E-Bikes Should Not Require Pedaling, Proposes U.K. Government, Diverging From E.U.
E-Bikes Should Not Require Pedaling, Proposes U.K. Government, Diverging From E.U.
E-bikes could get faster, more powerful and not require pedaling, in a move announced today by UKGOV. Cycling organizations are opposed to the plans.
E-bikes could get faster, more powerful and not require pedaling, in a move announced today by UKGOV. Cycling organizations are opposed to the plans.
We're basically talking about a low power motorcycle/scooter with optional pedals at that point.
I think the question becomes, should you need to be licensed to operate and should you have to register/insure what essentially become ultralight motorcycles?
If you could get a $1-2k "motorcycle" that was an electric bike, having about a 45 mph top speed, a 20 mile range, and a detachable battery that you could take inside with you to charge, it would be such an efficient, practical method of transportation.
I really like the US take on this one actually. I'm pro ebike and absolutely love motorcycles, but 45 mph is too fast to not require a licence.
Here we have 3 classes numbered as such. Class 1 is 15 mph pedal assisted, class two is 20 mph pedal assisted, and class 3 is 28 mph and allows a dedicated throttle. Class 3 often has limitations for certain bike trails, but most class 3 comes have variable modes to limit them to class 1 and 2 speeds. Generally as long as you're following trail speed limits you really don't have to worry.
This part varies by state, but in general anything over 28 mph is considered a moped and requires a proper license. As an avid motorcycle rider I feel even 28 might be too fast for non-license, but I also understand keeping up with cars, especially in cities, is way safer so I get why the limit is a bit higher than you'd expect.
At that speed, you want something beefier than a bike frame and parts. A US class 3 ebike is limited to 27mph on a 750W motor. That's stressing the limit of bike parts, even with ebike tires and chains.
A typical human can put down around 250W into a bike, and the best athletes around 400W. 750W plus what you put into it is outside the original intent of bike parts.
If you want to go 45mph, everything needs to go up a notch in design. That increases both weight and cost. A $1-2k range is only possible with the cheapest crap scooter parts. Get closer to $4k and things look better.
People should have some kind of licensing for this. Always should have for the ICE versions, and probably for class 3 ebikes, too. Maybe just the motorcycle license, maybe something specific, but it shouldn't be wide open.
I absolutely agree with this.
At this point making a helmet and insurance mandatory and minimal age is only logical. How many fatbikes will we see if any of the above becomes reality?
Here in the Netherlands fatbikes really started to become a thing after they made helmets mandatory for moped drivers
I've seen those. They're 2-stroke and gas powered
Most of them are 4-stroke now, but thankfully they are gradually fucking off in general and being replaced with electric scooters.
You can get electric scooters. Some country in Asia banned use of gas ones because of the pollution and noise when electric ones became feasible.
Electric moped are a thing. Check out the Onyx RCR
It doesn't add any cost to include a throttle on the ebike.
Regulate speeds, not mechanisms. Moving people to micromobility is a benefit regardless of the form of that micromobility. Speed is the safety concern, not any of this loophole-inducing nonsense.
No, no and no. In our country, there's a loophole in traffic regulation allowing for anything under 25kph on bike paths if it's electric powered. This resulted in a super dangerous situation for normal cyclists. I commute by normal bike and believe my it's terrible:
- food delivery guys switched to electric scooters (think Vespa) and clog bike paths. These things are way too heavy in case of a collision with a pedestrian or cyclist.
- the 25kph speed limit is not observed! Either the manufacturers don't care or the drivers tweak their rides.
- the acceleration is way too sudden. Even a regular E-Bike needs to ramp up to speed. And you see when the driver engages his drivetrain by way of them moving their legs. With a throttle you just have a lump of mass that suddenly jumps forward. Super unpredictable.
So now we basically have way too big, way too heavy and way too quick objects on bike paths endangering everyone else.
There needs to be strict mass limits for vehicles allowed on bicycle paths. There need to be acceleration limits. There need to be mandatory checks for pedal-less ebikes. If a bike from a manufacturer is found that can exceed the speed limit, there need to be existentially threatening fines. Because their products are threatening lives!
Thank you, way more eloquent than my rant.
Still, the issue isn't the presence of a throttle. It's the specs of the machine.
The idea that the law should be framed around whether or not the vehicle needs to be peddled is backwards. The relevant machine specs are what the legislation should address. Which is still, primarily, top speed. All incident evidence we have suggests that below ~20mph / 30 kph, even full automobiles see precipitous dropoffs in serious injuries, so that's the place to start. We see most places really serious about bike networks going reasonably further past that (25 or 20 kph). That's all reasonable. If you further want to have requirements on acceleration or weight, it's worth investigating that.
Having the legislation require peddling is just a way to create weird loopholes in the law. It's pearl-clutching and moral panic. And worse, it creates accessibility issues and can pressure people off the bikeped infrastructure who would've used it reasonably and safely back into cars.
The law should narrowly address the actual problem, not some tertiary smell the problem has created. The idea that a bike that has pedals is magically safer than an identical bike with an identical frame, motor, and everything which has a throttle is preposterous.
I am totally convinced an ebike with a throttle is safer and easier to use for its rider than one without one at any speed. I don't think they should be required -- because that's just silly -- but I think anyone the claiming opposite, that only peddled, throttle-less vehicles are safe, has fallen off the deep end.
You bring up a key factor here: mass. A traditional bicycle weighing 10kg, going 20kph has far less force/momentum than a 35kg ebike going the same speed, and when using the throttle, the acceleration rate from 0 to 20kph increases dramatically as well.
Currently in the US we have people riding class 3 ebikes (and particularly cargo bikes) that can have base weights of 70 or 80 lbs, plus the weight of the cargo, all going at 28mph with a throttle. That's too much momentum to be safe around pedestrians and other bicyclists on multi-use trails.
IMO once ebikes start getting up to 750+ watt motors with a base weight of over 65 lbs, they should probably require some kind of licensing to operate, and perhaps insurance as well.
Here we have these 25kph IAmAbikeAndNotAMotorcylce Frankensteins on the bike lane and I freaking hate it. They go illegaly on the pedestrian, look at their phones while driving, block the narrow bike lanes. They should be supposed to have a drivers license and go on the street. Most if not all of them are food couriers. They should be treated as such.
Sorry for the rant, and funny enough I live in the EU (in Austria)
Same issues with them in the Netherlands. Fatbikes and the people who typically ride them are the worst. Fatbikes dont belong on the bike lane.
Fatbikes dont belong on the bike lane.
Why not?
I have an ebike that doesn't require pedalling and goes up to 35km/h on full power and full battery. No fat tyres, you'll be happy to know. (Although I still don't understand why the width of tyre bothers you.)
I've driven a taxi for years, driving kids to school, doing this in the third gen. My father used to have "gentleman of the road" on the back of his car.
I use the same principles when in traffic.
My bike is awesome and the reason I don't need to own a car myself.
Better bicycling infrastructure would be cool, and I support something that would come between be between pedestrians and cars as a a lane. I mean, bike lanes already exist, but a more dedicated "light vehicles" lane or smth that you can't walk (or cycle slowly) on.
.....isn't that just a motorcycle or scooter?
Yes but speed limited to and in bike form. I guess yeah you can argue it's not a bike anymore but who cares? To me the important thing is that it should be allowed in bike lanes if it conforms to existing ebike standards. People with disabilities might not be able to pedal and I don't see why they should be prohibited from using a bike lane just because their bike is powered entirely by electricity instead of just mostly.
I think the distinction will come down to the frame and how you sit on it
Bureaucracy described!
Based on the other things the UK gov has been saying, I assume this is some ploy to reduce the prevalence of e bikes.
I don't really see the point in removing the ability to pedal. What, just to remove yet another age old tried and true basic technology from our lives? Pedals offer an alternative natural power source when your battery gets low, and some people still occasionally enjoy exercise.
32KPH ≈ 20MPH
That does sound fairly reasonable for a bicycle speed limit. Most typical mechanical bicycles tend to have an average comfortable cruising speed of around 11 to 12MPH. Max speed really depends on the gearing of the bike and how much energy the rider can put into it, but it's not unreasonable nor difficult to refrain from going over 20MPH.
If I do ever get an electric bicycle, I want mine with the option to pedal as well.
They are talking about removing the obligation to pedal, not the option (which I agree with you, it's a good option to have)
I think it's a very sensible decision, I'm from a EU country with 250W limit which is very anemic for the dangerous city streets we have in my town. A throttle is much safer especially when starting from a stop, but it's currently illegal to have on.
Huh, okay, I get the article a little better now. Sorry I'm not very familiar with rules and regulations regarding electric bikes, or even mechanical bikes for that matter.
Where I live, the only regulation they have for bicycles actually applies to automobiles, they have to give bicyclists 3 feet of space when they pass. That's it. No speed limits, no helmets necessary, just use common sense and don't ride in the middle of the highway.
I'm glad to live in a very bicycle friendly city.
E scooters are completely different:
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they have significantly less range for the same battery size.
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can't make it up some hills depending on the torque of the motor on the scooter
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less comfortable to ride a long distance
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easier to store and transport, especially in a small car or on the bus or train (depending on the size of the scooter)
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more difficult to park/lock up outside in public spaces, but can sometimes be taken with you when a bicycle would have to be locked up outside
The OP is talking about electric mopeds, not electric "kick" scooters. The fact that scooter means at least 5 different things is very confusing but there you go.
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I like it. I'm an ebike rider here in Canada and we have 500w restrictions at 32km/h, honestly, 500w might be fine for average size people but I'm a heavy dude. When my bike is restricted to the legal limit, and I'm on any kind of difficult terrain or incline, the machine struggles. I bought a 750nom/850peak ebike for myself and it is absoltuly nessecary for safe and effectic operation. Limiting the power is just asking for me to take an injury or fail to launch.
I still observe the 32km/h limit and leave my speed limiter on.
Restricting the wattage (as opposed to top speed) is dumb. Never mind heavy dudes; consider cargo bikes!
Hub motor I assume. My mid-drive 250W e-fatbike climbs near-vertical hills effortlessly.
Yea, I couldn't find a good step through with mid drive in my price range. I have flexibility problems so it had to be a step through too. But I am very happy with my hub motor.
As long as the speed limit remains the same as for pedal-assist bikes then I don't really see any difference wether the rider is pedaling or not.
Exactly. Class 2 already has a throttle lever.
I think the lines between ebike, escooter, and emotorcycle are pretty blurred right now.
The primary delineation should be speed. This bike path has an upper limit of 30 mph, this road has a lower limit of 45 mph no matter which 2 or more wheels you're on. And no wheels allowed on the pedestrian only sidewalk.
The tech and use has changed enough that governments should rethink this entire space, IMHO.
Ehhhhhh I can't agree. When you're pedaling it's a completely different feel and mentality. It still feels very much like a bicycle and you belong in bike lanes.
No pedaling is a motorbike and you belong on the road.
Only exemption is for physically disabled. I think they could have no pedaling and 30 km/h just so they have access to bike lanes.
Oh, great. This guy 'feels' like it's totally different? Case closed!
🙄
I know what you're trying to say, but in this case "feel" translates pretty directly you how it handles, and differentiating how they handle isn't a bad way of categorizing
Kind of stupid idea. There is a place and need for light weight transport that is assisted bicycle. Our law classifies these (and electric scooters) as light electric vehicles and has special set of rules for them. Things like when driving on pedestrian paths they can't move faster than 5km/h. On roads maximum is 25km/h but they have to wear reflective west. Kids must wear helmets, etc. For the most part sensible requirements.
That said I am of the opinion everyone should take a test to participate in traffic, bicycles included. For bikes there aren't many rules they need to know anyway. They can skip almost all of the signs except those for the right of way. So it would be easy test but a necessary one. And simply bar kids on bicycles in traffic lanes and that's it. Safest for everyone.
It's hard to balance on a bike at 5km/h so that rule alone rules out bicycles from riding on a footpath, which is fine IMO
Not impossible but I think the idea is to make bicycles less annoying to pedestrians.
Just so you know, ebikes sold in Europe don't have a hand throttle, because laws.
But also, most ebike manufacturers use generic motor controllers.
Is there a small panel somewhere on your ebike? Take it off and see if there's a small aluminium box in there with dozens of wires coming out of it.
Chances are, one of those sets of wires ends in an unused black plug, with a red, a black, and a green wire going to it.
That's the throttle plug.
Any old generic throttle from Crapazon will fit it. You might have to swap the wire colours.
Enjoy :)
wait but which wire do I cut to disarm the bomb
If I remember correctly, they are allowed to have a thumb throttle if it's capped at 6km/hr (which is still very handy for starting, especially on a cargo bike). On a generic Bafang/similar motor controller, that's a purely software limit that anyone with a programming cable can change.
People who do this kind of stuff are the reason the rest of us can't have nice things. Same as with Surrons fucking up bike trails and then getting all ebikes banned from there.
Personally I'm of the mind that people should be free to tinker with their things, and regulations should be specific enough to appropriately respond the performance to whatever the thing has
It is not wrong to modify the bike that is your property to change or customize its appearance or functionality. It's wrong to be inconsiderate, or a dick. I think the distinction is important
That's a moped. I suppose they have their space too.
As an American immigrant among the English, I have never seen a deliverer pedal their bike in my LIFE. We're not even talking about changing what happens, we're talking about reducing the burden on the police.
They're too busy putting the boot in on people who don't like genocide, so I get it.
25kph is too slow for road ebikes. I wish they would allow these to at least be 32kph/20mph.
As someone who bikes in Copenhagen i love that they are not faster. E bikes are allowing people to get to speeds that they cannot handle because it is a lot easier. So they go faster than their abilities and becomes very dangerous on the overfilled bike lanes
I'm talking about a typical enthusiast road cyclist rather than the average Joe out on their bike or commuting to work on bike paths. I whole heartedly agree that on bike paths and inner city commuting that we don't need people zipping around busy streets.
The people I know, who ride socially but on road bikes, have modified their ebike to allow them to go faster as on flat roads they simply cannot keep up with the rest of the group. Obviously it's completely the opposite way round as soon as there is elevation involved.
No, it isn't, because it's a bicycle. If you want to go faster, get an electric motorcycle, and get your license which teaches you how to handle those speeds.
25kph is slow for an accoustic bike.
Then get a speed pedelec. Those go up to 45kph, but you are required to wear a helmet, have insurance and have a moped license.
E-moped then? E-motorcycle perhaps?
What's even the point of road e-bikes? They are supposed to be sport devices, where the whole point is to train and exercise.
I am an avid road biker, crunch hundreds of kms per months/week on roads with my road bike and really there is no point in this kind of e-bikes.
I am talking of sport bikes, not leisure or going-to-work type of bikes.
Instead, MTBs make much more sense as e-MTBs due to the kind of terrains they go trough.
The person I know is aging but is an avid cyclist. Sadly they are no longer able bodied to ride a normal bike and keep up with the majority of the other riders they ride with. Having that assistance allows him to get out on the bike. Without it he would no longer be riding a bike.
My dad also got an ebike MTB because riding a normal bike just isn't an option anymore. He's approaching 77.
I live in a hilly area and often see older people out on their bikes in the summer. They all use ebikes.
I don't mind the idea, I'm in the US but I've got a 250w ebike w/the EU speed limit* just because it was cheaper... plus faster is less efficient and human power means I get less blob-like so it's a win-win.
Then again, it does have a twist throttle and I use this most often to slowly approach** or accelerate out of a stop sign (esp. crossing a road). Sometimes I've used it so I didn't need to pedal in the sun (I cannot really sweat). I've needed to use it twice when my chain fell off and I didn't have gloves with me. But generally my legs are contributing something... I wouldn't mind some sort of different throttle programming, but really I don't think my bike is one that is an issue at all w/throttle and throttle programming definitely wouldn't cover all of these scenarios.
Another thing is if I come to a stop and have forgotten to change gears, throttle is a save there too thanks to it not using the chain for its gearing. Or it can just mean less gear-changing in general.
*= 25 km/h (~15mph). I have not changed it, plus my bike (with me riding it at least) is not even quickly hitting this speed, most of the time I was going ~10mph. To hit motor cutoff speed on flat ground I'd probably need to be be in highest gear+PAS and be really putting a lot of effort in (including leaning down for less drag, I normally ride in a relaxed position).
**= cadence sensor does not allow it w/o brake usage