Is lemongrass and all the other hippy-dippy calming tea ingredients bullshit?
Is lemongrass and all the other hippy-dippy calming tea ingredients bullshit?
I buy these things but I wonder if they are truly pharmacologically-active and not just bullshit. Discuss
The aromatic oils in plants contain the same sorts of chemicals like terpenes as in cannabis, and many are known to be pharmacologically active, including mental effects. Myrcene, for instance, is abundant in most cannabis and also found in verbena, lemon grass, hops, mango, West Indian bay tree, and cardamom.
For example here's a paper about the psychological effects of mint oil: Volatile Terpenes and Brain Function: Investigation of the Cognitive and Mood Effects of Mentha × Piperita L. Essential Oil
Another one...
Therapeutic and Medicinal Uses of TerpenesEver had black coffee with cardamom? It's very tasty, imo, and it has a strange calming effect on me, despite having a bunch of caffeine. Almost like the world just quieted, allowing me to hear everything more clearly. I've never known why, but maybe this is a reason.
As Tim Minchin said:
Do you know what they call alternative medicine that's been proven to work?
Medicine.
I mean, a natural medicine doesn't cease to exist after a pharmacologist "discovers" its use. Willow tree bark is used to make asprin but there are still warnings out there that there is no scientific proof of its efficacy.
Maybe the medicine derived from salicylic acid is the only effective thing about it, or maybe other presently unknown compounds contribute in a way that will later be used to develop a new medicine.
Valerian root for example has been proven in animal studies and other clinical trial to have some effects, and possibly interact with GABA receptors but the mechanism is unknown and it is still described as having no science to back up its uses, despite being similar to Willow in history.
I'm not saying this to encourage people who go 100% naturopathic and might swear that all modern medicine is a poison. Just want to include some nuance in a conversation thats is often way too extreme in its convictions either way.
You are absolutely right, but I wasn't talking about natural medicine, but alternative medicine.
Not bullshit but not magic either.
For example, L-Theanine is psychoactive, lots of clinical support for that.
Additionally, I would say that the ritual around "sitting down and having a nice relaxing cup of lemon & ginger tea" has some calming benefits in itself - even if those benefits are not from the ingredients in the tea.
Ya, maybe the bullshit part was a bit excessive as a rhetorical flourish 😳
For example, L-Theanine is psychoactive, lots of clinical support for that.
Which one is that in, and how much?
I drink a ton of this shit, as far as I can tell it's just warm and tasty.
Green Tea is one of the best natural sources of L-Theanine I think.
It's available as a refined "supplement". I have no idea how much L-Theanine there is in Green Tea vs the refined supplement, and no idea how efficacious the supplement is.
Also no idea in which circumstances you would notice any benefits. The thing about anxiety and stress is that it's an umbrella term that describes a bunch of different conditions each of which can be caused by a multitude of different issues. Who knows which of those issues L-Theanine might mitigate.
It's often recommended if you're going through withdrawals. I've heard it recommended for people stopping caffeine (harder than it sounds) or even SNRIs.
Yes! The ritual and opportunity to reflect while drinking tea is probably more potent?
(Why am I still on my phone while drinking my 4th cup of tea? Fuck...)
A worthwhile thing to keep in mind whether it's for tea, supplements, or whatever, is that medication is based on things that were observed from "natural" sources.
For example, willow bark was/is/has been used for pain and inflammation. It also contains salicin which is similar to acetysalicylic acid, which you'll know better as aspirin.
Does that mean all the things people say do a thing work? Not at all. Do some of them have varying degrees of effect of some percentage of people? Yes.
Whatever the heck lemongrass actually does, it sure tastes delicious
It never seems to get its own one-man show, its always lumped with at least like 5 other ingredients so I can't isolate it but I'm sure you're correct. I love lemon + I love grass so ya
Like all of the supplement industry, it will depend on a couple things. One, what are the regulations in your country? How well are they enforced?
In the US, there is next to no regulation or enforcement, so often these things don't contain what they claim to, or not the amount claimed. So you're looking at third party testing groups or just trusting the manufacturer. Mostly the adulteration isn't harmful, but generally inert. So if there's very little or nothing there, it's most likely placebo.
Next - even if you do get the dose of what it claims - I think it's still very likely placebo, extremely weak or extremely variable effect. "alternative medicine" that has consistent effects on most people every time even when they don't know what they're taking isn't usually alternative anymore - we just call it medicine.
All that said - I personally don't see any issue with using a placebo for psychological issues - "it's all in my head" so applying a "just in my head" fix seems reasonable as long as it's working for me.
In case I'm perceived as biased or part of BigAntiCalmingTea, I'm consuming a cup right now...
Everyone's biochemistry is different, that's why we had the opioid epidemic and not an opioid pandemic...
It might work on others, but not you. And for a decent amount of people it works for, a significant amount are having the placebo effect.
So just go into it with an open mind thinking it may relax you, and it might. Even though I've just told you it could be placebo, that doesn't hurt it's chances. (Crazy side note: the opposite of a placebo is a nocebo, something that gives a negative effect. Being aware of that does prevent it).
If you do it for a while, simply the act of putting a kettle on would have you relaxed before you've taken a drink. It doesn't matter why it works, just that it does.
that's why we had the opioid epidemic and not an opioid pandemic...
Maybe. But I think there are also just a lot of people that are not dealing with enough trauma and mental pain (pain-killers/type not specific) that their inner voice stops them from seeking it out.
My dad had a friend with brain cancer. He was in hospice many years ago and knew that I had struggled with addiction. He said he had received hydrocodone and oxycodone after surgeries before (he'd had many) but they always made him nauseous and feel like shit. Then at the end when he was in hospice they gave him a fentanyl patch. He said "MyName, WOW, I FINALLY UNDERSTAND how people can get addicted to this stuff now. This is remarkable!"
Off-topic story: shortly after he passed I was looking for ways to painlessly "catch the bus" on the internet (I'm fine now, this was many moons ago) and bawling my eyes out as I thought about my family and what I'd be putting them through. Suddenly, the piano next to me blasted as if someone had pounded 10 of the keys at once as hard as they possibly could. No pets, no other people home.
I've been through a lot since then and am happy to say I am doing fine now, but that's one of those many WTF moments that turned me from a staunch materialistic atheist into a more spiritually understanding person.
That and the DMT. Only slightly riffing, DMT came way before that.
Not gonna lie, I'm kinda tempted to start a line of rage-inducing Anti-Calming teas...Maybe ephedra or some shit
Lots of comments talking about product quality and research, and that's totally true. However bear in mind that when it comes to infusions, the effects are likely to always be mild, and you also have a lot of personal taste influencing your reaction.
Take for example camomile, which has anti inflammatory properties. But how much camomile are you consuming with a single cup of camomile"tea"? Not much; also, the effects are topical ( on contact), and a drink usually doesn't stay for too long on the same spot of your throat. A cup of camomile isn't going to make a massive difference if you have inflammation on a tooth gum or your throat, and it won't do anything for inflammation on your knee. And if you dislike the smell and taste, that's not going to help at all.
I just googled it and it says this:
Amino acids and fragrance substances in tea can calm us down. In late night, a calming tea can help us sleep better. Theanine's calming effect is the long-term result of tea-drinking. The higher theanine content can effectively suppress caffeine's stimulation in our nerve system.
I think theanine has the best claim to this
Edit: Sometimes I wonder if its legit more aromatherapy than pharmacotherapy. Ain't hating on it, whatever fucking works :)
Whatever keeps the wolves from the door(s of consciousness)
Placebo effect is real.
Not only is it real, but you can still benefit from placebos knowing that they're placebos! VSauce did a pretty cool episode on it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=QDCcuCHOIyY
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QDCcuCHOIyY
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That's why double-blinded studies exist.
Maybe it is, but that shit really helps me
A lot of them are just subjectively calming your mind, I think, by being warm, soothing and pleasant. The main exception for me is chamomile, which I have seen some minor results with. Which is slightly annoying because I don't particularly like the flavor. At all.
It doesn't help me stay asleep though, just fall asleep. Can work sometimes when I've had a little too much caffeine.
Melatonin helps me stay and fall asleep, which is bad for me somewhat considering I can easily accidentally sleep 12 hours if my alarm goes off during a deep sleep cycle. But if I had something to help me fall asleep and maybe calm me for a few hours, that'd be ideal.
Maybe I'll try some chamomile.
It depends completely on the plant, the processing (if any), and other factors. I know nothing about lemongrass but St Johns Wort for example is GABAergic, acts on serotonin and dopamine, and under controlled trials shows clinical significance.
Placebo is one of those factors and it can be a MASSIVE factor. Conversely, nocebo, the opposite of placebo shows that if patients do not believe something will work, even though it's shown highly significant clinical success, chances of it working on them are far less.
I haven't noticed lemongrass calming me but I like the flavour though I'm generally pretty calm already.
[Napoleon Dynamite] Lucky :/
I remember going to a tea shop years ago. The person working there asked if I wanted one of the samples they had. The conversation went like this:
"It's good for heart health, your liver, and getting rid of toxins."
"Does it taste good too?"
"Oh yeah. Of course."
"Ok. Let's start there."
Tea can do many things but it's not medicine. That's stupid.
Some work; some don't. Google Scholar is a good way to find out whether testing's been done. Here are 2 less time-consuming ways 1) https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/list-all/ 2) https://examine.com/ The other thing to watch out for is whether the bottle you're buying actually contains what it says it does. The only verifying organizations I know of are NSF and USP. Manufacturers have to pay for those lab tests, and if they do, they post NSF or USP logos on the bottles. If you just look for "natural" or "organic," you won't find anything about the presence or absence of the supposedly active ingredient. As jmp242 said, there's no regulation in the USA, so there's a lot of snake oil.
Good points, I just wanted to mention another database that is useful for finding information about supplements based on actual research studies. Unfortunately it requires a subscription but some Universities and Libraries can provide access.
By personal (yet anecdotal) evidence, I can testify that at least camomile works. The regular tea is not concentrated enough for me to have any noticeable effect, but the oily extract (apigenin) does wonders for my stressed-out brain!
Are you talking about specifically tea, or are you talking about tisanes, in general?
Give skullcap a try if you can find the extract or a tea, that one worked super well for me to help get to sleep
What do you think or Yogi-brand teas?
I haven't had a lot of luck with that brand, but I know it's popular so maybe some do. Bigelow Stress Free is one that has skullcap and worked well for me. But it's a bit hard to find :/ which is weird because I actually really like the flavor too (rose and mint.) Rather than stress relief I use it as a sleep aid though - it's more of a "lets you sleep" than "makes you sleep" which I like.
I want to buy them and drink them too 🍰
No. In fact I have never seen a health claim from a hippie that was not eventually borne out by science.
Idk dude I had a real old school asheville hippie try to tell me once that you only got lung cancer if you smoked filtered cigarettes so I'm not sure about that
Lemongrass reduces anxiety:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26366471/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21767622/
.
But where are the multi-center, double-blind, placebo-controlled cross-over studies on thousands of subjects???
You may ask...
Ain't nobody got incentive for that. It's lemongrass.
Super real.
Lavender has a wonderful sedating effect. I like to science, so I vaped some essential oil once upon a time.. very nice calming effects that make you want to sleep, but that doesn't knock you out. Great sleep, nice and cozy.
There's limited hard science becasue what's the incentive??
But thousands of years of use in practice, so that says something.
You don't inhale random things to see what happens what the hell is wrong with you.
Where's your sense of adventure?
I made an educated guess that my lungs wouldn't melt and my brain wouldn't shut off. It worked, was nice, might try it again.
There are essential oils I would dare do this with, but in terms of bronchial irritation and LD50, lavender oil is pretty tame.
The incentive is a publication on your CV.
The problem is that people don't know how to search for scientific articles, and aren't versed in understanding what makes a study a good one.
Nearly all "alternative medicines" have been scientifically studied. The difference between them and regular medicines are that the real medicines have a clear clinical benefit.