Mystery of ancient Roman dodecahedron baffling experts as it goes on display in UK
Mystery of ancient Roman dodecahedron baffling experts as it goes on display in UK
Experts said they were ‘no closer’ to finding out what the mysterious Roman object actually was
A mysterious Roman object unearthed in an amateur dig has baffled experts as it goes on display in Britain for the first time.
The 12-sided object was discovered in Norton Disney, near Lincoln, in 2023, and will go on display at Lincoln Museum as part of the city’s Festival of History.
Richard Parker, secretary of the Norton Disney History and Archaeology Group, said it was a “privilege to have handled” the dodecahedron, but was still at a loss over what it was.
Oh is that why the fraudulent archaeology group I'm on started talking about this weird meme that seems to think that the Romans understood the concept of knitting and that these would be practical to manufacture for that task.
We've been having a good laugh about it, although it's the typical "what do you scientists know about anything" story that way too many people believe.
Ugh I hate this kind of folk knowledge circlejerking
If it was done with prior knowledge of Roman textile making (i.e. the Romans actually did know how to knit), it would be an okay archaeological experiment, and experimental archaeology is a valid form of archaeology.
But this was not that. This was some lady who knew how to knit, saw one and said, "that could be used to knit gloves."
And the knitters who are part of the group have chimed in and let us know that it is far less practical than a knitting frame anyway.
As someone with a BA in Archaeology, the idea that the Romans didn't understand the concept of knitting, is the dumbest thing I'll read today.
FFS, they weren't cave men...
Hmm. Yeah, it seems like it'd come before weaving.
googles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_knitting
Knitting is a technique of producing fabric from a strand of yarn or wool. Unlike weaving, knitting does not require a loom or other large equipment, making it a valuable technique for nomadic and non-agrarian peoples.
It does say that the oldest known stuff was from 11th century Egypt, but I assume that that's because it's a cloth artifact, not metal, ceramic, or stone, so less survives.
The oldest knitted artifacts are socks from Egypt, dating from the 11th century.[2] They are a very fine gauge, done with complex colourwork and some have a short row heel, which necessitates the purl stitch. These complexities suggest that knitting is even older than the archeological record can prove.[3]
So this leads me to another “might be” kind of answer.
I know that monkey fist and similar other knots to help casting a line to a dock or whatever als frequently have weights in them, the nubs and holes could help keep it from getting lost.
Thanks. I was about to embarrass myself 😅
Just so anyone else doesn't- the Romans didn't know how to knit (it originated around the 11th or 12th century in the Middle East): https://motherknitter.com/history-of-knitting/
First thing that pops into my head is that it was used to lash poles together for tents, awnings, military banners, etc. I am no doubt wrong. But for some reason I think they would work nicely for that purpose, and make the whole kit portable and easy to set up and tear down.
That might actually have been a good guess.
I’d go with some sort of game- like jumping jacks, maybe. Or some sort of weird bocce ball.
My immediate thought was that it was just some kinda ancient fad, like fidget spinners.
Why make such a complicated ass shape when a rope or thong of leather would serve the same end?
Erector bobs
“The imagination races when thinking about what the Romans may have used it for. Magic, rituals or religion - we perhaps may never know.”
Yes, magic, ritual, or religion—the only conceivable purposes for anything archeologists can’t immediately identify.
Just like how the figurines of busty ladies are used for "fertility rituals." I think they were just prehistoric porn.
I think they're dice.
That is certainly one possibility, although I think the idea that these were some sort of worship object or fortune telling device by the Neoplatonists is the most likely answer, as the dodecahedron was an especially sacred object to them because it was to Plato.
A Midplatonist work attributed to the Timaeus of Plato's dialogues discusses it-
According to “Timaeus” the universe has two causes: Mind, which governs rational beings, and Necessity, which governs bodies and all irrational beings. Interpreting Plato literally, “Timaeus” affirmed the temporal creation of the cosmos, and while stating that the cosmos is capable of being destroyed by the one who created it (the Demiurge), he denied that it would ever actually be destroyed, since it is divine and the Demiurge, being good and divine himself, would never destroy divinity. In what is possibly a later addition to the text, “Timaeus” assigns numerical values to the various proportions produced by the mixture of the Same and the Different (these being the two opposing forces, productive of all motion, growth, and change in the cosmos, as discussed in the Timaeus dialogue). The substratum of all generated things is matter, and their reason-principle or logos is ideal-form. “Timaeus” then proceeds with an account of the geometrical proportions of the cosmos, finally declaring that the image of the cosmos is the dodecahedron, since that is the closest approximation to the perfect sphere, which is the image of purely intellectual reality.
Neoplatonism was a pretty big deal in the Empire in the third century.
Either that, or the Romans manufactured and buried them in order to confuse people 2000 years later.
The number 12 was really significant to early Mesopotamia and continued on trhu the Roman age. Babylonians used Base12 instead of Base10, gregorian calendar has 12 months, etc
If it was religious in nature, why wouldnt there be any manual or depiction of it in any of the existing art and structures?
IMO, the answer is because it was too mundane, like a shoelace or a paper clip to us. Someone above mentioned as possibly being for tying tent poles and the like together, which is now my new favorite theory 😃
Seems pretty simple to me. Everybody loved to gamble, so they needed to be sturdy, and also big shiny metal trinkets are cool. They have different sized holes to denote the different values of the sides, and the knobbies make them bounce and roll in unexpected ways and keep them from rolling once they come to a rest.
Obviously you're supposed to put it in your ass
My completely uneducated guess would be some sort of test piece for new smiths. Or a Thneed.
This is my guess. Kinda like making a cube on a lathe is a test for machinists, and making a captive cube within a hollow cube is a more advanced version.
DO NOT SOLVE THE PUZZLE
Cause the puzzle's in pieces again, demons become angels to some
Ok I got a theory and I think it's a good one. I would say that's a measuring tool, like an ancient tape measure, or at least I think I could use it for that. If you chose a zero knob, roll it a certain way, and know how to read the knob it finishes at, you can measure something pretty fast, the holes tells you which knob you are at and measure the fractional part to a 1/12 of the knob distance precision. It certainly must have a bit of a learning curve though.
I actually wonder if this is a coin sorter to help count money of various sizes
Why does it have to have a use? Someone might have wanted to make one such thing because they found the geometry/crafts of it interesting and entertaining.
Strictly speaking, it doesn't. But this isn't a "one of" thing, numerous examples of them have been found throughout Europe. It's been awhile since I've read about them, but in some instances, they've been found in situations that imply they had some kind of special value or significance to their owners.
And at the end of the day "use" is pretty open ended. Even if they were considered art pieces, made while training to build other things, some unknown religious decoration, or just a status symbol -- that's all still a use.
It's obviously a strawberry planter.
I find the antikythera mechanism much more baffling!!
Why is it baffling? We already know what it does. If anything it should be a source of admiration of the skill needed to design and build such a device. I can’t find it right now but someone took the time to rebuild one with only hand tools proving that it could be done accurately by hand and not some mysterious technology.
The only people wanting you to be baffled are the ones trying to clickbait you into visiting their site for views.
Edit It's Clickspring on youtube (thank you @[email protected])
It's Click spring that is in a very long process of building a replica
I like to think they're just random tchotchkes that an artist made to sell. Like random doodads you might put on your desk that have no function or reason to exist other than for its aesthetic appeal, and mass produced for someone to make a buck on.
Kids toys. Someone made a killing one Xmas.
The ancient Roman Furby
