I don't care if settings are done by GUI or terminal, I just want clear and concise descriptions for specific settings and not a condescending "go read the man pages you fucking noob". I've been fucking with Linux for over a decade now; a lack of clear documentation is not my problem, and at this point is unacceptable.
Especially when the settings are named the same/similar as other apps but do different things
Just fucking comment line quickly what the fucking thing does you dickheads, or use your settings page for more than 3 things and stop hiding everything else in your fucking .YAML (also Stop using .YAML)
I also wish Linux used a standardized config file format.
This makes sense, within reason. Limiting the visibility of low level system settings and statistics is good for the normal user’s experience. That is not just to keep them from breaking their system, but it also makes the commonly used settings easier to navigate and use.
I don’t say this in a gatekeeping way either. I am a developer and old computer nerd who has a terminal open pretty much all the time. But I also run Mint and I use the GUI for all kinds of stuff. If I may stretch to make a metaphor, the primary user-friendly UI from the driver’s seat of my car doesn’t have indicators or controls for all kinds of things I care about, but they are things I don’t need to do every day in the middle of a drive. I can do something out of the ordinary to get to them when the need arises.
The nice thing about Linux is that in the GUI these things are merely hidden. They aren’t locked down and denied access entirely like you might get with a commercial OS.
The worthwhile discussion/argument IMO is just where best to draw that line. I personally don’t have strong opinions on the computer side because I am comfortable with CLI and text files. My gut feel is that more GUI is good, but my suspicion is that actual “normie” users want simple. To them the OS is just the screen that holds the icons for their apps, like a smart phone. It is not a gargantuan tree of settings they can peruse like I might.
Funny though, I DO have a strong opinion in the case of my car metaphor. I currently drive an old economy car, and it doesn’t have a coolant temperature gauge. There’s just a warning light for when the coolant is already too hot or is still cold and warming up. The lack of the gauge doesn’t affect the performance of the car and it has not ruined my day in over a decade of ownership, but I’m a bit of a car guy and an engineer to boot, so I want more information like you might see in a truck or sports car.
That’s another nice thing about the open nature of Linux. There isn’t one official setup that everybody gets out of the box, which can be confusing, but it can certainly be made to fit many different people’s needs.
Sure.... Want to fix the stupid new menus in windows 11? Oh it is just a new guid key in the registry in a location you wouldn't expect. You know just cut and paste shit into the registry you found on the internet. Windows is just as annoying, if not more so.
In any case: what system GUI's do you want? GUIS make everything so much harder, careful what you wish for.
12 years ago maybe, plasma made a lot of improvements since then
Can I edit systemd services and bootloader settings somewhere?
There really aren't any simple settings for grub that need a GUI and honestly the systemd service CLI for enabling starting and disabling is pretty damn easy
Systemdgenie is good enough for me, but that's just me.
YaST on OpenSUSE is pretty nice.
I always viewed YaST as SMIT(ty) for linux. Haven't looked at suse in forever, though.
Since suggestions in the comments are just words of apologists, do you have a proposal for a solution, or is this just a rant post?
All I’m getting right now is a vague idea of some Master GUI that resembles the cockpit of a commercial jet that no “average user” is ever going to try and decipher, anyway.
do you have a proposal for a solution, or is this just a rant post?
I think this post captures a commonly felt problem whether or not it is still a fair criticism.
Set settings once in a config file and check it in, then never fight it again.
GUI is bloat for basically everything. If you want to rice go ahead, but if you do in a UI... lol cool story bro.
Edit. Oh no! I've been clocked by the Ubuntu crew!
I think there should be a standard for config files, where it defines all of the options and possible values, so that an app can be made to modify them.
Any modern Linux distro viable for the average user uses systemd, and there ain't many different bootloaders being used by big distros either (almost always either Grub or systemd-boot, rarely Efistub). Likewise it's clear for years that Wayland is the future (not to mention this problem persists for over 2 decades now).
I don't see a problem with lack of standardized config files, rather a lack of interest by the rather tech-conservative part of the Linux community (who by now often have a lot to say in development circles).
It's why I'm so furious about Linux in general and how every god damn intent to change almost any setting begins with "open Terminal...". I don't want to use the damn Terminal. It's 2025 now, put the god damn basic ass settings into control panel so I can click it without first spending half an hour to find a long noodle of commands for Terminal that I don't even understand, paste it in and hope for the best.
Like, I had issues with Bluetooth module in my laptop and I wanted it disabled so my BT USB dongle is main. In Windows I'd just go to Device manager and disable that device. Done. On Linux I spent hours diging on how to disable BT module and weed out all the bullshit on how to disable the function itself because I need it, just not from the fauly module. Then I spent asking on Reddit where someone finally posted a working Terminal command that I had to save into config file using Terminal because file manager is to stupid to save it into system area by just asking me if I want it there or not. I now have a folder with config file and instructions on what stupid ass copy command for Terminal I need to use to copy the config file where it needs to be.
Just so much unnecessary bullshit for something that could be done in literal 5 clicks at worst if the damn option was in GUI to disable single device on the system. Also fun fact, Linux has a "wireless devices" tool, command line one and it uses device ID to apply it and the fucking ID changes every time for the device so you can't make a permanent setting. I kid you not. I've never seen anything more idiotic.
I don't want to use the damn Terminal.
Unfortunately the people who code prefer not to use guis if they can help it.
I don't mind using the terminal, but how the fuck am I going to remember something like
kwriteconfig6 --file startkderc --group General --key systemdBoot false? (In fact, there aren't even man pages for that command). Like the scribbles of a mad man I've had to put down commands like that in a sort of personal instructions manual, because ain't no way I'll remember these commands by heart.
And you often end up just saving the most used commands as aliases or functions in the .bashrc meaning you don't retain the syntax for the commands you use. Well, maybe I'm a unique case of fish memory.. The thing about humans is that we greatly rely on our vision, and having GUI's to show what's possible greatly improve ones understanding of how to manage it going forward.This is why GUI exists. So you don't need to memorize idiotic and long commands.
KDE has an enormous system settings GUI.
Having said that, I use the console for like 90% of tasks. Basically I use either the GUI browser, an editor (I'm a dev) and the console through yakuake.
I use the console because it's way WAY more efficient to get shit done. What teo windows admin do in 30 minutes I do in 30 seconds, and that was an actual event where we had to change DNS configurations inna large amount of customer servers.
Command console is not old tech, it's efficient tech.
Having said that, most normal users shouldn't have or need to access the console either and for most of the time, this rings true with Linux now. Yeah, there are few exceptions here and there, but then again, windows too requires these senslrss Registry settings, or sometimes even command line actions as well
This is just not true. The average Windows user never has to open the registry, only devs and tinkerers have to. Neither a shell.
For Windows admins do in 30 minutes and you in 30 seconds takes a normal user either 30 minutes ib Linux or, way too often, 30 hours because the random command in the internet didn't work, did work but had unforeseen consequences (way worse and way too often) or outright broke their system.
Even KDE lacks settings, and even if they ARE there the community is so god damn "terminalistic" that you'll barely find the correct answer for the GUI, just a bunch of CLI commands that will age like milk and cause future people who look for help to accidentally break something.
NOBODY should be forced to enter a superuser command they can't understand to achieve a goal they very well do. The community is still fighting against the users' ability to open a file browser or text editor as superuser WITHOUT going through the command line. It sucks, and normal users constantly get alienated by the lack of these fundamental things on a system that pretends to give them full control.
Full control it does give; after 2 years of painfully learning the command line and its bells and whistles. And this sucks.
What teo windows admin do in 30 minutes I do in 30 seconds
You know that pretty much everything in Windows can be done with powershell, right? Just a few and very specific things need to be done using older command line tools, or extremely rarely using a GUI.
It's trivial to write a script that changes the DNS configuration on every server for example. It's even easy to parallelize it.
You pretty much only need something like this.
$Servers = "server01", "server02", "server03"
$Servers | ForEach-Object { Invoke-Command -Computername $_ -Scriptblock { Set-DnsClientServerAddress -InterfaceIndex 12 -ServerAddresses ("10.0.0.1","10.0.0.2") }}
I can't guarantee that it will run, since I wrote it on my phone (hence formatting), but it wouldn't be far off. You could also do it without pipes using something like 'foreach $server in $servers' but that's harder to type on a phone and I prefer pipes.
How ungrateful! Do it yourself? It only takes learning how to program. Thats like... a 45 minutes search. 80 if you want to learn how to program an OS from scratch.
I have a similar rant with Docker.
On macOS there's a Docker app. You can use it to install stuff, see what it's up to, restart it and whatnot. On Linux you have to remember what commands you have to use in Terminal.
Why?!
There are loads of us out here who would appreciate a more user friendly way to use FOSS, but we're made to feel like fuckin noobs because we don't want to spend ages typing in commands when we could just press a couple of fucking buttons.
Anyway, apart from that I've been enjoying my adventures in Linux.
You're probably talking about Docker Desktop. It may not be on Linux (or at least your distro or whatever) because it's not actually FLOSS. If you want to use Docker with a GUI I've had success with Rancher Desktop which is made by SUSE and is FLOSS. It's still Docker (unlike podman which is not technically Docker), but it has a GUI for some stuff too.
I tried installing Docker Desktop at work and realized the license doesn't actually allow that without paying. It was weirdly difficult to install Docker by itself on Mac so that led me to finding Rancher Desktop.
NixOS has the potential to do really well here. The Nix language has a rich enough type system to generate GUI forms for every field, and there are several projects being worked on that allow editing NixOS options from a GUI. They're still very janky, but it's definitely possible to get to a point where a layperson could operate them without breaking their system.
Nix is definitely where I'd bet on good GUI development, if I had to choose. I've had my own issues with NixOS in the past, primarily due to me simply not being able to fully grasp some of the language for configs, but I'd definitely assume that GUI editing would be much easier due to the more predictable nature of the config files.
What's the deal with NixOS? I've never tried it
*openSUSE enters the chatroom
SUSE/openSUSE are the only ones that have it figured out. It requires a lot of polish, but it's the only distro that seems to really care about a deeper system configuration through GUI, and that's really appreciated.
You should have done the 2nd half in ascii art because terminal ;)
2nd half in raw binary because I use Arch btw.
2nd half in uncompiled source code because gentoo
Desktop Environments are decoupled from the underlying system. It makes switching DEs very easy but integration sucks.
I needed to flush dns on my Ubuntu machine. I googled it found a command for an older version. But of course the underlying stuff changed since then and that command doesn't exist anymore.
The command to flush dns on Windows has been the same for decades. On Linux half the stuff I learn is going to be obsolete in a couple of years and that knowledge can't be carried over to other Distros because they do it differently.
I also had to manually build and install a driver for a very common realtek wifi chipset that is not even new.
This is the reason I sometimes come back to the BSDs, they just feel more coherent as a whole.
This could be paraphrased as "GUI for the GUI settings, non-GUI for the non-GUI settings." It's not surprising to me that parts of Linux that run on systems that don't have GUIs do not have GUI settings. I understand the frustration, but building those is more work, and more things that can break, go out of date, etc..
What if Linux presented its config files in an app like regedit? Would that be easier? I doubt it. But with complicated data structures, making a first-class app just to edit a specific text file or set of files on disk is a very low ROI for engineering hours.
Then at least give users the ability to edit said text files with a text editor… but the community fights that as well. 🙄 The only distro I ever saw that enabled users to open a file browser and, through that, a text editor as root to edit system files was Mint. KDE had it for a short while before they patched it out again as far as I know (last time I checked Dolphin outright refused to start with root privileges).
It's not like there weren't ways to make it easier with little investment. Some elitists just managed to suppress even those efforts for decades.
Kde allows you to edit files with elevated permissions; use Kate for that. Open any system file in Kate and it will ask you for your password when you'll try to save it.
What people expect:
✅Fix my box
❎Fuck my shit up
What we would get: System Kernel Interface
🔳 Regex Recursion
🔳 Kernel Language (Internal) [Dropdown: en-us, Dvorak, binary, Klingon, non-binary (Borg analog), Esperanto]
🔳 Ignore LPT on fire
🔳 Memory hole on sysctl
🔳 Mansplain man(8)
I expect a Red x
dotfile bros:
-what GUI?
Chezmoi my beloved
Windows users are used to everything being so locked down that it's virtually impossible to mess up your system... lots of this stuff is in config files because exposing it for everyday users would be asking for people to completely brick their workflow.
If you put every option in a GUI, there would be so much stuff that nobody could find anything.
That's why you put it in 3, with no rhyme or reason for which goes wear
Now we got it only in config files where we can't find anything. Also don't you put a single wrong character in there, it could break everything.
Well-made GUIs can even prevent disaster by exposing settings in a diggestable way and making sure entries are properly edited. Good UI/UX conveys functionality through form and can be navigated intuitively.
To make settings inaccessible on purpose or even alienate people deemed "too stupid" for them is called Tech Paternalism, and it fucking sucks.
The Linux equivilent of this is atomic/immutable distros (SteamOS and Android being the most popular examples, but Fedora also has one that's fairly popular).
Plasma 6 settings GUI more capable than windows settings idk wym. Only thing I've had to edit in the terminal in the last several months has been automount on a hard drive.
Only thing I’ve had to edit in the terminal in the last several months has been automount on a hard drive.
I just use gnome disks for that. Tbh, that's the only thing I use gnome disks for.
Do they support stuff like managing the bootloader or systemd services by now? So far the only thing I ever saw going that deep was OpenSuse's YaST Settings Suite.
Idk man i just keep my system up to date and call it good for the most part. I COULD dive into low level system stuff but I've rarely has a reason to. I do my tinkering in Godot, or off the computer.
Point stands, better interface and more functionality than Windows' hot mess.
Should note that yes, system stuff like display, fonts, all kinds of other stuff. But super users will always default to command line and there's always a little issue here and there after certain updates to tinker with.
They aren't supposed to have every setting tho. It's mainly focused for average user, power users can figure it out and most prefer CLI anyway. Having too many settings can be intimidating for new users.
Nowdays Windows horse has the same head but it basically never even had a butt at all (or third party butts at some point).
And a bunch of ads where its balls would be.
The ballsack is prime ad real estate!!
Everyone looks at it & wants to press it - balls don't lie, the ads must be trustworthy!
Im usually fine with it but at times whenever I want to enable some obscure setting that isn't in the normal control panel, there's at least 3 different gui that kind of accomplish the same task but later on has different side effects depending whether you edited via registry or local group policy
reminds me of the one time I tried to configure a proxy on fedora KDE and then realizing most apps don't even use the inbuilt proxy settings and there are three separate ways to configure it that are only accessable via the terminal and it is pain
MY CREATOR USED LINUX TO DEVELOPE ME I FEEL COLD WHEN I EXTRACT MY DATA
No one should feel cold. Lets add some autoplay taboola ads to all of your screens so it wont feel so cold anymore. You're welcome.
Yeah, some distros have GUIs for system settings, like openSUSE and Mageia, but advanced users will often even take that as a reason to not use those distros, because they themselves don't need that on their system. And because not many advanced users use these distros, it's hard to recommend them for noobs, because it makes it more difficult to find help resources. Kind of a stupid situation...
"I open bottlecaps with my mouth, so i don't go to house where they have bottle openers."
*Laughs in CLI.
Also TOML lol
Yeah, I've definitely grown to like TOML, especially after spending hours trying to edit a giant (nested) YAML file...
I didn't realize the indentation in TOML was purely aesthetic.
This
[servers] [servers.alpha] ip = "10.0.0.1" dc = "eqdc10" [servers.beta] ip = "10.0.0.2" dc = "eqdc10"equals this
[servers] [servers.alpha] ip = "10.0.0.1" dc = "eqdc10" [servers.beta] ip = "10.0.0.2" dc = "eqdc10"which equals this
{ "servers": { "alpha": { "ip": "10.0.0.1", "dc": "eqdc10" }, "beta": { "ip": "10.0.0.2", "dc": "eqdc10" } } }
You get a gui?
dwm gang rise up!
I'd just like one standard for all config files. Yaml, json, whatever...let's just choose something and standardize.
I used to dislike editing text config files but once you have one written you've got a template for the future. So long as the documentation is throughly written it's not too bad to follow.
Nix intensifies
Linux config in YAML
God no, please spare me
Here's one:
Audio jacks. I have a 5.1 system, and to use it properly I have to install HDAJackRetask. You can't just specify 5.1 surround sound from the distro's standard audio settings menu.
Pavuctl still is kind of mandatory to have with most DEs (you should be able to set the proper audio profile in it for 5.1?). Amusingly even on Pipewire systems.
Especially weird to see on Gnome. Audio Settings are rather meh, you still can't even set how the background is displayed since Gnome 3 either (centered, stretched, fit etc. - unless you know about the "optimizations" app) …but look at our new "Wellbeing" feature! 🦶
Another is fstab. You'll often be told to go edit that by hand, often in the terminal. Adding a drive to an existing system and mounting it as part of the file system is a task an ordinary computer user would want to do.
I'm thinking about a gamer switching to Linux, and then saying something like "I wanna hook up my 5.1 speakers" or "I'm gonna buy a new SSD and add it to my existing system so I have room for more games."
I'm not a proponent of making EVERYTHING a GUI setting because not even Microsoft does that but there are still some splintery edges in places people will actually touch that could use some sanding.
You ever try to put together a GUI? I absolutely get why they look like crap! Although I have been having fun playing around with egui.
I'm actually fine with Linux being for people who are into knowing how their computers work and Windows/MacOS for people who aren't.
I just wish there was an option for normal people to escape "we've added more bloatware and spyware in this mandatory update" without having a CS degree.
There is a lot of accessible distros, but the issue is that people have been using an OS for so long that it is hard to switch and relearn a new workflow.
Asking for everything to be done for you is just asking for another bloatware/spyware OS (see how Ubuntu is slowly going that way for example).
Unless you have a tool that you can't live without, bite the bullet and make the jump. It will suck for a 2-3 weeks, but it is worth it.
Walkthru of using Chris Titus debloating script
Please tell this to my systems administrator at my job. At home it’s all Linux at work trying to use Windows is mind numbing.
I'd give my left nut to have a GUI for managing the icons in the GNOME dock. Like, where is the binary for this icon? Can I edit this .desktop file from the right click menu, please? FML.
I think you can with Pins, no right-click menu, but you can find them easily from within the app
Thank you, that's 90% of the way there. 😁
The janky cobbled-together UIs straight out of 1994 are part of the charm!
Not entirely accurate since the majority of Linux system settings are in fact GUI settings, you forget the Linux under the hood is all pure text based meaning it's just GUI settings and worse GUI settings.
Wait, do you argue that a terminal emulator is just another GUI but with a huge text box? 😅
If we want to be technical even the terminal itself is a GUI just not a very interactive one, technically anything(most things) outside of the grub loader, bios and drives are part of the gui, I will concede that that is not a very useful definition but when dealing with edge cases like terminal emulators you would have to say it is indeed part of the gui at least technically.
All the settings changes should be config files. GUI is dumb Pooh.
If you don't know what you're doing, you have no reason to edit those settings.
Wanting a good GUI doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing.
Conversely, if it was presented in a more user friendly way, perhaps more people would know what they were doing.
sysctl, anyone?
