My 300 year old gnome wizard has made it to level 20 six times now, mastering each of the schools of magic before returning to Candlekeep to study the next (and lose all his levels through decades of inactivity)
He's on divination now, and assuming he doesn't die during this campaign, he'll finally master necromancy within the next century
I like to think Elves go on an adventure at around age 70-90, get really super cool, take 100 years off, and then completely forget all their amazing skills because they've been learning the language of bees or doing sequoia trimming as a hobby for the last century.
Would be a cute fluffy class feature to just assign the very old elf an exceptionally difficult but totally useless skill at near-master level, to help explain why the Legendary Warrior of Old is now swinging for the minor leagues.
I do like the idea that elves just change their entire lifestyle every hundred years or so. They spend 80 years as a warrior, then decided to take up magic and became a wizard for the next 80 years.
I also like the idea of a human village that accidentally built 4 statues of the same elf who kept saving them with different skills.
There's a series of books called The Legend of Drizzt last time I checked (it's changed over the years, and the first book wasn't even supposed to be about him lmao) and in one of the books, our main character believes he has lost all his friends (not a spoiler, we already know who is okay and who isn't when he thinks this) and so he goes off alone into the mountains to kill orcs and goblins and shit until he maybe dies. A couple of elves way older than him meet him at one point, and since this is really the first time he's spent with elves long term since he left his underground homeland decades before, he doesn't really know "how to be an elf".
This is basically their philosophy.
Elves can live over a thousand years (one dark elf we know of is blessed by their evil deity and is over 5,000), but dwarves only about 2-400 years (I think?) and half lings about 100-150ish, humans standard 80.
Since you will lose 10 sets of "lifelong friends" at least, if they're human, many elves choose to stick with other elves.
But those that mingle, tend to segment their lives into smaller chunks.
Don't try to live your life all thousand years in one go, you will lose so much by doing so.
But if you think of your life as more "this is me now, I am very different from the person who wore this outfit 5 years ago, and this is who I will be for the next 100 years" then it becomes more manageable.
You never forget the friends and family you made in an old life, but you cannot carry your grief over losing them for the rest of your life.
Those that do end up sticking to their own kind, because it's less painful. (and also superiority complexes)
I had a character who's backstory wasn't too far off from that. The career changes weren't entirely voluntary, though, and usually were because he had suddenly lost all his money and needed to go adventuring again to rebuild his wealth. By the time the campaign was set, he was close to a millennium old, borderline senile, and making some very outrageous claims about things he had supposedly done in the past, like getting into a bar fight with Selune during the Time of Troubles or having once dated Lolth.
This also somewhat appears in the Orconomics book series (very enjoyable fantasy satire with some heart to it), where the elves in that universe are virtually immortal and don't die by aging. Instead they just slowly forget their previous lives if they live that long.
One of the main characters is an Elf who used to be an adventurer of great renown, but is a bit washed up and is constantly comparing themselves with the legends of what they used to be. Also applies that if you were an Elven prince or princess, eventually you age out and get moved lower socially to any newer born royalty.
I think there's also a fun opportunity for the world to just evolve a lot in that time. Like, you were a wizard 100 years ago, but then spells were super different and way less powerful, so now you get to relearn the newer better spells and casting techniques. I imagine it'd be like learning to programming 50 years ago and then starting again now
Like, you were a wizard 100 years ago, but then spells were super different and way less powerful, so now you get to relearn the newer better spells and casting techniques.
That's an interesting (and very Frieren-esque) bit of world building. But it does run contrary to the generic D&D settings/multi-verse, where the same set of spells have existed for centuries and across a multitude of worlds.
"When I was your age, you needed to know 9th level spells to cast fireball" is a cute crotchety one-liner. But it's not going to make any sense when you find a 2,000 year old spellbook with Fireball at the appropriate 3rd level slot. The DM would have to do a whole mess of retconning of an existing setting / pre-written material to make it work.
I imagine it’d be like learning to programming 50 years ago and then starting again now
As someone who did learn programming roughly 40 years ago, there are definitely differences. But an if-statement is still and if-statement and a function is still a function. The libraries and syntax can change, but the basic commands are still fundamentally the same.
I would note that modern programming-as-analog-to-magic would be more akin to everyone having a magic wand in their back pocket to do a set assortment of 3rd level spells per day which they don't even really need to think about other than the command word. Meanwhile, you've got this ancient elf flipping through a spellbook and spending an hour every morning re-memorizing a boutique list of spells nobody has thought to make a wand for in half a century.
Also a very interesting spin on a D&D-esque setting. But hugely divergent from printed materials.
- I'll have you know I was, and still am, probably, the greatest swordsman in all of-
- BREAKBREAKBREAK ENEMY TANK FORWARD GUNNER LOAD SABOT!
An elf wrote this.
I spent thirteen years growing bonsai, fifteen pining over Loravindrel. That brought me into my eight year long emo-goth period which produced poetry I've since fed to the flames. For sixteen seasons after that I meditaed under a plum tree and swept the eight hundred and seventy two dozen and five stars. Six years I practiced the letter œ to master the uhm. Fifty seven years I spent in the arms of Madeleine and our oldest grandchild is about your age. And the last three seasons I've been chasing the south-western gale that robbed her from me decades too early.
Dude, what's even your job? How did you make a living for 106 years just sitting around?
Now I have the idea of a level 7 elf wizard but he's also like level 20 fighter and he just wanted to re-spec
It would be funny if, after a certain point in their life, elves learning one thing made them forget another thing.
It's like Pokemon. You only get four skill slots.
I think I might be that kind of elf.
Sorta turns the AD&D mechanic on its head. And it makes more sense than the way it was done in AD&D - I like it!
Context: in AD&D, humans could “dual class,” which is similar to what you described - effectively retiring in one class and beginning to advance in another - and non-humans could “multi-class,” where they gained experience in two or more classes at the same time, leveling more slowly but getting the benefits of both classes.
Further context, assuming the ruleset governing the OG Baldurs Gate games was true to the tabletop (I know they sort of kludged AD&D and aspects of 3e together). As the above said, a dual classed human "retires" their original class, and then begins to advance in their new class, essentially starting over from level 1, with only the hit dice and HP of their original class rolled over (you cannot access any of the class abilities you learned while advancing your original class). However, once your new class level is superior to your original class level, you can now access both skill sets.
It's a very strange system, and I am curious what the fluff reasons surrounding it are, if anyone has any insight into that edition.
An elven midlife crisis.
1/10th life Crisis
What’s an appropriately Elvish way to say “Now listen here, you little shit.”?
Embrace the wisdom of the immortal's experience, you little shit.
Be sure to throw “spoon-eared fuck” in there too.
Cast thine undivided attention upon me, whelp.
"I'm sure you're too immature to appreciate this, but..."
You wouldn't understand, spoon ear.
I read the comment talking about New Vegas and then I misread this one as "Elvis" and for a few seconds it made sense to me.
Some mods let you play aa a ghoul, making you just as functionally immortal as an elf, if slightly less pretty.
So yeah, making fun of immortals for only being lvl 7 works in the Fallout universe too 😁
DnD (Faerun) elves spend the first 100 years or so dreaming of/remembering their previous lives and the time their soul spent in Arvandor. It's called the Reverie, and is one part religious experience, one part intense training/schooling, and one part idyllic childhood. Interrupting it is kinda a cultural no-no and something that most elves would be uninterested in doing.
Hey if medieval humands have to put our offspring to work in the mines, army, and fields by age 10, those lazy-ass elves can abuse and exploit their kids too.
Does that really take 100 years?
Feels like humans could do that in 10.
Humans form individual memories at 2-3 years. Elves don't start forming memories of their current lives until 30+ and this is considered a tragic event in elvish culture as it generally marks a close on remembering Arvandor. The about 100 year mark is termed the closing of the veil as the lose the ability to remember their former lives.
You term it as a goal post, but they view it as a cutoff. It's more the spigot has run dry than they want to venture.
And they do that for while gaining 0 XP?
In my head canon the people are sometimes just rusty and forgetful, because even if someone lives 100 year, that doesn't mean that they will remember everything or get better at stuff. That is why I think immortal beings that live aeons, can still be surprised or tricked. Being old doesn't necessarily mean that people are wiser.
Sometimes people just need the right motivation to improve themselves.
Yeah apparently elves have some perfect memory bullshit trait and only need 4 hours of sleep.
Just remember most normal people live their entire lives and never progress to level 1, any player character is an exception beyond normal humans, It’s like looking at a teenager and belittling them for not being a god yet.
I played in a commoner campaign (4hp 10 in all stats) about 10 years ago. The 'boss' at the end was a group of four goblins and a goblin boss. Only two of our group of 8 players survived.
It made me look at lvl 1 in a whole different light.
Elves are probably like that ghoul, Calamity, from New Vegas. Every decade or so, she just picks a new name and job or she gets bored.
While the "elves spend most of their long lives in leisure" explanation is kinda nice and Tolkien-esque, it doesn't solve everything to do with their lifespan.
Imagine you have an event in your setting that took place 1500 years ago. That's as far back in time as the fall of the Roman empire is from the modern day. In real life that's a long enough time for multiple empires to rise and fall, for language to evolve to the point that speakers can no longer understand the previous tongue, and for people to change their religion and forget they were ever pagan to begin with.
Elves in DnD live 750 years. A 200 year old elf PC could reasonably say "wait what if my grandpa was there? DM do I remember my grandpa ever talking about this?"
This is a result of taking something that should be awe inspiring and making it mundane (letting people play as elves). And it's not the only instance of that in DnD.
I don't think that necessarily takes away from the grandeur of something. If you want something truly ancient and out-of-touch, you can easily just set it 15,000 years ago instead of 1,500 and no player will bat an eye or even notice, and the elves' lifespan gives an easy 'this is why they remember and are still more knowledgeable with this ancient civilization than other races'.
It's also not any less awe-inspiring to have people who lived in an important time period. We still have living veterans of WW2, and WW2 is no less important or intriguing (as evidenced by the number of historian hobbyists who love to talk about all the details of WW2).
If you want something truly ancient and out-of-touch, you can easily just set it 15,000 years ago instead of 1,500 and no player will bat an eye or even notice
I am currently doing world building for a ttrpg campaign, and recently I did try to set an ancient empire 15,000 years in the past.
The basic idea was that empire A existed 15,000 years ago (them existing while the world was still covered in ice was important to the aesthetic), then they would be wiped out by empire B some time later, only for empire B to be destroyed by a great calamity. I wanted for there to be remnants of empire B still hanging around in the form of people who still worship a few of its god-kings and groups of people who still try to preserve its knowledge and maintain its infrastructure without fully understanding most of it.
The latter group was based partially on the Catholic Church preserving records after the fall of the Roman empire and partially on how the core of the Jewish religion was able to maintain a continuity of information and tradition over vast stretches of time even in the face of mass migration and social upheavals.
The problem was that I underestimated just what a vast gulf of time 15,000 years is. For one I was struggling to fill in all that time with events, and for two I realized that this knowledge preserving group would have had to existed for way longer than I was originally envisioning. Not only would they be older than the Jewish religion, they would be older than ancient Sumer. In fact you could take the entire history of the beginning of the Sumerian empire to the present day and fit it into that span of time twice over.
In the end I had to invent empire C, which refurbished some of empire B's infrastructure before collapsing themselves, as the actual origin for the knowledge keepers. And even with that I still had to move the timeline up by thousands of years.
It’s also not any less awe-inspiring to have people who lived in an important time period. We still have living veterans of WW2, and WW2 is no less important or intriguing
The problem with that is that it would really change the dynamic of how non-elf civilizations would develop. Unless the elves are extremely insular, and even then. How do you have a plotline involving the player characters needing to delve into an ancient tomb in order to discover whether or not the current ruling family are the legitimate heirs of the kingdom when you can just ask an elf? How does the world get into that situation in the first place when you can just ask an elf?
I have two friends who take turns running DnD 5e campaigns in a shared setting who have made elves entirely extinct for that reason.
"You go to ask your Grandpa about it. He tries to explain but is so fucking racist you can't even tell if he's still speaking common. In between gibberish that's probably old-timey slurs, you pick out something like 'follow the quest hook' and 'the dm already told you where to go'"
While it does mess with things when you're trying to get that kind of feeling it does open up new opportunities. Such as in a setting I was making there was an empire that collapsed around 100 years ago. That's long enough there aren't really any humans or other normal life span races people around to remember what it was like outside of stories. But the elves and other long lived races do remember and that can create very different attitudes between people about how they think about the empire and if they miss it's stability or are happy to be free of it on top of the differences that exist naturally between the different cultures.
This comment really highlights the fact you haven't read 2e and 3e source books. The shit your talking about is embedded in the lore and part of the restrictions 5e/Mystra imposes.
I'm not trying to be elitist but you are ignoring aspects of cosmology, religion, and mysticism that actually do matter in the worlds in question.
Even for Tolkien (a totally separate cosmology) you are being dismissive as you neglect the fact that elves are educated in the bardic magic system of middle earth.
You're right that I've never read the 2e and 3e sourcebooks, just 5e and some OSR stuff, but nothing in between.
Most of my experience playing DnD comes from playing in homebrew settings. Maybe the real problem in that case comes from trying to use a roleplaying system that has a bunch of cosmology and mysticism baked into it in a setting that either lacks that or has metaphysics that actively clash with it.
But if so I think that's probably a pretty common experience with how 5e is played.
"Look, I took a gap decade or two, okay?"
Human discovers how to start a
bartavern fight in one easy step"Yeah, I had to spend 50 doing your mom. And 50 before that for her mom, and her mom..."
This can go very dark, very quick.
"Nah roundears I wrapped it up"
Yeah this is a primary reason I hate elves being so much longer lived than humans
Why do you hate them because of that? I love them for that.
Because it makes a complete mockery of history, because it means they're clearly completely incapable of learning anything in a reasonable timeframe (what were you doing for the last two hundred years? picking your toes???), because it means they cannot possible think like the humans playing them as they work on a totally different timescale, because elf culture would have to either be completely alien or stuck in the bronze age, and finally because it just rubs me the wrong way!
Eh, most levelling systems are totally unrealistic and it's best not to think about them too much. If I had to explain them, I would say that at the start of the campaign, the PCs were blessed by the gods with tremendous innate talent. It doesn't matter if one PC had a hundred more years of experience than another because until the campaign started, none of the PCs were talented enough to be extraordinarily good at anything.
But it's so much funnier to picture elves as spending 40 years in diapers.
This is why I love the elves in Eberron so much. They have a strong culture of ancestor worship, and practice the only "positive" form of necromancy. Positive in the sense that it does not rely on magic from the world or others, only yourself and the object of worship. By doing so, they maintain a court of their deceased who continue to govern and advise the nation.
Sure, you can learn how to fight well with a sword in a few years, but it takes a dozen or more to learn how to fight exactly like the long-dead patriarch of your family line.
After spending decades learning how to be like one of their ancestors, they often go out into the world to walk the same paths.That's because you only see the levels of classes that are interesting to play. Most regular people are going to specialize in something that keeps them alive and has more use for the general public. Did you want to play a level 7 Dentist or a level 5 Pizza Chef? And feats like Least Painful Tooth Extraction for the Dentist or Perfect Toppings Distribution for the Pizza Chef?
How many hit die do those classes get?
Can a level 7 Chef take a meat 1d6 cleaver to the face? They should have at least 7HP even with bad rolls and no Con.
