It really is like this
It really is like this
I mean... I kinda get it, but nowadays it's starting to get absurd.
(EDIT: This was supposed to be a "blow air out my nose and get on with my life" meme...)
What about iThing ?
If you ask me, I would explode out of anger; but I think others... would also explode, but out of euphoria.
As a Canadian: fuck American products. Y'all want a trade war with us, fuck your shit.
All that to say, it's understandable to be angry at and suspicious of products made by antagonistic nations.
Life in Canada is about to get super hard. Seriously fuck the US.
Y’all want a trade war with us
We really don't. Even by America-is-racist standards, we've historically only been pissy about Mexico. Tariffing Canada used to be a punchline to political jokes.
I don't want a trade war. I love Canada. Most Americans on Lemmy didn't vote for Trump you know?
It was hyperbolic.
Canada exists because the united states exist. You produce no products of mention. Geographically, canada is a research colony. US is still a slave colony.
Wat
Uh, have you heard of a company called Bombardier? They also make a lot of games and TV.
without canadian raw materials, US can't build basically anything
all the rare metals and minerals are mined up here
Wheat is a pretty big export from Canada. Over $8B per year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_exports_of_Canada
As a Venezuelan,Yeah!! fuck both, the US and China! 🔥🔥
As an American, i'm forced to concur. I wish it weren't so.
40 or so years ago, the hip ingrained racism was being scared that the Japanese would take over everything. That caused cyberpunk to have cool japanese aesthetics and in turn influenced media like Akira. I just hope today's racism at least also ends up looking cool.
Living in a sanctuary city, plenty of people around me are Chinese. I’ve also been enjoying the current state of Chinese gaming. Of course…I play those games on devices I can sandbox.
Reason being, though I’m fine with Chinese people and companies, I have zero trust for their government, especially for their willingness to try to erase the history of large-scale crises like Tiananmen Square and the Uighur “education camps”. No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Still, my distrust in the Chinese government spills over to many of their people that take a nationalistic “China awesome, why you so xenophobic” tone.
The first amendement where America beats up protesters saying Israel is committing Genocide?
You don't understand! Critising the actions of the ccp is sinophobic!!!!
spoiler
Hopefully obvious sarcasm.
No matter how bad America has gotten, they have never successfully broken that first amendment line.
Trump is gonna have another go at it. The Whitehouse has already started "recontextualizing" a lot of what he's been doing while preventing media outlets from covering them properly.
Influence campaigns in full effect this week, even on Lemmy.
Me, as a American: Huh, we just set up camps in Guantanamo Bay to pick up immigrants? That's fucked up.
Also Me, as a American: China does some shit with the uyghu? That's fucked up.
Society: (ignoring Guantanamo bay) Yeah fuck China!
Also me, as a American: openAI stole art. Wow.
Also me, as a American: Deepsink stole from OpenAI? Hilarious.
Society: Hey fuck you for supporting China! You can't even write Tiananmen square on there! Winnie the Pooh! Winnie the Poooooooh!
Yes, China not bad, China good. You should like China cause they don't do bad things to their citizens and anything you've heard to the contrary is just western propaganda.
I really don't care how much the US complains about Chinese nationalism when they pull the same crap in practically every 3rd world country for the sake of holding power.
There's a reason why so many 3rd world immigrants in the US feel unfazed by Trump because they essentially grew up in some Washington backed imperialist government which was way worse, hence the reason they emigrated.
They understand that neither country is some beacon of hope, they're just two big competitors that keep each other somewhat in check. The tradeoff you get for joining the US is freedom of expression and representation (mostly) and the tradeoff you get for joining China is faster upward momentum and social stability (mostly). Its better to have at least two choices instead of one which in reality would be none.
Yes there will always be sketchy things you probably shouldn't touch, but we're really out here defending internet censorship over TikTok as if the NSA doesn't have 2/3rd of the modern world permanently bugged.
As an ethnic chinese in South East Asia, there's two kind of chinese i've met, "China is the best country in the world! CCP is the best because they take good care of all the chinese everywhere! Everything about that country is good!" and "China is the worst country in the world! CCP is the worst because they censor everything and lie about everything! Everything about that country is dogshit!", rarely in between.
Sounds a lot like my experience with Americans re: their government.
I guess propaganda can be pretty insidious.
My stance is a democratic China would probably be as prosperous as Taiwan and my family wouldn't have to leave.
Me and my brother hates CCP
My parents love CCP
Grandparents also love CCP (I assume, I don't talk to them much)
Every time my parents praise CCP, I just be like: "So you agree with the CCP? Why didn't you abort me like they were trying to force you to?" (I'm talking about the One Child Policy btw) Then my dad said 国情不同 (state of the country is different) as an excuse, country was poor and needed to lower birth rates. And my mom started saying how much she "sacrificed" for me, lile bruh just conpletely steer away the topic. Yea sure thank you for your sacrifice and the millions of Yuan RMB they paid as a fine. But why steer the topic?
So they love CCP, simultaneously disobeyed a core CCP policy of birth control? 🤔 Doublethink much?
May she she should've, instead of hiding, just let them take her and let them forcefully abort me, maybe I wouldn't have to deal with this fucked up world with dictators everywhere, state capitalism disguised as "Socialism", and also democratic capitalist countries devolving into fascism (ahem USA ahem). Man fuck this world
Maybe I shouldn't have been born, less surffering in the world 🤷♂️
It sounds to me like your parents are engaging with nuance in a complicated world, rather than boiling everything down to either "this is good" or "this is bad".
ETA: You're welcome to downvote me, I don't mind, the points don't matter. But I prefer discussion. Tell me why I'm wrong so we can have a conversation!
If it helps in any way, every country in the world has their set if problems, but in essence it evolves around the fact that many/most people are incapable of realising they were wrong and change their behaviour and voting.
One of Germany's issues for example is that while industrialization has made the country prosperous it also made it demitral to the environment. Those that lived in the golden times and worked for it naturally don't want to miss out their hard-earned pensions. However the younger generations have to work even harder to finance their pensions as they make up much of the population. Meanwhile the world's environment is fucked and we need to swiftly transform the country which is expensive all the while dealing with rising nationalism in the world slowly rising in heat and already discharging into war around european neighbourhood. And yet the same lucky generations are calling us weak and lazy, but insist on voting parties that don't have any tiny ounce of interest to work to deal with the problems we face and actually oppose working towards an actual solution.
So yeah, i am honestly quite hopeless for the future myself, but I force myself to at least try to change it - I mean sticking our heads in the sand only helps the assholes doesn't it?
For what it's worth, you're not alone. I think I'm going with the whole, "I must outlive my enemies" ideology for coping, because fuck it. But it's always refreshing to hear from like-minded people, when sometimes I feel so helpless to change anything. Ignorance has run rampant, but at least I know there's friends all over the world
The most common I see is "I love China and their culture is neat, but their government is evil".
Inside me are two wolves
One thinks Chinese tech is cool and innovative
The other hates fascist dictatorships
*both of the wolves are gay
Hello, I'm the other wolf
Those are really Based wolves. Can I borrow them?
Why did you eat 2 wolves.
Jk. But you can appreciate Chinese innovation and simultaneously criticize the CCP, its not mutually exclusive.
You may or may not think China is "authoritarian" but how on earth are they fascist?
Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement,[1][2][3] characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Far right? Hm, maybe not. Otherwise: Check, check, quasi-check, check, check, check, ...
I think many might reference the Uyghur genocide + extreme authoritarianism to explain why they call China fascist. I personally, am not educated on the persecution of the Uyghur genocide part, so I'm not so sure.
But China definitely has hints of nationalism and "former glory" or whatever when they start talking about Taiwan and the South China Sea. Sooo ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
China isn’t fascist though? They are just a shitty authoritarian state.
You might want to go to the doctor
Accurate
Uwu
Let's be honest: the only reason for this is the oppressive chinese government, dead stop
I think part of it is being extra defensive considering our tankie neighbors... I don't have any issues with the people of China, the culture of China, etc, etc.
I've always thought that everyone was on the same page about China's oppressive government, but now it feels like it needs to be said, as there are people actively arguing in its favor.
Naw the same shit happens on Reddit and Facebook and every other place that isn't TikTok or XHS. There's a chart that shows Americans' opinion of China being more or less 50/50 until 2015ish and then turning sharply negative after the trade war/propaganda blitz against them that started during Trump's first term.
I hope that in publicly questioning the narratives I've been fed all my life I am not assumed to be advocating for China.
I just like to try to think critically, compare disparate sources, and not pretend that I'm somehow immune to propaganda.
It seems like people are quick to try to label me a tankie these days for engaging with the world in that way, but I don't consider myself a tankie. It feels like a thought-terminating cliche.
Don't forget things like China blatantly stealing IP fro the west.
And rich Chinese buying up land in western countries.
And rich Chinese students going to universities in the west and then buying/cheating their way through their degree.
And (this might come under your point) destroying domestic industries of western countries by flooding the market with cheap inferior products.
For me its kinda opposite.
I'm ethnic Chinese and have this bad feeling about Japanese things. Like I do not hate Japanese people, I just have this bad feeling about their culture and society. I feel like they are very conservative. Like people say "Japanese people are so nice", I get Sino-Japanese war flashbacks (well not exactly "flashbacks", I wasn't alive at that time, but y'all know what I mean), I don't think I'd feel welcome if I ever went to Japan as a tourist, even as a US citizen. Japan always has this weird anti-foreigner sentinment, especially the anti-Chinese sentinment. They (allegedly, according to the news) deny the Nanjing Massacre in schools, erasing it from history books. Some stores (allegedly) have a "No Chinese People or Dogs" sign on their door. Every time people praise Japan like "they are so punctual", I remember the train accidents that same "punctuality" that it caused. And the guilty until proven innocent sentinment that is almost as bad as authoritarian countries (like China).
Although, Anime is kinda cool tho, not a weeb but I watched a few. I just don't like the "fan service" things they put in Anime.
In contrast, while I do get sus of Chinese electronics, that more about CCP and spyware, less about the fact that they are "China". The fact that they are "China" doesn't bother me. And I'd get sus too if a US company got too close to the NSA. But if I get a Chinese phone, I'd have both CCP and NSA spyware, so I rather have less spyware than more.
Also, the US trying to ban DJI (and other Chinese made drones) is such a dumb thing. That is the type of "China Bad" sentinment I just fucking hate, its not even about CCP anymore. Like, I could use drones with a second smartphone that's airgapped and not have any data leaks. Or use a remote with a built in screen. Besides, why does the government care so much, drones aren't allowed into military bases, everywhere else is just public data. Google Maps already hsve the entire US mapped, and even images of entire streets, more detail than any drone can gather. And a CCP spy wouldn't be obeying US laws anyways and even if they ban DJI, spies would just use a DIY drone to get in to military bases. They are essentially trying to legislate away people's hobbies. wtf lol
Recently, the new Indiana Jones game highlighted Japan’s aerial bombardment of Shanghai before WW2. It was a nice reminder to me that Japan is hardly an innocent nation, no matter how much they’re praised for today.
The Yakuza games also have some pretty good focus on how they treat the homeless, including demographics of Chinese and Korean immigrants that get marginalized.
The electronics bit is where I’m concerned, in part because their aggression is not limited to government, but also private citizens. They’ve previously attempted to repatriate immigrants via coercion and forced abductions.
The racism in Japan isn’t outward, they keep it to themselves. You wouldn’t even notice it if you went there as a tourist, since they stay polite. The “no gaijin allowed” places are rare unless you want to visit a certain type of establishment 😉 Japan has systemic racism against ethnic Chinese citizens, but the average Japanese person isn’t really racist to Chinese people and if they are it’s from ignorance rather than hatred. Japan is one of the top foreign destinations for tourists from China. It wouldn’t be if Chinese people weren’t welcome.
You’d have a tougher time in South Korea. Where they actually say racist shit to your face.
This is an interesting take. I've been to Japan as a tourist once, and I can tell it was probably one of my best trips I've ever made (the sheer amount of novelty and getting around the people was really cool), and I can attest the people were very nice to me. But I can also tell, if I was part of the work force, the sentiment would be different. I did never see signs against Chinese people anywhere BTW.
As for the "China bad" part. Check how people brigade on shitter to "cancel people out" (very definition of cancel culture) and you quickly see that some people LOVE the mob mentality. This is also what is going on people going after stuff such as dji for no reason (but I will say straight up, I am not sure if I would trust network equipment easily. Same for me actually applies to cisco as well)
The mob mentality part and the self-justice and eye-for-an-eye-mentality is something I, as a European, find quite appalling. Not only in the Chinese but (South-) Korean culture as well. Granted I barely know more about their respective cultures than you can see from their exported tv-shows and other media. Frankly even "Squid games" made me sick at times. And the way some Korean novels and anime praise acts of completely over the top acts of revenge is not something I can identify with. However there seem to be more similarities between both countries than they care to admit.
On another note, has anyone watched the sequel to Initial D? Holy fucking hell, the damn nationalism is way too obvious
There really is no justification to simp for any country/government. They are all pretty terrible and genocidal.
Nationalism, and especially jingoism, are very dangerous indeed.
these are the reasons I think this happens:
- their numerous accusations of spyware
- their government being fucked up (especially their censorship)
- being known for making a lot of mass-produced garbage for cheap
- the working conditions in those factories being horrible
- regular racism (which may be caused by the above)
edit: reworked comment into bulleted list instead of run-on sentence
- their government being fucked up (especially their censorship)
I would love to discuss this with anyone that's willing. If their government is as awful and fucked up as everyone says why does the average Chinese citizen generally have a better life than the average American in their respective societal totem pole (in cities specifically) ?
They have far more purchasing power for food, rent. Their healthcare is affordable. While censorship is a thing towards certain topics, there certainly isn't a lack of discussion. They have far better public transit systems, far more parks, and public utilities, absolute ownership (no property tax).
To me it seems we're continuously demonizing the lives of those we don't understand who are actually far better off than most of us in the states.
I lived and worked outside Shanghai for a bit, but it was a while ago and probably has changed a good bit. What makes you think their lives are far better off than those in the states?
Not necessarily disagreeing, but it absolutely was not the case 15 years ago. American life is on a downhill though, zero argument there.
I would love to discuss this with anyone that’s willing. If their government is as awful and fucked up as everyone says why does the average Chinese citizen generally have a better life than the average American in their respective societal totem pole (in cities specifically) ?
Because the social contract of 21st century authoritarian societies is "We give you prosperity, you do politics through gov-approved channels." Punishment for dissent depends on how insecure the state feels right now.
On the plus side, the government cares about your prosperity. As long as it lasts, elites can divide power among themselves however they like.
On the minus -- society doesn't control its government (power transition happens by committee, not elections) and it can't force any kind of change when elites are against it. Modern states have so much repression power, they can shut down any activism when they don't mind bloodstains.
And when prosperity ends, the new contract will be "Do as we say and nobody gets tortured". source: Im russian
I would love to discuss this with anyone that’s willing. If their government is as awful and fucked up as everyone says why does the average Chinese citizen generally have a better life than the average American in their respective societal totem pole (in cities specifically) ?
Many Chinese people want to go to western countries. Nowadays there might be less people wanting to emmigrate, but when I left, going to a western country was a common sentinment. Some want to study in a western University and bring back the knowledge home, others want to emmigrate permanently. My Aunts and Uncles in China are still on a waitlist trying to come. Now with trump, I'm not sure they'll ever get a visa, or if the US would deteriorate and get worse than China with this fascism trajectory that the US is having. China is getting better as time goes on, but still not good enough that people are still trying to see better life abroad.
TLDR is that: China isn't inherently worse, Western countries aren't inherently better. It's all a roll of dice. But in the US (and especially other western places like the EU) that "roll of dice" is often better than the "roll of dice" in China. China has way too many people and there is more competition for jobs. Not to mention, the GaoKao (高考) is like 10 times harder than the US SAT/ACT.
The entire country tried to revolt in 1989 and millions of citizens were killed by their own military. People who speak out lose access to most services and can't even sign up for online platforms.
Right now China is experiencing a massive homelessness crisis because their assigned homes aren't in the places they live and work.
Quite frankly, I think you're failing to see that a major part of American culture, a literal founding principle, is "live free or die". Americans are obviously not going to take that censorship as just a small downside.
Quality of life is less important than freedom.
absolute ownership (no property tax).
This is also just a lie. They don't own land.
I spend a lot of time here on Lemmy and gaming outside of my job and my sidejob and I haven't personally been exposed to these cases of Sinophobia. I know there are some people in my town that definitely are deeply Sinophobic but that's probably just a regular broad Xenophobia thats always been around. Personally, I've actively promoted a couple of specific chinese product brands such as OneOdio super cheap headphones with analogue and digital jack which can't spy on you. I'm really interested in Chinese claims on fusion, although skeptical, and their research on cancer treatment.
Now, Chinese Government Thing, on the other hand. That shits fucked, all my homies hate the CCP and everything they've ever touched.
Sinophobia
I was born in PRC, when I arrived in the US, in school, kids commonly say "Ching Chong" to make fun of me 😕. Not too frequent, but frequent enough that I get annoyed. Chinese-American kids wouldn't even stand up for me against racism. Like even Black Americans stand up for each other. There is just this lack of Asian-American solidarity. And this in blue cities btw. I'm not even sure if people saying "Ni Hao" is a genuine attempt at communicatiom or just mocking, because they say it without the 4 tones of Mandarin, and that sounds like the voice you use to mock people.
Probably less racism than what Black people had to face during Jim Crow, but nevertheless, common enough I don't exacly feel welcome, especially not after "China Virus" remarks by the felon president.
Its also weird. Black kids would side with White kids to bully me, like bruh, did they forget that Black Americans had to face a lot of racism, why are they now turning it around and continuing the racism, why not just stop that. I thought through experience, they would learn to be more open minded.
Also if you go on Reddit, there is a widespread sentinment to call Covid "China Virus" or "Wuhan Virus". Why the fuck. Just use Covid, or SARS-Cov-2.
Anyways, sorry for the rant.
There's definitely very low Asian-American solidarity. The worst bullying I experienced was from a group of Korean American kids in middle school. They would say terrible things to me and call me the c***k word. That hurt the most and I can never forget that experience. Once I hit puberty and grew bigger (I'm pretty muscular) no one messed with me anymore.
There were some mean kids of other races, but most people regardless of race (include Asians) are nice. I've been in the US for almost 40 years now and as an adult I've never experienced any direct racism towards me and I live in a red state (but in a big city). There are some people that didn't feel pleasant to be around with, but luckily as an adult I can choose who to be with and who to avoid.
It's just another cold war, history books will discuss it as such.
Exactly 👏👏
Ehh i dont like the obsession with one of the most racist and xenophobic countries today, even tho i know its not why they like japan.
As we all know, there has never been any chinese app trending in the US. This because people hate the Chinese and everything they touch /s
the only thing I've noticed that people care more about a Chinese thing is a Russian thing.
It do be like that with manga/manhua tbh. I still prefer Korean webcomics because I like my trash but... It's been ages since I read a decent Chinese webcomic or manhua. They are so fucking trash. I'm sure there are some good ones but... Yeah.
MC: looks at a dude
Dude: YOU HAVE DISRESPECTED ME AND MY FAMILY YOU ARE COURTING DEATH
MC: obliterates dude and his entire family (women and children included)
Chinese yuri and yaoi goes hard but most of the good ones are webnovels. Heavenly officials blessing has a chinese anime adaptation tho.
Chinese studios on their way to create yet another Wuxia donghua
That's the problem, I love wuxia, I love stupid power levels and all that, I love my trash comics. It's the story they tell alongside that that irks me to no end.
Close to zero decent dialogue between people besides shitty villains talking big until the hero flips his eyelash and suddenly everyone is bowing to them. There's no interesting characters, no banter.
To give some examples of wuxia done right (I like the top batch more but the other ones are alright):
Return of the mount hua sect Infinite levelling: murim Return of the crazy demon Nano machine Absolute sword sense Star instructor or something
I reincarnated as the crazed heir Path of the shaman
Half wuxia: Murim login
All of these have a mc with personality, there's decent banter between characters, there's an interesting plot, plot changes make sense...
There's also the "dungeon" theme with portals that grew in popularity since solo levelling (around then) that is basically the same trash plot with another power level vector.
You're gonna lose it op when you find out how many big video games are owned (wholey or partly) by tencent
I... Already know, and I didn't lose anything (though, they mostly only buy actions and companies, Which is a "thing" Microsoft also does).
I used to wonder how Japanese media was so bad compared to their neighbours (storytelling wise) then I started watching Thai programmes and Japanese could definitely be worse
Media is one of Japans major exports and allowed them to build major metropolitan areas even though the end of WWII left them broken and impoverished.
Ever seen the Chinese localization of Tom and Jerry? They voice over everything and add a ton of sound effects so there's no confusion. Politics aside, who is exactly are they protecting by banning zombies and ghosts. Well, they can have zombies, but not too gory and they can't call them zombies.
I like Thunderbolt Fantasy, so I should like Pili Fantasy(Taiwan), but it's way too much soap opera. Thunderbolt is a nice balance between something new and the pacing of a 12 episode anime.
South Korean stuff bothers me. They haven't become disillusioned capitalism yet, so the subtext misses for me. I can't tell what the point of Tower of God is. The harem stuff they put out puts Japan to shame.
South Korean stuff bothers me. They haven't become disillusioned capitalism yet
What did you think of the episode of Squid game where everyone escapes the evil death games, and then realises that they actually like the evil death games better than normal capitalism?
Probably because China has a reputation for lying about their products, using cheap components, ridiculous levels of censorship, and a poor record on silly things like human rights
Wow, that makes no point. Neat.
Except on Antiques Roadshow follow-up episodes!
(Anything Chinese has gone up in price, Japanese not so.)
china is an entire economy based on intellectual property thievery and human slavery. the ccp are evil, and dangerous to all of humanity. go try your bullshit someplace else.
I'm sorry, "entire economy" based on "human slavery"? That's absurd. Yes the CCP abuses the fuck out of the Uighurs and it's awful, but this is insane hyperbole.
The US also uses slavery, very literally, very out in the open and doesn't hide it to the point that the details are fuzzy and unclear.
It does it both very directly via prison inmates being used for labour for peanuts against their will by corporations in agreement with corpos that run their prisons and in the less direct way where the fed and state governments don't do shit about/give subsidies to farmers that hoover up disenfranchised illegals to stack em and pack em in sheds so they can work their fields for fuck all.
Both of those are such mainstream facts there's even a John Oliver episode about both topics from years ago.
Would you say the "entire economy" of the US is based on "human slavery"?
I doubt it.
Not to mention you bring that up alongside "intellectual property thievery", are those two really of even similar magnitude? Surely "human slavery" is a bit more serious than downloading a picture of mickey mouse off Google images, nah?
You're literally describing how US companies turn a profit.