[image] People would probably hate cars a lot less if they were limited in size and speed to a golf cart
[image] People would probably hate cars a lot less if they were limited in size and speed to a golf cart
Pros of golf carts and neighborhood electric vehicles (NEVs) replacing all private cars within a city:
- Only goes as fast as a bicycle, so isn't a viable suburban commuter vehicle, meaning you'll probably only take it to the nearest transit station
- Only goes as fast as a bicycle, so isn't likely to kill people
- Excellent visibility, so less likely to run over children
- Much smaller and lighter, so building parking garages for park-and-rides would be a lot cheaper and less objectionable than with our current style of cars
- Electric
- Smaller batteries than jumbo EVs
- Compatible with dense, transit-oriented city development
- Could be installed with mandatory speed limiters
Cons:
- Less profit for GM and ExxonMobil
The reason cars became so popular in rural areas is that they're the thing that allows people who live there to be connected with their neighbors. They divide densely populated areas and connect low population areas. The relationship cars have to people's lives is incredibly complex and putting forth solutions like this will alienate people from joining the movement. Advocating for walkable cities makes sense because rural communities aren't going to be atomized by regulations like that, and thus it becomes easier to implement.
This post is talking exclusively about cities, I'm not sure why this argument about rural areas comes up so often when it's not relevant.
There are cities like New York, and then there are cities like Reading, PA. The places where you could swap cars with golf cart style cars are pretty limited. It would have a huge and beneficial impact in NYC, and it would be great if smaller cities also had better public transit. But that's why people bring up objections to this sort of idea.
allows people who live there to be connected with their neighbors
Why do you say that? Losing connection with community is the exact reason the Amish ban cars. You rested your whole argument on this, too, so you'll need to convince me a little harder that up is down.
People who choose to live in rural areas are always going to be more wasteful and require subsidization from urban people's taxes. Putting them all in golf carts was never going to solve that.
There is a small city in Georgia, USA that does this. Tom Scott video on it
I knew a guy that grew up there, he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and was kinda shocked that all the other folks we worked with (most of us from other parts of Georgia than Peachtree City) didn't have golf carts growing up. Actually seems like a cool idea, although it only works if you can afford a golfcart
Needs AC & Heat & Doors/Windows. Weather is a thing that people need to deal with. Not everywhere is 70 and sunny every day.
Yeah I find many of these not car cars have a very narrow used case, making them impracticable to scale.
Doors and windows sure. But, if all your trips are 15 mins or less, you probably don't need heat or AC. A golf cart goes about 25 km/h, so in 15 mins you could get about 6 km. That should be enough to get you to your destination. If not, it should be enough to get you to the nearest mass transit station.
And while we're dreaming everyone should have a pony
Never change fuckcars, never change.
Every post on this forum is an S-tier masterclass in trolling, and I love it.
Already exists, Citroen Ami. It's a neat little idea. If you live in buildings, dozen apartments might have 3 vehicles always ready to go. Your key is your phone, as is your dashboard and the rest of the instrumentation. With range of 50 to 70km, it's good enough to run around the city for the day and get it charged over night. It's an interesting concept which people are not going to swallow because they need 6T coal rollers.
My state allows towns to decide if they'll allow golf carts to drive on roads. It's great for small towns with lots of older people.
Ew.
Sounds similar to a mobility scooter, but more practical for carrying much heavier loads.
I'd prefer a cargobike personally, but most of the ones I like are too heavy to move when you're not riding it, let alone with a 1/4 ton load. Those also can't fit into most apartments, you've got to leave them outside or in bicycle storage...
This kart/NEV thing kind of seems like a good compromise, with quadricycle vans possibly being an alternative option if you aren't carrying people
I agree that a bike is generally preferable, but an NEV seems a good compromise for people who need to move multiple people at once or more cargo than a cargo bike can carry. Max one of these per household + bike for everyone + walkable, transit-oriented development seems like a suitable compromise that would be a significant improvement over the status quo.
Just based on the picture, do you expect this to be used anywhere that gets a decent chance of snow in the winter?
People still walk in those places too.
Give it some vinyl doors and you'll be fine in winter time.
This used to be my point against winter bicycles, but when I think about it, these kinds of individual transports shouldn’t be used for long distances anyway, and you’ll still need good winter clothing for walking to the destination after parking anyway.
I just decided to improve my winter gear, and that means I can walk, or bike, or use one of these electric golf carts, or whatever I choose.
Exactly. I'm in Canada, and I often ride my electric scooter to work in the winter, and many ride bikes in the winter here, too. The windshield on a glorified golf cart plus proper winter clothing is all you really need, although maybe detachable side flaps to keep out the wind might help, too.
And I wear full coat in a car anyways for the exact reason you mention: I still need to walk between car and final destination.
Just get the AWD trim with a winter tire package. Keep chains handy too
Only goes as fast as a bicycle, so isn’t a viable suburban commuter vehicle, meaning you’ll probably only take it to the nearest transit station
So it's less practical than a bicycle and still encourages a sedentary lifestyle.
Only goes as fast as a bicycle, so isn’t likely to kill people
Still more likely than a bicycle, without the advantages of a bicycle
Excellent visibility, so less likely to run over children
But not perfect, which a bicycle has
Much smaller and lighter, so building parking garages for park-and-rides would be a lot cheaper and less objectionable than with our current style of cars
Bicycles are so small that you can take them into your apartment, completely nullifying the need for infrastructural storage accommodation near your home.
Electric
You will have to explain this, as it is not an inherent pro of a vehicle to have electrical propulsion.
Smaller batteries than jumbo EVs
Electric bicycle has even smaller battery, still!
Compatible with dense, transit-oriented city development
Less so than a bicycle
Could be installed with mandatory speed limiters
So could regular cars
=======================
You've built a solution that compromises on all the advantages of either and doesn't excel in any.
Some people have never had to balance two massive bags of chicken feed and a propane tank on a rusty bicycle with a bent wheel and it shows.
Some people also don't have physical disabilities or family members with them, and it really shows. Bikes are great, and we absolutely should be encouraging bike use, but the automobile is, frankly, a necessity for millions of people. We shouldn't be getting rid of wheelchairs, either. I swear, sometimes I feel like the fuck cars community is basically anprim. Yes, fuck cars, yes fuck car culture, but jimminy crickets they're not evil. Our use of us them.
You will have to explain this, as it is not an inherent pro of a vehicle to have electrical propulsion.
It is when the vehicle is small & light like this.
Heat engines get more efficient with increasing size. Piston count can be increased (improving balance), or piston displacement can be increased (reducing friction, heat loss & gas leakage per unit volume)
Batteries on the other hand get better with decreasing scale, the net distance from source to sink is decreased so it needs less wire. The total number of elements is reduced so risk of fire is as well. The battery is more replaceable, so aging is less of a concern.
Range compounds the effect. Typically smaller vehicles have smaller ranges, and that's good for electric where the engine is much lighter than the fuel, but bad for ICE, where the engine is a massive brick of iron and the fuel can just be a couple jerry cans slung on the back
In cars, the trade-off is a hotly contested race, but you don't see many diesel skateboards or battery-powered containerships.
This looks incredibly American. As far as small vehicles go this is still roughly the size of a small car, granted it probably weighs less(d safer), but storing it still requires a fair amount of dedicated parking. An E-bike or even better a pushbike seems like a more reasonable choice then.
tfw Americans realize that smaller cars were better all along
The Miniature Microcars of Amsterdam (NJB on YouTube)
Full self driving (and therefore shared) becomes trivial.
What about safety in crashes e.g. off a bridge?
The lower mass, speed, and center of gravity of these vehicles would mean even the lowest cost guard rails would be more than sufficient to stop anyone going off a bridge.
Is driving a car off a bridge really a typical crash? Christ the concern trolling here is really scraping the barrel
It's not, yet often enough (unfortunately one happened in our neighborhood last season), though I think the factors cited by Nouveau_Burnswick are enough to stop the most common ones unless under severe influence
My mom lives 100km away from the city, there are no busses or trains going there. How long should I need to travel to go visit my mom for the day? In a car it takes between an hour and an hour 20. At an average bicycle speed (for a fit cyclist) it would take me 4-5 hours to get to her, I can then have a cup of coffee, turn around and start heading back so I don't get home too late.
This is a problem with the transit authority then, no? Advocate for better transit options where u r then.
Listen, for the last 16 years we have had non stop scheduled blackouts. Going from maybe 2-4 hours a day to now up to 12 hours a day. They can't even buy the right trains for the tracks we have.. If you'd like to change it, good luck to you, the politicians don't care, they're just there to enrich themselves.
Not everyone lives in a perfect utopia.
You use a train like the rest of the civilised world. Should take 30 minutes or something like , you can spend the time you saved helping end car dependency
there are no trains going there though.
Some countries don't have trains, unfortunately.
You need to read and not skim read..