I think it's stupid to say they have always been fascist, but people definitely don't grasp what fascism is, they think it's people marching in nice grey uniforms on the street and concentration camps out in the open and if you try to call anything that's not that they call you stupid and overreacting
"All men are created equal"
is slave state
Always has been
Would you say it might apply to an openly genocidal state conquering its neighbors?
How about when that state also has up to 30% of its population by region in racial chattel slavery?
How about when the genocide is done and the slavery ended but it still enforces apartheid politics?
How about when it overthrows the government of any neighbor it disagrees with?
Invades other countries and kills millions?
But, hey. It's not technically fascism as long it's white men voting to do that, right? They usually weren't even Italian! It's stupid to call it fascism when it doesn't come from Rome!
Doing evil things =/= fascism.
Fascists do evil things, so do others.
I think this is the best video on fascism https://youtu.be/5Luu1Beb8ng?si=Bfyx8qpyz9EbuFQX
I don't disagree that fascism has been part of the US always but it has been everywhere, it never went away, but it really came out with trump whether you think Trump is a fascist or just a useful idiot/ opportunist capitalist is up to debate imo. But his following has a large group of fascists.
They worship trump to an almost religious degree, they use fascist symbolism, they are predominantly white and believe they have a right to rule and be on top just because, they accept minorities and some lgb (not T) people as long as it lets them get into the position of power, then turn on them ( as seen by the many leopardsatemyface posts about gay republicans)
Fascism is a specific political ideology that has some telltale signs not just a collection if evil deeds, what's the point of using words if we bend the definition to whatever we want to say?
Best not to use to academic language when dealing with those that Academia has failed so thoroughly. Or the ones who already know and don't care cuz they got enough of a kickback from kicking down.
That's already happening. We just do it in otuer countries. Genocide denial included.vThis wasn't Fascist enough for the libs.
House of Representatives Votes 269-144 to Ban State Department from Citing Gaza Death Toll
To be honest, it's not even the "they came for you" bit, they are just coming for themselves now. I mean, if the orange idiot succeeds in dismantling NATO and imposing sanctions on US trade, China will def be the new leading superpower.
NATO is what props the dollar up. They are trying to undo the change in foreign relations the US made in WWII, and they will def get back to the pre-WWII US as a result.
Including segregation, no rights for women and no labour rights. Basically back to the days off the robber barons. And the morons will still be blaming the libruls as they lie in their bed, unable to afford a hospital while dying from silicosis.
if the orange idiot succeeds in dismantling NATO and imposing sanctions on US trade, China will def be the new leading superpower.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly fond of the Chinese government, but it's HARD for them to become worse than the US in terms of international policy, destabilizing progressive countries, and outright promoting coups against leftist governments. China has no Vietnam carpet bombing history, no Chile or Iran coup support history, no banana-republic support history... If China were to become the new leading superpower, there is definitely much more hope for renewed strength in leftist movements around the globe compared to the current state of affairs
China has an active genocide going on, recently effectively annexed Hong Kong, and is threatening Taiwan. They're also a dictatorship, while the US at least has some semblance of democracy. A country like that exerting their power over the world unchecked seems in no way better. Probably not really worse than the US either, at least whenever there's a republican president.
Tell me that you don't know what fascism is without telling me you don't know what real fascism.
What the USA has been for a long time is an oligarchy, and there are literal Princeton studies to support it. It's only now that it's following Russia into becoming full-fledged dictatorships.
Yeah, Trump's movement is fascist, and I'm sure that we'll be in some kind of fascistic autocracy if he wins the election, but I think what this meme is trying to describe is imperialism, not fascism.
That would make sense, imperialism and colonialism go hand in hand. Maybe fascism is the inevitable consequence of when expansion is no longer possible and the imperialism and its faux patriotism turns inward.
Why not both
brain dead take.
Always a racist slave state? sure. A military cult since like 1910? sure. A broken oligarchy? sure.
Fascist? defs heading that way. Not always.
You clearly don't know tour hustory.
France going the same direction.
Unfortunately much of the world is going in the same direction… really worrying to see. A third great war seems inevitable in our lifetimes
Are you saying a country built upon colonization, Genocide and slavery has a systemic problem of oppression?
We just need to vote harder for Genocide!
a country built upon colonization, Genocide and slavery
Which country wasn't?
Probably the two most unusual things about the US are that instead of either absorbing and assimilating, killing off, or enslaving the natives we mostly relocated them and that we imported most of our slaves from overseas instead of primarily enslaving the conquered people(s). I mean those, and we're one of the later examples of all of it in history.
Which country wasn’t?
America is an outlier. Concentration camps and intentional shipping Europeans overseas with the intention to colonize an 'unpopulated land (see "thinking the Natives weren't human")
Most of history lands were conquered and populations were absorbed into a kingdom. Occasional Genocides too place but wiping such an area to replace the natives is special. Not to mention it all happened just 250 years ago.
Adolf Hitler was literally inspired by how America wiped out all the brown natives and replaced them with the white Ubermensch.
We could start by agreeing on the definition of the term. Because 30s fascism is no more, and that is a fact. What constitutes fascism in todays world? As an Argentinian, the USA meddled with my country via dictatorship whthin operation Condor. That amounts to fascism, or at least, a subtype of it. I think Frank Zappa warned us about this...
It's authoritarian tribalism based on nationality. In other words the forced elimination of opposition, because of the belief in one's superiority. And since one's superiority derives from their nationality, it inevitably has to include some traditional values. Any in fighting is just arguing over the meaning of their nationality. I don't understand what people don't understand or how they keep getting it wrong.
Lol true
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
As per the wikipedia definition, it does seem the USA has been fascist towards the rest of the world, just not towards its own citizens (overtly) until now...
So if we agree fascism can apply internationally but not domestically (which is not usually how the term is described) then the meme is accurate
As per the wikipedia definition,
You stopped real close to the top of that article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#By_scholars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism#Umberto_Eco
So, we have an imperialism which has both historically been in place around the globe and constantly been effecting an in-group, which exists internal to borders, and an out-group, outside them. We also have a couple different in and out groups within the US. Black people, Native americans, you name a racial minority, we've done fucked up shit to them. So, pretty textbook so far. Violent military expansionism, imperialism, and high levels of domestic racism is what most people would probably tally up fascism to be as, colloquially. They might not even pick up on a dictator being a central component. We also have corporate capture, which is pretty solidly the case in america. We have an erosion of public utilities and infrastucture. We have a police state. Fervent nationalism, controlled mass media, blatant theocratic intervention, you know, we have all the classic markers of pretty much all the definitions.
The only qualification I can cook up is that we're presumably a "democracy", right, which I didn't really even think of as being a requirement. You can have a fascist democracy, it's just a democracy where not everyone can vote, which has always been a kind of tenuous characteristic of democracy at best. We went from wealthy, white male land owners being the ones to vote, to rapidly most everyone being able to vote, actually fairly recently, in the grand history of the US. Especially horrible once you factor in gerrymandering, segregation, white flight, and redlining, which means that the average black voter had much less say (and still does have much less say) than your average white voter. We also elect people, who elect people, with more or less vote weight on both a local basis through gerrymandering and more or less weight on a per state basis through the electoral college, in a fptp system, where a kind of nash equilibrium ensures that there's only gonna ever be two viable parties or candidates in local, state, or federal elections, for pretty much the majority of america.
So, we're a "democracy", but I would say that we're only a democracy insofar as a 5 month old fetus could be considered a human. We might consider athens to have been a "democracy", too, right, according to the formal definition, but if only white male landowners can vote, then that's already such a subset of the population that you might legitimately be closer to an oligarchy at that point. And both an oligarchy and a democracy can be plenty fascist. Hell, the germans arrived at their fascism through mostly totally legitimate democratic processes.
So, I mean, yeah, america's pretty much always been a fascist country, sorry to break it to ya.
thank you
Based
This just isn’t true
How so?
Their killings of minorities were just run of the mill racism. A bottom up approach if you will
And this is why 405000 Americans lost lives fighting against nazism and Japan imperialism? I do not belive how this is both offensive and stupid.
They did it to uphold Anglo imperialism. That's why they intentionally let the Holocaust happen and were fully prepared to integrate Nazi Germany into the international order after their invasion of Poland.
Also why they spent the next 60 years fighting to keep colonies from gaining independence.
This reminds me far right conspiracy theories
I seriously recommend you to read about imperialism. Imperialist nations (i.e. late stage capitalistic, industrialized nations, with sufficient accumulation of capital and sufficient development of monopolies, trusts and cartels, to the point of the most profitable action being the export of capital to other, poorer nations, with or without the consent of the locals), clash with each other in these attempts to expand their sphere of influence. This happened in WW1, WW2, and we're seeing it again with the Russian-NATO conflict which led to the Ukraine invasion.
Right, and the heroic Soviets also fought to combat the evil that were the Nazis, because they were natural enemies, no other reason no... /s (just in case it wasn't obvious.)
Being a facist doesn't stop you from fighting other fascists, especially when those other fascists are fucking with your shit. The only difference until now was that the two parties managed to deadlock each other needing the support of an uncaring populace to gain total power. Once one ultimately wins, this whole "pillar of democracy" thing is over. Having literally only 2 parties for centuries is a bad omen for democracy.
In his book How Fascism Works: The Politics of Us and Them (2018), Jason Stanley defined fascism as "a cult of the leader who promises national restoration in the face of humiliation brought on by supposed communists, Marxists and minorities and immigrants who are supposedly posing a threat to the character and the history of a nation" and that "The leader proposes that only he can solve it and all of his political opponents are enemies or traitors."
While this resonates with trump, could you tell me how this fits to other American presidents? What traits US poses to call it "fascist"?
oOoOO yet another damage control meme delivered to you by DNC.
Unless Biden steps down this week I think it is inevitable.
Thats prob gonna cause a repeat of the Democratic party post LBJ
I hadn't really ever directly connected the two, but yeah the Democratic party has always had problems organizing. Hopefully, if we are forced into a similar situation, we get it right this fucking time.
No parties like this bullshit two party Winner Takes all bullshit, if we're going to pretend like democracy is a viable option. If anything can be said of the differences between back then and now, I would guess that overall the Democratic party at least appears to be more humble in the past than it is now despite being humiliated by a clown is such as Trump. The party's and this country's eventual downfall I think could be boiled down to everyone that isn't in the Oligarchy's Breast Pocket, being unwilling to compromise or even speak their neighbors, who might disagree with them.
Either the left bites the fucking bullet and humble itself enough to figure out some way of getting through to at least a chunk of the Republican voter base, or get really comfortable with becoming fascist itself and propagating its own brand of violence, to the point of killing.
Terrorist shithole doing terrorist shithole things. They had a good run for over a hundred years. I hope Trump burns it to the ground.
The innocent people who will suffer thank you for your total lack of humanity/empathy
As if the world gives a fuck about the innocent.
We (the lucky ones) exploit every vulnerable country there is, but pat ourselves on our backs for having 'humanity'. Child labour, slavery, inhumane conditions in almost every supply chain.
Forget about the 3rd world, how about US outlawing being homeless?
Like everyone in the nations the US turned into shitholes? They might actually.
Be me
Moran (sic)
"Lmao, when the US collapses, they totally won't make it everyone's problem"
Are you under the impression that Trump’s destruction of the US won’t involve him doing 10 times more terroristic things all over the world?
Or that the powers that will invade the power vacuum left by a US collapse wouldn’t instantly start resuming the exact same terrorism, and worse, that you are (with every righteous reason) opposing when the US is doing it?
He must be in the "but I did nothing, for I was not _____" stage.
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that if open fascists spouting fascist rhetoric at every opportunity take full control of THE MOST EXPENSIVE MILITARY IN THE WORLD, that it will just self-implode into a nice neat little controlled demolition.
Lmao that is naive at best. And actually wishing for it is downright stupid. I don't want Russia to collapse and kill itself, I want the scum leading their politics and militaries to be dealt with in the only manner befitting such filth. Anyone wishing different for the US or Russia, or ANY current or former world superpower that still has massive amounts of sway and firepower, is just wishing for collateral damage.
When shit hits the fan, it goes everywhere. When their backs are against a wall, they will strike out and take what they want, to hell with the fallout. Possibly literal.
A sad number of people just go "[large country] bad lol die" like their lives will be unaffected by such a massive global power shift.
Of course the void will be filled by other terrorist nations. But none of them have the power and capabilities of the US. It's like replacing a shooter with a stabber. Still shit, but less so. Plus, who knows, maybe the EU will finally step up.
the power vacuum
power vacuums are fictions created by intelligence agencies to justify propping up regimes. they are not inevitable natural phenomena
Does your mommy know you're on the computer
they admin the instance with (last i checked) the largest lemmy community (c/piracy). does your mommy know you can't read?
America is sitting on enough nuclear ordinance to end the earths period of habitability… if she falls then who knows what happens with those nukes, is that really a future you want to risk?
People seem to forget that we actually maintain those things, and we are the only ones that have ever used one, well two. The only way the American collapse goes softly for the rest of the world is under a liberal or leftist government. They'll focus internally. Trump literally tried to use nukes multiple times in his last administration.
I don't have a future.
