Moving from the US to the EU soon... Any advice?
Moving from the US to the EU soon... Any advice?
Hi all!
We're very excited to move to Denmark soon as lifelong Americans. I have a good job lined up, and we're set on a place to live for a while.
Any advice from people who have done it, looked it up, had friends who have done it, etc? Just in general :)
Think of other topics and questions than work, Americans care too much about work outside of work.
Switch your phone apps to celsius and start your brain switching ASAP.
Knowing what country or region you're going to would help
Oh switching to metric is a great idea.
Denmark :)
American here, got stationed in Italy for a few years. Learning Celsius was easy with this in mind:
0 freezing
10 cool
20 nice
30 hot
40 swelteringIf you need to do the actual calculation, double the celsius value, subtract the tens digit (i.e. -10%), add 32. For example:
Double it: 20 * 2 = 40
Subtract the tens digit: 40 - 4 = 36
Add 32: 36+32 = 68
Never met an American who wants to "talk about work" out here. They all prefer to keep their free time work-discussion free.
Getting new friends in Denmark can be difficuelt at first. Many are reserved and needs to thaw up first. Do not expect colleagues to invite you home, if you are ysed to that. However, when people open up it is because they like and respect you. Danes are in general not superficial as Americans often can be. So remember, we are not unfriendly, just different from Americans :) Advise from a 100% Dane.
Lol, and Danes are definitely the most outgoing of the Nordics. I've found Danes to be pretty similar in terms of outgoing-ness to people from New England in the US; unlikely to start conversation with complete strangers, but certainly kind once you have that initial connection.
That's great, I like that a lot. As the commenter below said, sounds like New England to an extent. I'm fine with that and happy with less superficial
As a Norwegian: seconded. It’s tough to get real close and personal with Nordic people. We have smaller friend groups and don’t swap out friends often, but that is largely because we are quite loyal. So when you’re in, you’re in to stay.
Do you speak the local language, if not start getting courses now, even if many person are fluent in english, not everyone will want to speak English. (You know the joke about Parisian who don't know English if you start talking with them in English, but would switch to a perfect English if you have a slight foreign accent when speaking french)
Expect that even basic stuff won't work the same way as you're used too. It's already an issue when moving between two European countries, even basic stuff like what you can legally find on a lease or how to get health coverage will drastically change.
In southern Europe people are pretty touchy/tactile and an America would feel sexually harrassed, Nordic Europe is the other way around with pretty distant people where an American would pass for way too touchy/friendly
Learn to ride a bike, and expect to walk way more than in the US, also remember that even though winter are milder, Europe is way far up north than the US
Depending on where you'll live exactly, look up the local train and bus operator. If you're in a city, chances are, you won't even need a car most of the time.
Also get ready to install a different suite of apps. WhatsApp is big in europe, although Signal is obviously preferable when possible.
Yeah, I'll be in Copenhagen. I hope to not own a car at all! Just a bike and public transit
It's worth it. I'm almost two years in Germany. Wouldn't move back for a million dollars (although at 3 I could be bought). Work on the local language, volunteer or other community involvement activities, treat it like the new home it is. We're fortunate to be able to move to a new country, try to be a part of improving it and earning your spot there. I'm even more fortunate to be white, male, straight etc - assuming you're at least some of those things, do your best to counter the anti-immigration fear mongering that comes out of the political right. It effects you now, but more importantly it's ramping up and it'll effect people less fortunate far worse.
Hope you love it and welcome to Europe.
That's great advice. I'm really excited to experience it and really embrace it. Thank you!
Plus one for taking language lessons. Even if you don't plan on getting fluent, it will help you settle in a lot more
In my own experience learning Dutch when living in The Netherlands (were, like in Denmark, almost everybody speaks good English) you learn very little and very slow with formal lessons and a lot very fast in situations were you have to manage with the local language (basically sink or swim).
I spent years living there with only basic Dutch and then ended up in a small company were I was the only non-Dutch person and the meetings were conducted in Dutch and within 1 to 2 months my Dutch language skills had taken a massive leap forward.
I also get similar effects with other languages I speak when I go visit those countries: persist in talking to the locals in the local language and that will push your language knowledge up.
That said, at the very beginning language lessons will give you the basic structure for the language, but for going beyond the basics I find that just being forced to use it yields the fastest improvements.
(Might wanna try to start watching local TV at some point too)
By the way, if the Danish are anything like the Dutch, they'll pick up from the accent that a person is American and switch to English. Do not follow them! Keep talking in Danish even if it feels like it's pretty bad and hard to use. When I lived in The Netherlands most of my British acquaintances had really poor dutch speaking skills even after over a decade there because of this effect of people picking up their accent and switching to English.
Including which country could help :)
Fair enough, moving to Denmark!
You are welcome! You may visit the danish instance at feddit.dk
Just as Denmark, it is not very large but plenty of people willing to help, mixed with some degree of Danish sarcasm
I haven't been there, but get a bike!
lucky.
- learn the language AND CUSTOMS
- don't hang out in foreigner/english bubbles
- don't assume anything works the way it does in the US (from gasoline and driving to medical to government). There are lots of little things that seem like they obviously must be done X way but aren't in other countries
- be careful with any investments. It's very easy to end up with PFICs which are punitively taxed (making retirement vehicles here in Japan outside of the national pension prohibitive for me, for instance).
- celebrate
- bring any snacks that you can legally bring but they can't legally sell (some things with food dyes, etc. if you really like them are banned in some countries to produce/sell but not eat).
I got to disagree with the "learn the language and customs" thing. I live (also born and raised) in one of the most culturally diverse cities in America: Germantown, Maryland. I couldn't be prouder, and I also couldn't care less if you don't speak English.
Be yourself. You are welcome here.
That probably depends on the country, but I don’t think you should omit learning language, even as English native, even if everyone around you speak your native one.
I've seen that several times already in Poland. Been around a guy from India who was practically monolingual English speaker (his local language is fading away, he should technically still speak it due to his grandparents, but doesn’t or speaks very little) and he straight up refused to learn Polish because he „seen no value” in it, it’s not an easy language to learn and he'd rather just put that time and effort into a MMO game. He only attended lessons to learn to pass an exam that will allow him staying in the country, with no intention to actually learn how to speak. Poles are quite often excited to speak English with somebody as everyone knows importance of it and wants to practice IRL. Everyone around him, like his gf, her family, coworkers in corpo, accept that and they all speak English well, so no obligation on his side. He only knows how to tell cashier that he'll pay with a debit card and it takes a single word. Well, that’s his choice you can say, but then it was pretty annoying at times to have him around. Imagine standing in a circle joking around and every two sentences that guy asks „What? What did he/she say?”, and someone attempts to translate it to English, but the joke doesn’t work or is not understandable even after translating because it refers to something else in the language, culture, memes, slang etc. Either learn it or expect to be disconnected and excluded at times. That’s all good to tolerate newcomers who don’t yet know much about the culture and language, but it doesn’t look very good to me if that’s a guy who lives here for 8 years and doesn’t have plans moving away anytime soon.
The EU isn’t the US.
Most countries in Europe have this idea of integration where the foreigner learns and adopts the language and culture of the country. You’ll see lots of discussions of “failed” integration of foreigners, especially in Germany.
I think this is still a type of colonialism where they think there culture is better and the foreigner must change, rather than the other way around.
I think the US is a bit better in this regard as there is this idea of a cultural mixing pot and foreigners aren’t expected to “integrate”.
It's not just communicating, it's also stuff for general living, like recognizing road signs, paying bills, dealing with government paperwork, ordering food in restaurants, etc. They won't always have an English translation beside it, nor do they have an obligation to have it. Same goes for people too.
Say for example, a Japanese just showed up in your hometown, knowing not a lick of English, and planning to live here long term. I'm sure people in your hometown are more than willing to help, but how much stuff in your general life is in English? Surely you can't expect someone to be able to help them around 24/7, and with a language barrier too.
You gotta know that not everything is going to accommodate for you in foreign places. OP might be able to do well enough since people in Denmark probably speak English well in general. But if you want to truly know the people, their culture, or even form deep connections with some, you have to do some work, and language is a first big step.
This is the absolute worst advice for coming to a European country. It's probably different in Denmark but for some countries or cities at least you won't be able to get through the bureaucracy needed to legally immigrate without speaking the language. Even in offices that mainly help foreigners you may find the employees don't speak English. And if you want to be there long-term, good luck making real connections if you don't speak the language.
In the middle now.
Wife is already Swedish so I'm doing it on easy mode, plus job is remote.
Politeness, wow, that's tough to get used to. Trying to fix my silicon valley manners and I'm still coming off as the biggest asshole.
Government is more involved in your life, but it's not too bad, just something you get used to, ups and downs, they mostly try to help.
Amazon is shit, thats a thing for me, but you manage.
They have a food culture.
No, you may have misunderstood me, I did not say they have food in their culture, I mean a significant part of their societal culture revolves around food.
Did not understand this, used to Door dashing and eating to get by, they don't do that, food matters to them, spending half a day cooking is just a thing you do, it's not work to them anymore than watching YouTube is.
Otherwise you'll get by, just try to tone down your socialization reflexes, they're more reserved and our outgoing nature can scare them shitless if they're not ready for it.
Unless work is helping you out, expect to have difficulties opening up bank account in EU due to FATCA. Lots of banks don't want to deal with that, so they'll outright reject Americans.
As others have said, try to learn the language, at least a little. Although I'd say 90% of the population will know English.
Take ferry over to Germany if you want cheaper beer/wine/alc. The Swedes go to Denmark, and Danish go to Germany :).
Q: will you be returning to the US?
They are helping set up a bank account, thankfully.
Yeah, for sure we are leaning in and gonna try to learn Danish. Worst case my wife and I have a secret code language to ourselves in the future :)
We don't intend to return, but anything could happen in life
Hej Frank!
Welcome in advance!
Where are you gonna live? You don't need to specify city, but perhaps approximate destination? Jylland, Fyn, Sjælland? And which part?
Which line of work?
Indeed, try to learn Danish even though it is a ridiculous language. I believe there are even free courses, although I am not absolutely sure. Here's a few words to get you started:
Hej/godmorgen/goddav' = hello/good morning/howdy (last word especially in Jutland)
Farvel = goodbye
Tak = thank you
Velbekomme = you are welcome
Undskyld = sorry
Undskyld mig = excuse me
Ingen problem = no worries
Jeg hedder Frank = my name is Frank
Godt at møde dig = nice to meet you
Vi ses/hav det godt = see you/take care
Hav en god dag = have a good dayAnd remember! Free health care! Free schools and education! Although you will pay higher taxes, lol.
Hope you will enjoy! And feel free to ask questions. I live very near Aarhus in Eastern Jutland.
EDIT: formatting some how went wrong, just realised now. Sorry! Fixed.
Ah this is great! We are doing some Danish, and will continue to learn it. We'll be in Copenhagen, which will make leaning on our English a little easier.
I'm an engineer, and my work will be all in English, which is a great way to start.
I spent ~$8,000 USD on shoulder surgery this year. I can't wait for healthcare lol
Don't bring a truck or guns with you. Change some dollars for euros. Remember that the US has an insane tax system that follows you abroad and you still have to file taxes in the US in addition to the country you live in.
yes, be very careful of PFICs. I can't use any of Japan's versions of ISA/IRA because they all end up being PFICs which are awful to deal with on the US and more than destroy any tax advantage of putting money in them.
Since you are moving to Denmark: flee! Take a car and drive north to seek refuge in Sweden. Once you make it there you are safe, but you never know, the Danes could invade any minute. Keep driving north until you start seeing reindeer walking around like they own the place. Move into a cabin in the woods and never look back. The Danes can't reach you there.
We don't really have to worry about the Danes invading. We can just move the inventory of all the Systembolaget stores in Scania to other parts of Sweden so they won't get long.
It's a trick. There are no roads north out of Denmark.
- Language is by far the most important door opener, so put in one hour of learning every day for at least a year.
- Mingle to get out of your comfort zone: Go to after-work parties and flea markets, take public transit. Use hobbyist/ meet-up apps. Read/ watch the local news.
- Don't expect to be invited, especially not to people's homes. People might also be uncomfortable being invited to your home. Meeting in a public place is almost always the better option, unless you've gotten to know someone really well.
- Irony/ sarcasm don't translate very well between cultures.
- Europe has some lousy weather, so get watertight coats and waterproof your shoes and backpacks.
- Take it slow.
- Also: Enjoy it! Europe is a fantastic little place at the crossroads between Asia and Africa and I would never want to leave.
All of this sounds so exciting. Thanks for the reply.
UK inhabitant here. Is being invited to someone's house a casual thing in the US? I don't think I've ever been invited by someone who isn't a close friend.
I lived in Italy and Germany and it does happen here. Mostly with friends you already know reasonably well though.
Greece here, we invite people to our homes all the time, even if we don't know them very well.
Time to learn a new language, unless you're moving to Ireland or Malta I guess. Tons of people come to Germany and are shocked when not everyone speaks English.
Anyway, I think you'll get better answers if you specify a country. The EU is quite diverse, so I don't think there's a ton of advice that'll be true everywhere in the EU.
Malta
Maltese is an awesome language!
So is Irish, but the point was that English is an official and widely spoken language in both countries.
Tons of people come to Germany and are shocked when not everyone speaks English.
It's funny, I more often seem to read so many stories of people saying "Finally, I can practice my German with someone!"
And the German is like "I speak English it's okay." Lol
I think it's exactly those stories that give people a false impression when they come here. It's not that they are false, most of the time you'll certainly find people who can speak decent English. A tourist probably won't need any German, but when it comes to living here long-term, dealing with bureaucracy, finding a job or making friends, knowing German is pretty essential.
You could finally visit the only real Legoland in Billund of course!
I don't know if Denmark does it, but Norwegians love to use week numbers in corporate/education environments for scheduling instead of using dates like normal people, so you might end up in a situation where you have to check the calender to find out what date Monday week 42 might be.
... and once you're used to it, you'll realise how much easier that is :)
I've lived almost my entire life in Norway, and I don't think it's much easier than saying a date
Create a second gmail account when you get there. Many apps that you will need there don't exist in the US app/playstore, so you will need the second account to download them.
Take me with you?
Do everything you can to learn the language quickly. Take any language class offer you get. It will make life much easier in a new country, especially if you're looking to make friends. Immerse yourself in the culture immediately.
Remember that Europeans, especially Scandinavians, are not as openly friendly as Americans. They can seem cold and distant at first. It's not because they are not friendly, it's just a cultural feature. Once you get to know them, most open up and they are awesome.
On financials, keep all your bank accounts and credit cards open in the US and use a US address for them (and get a credit card with no foreign transaction fees). Don't advertise to the US banks that you moved overseas. Just use a family member's or friend's address. Also note that European banks don't have rewards credit cards, so I only use US rewards cards with no foreign transaction fees when living overseas. They'll send you replacement cards overseas if you ask them to, even when your account address is in the US.
If you don't already have retirement IRA accounts set up (not just 401k), do it before you leave the US. Also, open a brokerage account (e.g. Schwab or Fidelity) with a US address before you leave and don't change the address to your overseas address, ever. Leave as is. It can be very hard for Americans to invest because foreign banks are required to report different things to US authorities about customers who are American citizens. They don't want the bother, so they may not allow you to open an account there. And once you move it will be much harder to open the account in the US. Use a service like Wise to move funds cheaply to your US accounts for investments and paying off credit cards.
Get a cheap eSIM phone subscription with a US phone number for two-step verification abroad. You can use Wifi-calling to connect.
Finally, remember that you are eligible to vote in the US as a US citizen living overseas. You'll still be registered as a voter in the state and county you moved overseas from. You'll use your most recent address, and you don't have to have any attachment to that address any longer. It's only for voting purposes. If you're not already registered to vote when you move overseas, you'll also use your most recent address to register to vote. More information here: https://www.fvap.gov/citizen-voter.
Good luck!
Do your best to immerse yourself . When you view the USA from the outside or return to visit, you will ask yourself, "WTF is going on here?"
I'm in it asking this.
Don't bring your gun, also public transport should be good, so using a car might not always be necessary / the best option.
Plus one for taking language lessons. Even if you don't plan on getting fluent, it will help you settle in a lot more
All round great advice. For a bit more silly one: record yourself opening the window for the first time in Denmark.
(iykyk)
Out of curiosity, did you find work in Denmark so that you could move, or is current work sending you over?
The former :)
Very cool. Have fun!
Don't walk in the bike path.
4th. of July is celebrated in Rebild, which could be a nice excuse to drive through the country and meet other Americans in Denmark.
Just dont pull a gun when some gets unauthorized on your property.
Buy fancy feast and put in on some toast. Now you know what danish food is like.
Remember, they’re called just pastries over there.
What's called pastries though.
Danish pastries…
I don't have any advice, but there is something I can say. Next generation UE, investigate it
Why?
Bring food and a fan, you'll need both! /s
Pilsner Urquel is a damn fine beer.
And from Czech, not Denmark. Are you thinking of Carlsberg? Mikkeler is the brand you recommend to people going to Denmark
Czechia is where I learned to love it, but I found it in Austria, Germany and the Netherlands as well.
It'll be tempting, but don't try to drive there.
I'm so, so sorry. Also, if Trump is reelected, FLEE.
We're moving away from the US, did you misread that or are you suggesting we should flee further than Europe?