A US appeals court Saturday paved the way for a California law banning the concealed carry of firearms in “sensitive places” to go into effect January 1, despite a federal judge’s ruling that it is “repugnant to the Second Amendment.”
A US appeals court Saturday paved the way for a California law banning the concealed carry of firearms in “sensitive places” to go into effect January 1, despite a federal judge’s ruling that it is “repugnant to the Second Amendment.”
The law – Senate Bill 2 – had been blocked last week by an injunction from District Judge Cormac Carney, but a three-judge panel filed an order Saturday temporarily blocking that injunction, clearing the path for the law to take effect.
The court issued an administrative stay, meaning the appeals judges did not consider the merits of the case, but delayed the judge’s order to give the court more time to consider the arguments of both sides. “In granting an administrative stay, we do not intend to constrain the merits panel’s consideration of the merits of these appeals in any way,” the judges wrote.
I'm sure gun people will be pissed at me for this, but wanting to have a concealed gun on you doesn't really make much sense to me if guns are supposed to be a deterrent. You aren't deterring anyone with your gun if no one knows you have it. Shouldn't you want to wear it where everyone can see it so they know not to try anything funny?
I don't think guns are supposed to be a deterrent. Someone running to mug you isn't thinking clearly about the possible complications or repercussions.
A carried gun is a commitment to kill someone before you are killed in a life or death situation. Not too feel cool or show off, or brandish as a warning.
Plus if you dress like a cowboy, someone might try to mug you FOR that gun, making you a bigger target.
That's all pretty heavy, and the odds are low that you'd encounter that situation. So not a lot of people are willing to complicate their lives for it.
A carried gun is a commitment to kill someone before you are killed in a life or death situation. Not too feel cool or show off, or brandish as a warning.
In what world are you living in where someone comes up to you with a gun, in an attempt to kill you and you have time to remove your gun from wherever you're concealing it, remove the safety and aim it before the person trying to kill you can kill you?
The deterrent is the uncertainty of who may and may not have a gun on them. A lot of self defense is making yourself a harder target, the knowledge that a firearm might come into play and the victim may be proficient at using it makes anyone and everyone a harder target. It doesn’t mean desperate criminals won’t still make a move, but it should decrease the number of crimes attempted.
The deterrent is supposed to be the possibility of armed people. The idea is supposed to be that allowing people to legally carry concealed weapons means that any potential victim might have a gun.
On the other hand, many gun owners who support concealed carry oppose open carry for several reasons.
First off, they don't want to make them or their gun a target. They don't want someone trying to steal their gun, and they don't want to flag themselves as the first target for any kind of attack.
But another huge reason is that they feel like the only reason to carry openly in public is to make a political statement and carry around an implied threat. Most people who carry concealed consider themselves pretty normal people and they aren't interested in making statements or threatening others. They just carry a gun.
I'll occasionally carry my target postil concealed just to keep the gun secure while transporting it. It's usually in a safe at the house, but when I'm going to the range or leaving town I'll take it with me, and it's less-likely to get stolen off my hip than it is by having my car window smashed. Keeping it hidden on my person is just another part of firearm safety.
I know you're getting blasted with replies. It's not supposed to be a deterrent. You carry concealed so that you can defend your life with deadly force without having to walk around pretending to be a badass all the time. Carrying a gun doesn't stop crime, it stops people when they make an attempt on your life.
Carrying a gun doesn't stop crime, it stops people when they make an attempt on your life.
It can cause an attempt on your life if an assailant gets it. Or if you feel suicidal. The most dangerous gun is the one you own. The safest thing is to buy a gun and mail it to Alaska.
How fragile and distrusting of other people does someone have to be to feel the urge to carry a gun around on their person at all times? Granted America can be a bit (lol) dystopian but to warrant a gun on your hip to go to Trader Joe's? That's some scared person behaviour. For a nation that wants to come across as being the confident cowboy there really is a scared child behind it all.
Everyone I know that carries does so concealed. They don't care about deterrents or whatever, they're just taking a precaution they hope to never use. Like being mugged or attacked. Source: Texas.
You have far more confidence in people than I do. Hoping to never use it (except perhaps in that drunk fight with my neighbour)? I wouldn’t trust anyone who carries guns on the extremely remote probability that it will help them in a shooting/robbery.
One of my good buddies lives in North Las Vegas and has his CCW. He calls it a crackhead deterrent. I thought he was full of shit until I visited him, now I advocate for moving to a better neighborhood.
There is no such thing as a deterrent that deters people who don't know about its existence, and if you're a target by openly carrying the thing you call a deterrent, that doesn't deter people either.
So maybe the argument that guns are a deterrent should be dropped by the people who want to carry their gun concealed about their person.
If a person with a gun decides they're going to start shooting, are they going to shoot the other person with a gun first, or last?
A law like this doesn't stop criminals so much as it let's them not worry about being shot at. It doesn't stop a criminal from having a gun. It stops everyone else from having a gun.
Explain to me how it makes a park safer to not allow concealed weapons in it. I'll listen to your reasoning. No big wall of text with 50 reasons that would take ages to go over. Just explain to me how a law that stops a law abiding citizen from having a concealed weapon in a park will make it safer.
LOL, "I'm willing to listen to reasoning, but only if you format it in a way that I'm willing to read."
For real, though, fewer guns means fewer gun crimes. The whole 'then only outlaws will have guns' is really a myth. Statistics have shown over and over again that the vast majority of criminals who purchase guns do so legally. If they can't purchase one locally, they just go a state over where the laws are lax. The whole 'black market' gun stores thing is just a false argument.
The idea that a 'good guy with a gun' will make everyone safer is also pretty well debunked. Just look at John Hurley - the 'good guy with a gun' who was posthumously branded a hero after he was shot by the police.
Guns are inherently unsafe. We're never getting rid of them in military applications, but any reasonable restrictions for private ownership should be a no-brainer.
All the arguments for 'private gun ownership makes us safer' fall apart under any scrutiny. So does the constitutional argument. The only real, provable argument you have is that your personal freedom to own a killing machine is more important to you than public safety.
Shooting a weapon is always a risk. Not allowing weapons takes that risk away.
A concealed gun isn't going to do shit when the mugger is already holding you at gunpoint.
I've never understood why you'd want a gun. The risks of guns being everywhere just seems a lot more obvious than the rare situations where they'd actually be useful.
Guns are far more likely to be used for bad than good, that's why you want as little as possible guns around...
if someone sees your gun, they can take it with a surprise rock to the head attack.
also if a decent percentage concealed carry, then crazy people will maybe consider that before doing crazy things?
(i don't agree with that just playing devils advocate)
Lol showing you're armed makes you a target. And someone will take it from your hip. There's videos of people grabbing the gun and just running, so no. You're absolutely wrong here. A lot of idiots are up voting you too, which is sad.
When I was about 12 my family, a long with my uncle, went on a camping trip in Gorman California. The sun had just gone down and we had a fire and we're listening to the radio. My mom was in the trailer with my other siblings and my dad, uncle and I were heating up hot dogs by the fire.
These 2 men walk up to our fire out of the dark and sit down and start being super belligerent and creepy. They have knives and who the hell else knows what. They demand beer and hotdogs. My dad, asks them to leave after giving them both a beer and dog. They don't and keep getting more aggressive. They start talking about things like coming in to the trailer and what what else they can have.
My uncle starts to get brave and tell them to get the fuck out. They don't like that and become more aggressive and get out their seats to hurt him. MY Dad tells them he has more to drink in the trailer. He walks into the trailer and walks back out with 2 hand guns and points them at they guys and tells them to get the fuck out or die. I'd like to say it felt heroic seeing him do this, but I was so freaking scared out of my mind. The men leave and you can hear their motorcycles start up and they drive away.
Earlier that day my uncle kept making fun of my dad for being his guns. And telling him he doesn't need them. In the end, we absolutely did need them and it may have even saved our lives at most.
I don't have a moral of the story here. Just a story. I don't carry in public. I'm not even a huge gun guy. But I have one. And it goes with me camping.
It doesn't make sense to do all this at once: hate cops, hate guns, and be unable to defend yourself.
That's just asking to be taken advantage of by those with more power than you. Expecting people to do the right thing is an innocent and childish view of the world.
But the fact of the matter is that, in situations like this, guns are really only needed because everyone else could have guns. There's a perpetual threat of gun violence. That's what makes the US such an unsafe country for kids and adults alike. People in other developed countries don't have to think this way when they go camping and I'm very jealous of that.
I never understood why the Americans have to carry a weapon at all. I can understand (to some degree) to want to own a weapon (to defend your home from other people with guns, going hunting, shooting cans, etc. pp), but to carry it outside while doing normal things like shopping, dinning, watching a movie?
Congratulations! You are privileged enough to believe that everyone lives in a modern day utopia in which nothing bad can ever happen to them so why would anyone else feel the need to protect themselves.
The worst part is that they leave their guns in their cars and then they get stolen and used in murders and robberies. The people who conceal carry are usually not the people you want doing it anyway.
The 2nd amendment makes exactly zero references to a right to carry a concealed firearm. That instead has been read into that text by the fruitcake majority on the USSC.
Imagine, if you will, a law that restricted your right to free speech on any public property, or on any private property that didn't affirmatively give you permission. Or religion. Or any other right. Sure, you have the right to free speech, but only in your own home, and not even online unless your ISP specifically says it's okay, and not by phone unless the phone company gives permission. You okay with that? If not, why would you be okay with this?