Nebraska governor signs order narrowly defining sex as that assigned at birth
Nebraska governor signs order narrowly defining sex as that assigned at birth
Nebraska's governor has signed an executive order directing state agencies to use narrow definitions of a person's sex. Republican Gov.
Nebraska’s Republican Gov. Jim Pillen on Wednesday signed an executive order strictly defining a person’s sex.
The order notably does not use the term “transgender,” although it appears directed at limiting transgender access to certain public spaces. It orders state agencies to define “female” and “male” as a person’s sex assigned at birth.
“It is common sense that men do not belong in women’s only spaces,” Pillen said in a statement. “As Governor, it is my duty to protect our kids and women’s athletics, which means providing single-sex spaces for women’s sports, bathrooms, and changing rooms.”
I still don't understand what business the government has defining sex. How is that in any way the government's job?? If anything, it could be up to medical organizations, such as the AMA, if they had sound arguments. But, the government? I really try to at least understand everyone's logic even if I don't agree with them, but this is just so insane. I don't get it.
That’s because there is no logic, the people that want the government to define sex have a purely emotional reaction to the very existence of trans people… and most things that don’t align with their narrow life experience and worldview
Not that I agree with what is happening but they are defining it in legal terms, which is absolutely their job. A simple example might be killing someone is just killing someone, and the government defines what is murder and what is manslaughter.
ITT: Everyone conflating sex for gender...
It's actually quite important. Your sex are what your chromosomes are, your gender is what you identify as.
Your sex doesn't change, your gender does.
That's literally the definition of it.
This is important especially for medical purposes, medication, surgery, emergency care...etc all has variations based on your sex, because different sexes are predisposed to different classes of problems and interactions. This also applies to REPORTING, reporting that a medication affects someone born female different than someone born male is an extremely important distinction.
Incorrect reporting literally costs lives.
It should to be standardized, just like everything else that has significant consequences on well being.
Politics are ruining what should be completed apolitical.
Just a reminder if you are worried about your children being ogled by trans people in the "wrong" restroom: There are ten gays for every one trans person, so the likelihood of being ogled by people in the "right restroom" should be ten times higher. The solution is not to police who uses what restroom, but to design restrooms that don't allow for ogling!
I swear, the only proof of a grand gay conspiracy I've ever found is the bathtub urinal. Walls, people, real walls, not plywood separators that have gaps between the doors and opening on the bottom.
Also don't for a second think that they aren't coming for gay and lesbian people next.
Yeah the Christians are planning that.
That, and like, don't flatter yourself (person who is afraid of getting hit on by a hypothetical gay guy in a bathroom). Most people, the vast majority, look like 20 lbs of birdshit.
There's better places to date and get asked out anyways, like a gay bar, or at a fun climbing gym. If you do get asked out (which won't happen), take it as a compliment for not looking like hell and move on. xD
I think the main concern comes from females not wanting males in their bathroom.
Please hear me out – wouldn't requiring females who identify as men and look like men, to use women's washrooms, be virtually indistinguishable from a cis man using women's washrooms? It seems like this law might actually result in more manly-looking folks in the women's washroom, as all trans men would be required to.
Also, how do you enforce that? Is there going to be someone checking ID at the door, but only if you look "manly?" In that case, wouldn't a male who identified as a woman, and looks like a woman, be able to slip by undetected anyway, or is this "bathroom bouncer" going to check everyone's IDs?
Even if I agreed with the thesis that people born with penises shouldn't be allowed in women's washrooms (and I don't), any implementation seems like it has far too many flaws to be remotely effective.
Instead, how about bathrooms have actual, private rooms instead of stalls with doors you can see over, under, or around? Wouldn't that be a more practical solution to the problem of bathroom privacy?
Thanks for reading. I'm curious to hear your thoughts.
Great point! This is exactly why we shouldn't be forcing ftm trans people to use women's restrooms.
There are men that you've encountered, or even know personally, that were assigned female at birth and you would never have any fucking idea. These people are completely indistinguishable from cis men, and have zero business being in a women's bathroom.
But no, people like you ignore their existence because it's inconvenient to the argument you've invented to try to justify being a piece of shit.
Can't wait for them to remember that trans men exist. There's going to be a lot of shocked Pikachu Republicans when men who look like men show up in "women's spaces" because they're being forced to.
Wish I could be a fly on the wall to see that fucking awesome scenario.
And trans women are going to get harassed or worse for complying with this law. Fuck all this so much.
Seriously, trans folks, you don't deserve this bullshit and I hate that your existence is the controversy of the moment for Republicans. Be well and take care of yourselves <3.
I recall an article about that exact thing happening - a trans man had to use a women's restroom because of the local red policy over his birth cert saying female.
People saw a man enter a woman's restroom, and proceeded to beat the shit out of him.
It's a feature, not a bug.
Don't ever forget that for republicans, cruelty is the goal.
It's designed to put trans people in an impossible position. Use the bathroom you want to and get brutalized by the cops, or use the bathroom you're legally required to use and get brutalized by private citizens while the cops look the other way.
It's also gonna suck for any cis women accused of being trans, and subject to invasive "verification"
I remember reading an article of this exact situation happening
It's not gonna be fun at all because it will involve trans men being threatened and assaulted.
there's gonna be a lot of
shocked Pikachuviolent Republicans
Intersex is a thing.
Very rare, though.
There are more intersex people in the US than trans people.
Most advocacy groups estimate that 1.7% percent of people are born intersex — the equivalent of about 5.6 million U.S. residents
Polling by KFF and The Washington Post shows that there are nearly 2 million people nationwide who identify as transgender or trans, representing less than 1% of all adults
Source: https://apnews.com/article/how-many-transgender-intersex-laws-0218b75a197f07d8c51620bb73495d55
What percent of the population do you think is trans? Genuinely curious.
Oops, just saw the other reply. The one you ignored and didn't respond to. Has a source and everything.
Your "argument" here is bullshit, because intersex is less rare than trans. But you'd never know that based on the current political conversation, would you?
sMaLl GoVeRnMeNt
They just want it small enough to fit in your underwear.
Of fucking course. The law equally prevents the rich and poor from sleeping under bridges.
Does this mean that if there's a clerical error and your baby's birth certificate lists the wrong sex, it's illegal to get it corrected?
Probably not.
This reads a lot like the Indiana Pi Bill. Granted, that one never passed, but it's a pretty old story: politicians think they know better than experts.
And now that our Supreme Court has thrown Chevron Deference out the window, that old story may have a different, much worse, ending.
Look at how they just forced the EPA to stop protecting over 60% of wetlands in the US. Look at what they're doing with the FDA and mifepristone.
Bad times ahead.
ITT: Everyone conflating sex for gender...
It's actually quite important. Your sex are what your chromosomes are, your gender is what you identify as.
Your sex doesn't change, your gender does.
That's literally the definition of it.
This is important especially for medical purposes, medication, surgery, emergency care...etc all has variations based on your sex, because different sexes are predisposed to different classes of problems and interactions. This also applies to REPORTING, reporting that a medication affects someone born female different than someone born male is an extremely important distinction.
Incorrect reporting literally costs lives.
It should to be standardized, just like everything else that has significant consequences on well being.
Politics are ruining what should be completed apolitical...
And it looks like lemmy is just Reddit again, except at least on Reddit you can find an informed opinion before the bottom of the thread. This thread is completely devoid of critical thinking....
You didn't say anything inaccurate, but you also appear to be missing the point almost entirely.
“It is common sense that men do not belong in women’s only spaces,” Pillen said in a statement. “As Governor, it is my duty to protect our kids and women’s athletics, which means providing single-sex spaces for women’s sports, bathrooms, and changing rooms.”
This isn't about clinical reporting standards. This is about being able to regulate social settings based on sex instead of gender. By legally clarifying the definitions, there can be no confusion when they follow this up with banning male-sexed individuals from female-gendered bathrooms.
Umm... I hate to tell you this but this is propagating some pretty harmful misinformation...
The reactions to medications are actually more closely tied to the hormone balance and body fat distribution of a person than their sex. It's a common issue in the trans community where birth certificates are non-updatable that a doctor will prescribe meds for a person's birth sex but because they are fully transitioned through HRT they get the effects more common to their phenotype presentation. This means that treatment is more commonly in line with their gender identity because of their hormonal medication and other procedures like an orchiectomy that make a person more similar to where they transitioned to then where they transitioned from.
With trans paitents by and large the safer way to behave is to go with the "if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and talks like a duck... If you are in a pinch and can't ask them for specifics because they can't talk - treat them like a duck." While a lot of doctors aren't super well versed in trans specific healthcare it remains a huge problem inside the community for trans women particularly being dosed like cis men which often means they respond like cis women to a lot of different things which is on average a little more scary because meds often linger longer than is expected in trans women's tissues just like cis women. Sometimes this causes some cascading problems.
Pharmacology wise the way trans folks react to different medications is still a bit of a frontier science... But dollars to donuts "just treat em like their birth sex and call it a day" is way too simplistic a take. The lived experience and often physical nature of gender do not stay nicely behind a cordon marked "politics". Trans ignorance in healthcare can be very scary for someone whose endocrinologist has informed them what they should be given and treated like and then some hotshot resident could just decide to not listen should the trans person in question be placed in a position where they are in extreme distress and have to self advocate and educate the person caring for them on what may be the worst day of their life.
This is important especially for medical purposes, medication, surgery, emergency care... [...] Incorrect reporting literally costs lives.
Surely that was the intention 👀
“It is common sense that men do not belong in women’s only spaces,” Pillen said in a statement. “As Governor, it is my duty to protect our kids and women’s athletics, which means providing single-sex spaces for women’s sports, bathrooms, and changing rooms.”
The Nebraska and Oklahoma orders both include definitions for the words “man,” “boy,” “woman,” “girl,” “father” and “mother.”
Also
And it looks like lemmy is just Reddit again, except at least on Reddit you can find an informed opinion before the bottom of the thread. This thread is completely devoid of critical thinking...
This is a really dismissive way to deal with disagreements (also peak reddit behavior, it's only missing the "edit:")
They edited it 🤣
Sex is far more complicated than just what is assigned at birth. Especially if you take stuff like hormones into consideration.
Nature doesn't work in discrete categories. Almost everything in nature is fluid and amorphous to some degree. Exceptions to every rule humans can think of.
And if you talk about sex about purely what gametes you have, then that isn't really very useful to talk about in practice outside of reproduction. When laymen talk about sex, they mean perceived sex more than anything else (and to prove the point, the article talks about sexed places and such..). Leave anything else to medical professionals.
Yes, and we all know that was the intention behind this order. To protect people from incorrect medical reporting 🙄.
The people you're seemingly mad at never wanted to make this political. Trans people are just people that want to exist. That's it.
Your sex are what your chromosomes are
So we need to genetically test all babies at birth?
Otherwise, I don't know how we would figure out the sex of the ones with Swyer Syndrome- XY but with female genitalia.
And assigning their sex as male at birth doesn't make much sense to me.
One thing that exacerbates the problem is the values for gender and sex are reused. 'Male' can mean 'I identity as male gendered' or 'my chromosomes are XY' (choose one or both). If sex were consistently represented with different values (maybe as chromosomes XX, XY, others?), that might provide some clarity in good faith discussions. Finally, I'm not in medicine so YMMV.
Update: One thing I wanted to add: I also recognize that many discussions are 'not' in good faith and an informed participant will deliberately conflate the meanings of gender's and sex's values. Unfortunately, no recommendation can help a person whose mind is closed.
Edit: Added "Update". Adjusted original comment's casing.
you're making nothing but sense, but you're getting a lot of hate for it. we should be able to talk about this stuff by now without having to combat an onslaught of angry commenters that didn't read what you wrote.
It's literally a carbon copy of reddit. the weird outrage just deflates all common sense.
"assigned"? How can it be assigned when it's a natural state of being? That's like saying the kids also get assigned hair color or eye color at birth.
Funny thing, both of those can change too. I was blond when I was a kid, now my hair is brown, and when I'm old it'll be gray.
You're missing the point. If a kid is born and has brown eyes does the doctor "assign" his eye color? As brown? Or does he observe the eye color as brown?
Saying the doctor "assigns" the eye color could mean it's up to the doctor to decide, when it really isn't. The doctor can't look at brown eyes on a newborn and say, "yup I'm going to assign that as blue"
Maybe someday, someone will successfully describe the difference between sex and gender to a conservative.
It's not about being successful. They don't want to know.
How is it that the US is moving backwards? I am struggling to understand this...
Death throes of a vacuous ideology.
Another victory for Christianity
...there is no longer male and female, for all of you are one...
- Galatians 3:28
...when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, [...] then you will enter [the kingdom].
- Gospel of Thomas 22
Victory? Meh, debatable.
Gospel of Thomas is not canon it is Gnostic. Not really Christianity. Also not even well written imo. Have you ever read that thing? It is tiny and too simple. I frankly expect better from the 2nd century especially given that the John Gospel predates it. I think the first time I read it I had it done in an hour.
You can quote Galatians but you should keep in mind that it was written by a man who thought the world was ending and everyone was going to become these sexless prayer robots. There would be no human gender because there would be no humans.
Like it or not Christianity is anti-LGBT, at least as long as they continue to use their Bible to be the source of what they believe.
Two can play at that game.
In like manner also, those women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shame faceless and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; but (which become women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
1 Timothy 2:9-15
the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man
1 Corinthians 11:3
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord.
Colossians 3:18
Sure sounds like men and women are very different in Christianity to me.
Fun fact: every US president has been Christian.
The idea that the US is not a nation run by Christians is just wrong.