioned by engineers when I worked for a phone manufacturer, Android already heavily uses virtualization. If I remember correctly it does that for the A/B partitions for updating, as well as for the multiple user support. But I'm very open to anyone with closer experience to the Android kernel than I have chiming in with better specifics
I just wish I had vim with a tiny keyboard that I hit with one finger
Need a bigger phone so you can hit it with 2 fingers instead of one :D
I need to drink water and have at least one meal a day. Big screen phone is a luxury that I can't afford
This could be really interesting. I don't personally see a use case for me to run Linux apps on Android. I could see myself running android apps on Linux though. Pretty happy to see this.
We already have termux for that, and on a rooted device you could do pretty much anything. This is pointless
Yeah but I'm unwilling to root my device, so hopefully this will allow me to do some cool stuff too.
Termux already does a lot of cool stuff without root. Makes due a decent ssh client in a pinch.
Yeah, I just installed Debian in Termux last night. I've got a Samsung phone with a locked down bootloader, so it's the best I can do.
This seems as much about converging Android and ChromeOS as anything.
Chromebooks have the advantage of being mostly a laptop with a keyboard, mouse-analog and largish screen... Phones don't really have that, so it seems an odd choice to me. Especially for a platform which is hostile to giving users permissions to install software on their own devices.
Android runs on a LOT more then just phones, BlissOS/Android x86, Arcades, casinos, cars etc.
If you dock your phone it will run with display keyboard and mouse. Not all phones support it though
IIRC, Android has always had native support for keyboards and mice. I remember connecting a bluetooth mouse to my old Nexus 4 running...Android 4, maybe 5? It worked out of the box. Saved my butt when the touch screen broke. :)
Can't say I've tried this in recent years but I think it still works, yeah?
Phones don’t really have that
I don't really see the need. It would be nice to have KVM but other than that I don't see much point.
I personally really like runing full chroot on my device, this will fit a similar role with more security and convenience.
Smells like they might be preparing to make their own portable console running Android.