It may provoke Trump, but Canada should cancel the purchase of F-35 fighter jets from the U.S.
It may provoke Trump, but Canada should cancel the purchase of F-35 fighter jets from the U.S.
The problem is that Canada will never have full control over the heavily computerized planes
They cannot be trusted, that much we know. We need to become independent and not reliant
Existing provokes Trump.
We shouldn't have caved back in the Arrow days.
Bring back the avro arrow. Let's do it.
As should europe. Clearly you can't trust the USA anymore. What is the long-term prospect for spare parts?
From what I've heard you need a password that changes on the daily to start a F-35 and that the US are the only ones that can provide it. If that is true, it's a tremendous oversite for any sovereign state.
wait......WHAT??? it doesn't sound unlikely (tesla can be disabled remotely by tesla), but why would you buy it in such case? That's why I voted the piracy party a couple of times. Not because I fully agree, but just to get people with at least some IT knowledge in
and could we ever trust Canada or Europe? doubt it duh
Yes we can. - an actual patriotic American not in a cult
Where do your doubts come from? Please be specific.
Idiot moron piece of shit retard. Go give Putin a footmassage and the keys to your house you bootlicking degenerate creature.
Spoken like someone from the very very shallowest side of the gene pool. You're a mouth and an anus and not much else.
Kindly - shut up. All those countries you don't trust followed America into Afghanistan, many into other wars. All lost citizens in support of American and joint interests, we did our part, as allies should. Guess we now know who is the real untrustworthy partner, and I doubt any of us will forget the betrayal anytime soon.
I hope your country survives people like you
Fak u
We should throw some cash at Saab and see if they can come up with a stealth gripen or something.
Careful, that’s how you end up with cool sedans and hatchbacks.
Europe already has a program for a 6th gen in the works for 2040 or 2050. Saab should join it! However in the meanwhile the gripen-e is an excellent aircraft yes.
The aircraft has significant security risks for sure and makes sense to cancel. But canceling the order won't be on Trump's radar unless it affects his inner circle of evil billionaires who have funneled dark money to him.
Canada should cancel the F-35 contract and their are better fighter jets from reliable NATO allies. The F-35 is a $2 trillion USD turd that is still not 100%. If Canada continues to purchase US weapons, this would be like Poland buying weapons from Nazi Germany. I am hoping the US MIC becomes pissed off.
2 trillion is a fuckload of drones!
Goddamn right we should. Take the French up on the offer to build the Rafale here. Or the Swedes. And get a few demo units for short term.
Fuck 'em on any cancellation fees too. Consider it partial compensation for the ridiculous trade war.
There was an article last week discussing how that plane calls home every day and that it can be blocked by the Americans. They can shut all of them down within 24 hours.
Time to nope right out of that contract.
None of those airplanes even have similar capabilities. Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.
The only alternative is to wait 15+(realistically 20+) years for a 6gen plane from Europe. And with the alliance dying, who knows how much longer it will take now
Rafale and Gripen are more expensive and in many ways, less good. There is a reason why noone is buying them, or even if they did, they still want to buy more F-35.
Both are cheaper than F35... Do you have an access to the internet? The reason people were buying US planes is they thought the US walked the talk. They clearly don't, so they won't sell those anymore.
Alliance isn't dying, just the US isn't really part of it anymore. The need for alliance is all the more stronger and it's imperative to remove all dependency on the US defense industry within that alliance. The US dropping military aid for Ukraine proves the US is a dishonourable country and shouldn't be trusted for anything anymore. By all indications, the US is surrendering to Russia because Trump is afraid of Putin.
The capabilities of the F-35 only represents the capability of an adversary now. We should use the ones we have to develop radar systems so we can shoot them down, and reverse engineer it's capabilities to improve the fighter aircraft produced by the free world (which no longer includes the US).
F35 is far more expensive to operate, so you end up paying more over the lifetime if you actually use it.
Of course the other aircraft don't have a bunch of fancy features of the F35, but maybe we don't need them, particularly in light of the US hostility and unpredictability. And the benefit of building our own is a factor as well.
As I undertand it, the F35 has only about 55% readiness and suffers SW problems as well.
The US is not the only game in town, and we need to be clear about that.
The US can remotely disable them whenever they damn well please anyway, and can not be trusted not to.
Everyone should be canceling their orders immediately, and disable the remote access capabilities to the ones they have.
Nobody should have ever purchased military equipment with that feature.
Has it actually been confirmed they can do this? I would assume they backdoor them, but usually backdoors are secret.
American here. Who cares if it provokes Trump? Actions have consequences. Canada helped out a lot during 911. What did we do? Prove to be an unreliable partner
100% TODAY! Do not pay a fucking dime of any amount owing for these. (good job on Globe and Mail for a change)
FYI, the Israeli version of F35 does not have this "US permission for every flight required"
F35 is a POS plane, with low uptime, in addition to "broken ownership". Even US military does not get manuals on how to repair/maintain them and must hire Lockheed consultants to do the job. The whole program was a boondoggle to pay Lockheed the most money possible instead of getting good military equipment, and any corrupt POS that was involved in approving this purchase for Canada should be jailed for treason.
There's nothing stopping Canada from getting the manuals and patching the software. Most of the FUD about it's performance abilities is propaganda. So getting them and just locking out Lockheed and the US would be a pretty good middle finger too.
With tariffs hammering F-35 sales, I expect the next Eurofighter project will have a lot more resources. I wonder if Canada will get involved.
Sweden also offered to get us building our own Gripens totally locally. The page for the bid is even still up
I assume we already have pilots trained in flying the F-35 at this point, which sucks if we're never getting them, though.
Any NATO member increasing their military spending would be idiotic to spend their money with US-based companies.
The PM agrees with The Globe and Mail once and now they think they'll get two in a row?
I don't think Canada should be basing their defense decisions on the opinion and thin skin of the American government. Trying to force Canada, in any way, to purchase F35's is fishy - not that that's happening, of course.
Canada's interests are for Canada. Not them. Also, maybe Canada should reboot their ventures into the Avro Arrow program again. That'll ruffle some feathers. Canadian engineered military = quite formidable, I think.
Canadian engineered military = quite formidable, I think.
Here's the bad news. It's not. Sure, we're good at peacekeeping, and we deploy to support (militarily) our allies. But we're using US gear and we're woefully underfunded because war budget has been declared a waste by even the parties who strut and posture about a strong military. We only needed to fulfill our NATO obligations, for decades, and even that has been a struggle we haven't won consistently with the low budget.
And while we're skilled enough and gung-ho, and our 1st Pioneers are about the most scary bunch of lumberjack commandos you'll ever see, there's just so few of them, and again their gear has been called old and out of repair by every administration campaigning because the last one never did a thing about it.
We're gonna need a lot of funding and training and gear to make up the shortfall in people and powpow toys, and that's a slice of gov pork that Milhouse is gonna latch onto knowing that he doesn't need an army once he gives the country over. Justin doesn't want to spend that, but he - and please God let it be Mark next - is really gonna have to.
But how do we sell it to the "hair guy bad" flatlanders steeped in 12 years of hating Justin for not being a pseudo-aristocratic milquetoast conservative?
Here's the bad news. It's not.
I guess what I was trying to get at was that it was at one point and that we could if we wanted to become that again. I wasn't saying our current military is anywhere near the U.S military in any way, shape or form. I understand, quite clearly, just how out matched we are.
I was only putting forward the idea (which I agree with you, on) that we should absolutely rearm and become independent of their technology. We supply them the critical materials for their military. They need it. Maybe we should rethink that (not a popular idea, though).
Nah, y'all should accept delivery then refuse to pay. Give him a taste of his own medicine.
So take the planes, send Trump the bill, when he acts confused you tell him he should really be more grateful about this
"have you said thank you even once"
I mean, without American replacement parts I don't know how flyable they are. Stiffing the US on something is an option for next play, though.
Edit: So, correction. Interestingly it looks like the US is actually dependent on others for parts itself, and Japan has a good helping of all the parts in the whole plane being built domestically, so maybe not all is lost there. (This link looks legit, but disclaimer that I'm unfamiliar with it and you can't always tell at a glance post-AI)
That being said, the software is definitely closed-source, and all their design.
A Trump never pays his debts
Maybe he should get Mexico to pay for it.
ooh no, it might provoke the person who is back stabbing us at every conceivable opportunity
Hell yeah they should. We need to be able to defend ourselves against southern aggression, and the F35 is compromised based on what Trump himself threatened.
With a potential for an american invasion on the table, I wouldn't want to cancel that deal without another similar plane deal lined up
While I do not believe the US will actually invade Canada, I don't imagine the F35 would be much help in that situation. I am sure there are remote access capabilities to cease their operation, at the very least.
the potential for an invasion is precisely the reason you don't want the f-35 around. that warbird is the most technologically dependent device ever crafted for warfare. it is deeply vulnerable to an adversary with the knowledge simply bricking it remotely and you're kidding yourself if you don't think the us military wouldn't brick all of them. the better plan is to train with prior gen jets and asymmetric combat using drones.
Immediate cancel. After attitude readjustment, accept bids from Lockheed and others.
If they were serious about invasions they wouldn’t deliver. We’re better off with Gripens IMO but she’s an even more expensive option.
I don't think an invasion could realistically happen. 1. Need congress to authorize a war that would impact U.S. soil and 2. need the military which isn't under trumps thumb
But making sure they have another deal is smart, probably delay the f-35, and get maybe the euro fighter or so. Solid planes and itd be horrible for U.S. to lose a military contract in NA to an EU. Get the military industrial conplex pissed at trump.
There’s a hell of a lot of “Congress has to authorize” that’s being blatantly ignored right now.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the President has a 30 day authority to use the military anywhere in the world. After 30 days he needs congressional authority. He can get a second 30 days while that's going on and if Congress says no then he has to remove all troops within a final 30 day period.
If Congress never says anything then he effectively has a blank check.
Your best bet would actually be to run TV Ads trying to get the military to refuse the order. I think a large percentage actually would. I also think he's going to invade Mexico first and if he does invade Canada he'll do it like the Russians did Ukraine. (They told their troops it was a training mission and then only told them at the border that it was real)
Every country knows the US changes faces faster than my ex girlfriend.
At this point other countries just need to deal with 4 years of this bullshit.
If Trump were to take over the government like Hitler did, which looks to be the case, only then would countries start looking at dropping the USA.
The "bullshit" might all start against in 8 years, 12 years etc... So it's not just 4 years other countries have to deal with but the lifetime of the fleets they acquired yesteryears.
Too unreliable partner to trust. End of story.
No. There's no telling what comes after these 4 years. The US has proven that they aren't an ally worth relying on, we should look to more reliable partners and building them up and vice versa. Any concession or help offered by the next administration isn't worth the paper it's written on (just look at trump ripping up his own trade agreement for this nonsense.)
We need allies not a neighbour that on a whim might try to throw us into a recession.
When the us comes crawling back we should make them pay reparations for any economic or other damages before they're welcomed back.
Exactly. With a Presidential Monarchy, no deal or treaty can be trusted past the next election (assuming they'll still have those).
More than more Trump, we are also seeing a complete abandonment of the US much vaunted system of checks and balances. You simply can't deal with them except in 4 year periods.
Switzerland too!
What would they do instead? Get a bunch of J-35s, like Egypt?
J35 or the new Turkish planes. Or develop their own plane.
Typhoon/EF2000/Rafale. Not stealthy, but still a superb multi role aircraft.
(Yes, I know Rafale is technically not the same aircraft, but it sprang from the same initial plans, so it's pretty close)
#buyeuropean, I guess
From what I understand, those are fine if you're going up against enemies that don't have stealth (and all the ancillary technologies that go with it).
The general military analysis is that the F-35 and J-35 are superior to anything else in the air and are similar in capabilities to each other. Conflicts between them will come down to who can make more of them faster. Conflicts between one of them and an older generation fighter seems to be, they'll blow you up before you can see them.
EU better get cracking and start making stealth planes.
Let’s do it and replace them with MiGs 🤨