Zelenskyy fires recruitment officials for accepting $10,000 bribes to help Ukrainian men dodge the draft: 'bribery during war is treason'
Zelenskyy fires recruitment officials for accepting $10,000 bribes to help Ukrainian men dodge the draft: 'bribery during war is treason'
All of Ukraine's regional army recruitment chiefs have been fired after an internal investigation discovered widespread corruption.
On one hand, I absolutely agree with this. It's human nature to want to avoid such a fate if one can reasonably avoid it. If I had the money and could buy my way out of participation in a fucking war...I'd hate to think that I wouldn't.
I know it's their home and things like that...but not everyone cares about those sorts of ties, and they become even less meaningful in death. I'm not saying I condone their actions, just that I understand.
I mean, I have some sympathy for the ones giving the bribes. No sympathy for the ones taking the bribes who are being charged.
For sure, that's what I was commenting on. Can't speak at all for the one's accepting the bribes, knowing what it means for their fellow soldiers.
Military pay is shit and you've got to make up the difference somewhere.
Living in a warzone isn't cheap.
Trust me, you'll find an official to bribe in such a situation in Eastern Europe. This is a PR move, to arrest some from time to time and show that in the news. Happens regularly.
I would definitely try to get out too. Either by bribes or just fleeing
Ultimately human conflict is meaningless and there's a non zero chance that you'll be immortal if you survive the next ten years.
Well, "I understand" doesn't mean much here, now does it?!
I understand how many people who are unable to feel the pain of others, including the pain that they cause to others, such as Sociopaths, Psychopaths, Narcissists and so on will, if they think they can get away with it, not at all refrain from causing huge suffering to countless other people if they themselves come out of it better.
And it's all irrelevant: whilst it's psychologically easier for them to cause suffering to others (as they feel no guilt) as individuals with agency they're still the ones who choose to or not-to cause suffering to others: if they act thus they should be punished, if they don't they should not.
The only thing the "understanding" brings is putting such people higher up the list for surveillance and as suspect when it comes to detecting and punishing the harming of others than people who psychologically find it a lot harder act so because, unlike this group, they feel guilt.
If it's a crime, do not fire them, lock them up in pris-
President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called the actions "treason" and has initiated criminal proceedings.
Oh. Oh well.
Also, one of the main reasons the Russian army has been underperforming is corruption. Loads of money siphoned, incompetent people getting positions, you name it. Zelenskyy is also making sure the same doesn't happen in his country and stays on top performance/efficiency wise.
His country has no choice but to. Even though Russia is a big bumbling country with oodles of corruption and a poor military - they have a huge population they can draw from.
Russian tactics during WWII was to use that overwhelming population to their advantage to buy time for them to get their military and manufacturing base up to scratch. Then when they countered, they still had more than enough people for an overwhelmingly large army - it wasn't through good training, or good supplies that they won, but through just being the biggest.
Ukraine doesn't have that luxury. In order for them to survive this, they have to be as lean and as well trained as possible. Each soldier needs to be worth more than 10 Russian soldiers. It's a brutal, harsh world. Attrition is probably the main fear.
Every person who is capable of fighting, needs to be fighting at their peak. So I can totally see the reason for zelenskyy not letting off those dodging the draft - they don't have men to spare.
the Russian army has been underperforming is corruption
Check under the hood of any army and you're going to find all sorts of corruption, graft, and kickbacks. War Is A Racket.
After 2014 they took some notes that ex-soviet army is garbage. One needs a lot of changes to make it reliable and efficient. Lots of ukrainian fighters would tell you that as well (like хрюнчик from reddit), it's just so happens that they took it a little more serious this time and also trained with NATO troops. But the whole beaurocracy, man, it needs to be flushed like a turd. I have a distant knowledge of how it is in Ukraine, but I'm pretty sure that up to 2014 or even further they had everything on paper, no central digital database of draftees, this eased the bribing and fixing papers. Zee's office would have a fun time cleaning this shit.
Zelensky didn't want the job either but he packed up his actor clothes and has so far been putting on a damn fine leadership show. I can imagine plenty of wealthier families are trying to dodge. who wouldn't...10k seems low for bargaining ones potential life. not that any of this or that in ukraine is good right now. I just hope zelensky's soul isn't so blackened that he turns this into a teaching moment rather than punishment.
Zelenskyy didn't want the job, which is why he created and starred in a show that was basically a glorified political campaign.
Bruh what's wrong with this comment section
People who apparently think just lying down and dying is the best option when facing an invading country killing civilians en-mass. I have a feeling their opinion would be different it was their family being killed by invaders, if it was their country facing complete destruction.
If you feel that strongly about it, go fight it yourself.
Lemmy.ml tankies gunna tankie
You should see the threads where the huxbear and lemmygrad users get going!
It's easy to say "you need to fight for your country no matter what you want" when you are at your home in a phone talking in Lemmy
Well, in my limited knowledge and general thoughts about it being treason, I agree with what he's saying as it doesn't come off as these recruiters are trying to be compassionate and save citizens to become soldiers.
Sounds like profiteering favoritism to keep rich and prominent men and women from serving.
This doesn't strike me as 16 year old Billy is getting handed a bayonet and told to die for oil.
Bottom line, against or for the war, people getting rich by saving the rich is a pretty shitty way to do your profiteering.
Is $10,000 the minimum bribe, the typical/average bribe, or the most sensational bribe? Given the news outlet (BI), I'm guessing the latter.
Don't know about you, but I think bribery should be an act of treasen whether at war or at peace.
Treason is a really powerful crime that carries heavy consequences. Bribery at peace should still carry consequences but in some cases (countries) treason alone carries a death penalty. Bribery during peace maybe shouldn't carry such a steep penalty
Agreed, equating them is just penalty inflation.
A more productive focus would be:
- that those who have been shown to accept bribes are actually removed from their position prosecuted successfully.
- Transparent governance with independent watchdogs so that corruption is harder to hide.
Treason carries the death penalty in a lot of countries. But in most countries treason is poorly defined in law so it's difficult to say whether somebody actually did commit treason from a legal point of view because it's difficult to define what treason is.
Oftentimes it's just easier to fire them on bribery charges and prosecute them using the standard peace time legal standards.
But it's useful to call it treason on national television for PR reasons even if they never actually face treason charges.
*This is generally the case for most countries I have no idea how Ukraine defines treason.
No one should be forced to go to war, trying everything they can to escape it is understandable, the only bad thing is that this is something that only the rich can do, but in their place i would do the same.
You just highlighted the entire reason leaving isn't a fair and equitable decision - only those with the opportunity can afford to leave and others will have to shoulder the burden more because of those absences.
When everyone is facing an existential threat, leaving is the same as agreeing with the threat.
But, Black Dynamite, I take bribes in the community!
Alt-righters calling Zelenskyy corrupt and so on all day long. Look how stressed his face looks. He's aged like 30 years since the war started.
accepting bribes is bad actually
being sent to war against your will is bad actually
Being invaded by shitbirds is bad actually.
Not fighting them is bad actually.
Diluting that message is bad actually.
Sure is.
fires? That officer should be arrested.
or sent to the front lines to replace the men they took bribes from
the draft is the real crime
100%
But the chickenhawks here in the US have always been content watching other people march off to war.
Cheering for other people's kids to march off and kill one another.
Booing when they come home, covered in blood and sweet and tears, because they didn't achieve some kind of unequivocal victory.
Then claiming the (((Secret Traitors))) cost you the war by undermining moral with information about what was actually going on.
So tell me when the US should have not been involved? WWI? Let the Prussian empire roll over Europe? WWII? Let Hitler 'clean up Europe from less than desirable people. Or maybe later with Korea and/or Vietnam? Let these countries fall under control of Russia/China. Because yes, it is evident that these countries have a better societal model, just look at the millions folks immigrating there each year (unlike the US) . Your comment is an insult to all the folks who sacrificed their life to provide a better life to their compatriots.
It infuriates me that more people aren't talking about how sexist it is that Ukraine only drafted its men. I can understand instituting a draft when your country is literally being invaded, but it should apply to all able-bodied citizens, not just men.
There is a point in the fact that men are biologically more suited to fight than women. Also no one is preventing a woman to join the military.
In the end it just sucks, no one should ever have to be drafted.
To what end? Just to get woman suffer as much as men in the name of equality? Winning the war is what matters. There are plenty of strategic reasons why you might not want to include woman in a draft. You still need civilians in regular jobs, you will need to population to grow after the war, and overall most military in the world are designed by men, for men, and are extremely missadapted for woman.
A real crime here is the draft. And before the tankies start circling this post, it applies to russia as well.
I usually dislike picking hairs of evil when the alternative solution was getting annexed back into a cultural meat grinder
Downvotes for a comment pointing out that forcing people to fight and die is fucked up? Okay, people...
A lot of keyboard warriors that like to belive they would gladly fight and die for the glory of their country if the time came, but are so far removed from the realities of war, that when they think of war they think of movies and video games, not watching your freinds get blown into chunks by an artillery shell or rocket while you're making an MRE in your trench.
Dude, Ukraine was invaded. The last time the US has had to use a draft for circumstances like this was the Civil War, and everyone now thinks it was warranted then.
The last time the US has had to use a draft for circumstances like this was the Civil War
Didn't teach history in your school?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_States
You won't find a single country on this planet that wouldn't draft their citizens in a wartime situation while you're running out of soldiers. Not a single one.
And it would still be fucked up in every single one of those countries.
Costa Rica doesn’t have an army
If your country is being invaded, you don't have a choice. War is a savage and cruel phenoma. It turns people into animals. What an invading side can do to civilians under occupation is beyond comprehension. The Nanking Massacre comes to mind in modern memory.
You may regard yourself as a pacifist and in the moral high ground, the women and children who get systematically raped and mutilated through no fault other than being a trophy for monsters to use, would think of you in another view.
I know I'm being brutal with my words, but the real fucking crime is the fucking invasion. Zelensky has to do everything to defend it's existence.
Your argument comes down to "sacrices need to be made for the greater good", right?
So, for a hypothetical, if Putin, for some insane reason, offered to leave Ukraine, respect historic border and even pay to rebuild, as long as Zelensky drowned a child with his own hands, would that be worth it? If it is, then what a bout 10 children? 1,000? 100,000? Where's the line you draw of how much of a sacrifice you can make? If Zelensky ordered his men to charge the Russian line unarmed as a distraction for another force, would that be a necessary sacrifice to defend Ukraine, or would it be a crime against humanity?
Or even for a less extreme example, the same as above, but Ukraine must agree to outlaw LGBT people and take aways women rights to vote. Would that be worth it or would compromising morals in that regard be too much?
Regular draft is unacceptable. But this is not a regular draft.
a brilliant attempt to bothsides this invasion situation right here
Their needs to be a term when people use the "both sides" argument in bad faith to try and deflect legitimate criticism. I guess it kind of falls under whattaboutism ironically enough "nevermind the bad things Ukraine is doing, whattabout the bad things Russia is doing?
Draft is slavery
What do you suggest doing when your home is invaded by people who want to erase your culture?
War is death.
In a situation where losing means you lose everything... It's a small price to pay.
Sorry somepeople don`t want to do for a country. If you want to do die. go for It. I wouldnt
losing means you lose everything
Conscripting a guy to go to war on your behalf, watching them die in your defense, and then breathing a sigh of relief because at least you didn't lose anything.
Apple is truck.
See? I can also spew nonsense.
Words do mean things. Conscription is involuntary labor. Slavery is... involuntary labor. A=A.