While there were indeed child chimney sweeps, this particular image isn't from the 1800s, nor is it an actual child chimney sweep.
That's a great bit of research. What an awesome website.
Interesting and informative site. Thanks
But we already got rid of child chimney sweepers without getting rid of capitalism
The point is that capitalism prioritizes profit, not the welfare of people. This is only not done anymore because of regulation, not because capitalism was fixed. It can't be fixed. The target goal of capitalism is wrong. Profit does not optimize for innovation, welfare, happiness, or anything else that could be called good. It will always exploit people as much as it can, and it just happens to not exploit children (in the western world (legally)) because we made it not allowed, and disobeying that law would be less profitable.
Capitalism is insanely efficient in allocating capital and setting prices – two things incredibly difficult to do otherwise. At the same time it has the problem of protecting the weakest. But that can be tackled by regulation – which has been pretty effective in the EU for example.
What kind of system would you prefer?
Don't worry give some states a couple of years and I'm sure we'll see child chimney sweepers come back 😉
Businesses in the Midwest US have already been hiring 10-12 year old undocumented kids to work overnight cleaning machine parts at meatpacking plants. I mean… so many different things wrong with that. The psycho fuckers who run these businesses need some real penalties, like jail time and dissolving their company.
We just got rid of chimney sweeps in general.
Despite us regulating child labor it seems like profit motives and greed overpower regulatory measures.
https://www.npr.org/2023/02/26/1157368469/child-labor-violations-increase-states-loosen-rules
Through labor organization. It wasn't out of the goodness of the hearts of benevolent Capitalists, but through struggles of Workers. The point of this picture isn't that Capitalism used to be worse, and fixed itself, but that Capitalists will absolutely take advantage of children and subject them to sacrificing their bodies for clean chimneys if it makes a profit.
The takeaway from this is that Capitalists cannot be seen as individual humans with values, but as cogs in the Capitalist machine that will exploit everything and everyone for profit. An individual Capitalist may not be willing to go that far, but inevitably as long as there is profit to be made, someone will fill that gap.
That's why economic systems need to be looked at at aggregates and not as individual transactions. You miss the forest for the trees.
Now we only have child miners, child slaughter house workers, child assembly line workers, child scrapyard garbage collectors, ...
we just moved child labour to less developed countries. we didn't get rid of anything. you just don't see it, but child labour is still going strong in the world. child slavery as well.
Pretty hard to export child chimney sweeps to other countries
But we haven't gotten rid of child labor even in the US
Alright, let's not pretend that today is somehow just as bad or worse than this when it comes to developed countries, but we still need to make changes.
What's bad is that even with the preponderance of historical evidence, there are still people who would absolutely return to these practices if the government let them. In many cases they do it anyway.
Child immigrants have been dying in meat plants left and right lol.
While they aren't as young as this stunted 10 year old, there are absolutely kids crawling through little spaces for family business or shoveling cow shit all over.
We're already doing it in the US. Republicans are pushing to repeal child labor laws. At the same time, multiple meat suppliers have been found using migrant children (as young as 11 IIRC) in dangerous jobs in their factories. This is at the same time that the greedy fucks are hiking prices on your groceries.
This brings up one of the questions I have in regards to capitalism criticism. I understand that child labor is bad I would prefer labor be done safely and with respect. In a capitalist society undereducated and vulnerable people get the short end and often do these jobs. In a communist system dangerous and dirty work still needs to be done. How would labor be allotted that would cause a more egalitarian outcome. Personal example of my family were migrant farm workers. Uncle fucking hated doing field work he saved capital, went to community college, got a good paying job, is now paying my cousins way through cal poly. If the system is set up so that work is done by those who can then realistically he could still be a field hand and my cousin would probably follow him. How does a non capitalist system deter formation and unintentional enforcement of caste systems.
Leftist organization, regardless of Tendency, proposes numerous solutions. Lower working times for dirty jobs, focusing on automating undesirable jobs as quickly as possible, and rotating who does those jobs are all proposed solutions.
I suggest reading leftist theory.
The left is primarily not concerned with the wealth disparity caused by different wages between jobs. What drives inequality, which makes our society less democratic and just, is the private ownership of capital (meaning means of production in this context). It would be totally fair in a socialist society to add bonuses for harder or more dangerous work. What is not compatible is private ownership, not personal ownership of stuff.
You're on Lemmy. Every ill of the world is caused by capitalism, cars, and any operating system other than Linux. Occasionally they leak out of their echo chambers like this post here. You're best bet is to block the creator and move on.
Things get a lot more enjoyable here when you block the problematic posters, communities, and instances.
Some might be wondering what the issue is since he probably grew this one from a little thing.
Hey it's Arkansas' future!
The good old days.
Capitalism is idolatry.
This is a perfect meme because Marxists still believe it's the 19th century
Just go anywhere in the third world and you'll see worse than this everywhere. That's also where all your consumer products come from btw
All the more reason to give them better paying jobs and enable them to build strong institutions.
Capitalism bad, as evidenced by a photo from a couple centuries ago...
Do you think Capitalists fixed this, or do you understand that child labor was stopped by Worker struggles?
I'm more interested how people in USSR had their chimneys cleaned.
ok Advocatus Diaboli, what are some good things capitalism has done?
It's important to remember that even under a Marxist reading of history that capitalism was good/progressive for its time and that it was an essential stage of human development. Iirc he wrote specifically how it had a much better ability to unleash productive forces than feudalism and also allowed for more freedom than feudalism.
This isn't to say it doesn't have contradictions and drawbacks, of course, or even that it shouldn't be replaced currently. It's just to say that hostile responses like "what are some good things capitalism has done?" are ahistorical/unproductive even under a Marxist lense.
I very smart I incapable of seeing the good shit that we have improved and instead of using it as a sign we can keep improving I use it as a? Whatever tf that is
We can absolutely keep improving! Labor organization fixed this problem, maybe it can fix a lot more? We should explore that possibility!
Are you under the mistaken assumption that Capitalism got rid of chimney sweeps?
