The State of Lemmy (drama)
The State of Lemmy (drama)
Hello all, it is with a heavy heart that I must admit that I have become the drama that I always sought to avoid for this server. In this case, I could easily let sleeping dogs lie, but I'm somewhat exhausted and I don't really see the point of continuing here if there isn't some semblance of justice or rational thought to be found. More to the point, if Lemmy continues to display outright hostility and toxicity towards Americans at every turn, there is virtually no chance that this platform will ever develop beyond its current fringe status.
Although this server is based in Canada, I think we probably have a good number of Americans, and also despite recent events I think Canadians and Americans are fairly similar and have historically gotten along quite well with one another. I'm curious if a more diverse array of people will find any value in my actions, or if I'm truly just shouting into the wind. Strap in, because this is gonna be a long one.
This all started yesterday when @[email protected] made a post to AskLemmy. The original post read as follows.
I responded here. I had indeed noticed the constant derisive comments regarding Americans, although I didn't agree with the assumption that such comments were made by Russian/Chinese agents, and stated as much.
In my view, the responses to both OP and myself in that thread constitute clear evidence that at least one of our assumptions was true. In response to being called out on their hateful behavior, a number of users proceeded to double down, attempting to gaslight myself and OP and even suggesting that we were actually the Russian spies 🕵️♂️
Several hours later, one of our users decided to make a post "exposing" my behavior on [email protected]. Despite the fact that I hadn't utilized any moderator powers during this saga, he found my words to be offensive enough to post on said community. The post was eventually removed because it was unsuitable for the community, but not before I had replied in defense of myself. This was unfortunate, although understandable, because I felt that my response was something that Lemmy users could benefit from hearing.
I made this post because I want my fellow sh.itjust.works users to judge whether my actions and thoughts were reasonable, and I also want to expose this individual for what they are. My first option was [email protected], but it's not allowed to post drama that you're involved in. Also, I'm not really looking for the opinions of people who subscribe to drama communities on Lemmy, but rather the opinions of the average sh.itjust.works user. So here's the screenshot of the removed post.
Here's my reply.
It'll probably be easier reading if you go to my profile and/or his profile. Although the post was deleted, the comments should still appear in our profiles.
To summarize, this user bullied a brand new user into deleting their account, responding to an innocent, highly upvoted meme with this comment
He let’s me freely hang out at his nice place full of amenities so I can’t badmouth him
Lmfao, no, you can, you just like the taste of boot, and the benefits he gives you (that he only has because he exploits people like you) too much to.
Also, those last two points in the meme, as well as this being your only post on a new account strongly suggest that this is a troll, or at the very least, a really sad LARP, rather than observations made by someone who has ever spent any time at all with any actual rich people.
Two days later, he decided to call me out for mod abuse, despite the fact that I hadn't removed a single comment of his. Now he's decided to move over to lemmy.dbzer0.com, thank goodness.
But overall, aside from the specifics of this drama, I also want y'all to render judgment on whether or not Lemmy tends to exhibit a toxic attitude towards Americans. Notice that I said Americans, not America. I don't give a shit if people criticize and blatantly shit on America for the decisions that our government makes. But it's far too often that Lemmy users go beyond that line and decide to hurl personal insults towards Americans, often in completely non-political communities. I've always had thick skin and an open mind, so if I'm getting annoyed by it, my assumption is that most other Americans will find it intolerable. And although we don't need to be a majority American site by any means, the sheer numbers dictate that if Americans find this site intolerable, it will never achieve mainstream success.
And if I hear one more fucking person say that America only joined World War 2 after it was already over, or that we were cowards for not joining sooner, I swear to God I'ma start criticizing the metric system again 😂
EDIT:
Thanks for the replies, I'll try to be less of an arrogant prick going forward and in return I'd like people to reflect on my words from time to time. My primary motivation is making Lemmy better and having more diverse viewpoints, I wouldn't have called anyone out if I didn't feel that some of you are creating an environment that is self-destructive towards our goals in that regard. But maybe I'm overreacting, I would just ask you to put yourself in other people's shoes before making comments, and remember that we're all on the same team here, even the North American Scum
While you are probably correct that criticism of the USA (and of its citizens) pops up too often in unrelated topics, I think that you are basically just discovering what it is to not be the ultra dominant demographics on a platform. It doesn't mean it's right or anything, everyone should strive to make Lemmy a welcoming place, but it's certainly going to take work on both sides. That said, I would like you to re-read some of what you wrote:
and their obvious jealousy and insecurity regarding Americans
For one thing, my command of the English language rules that out, which isn't something I can say about many of you.
America controls the world, and Europeans are salty about it. I didn’t even realize how salty until I started using Lemmy
I swear to God I'ma start criticizing the metric system again
The amount of condescension dripping from your comments is frankly off the chart, and you should maybe take a minute to ponder whether you are actually behaving as you preach, rather than just being in your own American circlejerk, as you might have called it had the shoe been on the other foot.
In any way, being an admin/mod is a thankless task, so I for one appreciate you for doing that, and maybe everyone can learn a bit from sharing a community.
You might be on to something with the demographic make-up of the platform. There are a lot of users from countries outside the US and for Americans used to seeing the opinions, primarily, of other Americans being the norm, it can seem like an attack on the country and their colossal fuck-ups recently are an attack on Americans, themselves.
It seems similar to the backlash felt by a lot of minorities when given rights closer to, or equal of, whites in this country. I don't have a pony in this race, but it seems this is just human nature. We just don't like competition and American exceptionalism is ingrained in almost every school book we are presented with.
That being said, I think you could point to some people being assholes to others. Just as I don't blame all citizens of Jerusalem for the genocide in Gaza, nor all Russians for the invasion of Ukraine, nor all Americans for tRump, I think some people equate the citizen with the government like some sort of sports rivalry or deeply ingrained tribalism.
This is, however, just the opinion of an American who took off their rose-colored, exceptionalism glasses a long time ago.
"When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression."
There's for sure some of that conflation happening, but I don't think it can be ascribed to any particular group, it's just a bad habit/process a lot of people use regardless of where they're from. I don't have a solution for that, and I doubt it's something you can correct on an online social media platform.
Assholes will be assholes, we don't need to put them in an American or euro or whatever else case to recognize them as such and deal with them.
Good comment.
Reminds of when LW realized their instance is not hosted in the USA but managed by a Dutch team using a German provider on Finnish servers.
As always, [email protected] for US specific conversations.
That's fair, but somehow I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans. It seems like such behavior would inevitably be downvoted, as it should be.
But when it comes to Americans, it's open season for people to take pot shots, and it always gets upvoted regardless of its accuracy.
I was being condescending at times, because people were throwing around insane accusations of me being a russian plant and refusing to acknowledge any validity to the complaints being voiced. Why shouldn't I condescend those who spread senseless vitriol for no apparent reason? They deserve to be criticized and mocked, because that's exactly what they're doing to other people. The dude I was talking to literally bullied one of my users into deleting their account, then tried to put me on blast for no reason. I have more than enough justification to treat people such as those with disdain.
You all seem to implicitly think I'm somehow proud or bragging about America being the largest economic and military force in the world. That's not even remotely the case, I think it's entirely fucked. But that's the world we live in. I'm just trying to explain what I've experienced and observed here, and understand what is causing that behavior.
But when it comes to Americans, it's open season for people to take pot shots, and it always gets upvoted regardless of its accuracy.
It was once possible to see the rise of fascism in the United States as something that was being amplified by media, amplified by foreign influence, amplified by propaganda, amplified by whoever made the most noise on Facebook.
Then the election happened, and Trump won. The reality that Americans as a whole are much shittier than previously imagined became undeniable, and that has really upset a lot of people's worldview (myself included).
Trump's federal cases got dismissed, and now his sentence for 34 felonies in New York State is "go on your merry way." Fascism isn't looming in the distance somewhere anymore; it's literally eight days away as of this writing.
So yeah, it's open season for people to take pot shots, especially when the US has been promoting itself on the world stage for decades as the height of moral superiority. And it's very easy for people to conflate "Americans" with "an American". If a specific person in a specific context is making that kind of conflatory (yeah, that's a word) mistake continually, I may point it out, but I generally understand and I'm willing to give it a pass for the moment.
That's fair, but somehow I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans.
You might just not hang out in the right places to see it, but anywhere there's a European political community, you will see plenty of shit talk and hate and blame being thrown around, especially towards the bigger euro countries like Germany, France and the UK (though not limited to).
I'm not saying there isn't a good explanation as to why you might have been condescending, or that you are a dumb proud maga American, or anything of the sort, but keep in mind that we can't guess what you might be thinking, all we have to go on is what you write and some of it that I highlighted does make you look a certain way.
I think this comment you replied to summarizes things well.
I'll reiterate here that pot shots towards Americans would generally be "punching up" in some contexts, which usually isn't as frowned upon as punching down.
Also consider that it could be, uh...self-punching? It could be Americans poking fun at themselves, being unhappy with the current state of the country (and who is set to become president -- Elon Musk as vizier, with Trump returning for the pictures).
For me, as an American, it’s easier for me to criticize America. I'm familiar with it and I can bring receipts. I will criticize certain actions of other countries but it feels wrong to start generalizing as I have neither the knowledge or experience of their day-to-day, culture, politics, etc.
I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans.
French bashing from 9 days ago: https://feddit.org/post/6408713/3945015
Just remember this one, I can find out countless other examples when I have more time
The dude I was talking to literally bullied one of my users into deleting their account, then tried to put me on blast for no reason.
If there was such heavy bullying, how come that this user didn't get banned from SJW?
They deserve to be criticized and mocked, because that’s exactly what they’re doing to other people.
Just to make sure: because one of your users bullied another one, you made a derogatory statement towards a whole content?
That’s fair, but somehow I never seem to see hatred directed towards any other nationality on Lemmy, aside from Americans
Because you only speak English, not German, Dutch, Italian or French (or at least, aren't actively posting in those communities with this account). And, rather ironically, that's a very common thing to see in Americans.
I've never seen a German post about how few people are commenting on (negative) events in Sweden, because they realize that most people commenting on Swedish events are Swedes are posting in Swedish, in Swedish forums, and not Germans posting in German in German forums, except when it occasionally makes the German newpapers.
I've read plenty cricism of the US, China, Russia, Mexico and some of canada, Ukraine, France, Spain, Germany, Denmark, Norway, India, Australia, Taiwan, Japan, Brazil, Venezuela. Those I can think on top of my head.
If you don't see any hatred against anything besides the US, without trying to be too disrespectful, open your eyes.
I have to say, the first paragraph of your reply does not give the impression that you want to argue in good faith…
I agree wholeheartedly. My assumption was that such behavior was simply a symptom of the relatively larger proportion of Europeans on this site, and their obvious jealousy and insecurity regarding Americans. I still believe that is the most likely explanation.
That sounds like you think all Europeans are jealous of Americans, and that they have good reason to. It comes off as troll-ish at the very least.
I wasn't arguing, I was agreeing with the OP and suggesting that rather than Russian/Chinese agents, there was a more likely source of the hatred.
I don't think all Europeans are anything, they are a very diverse group. I'm just trying to understand why people act the way they do on Lemmy, based on what I've observed over the past year or so. When you see aggresively angry takes being highly upvoted in random threads for seemingly no reason, you search for a psychological rationale, and that was my conclusion. As I said, I would be salty about America too, if I wasn't born here. We're fucking up big time, and the rest of the world is along for the ride. But berating people on Lemmy isn't likely to change anything for the better.
I know that I could have come off more diplomatically, but it's a bit rich to accuse me of trolling for reacting strongly to a slew of personal insults and attacks that never seems to end. You're lucky that I even bother to respond, unlike the thousands of Americans who silently perceived that they weren't welcome on this site and slunk back to reddit.
I'm trying to help you understand how you're making people feel, regardless of whether your behavior is caused by jealousy or some other emotion. The constant picking apart of my words without addressing the meat of my argument is exhausting, and everyone has a breaking point where they just don't wanna deal with it anymore.
Would you care to speculate how your psychoanalysis of Internet commenters leading you to describe them with what would generally be regarded as personal insults--jealous, insecure, immature, assholes, smug bastards, emotional--makes people feel? In this discussion about how you desire for people to be nicer to each other, it's worth considering.
To be clear, toxic people are majorly unpleasant and you're right to call people out for throwing around personal insults in a place where we hopefully all want to come to have to or see civil interactions and maybe sometimes have a bit of fun.
So, you want the opinion of an average sh.itjustworks user? Well, here it comes.
First and foremost, I think you should let it go and calm down. I know from personal experience, arguing with strangers on the internet can be exhausting and it can rile you up. It's not worth it.
And I've noticed an increase in inciteful troll posts on Lemmy in the past few days. The goal of those is to destroy the community by sowing division and hatred and these posts seem to come from both sides of the political spectrum. It doesn't really matter what political flavor the content seems to be because the purpose is simply to break things. Those are troll posts and the content is designed to provoke anger and hatred. We should be careful not to fall into this trap, as an international community.
Thank you, that's a balanced take and I appreciate the advice.
I find people who's personality is "anti-X" or "fuck-Y" are usually not enjoyable to be around.
There's plenty of those on Lemmy, yes. But thankfully just a loud minority. Banning them (as a user), made Lemmy much more enjoyable.
Honestly, people who are unequivocally pro-X or "why are you always critizing Y" are much worse overall, especially when X and Y are governments, companies or otherwise groups that the person isn't even really a part of.
Then better ban all of Europe. Right now America is giving us even more reason to be anti-American.
Create your own little echo chamber where you can convince yourself America doesn't deserve every bit of anti-American hate it's getting.
Then better ban all of Europe. Right now America is giving us even more reason to be anti-American.
Aren't there several European countries with the problem of far-right parties gaining power in their governments? Germany literally just stripped firearm rights from their version of these groups earlier this week
That's a shame, OP, you always seem like a pretty collected and calm voice, it's disappointing to hear you're a dang dirty fed/commie/fascist/Russian/Chinese/Soros/Thiel agent.
I'm an American. I'm not one of the "good" Americans, though, since I'm disabled, not Christian, not capitalist, and not white. I've spent my whole life getting shit on as a third-class citizen by Americans steeped in American culture and public school education that has, at every turn, preached American exceptionalism and pulling oneself up by their bootstraps while totally ignoring every benefit offered to them and withheld from people like me.
I think that you've been lucky so far, but now that you're being asked to sit the fuck down and listen while other people talk, you're taking it badly. After a lifetime of privilege, it's really easy to mistake being brought into line with everybody else's equality for oppression; please don't do that. It's a bad look and sets you up to feel bad unnecessarily.
There are like 8 billion people on this planet and you're one of about 330 million Americans. It's pretty reasonable that your perspective isn't the majority opinion, and that other people from other countries may also think their home is the best possible place to live and everyone else is an unlucky chump. Instead of dismissing all the critical comments as the kvetching of the jealous, unwashed masses outside your borders, it may help to look at them as nothing more than other people sharing their own viewpoints. Also, reading about events like Juneteenth, the MOVE bombing, the Kent State massacre, the Jackson State killings, and the Tulsa massacre may help you better understand why people from other places side eye Americans.
And seriously, the metric system is based on the physical properties of Earth and base 10 counting, not dead oppressors.
the metric system is based on the physical properties of Earth
Not really. Official units are defined in that kind of way (a metre used to be a certain fraction of the circumference of the Earth, though it's now a certain amount of time travelled at light speed), but the definitions are arbitrary and used to justify defining the base unit how we want it. Metric's superiority has nothing to do with metres being better than yards or kilogrammes being better than pounds. It's this part:
and base 10 counting
As well as the fact that derived units all fit together nicely.
Woosh
I just see memes, no drama. Guess it depends on what you watch.
America is fun to make fun of, having hardly any vacations even, and thinking public Healthcare is communism. :) But I prefer them very much to Russia or China, that's for damn sure. They may love their money but they are usually not kidnapping and killing their own people.
If they want to work all their life for their money, ok. :) I dream of getting out of the hamster wheel, personally.
I don't really care about this kind of drama here. I think people are allowed to have opinions. Attacks on people based on -isms are not cool, but let's be real... aren't jokes that target Americans punching up in some of the contexts you're referring to? And that's usually fair game.
As for jealousy towards Americans, I truly don't believe that's the case.
If there were underlying jealousy, it'd be more towards the country being relatively safe during WW2, having not been bombed or invaded the way Europe was, and having that massive advantage as it grew as a nation.
The success of the USA is generally because of its geographical location and the unfortunate economic conditions that hit Europe due to WW2. I don't think it's really because of anything special about American people or American culture.
I think people can be upset with Americans the way that people can be upset with trust fund kids who tell less fortunate people to pick themselves up by the bootstraps.
With that said... can't you make comments without revealing yourself as an admin? I feel like that's just going to trigger some people, lol
With that said… can’t you make comments without revealing yourself as an admin? I feel like that’s just going to trigger some people, lol
I dunno, there's an option to "speak as moderator" but I literally never turn it on. But I figured if people click on my profile they can probably see.
It adds that little shield thing but as I said, I never use it.
I think jealousy was the wrong word to use, but saltiness feels more appropriate. It's precisely because of the fact that America is only in its current position due to a series of recent historical events that makes it more frustrating for non-Americans. They seem to feel that we are undeserving of our wealth and power, and that they would do a better job if they were running this country.
I get the trust fund analogy, but what about the trust fund kid who donates a lot of money to charity and gets a medical degree and serves underprivileged communities in developing countries? It seems to me that many lemmings would still shit on that person just because of their birth, regardless of the fact that they're trying to do the right thing.
That's what I find frustrating, because it's so counterproductive. If you still get shit on just for being American even when you're actively trying to escape the corporate machine that controls every aspect of our lives and to connect with alternative viewpoints via Lemmy, you start to wonder why you should even bother.
All of your comments show up to me as having a red username, where everyone else is blue. I'm in Voyager. Either your role is permanently showing in my app, or you've got something messed up with the settings. Maybe the shield means "Hide your mod status" and you've got it backwards?
As for the benevolent trust fund kid...you're only focusing on the good. Others are only focusing on the bad. Both are wrong. And I don't think getting into the exact ratio would be productive, lol
I do empathize with the challenges of trying to feel like part of a community while being "othered" like that. I think the best thing you could do is to not have your username be glowing red for everyone.
Whenever a mod comes in commenting with their mod colour turned on, it makes it look like the mod is implying "Whatever I'm saying here is more important than anyone else's comment because I'm a mod". Whether you intend it or not, that's how it can come across. And to anyone who has issues with authority (which will be a LOT of people here, lol), that's just putting a target on your back.
You can't change the comments that people post, but you can influence the kinds of replies you get.
The success of the USA is generally because of its geographical location and the unfortunate economic conditions that hit Europe due to WW2.
Do not forget slavery. This is huge to the success of the US.
Not from sh.itjust.works
But I think that user (@[email protected]) just saw a bunch of posts from lemmygrad or hexbear and concluded that "Lemmy is Anti-American", which is not true at all. Lemmy users criticize the US, but (other than the aforementioned tankies) aren't hating on Americans. (At least, that's my experience.)
My advice is that we don’t always have to engage with with every opinion on the internet.
I especially consider this advice when an .ml or other far-left instance user posts tankie propaganda, rather than engage with it or make a meta post about it, just ignore it. Block the user and move on.
There are many many inherently negative and unhappy people online, not just here. These kind of people aren’t going to be swayed by random comments, they will just trap you in their negativity.
Everyone should empower themselves and use their individual moderation tools like block or mute, they may find they have a better experience. Not that we should block any one who disagrees with us, but there’s no reason to be brought down by someone who finds it their life mission to harass or bring down an entire group of people.
Drama is inevitable when you connect enough people.
As an American, that has endless criticism for the countless wrongs in America, I haven't noticed much issue. I suppose if I was a patriot or maga fan, maybe I'd be more uncomfortable here.
I had seen a wave of divisive Russian posters in Reddit 6-7 years ago, usually with trump memes. I haven't noticed that here, probably because trolls get fed better elsewhere.
Thanks for what you do, often no good deeds happen without criticism.
I'm somewhat on the outside of this, am aware of a bit but not following super close.
But the moment I read
Hello all, it is with a heavy heart that I must admit that I have become the drama that I always sought to avoid for this server.
-- Yeah, you're fine.
Simply being in a position of authority, even if you are not using that authority, will make you a target for rabble-rousers. On internet forums, the Venn diagram between "people who need to be moderated" and "people who will raise hell about mod actions" has a huge amount of overlap. There's kind of no avoiding catching hell as a forum mod.
My impression is that Lemmy has a sizable demographic of people whose communities have been banned from Reddit. I'm thinking hexbear especially, but a lot of .ml and others too. Several violently pro communism anti west groups. (I have a theory that they've been defusing to other instances too, but idk.) I think that's part of the reason why you get so much America bad rhetoric.
Well you did elect a felon who attempted coup and is now promising invasions of sovereign nations.
Americans do deserve a bit of shit for that.
This along with the upcoming damage to Canadian trade is why you're seeing a lot more Canadians talking shit. Of course we're pissed: Trump opening his dumb shit-eating mouth caused our dollar to lose 10-15 cents on the US dollar.
Also it's pretty funny that some Americans (like OP) think Europeans are jealous of them and that's why they shitpost about America. Americans need to actually talk to Europeans about this, because they will find out America is viewed as a deeply immoral and unequal country, stuck in a backward way of life because Americans think it's the greatest nation on Earth.
First, I think OP is making a big deal where it's not necessary. And the US as a nation has done many fucked up things.
That said, thinking about people not nations, I'm American and I didn't elect a felon. Yes, 77 million voters picked Trump, which is shitty and doesn't make sense. 75 million voters chose Kamala. And around 110 million people of voting age didn't vote at all. (Which also doesn't make sense to me)
But you can imagine for those 75 million people it's not going to feel good to be painted with the same brush, and it's not kind to do so.
Americans do deserve a bit of shit for that.
Are we gonna blame the average Russian for Putin? Blame the average Chinese person for Xi Jingping?
trump only got "elected" because the Citizen's United ruling that allowed the rich to spend unlimited money to buy propaganda to push their agenda. So we are blaming "Americans' as a whole? The average American is an underpaid worker who barely have any time to understand politics, and is stuggling to survive in ultra-corporatist oligarchic capitalism. This shouldn't be a European vs American thing. Its always been the 99% of us, worldwide, vs the 1% rich that controls the world.
I don't think its Europeans being jealous but instead that Lemmy attracts the kind of Users who are more anti western/capitalistic (and the US is literally the definition of capitalism) and also users being dickheads about it. Just because Americans have to live and participate in a system that's quite shit, that doesn't mean that they are directly responsible for it and I think that this is something a lot of people forget.
That’s runaway capitalism, sir.
Thanks for the transparency. As I've stated in other comments, I am American and I typically have better interactions here than on other social media sites. I really like seeing which community the individual is from and seeing the upvote/downvote ratio. If there is baseless criticism, most of the time it is either dropped when I ask them for more detail, or an actual discussion springs out of it. Finally, I'm a big fan of sh.itjust.works and happy to be here. I wouldn't have any judgement to give; the internet is harder to tolerate everywhere as more users become bitter and/or hateful.
That's good to hear, I'm sorry to bring this negativity into our community but I just needed to get it off my chest somehow.
I'm gonna echo this poster's comment. Though I don't agree with some of what you said (and do recognize that you were just needing a bit of validation/vent), overall, I love SJW and the work you do. We know it's a thankless task, but just know that you provided a solid landing ground for the Reddit exodus and ppl are thankful for what you do 😊
I think the "jealous europeans" part shouldn't have been said. advice: Don't say you or your country are better than others.
I literally joined sh.itjust.works because aggressive people are my weakness. If I post something with good energy and someone attacks, I'm not a brawl enjoyer; I go straight to kill mode. I considered Canadians a peaceful species, so I made an account here.
In my own realms it's the aggressive people who attack others that I remove. I do not want my new users interacting with them, old users having to interact with them, them to appear to be the face and persontype of my place... I also rule with an iron fist tho. I value diverse ideologies and viewpoints but do not tolerate aggression.
Maybe you are not assertive enough in preventing bullying among your flock and one just reached up and bit you. A clear warning first and to make the bullied person feel they are not in the wrong, then send the bully to another instance if they continue.
Reminds me of a post where someone was being viciously attacked for innocently sharing their view.
I actually felt I had to step in and reassure the poster they were ok after and it seemed to help.
I don't know how people like that are allowed to roam the varying areas. Just make them reroll far away.
Seems like one of that type of person bit you and you lashed back and in so doing "overly defended" america in saying others are jealous; and then you got the downvotes.
I don't see the hate of Americans issue as much as it being acceptable to viciously attack people if not personally sharing their viewpoint; and that shouldn't actually be acceptable behavior. It should be highly looked down on and removed. Being civil isn't just words; it's the energy one conveys toward others.
edit: also people joining or initially starting in just any instance and eventually rerolling to one more fitting them is a natural thing which happened here.
I appreciated your comment, but chuckled at the idea of Canadians as a peaceful species. We have our fair share of ruthlessness, from indigenous mistreatment 🤫 to shutting down our capital during the pandemic to our behaviour during WWI being a cause for some of the Geneva conventions 😅 we're generally a peace loving group, but we don't eff around if pushed haha
For the record I feel the need to point out I do NOT endorse our country's indigenous mistreatment, it is in fact one of the saddest parts of being Canadian.
Edit - phrasing
I'm American, we are rapidly turning into this century's Nazi Germany.
This is not a drill, pay attention to reality
I had indeed noticed the constant derisive comments regarding Americans,
May I humbly object that without numbers to confirm the mentioned anti-American bias (I have no idea on the question myself, and I have no desire to start such a study either) but without any data of how many comments have been posted, how many have been analyzed, and where they were posted, what % of those were blatantly anti-US and even how is defined that 'anti-americanism'—and I don't mean a few selected examples, I mean real stats—all of this is nothing but personal opinions that may indeed be correct, but can also be completely not correct.
It not only depends one's own sensibility it also depends where one is looking at and what they're looking for
I mean, would I read content from say an instance like hexbear I'm pretty sure I would find a lot more anti-US comments (but I would also find a lot more anti-anything, and overall braindead-shit) but if I was making the odd decision to eat shit myself, I would not complain it taste like, well, shit.
But maybe I'm just another of those anti-Americans? Maybe not.
Edit: typos and clarifications.
Overall, I think that any mod or admin should use another account to post personal takes. Use the moderator account only for meration and post any personal takes on a personal account.
In general, I agree, but I'm concerned with the prevalence of vote manipulation and shithousing on this site, and I feel like my past track record on this account is one of the only ways for me to protect myself from the constant baseless accusations of being a Russian shill, being a right winger, etc.
I feel that someone needs to be able to counter the increasing tendency towards absolute ideological purity that is strangling this platform, and if people don't know me from a hole in the wall, it'll be that much easier to discredit me when I try to criticize the circlejerking that goes on here.
In other words, I'm a human being, and I have opinions, and I'm flawed. But that doesn't mean I can't or don't try my best to act objectively and in the best interests of the server when I'm performing my admin duties. That's reality, and hiding behind alt accounts just to pretend that I'm a pure paragon of justice on my admin account isn't really my style, and I don't really see how it would benefit anyone.
I personally mod using alts, to limit the reach of potential drama should I have controversial takes, or heated discussions with other users.
As you probably noticed, one of the element that made the drama blow up was you making derogatory comments using your admin account. Would this has been on a normal account, the impact would probably have been much lower.
Lemm.ee and Lemmy.zip usually get praised on their invisible admins. You see them post the updates about the servers from time to time, but that's it.
I can't think of anything more american than complaining about anti-american bias while accusing everyone else of just being jealous
Thank God, they bought it - Russian agent imaqtpie
Everybody hates somebody.
I imagine we would have seen something similar directed at Germany if the internet had been around during the rise of Hitler.
Or Russians if they invaded their neighbors
The attacks and humiliation are pretty much exactly what happened to Germany after WWI and lead directly to the rise of the Nazis. The Nazis convinced the Germans that the weimar Republic was too weak for putting up with BRAT from the treaty of Versailles, created scapegoats, and then offered simple solutions to deal with them. Almost exactly what is happening right now in the US.
See also: Palpatine and the galactic Republic.
I still prefer SJW to any other instance, because of threads just like this, afascinating discussion regardless of the foaming at the mouth replies about temporary political trends, like who's president. I've found much more of anti-religious bias at SJW over the years. I just assume that the poster or commenter is either very young or very old and move on with my day. The young will grow up and lose their suspicions by gaining life experience and meeting those practicing different faiths. However, I don't care about insults/bitterness towards fellow Americans.
I still prefer SJW to any other instance
o_O I hadn't noticed that acronym before now.
Can't go back now. Sorry, yo
Can we have new drama please?
I might post about the hexbear reaction to this post later. It was amusing to say the least. But I would post that to !meanwhileongrad, this has already been plenty of drama for the main community.
America isn't a true democracy. There's gerrymandering, and electoral college, and first past the post. But it used to have one little bit of democracy left at the federal level. And then America voted for Trump.
Kamala didn't even get the popular vote. Because Americans didn't think it was worth trying to win that like they did in 2016. The popular vote is the bragging rights to say the government doesn't represent the people, and Americans didn't want it.
So, Americans chose to be thought of by the world as fascists. Not all of them, but most of them didn't get up and choose otherwise. Few enough said no, that more were able to say yes. The default American image is a fascist. Nobody should be beholden to a default image, but that is the starting point. The mode average.
this is a nitpick, but Trump actually closely lost the popular vote once all sources were fully accounted for.
With 96% of the vote in, Trump has, according to the Associated Press, 49.97% to Vice President Harris' 48.36%, or 76.9 million votes to 74.4 million.
Drag can't find your statement in this article. Did you send the right one?
just saw this scrolling on all or whatever, first i will say yeah, lemmy is fairly anti american, as an american, i hate the people here too, i really don't see very much content where ppl are hyping their own countries though, i think the general sentiment is that we all are p fucked at the moment and i think most would agree that it comes down to corporatism, imperialism or nationalism, and great marketing that makes some people feel safe enough, secondly, i grew up with the explicit reverence of our isolationist war view as well and how cool and honorable it all ended up for us, 400k i will fucking laugh at for that one sorry, it really did suck all around, but later i was lucky enough to be taught just how america got fucked over with it and all the propaganda that came out of the aftermath, it was mainly economic w war reparation debt being cycled in a way that really fucked america into making their whole front the economic greatness that followed and it's uncouth to talk about where any of the manufacturing power to create these cheap goods came from, but also third where i disagree, as someone raised on so many different alternate social media sites growing up, there's always a more obscure image board, but to doubt the possibility of government media on your chosen board is irreverent to the point of sacrilegious, you'll see it happen time and time again i'm sure as the way things go, grow up
I've almost stopped using Lemmy because of the kind of content you're describing. I've never even told anyone I use Lemmy because I don't want them to judge me by association. The politics on here is extremist, hateful, divisive, and non-fucking-stop.
I disagree that it's not CCP/Kremlin bots and shills. I think a LOT of it is. Without ongoing support from those malicious authoritarian governments, Lemmy.ml, lemmygrad, and Hexbear would have half the content and engagement.
Yeah it's bad, so bad that even trying to call it out gets you attacked. I definitely agree that there could be shills, but surely there have to be more real users than shills? In which case we just have to make sure that the real users don't fall victim to the divisive tactics of the shills. I haven't given up yet, I'm a stubborn bastard.
Agreed, seems there are more real users than shills/bots, and I try to avoid fighting them. If you take a little time and tag users you suspect of spreading misinformation, it gets pretty easy to identify the frequent offenders pushing Kremlin/CCP talking points.
You got a point, it is difficult to sort out the bots from the tankies when it comes to international political content here or on lemmy.world. I don't want to yell at tankies any more, they are real humans who are literally earning their bread.
Yeah I don't want to yell at tankies either. They're generally trying to do the right thing, but unfortunately a combination of ignorance and arrogance means they're causing harm instead.
But the paid shills, fuck them. I hope they die in a drone attack as Ukrainians defend themselves from the sociopaths in the Kremlin.
Have you tried blocking political and news communities? That helps to reduce this kind of content
I've intentionally left it unblocked because I want to do my part to make the fediverse succeed. But at this point that might be the best approach. I'll probably do that or just leave.
For what it's worth, I've always appreciated your positive and helpful contributions here. If Lemmy was full of users like you it would be fantastic.
Too online. No comments against Americans actually matter, none of this matters
Notice that I said Americans, not America
I don't see any crticism of Americans on here, though I could not read your fine print, and I need to preface the rest of what I will say with I want the best for Americans.
And if I hear one more fucking person say that America only joined World War 2 after it was already over
That is an act that America did, and it was definitely motivated by ensuring control over Germany instead of USSR. No Americans were offered the freedom to not storm Normandy. Your lead comment of "Chinese/Russian agents" behind your angst is also something America would say.
That Americans/Westoids trust America in its justification for war on Russia and future war on China, that they trust America after an election where both parties conspired to elect Netanyahu's favorite for genocide, is a problem Americans are too powerless to stop. A defining characteristic of Americans/westoids is being misinformed as a result of their trust of, and identity wrapped up in an evil America.
There is a strong likelihood that what you perceive as toxicity to Americans is toxicity towards those defending their trust of America.
