Dear Admins of the Lemmy.world instance I am asking that you please consider defederating from the rammy.site instance as soon as possible as the admin is no where to be found and it has been taken over by right wing posters posting hateful messages. There are also other people posting large amounts of spam and creating empty communities.
What was once a small hobby run general purpose instance has been turned over and made into a festering right wing hate filled breeding ground by the people from exploding-heads. The only recoarse left it seems is to defederate to prevent them from spreading hate to other instances.
PS. I already sent this message to multiple admins here, sorry about that I just felt it was urgent to make sure the message was sent before these people cause more damage.
Seems like pretty average takes to me. Yeah, the polar ice sheets thing is climate change denier garbage but nothing you won't hear when talking to certain people.
To everyone who’s been telling OP off, claiming “free speech” and such: there’s still free speech. They can say whatever they want, but we don’t want to hear it. To correct myself: the majority of us don’t want to hear it. You have every right to convert instances if you disagree. Moderation is always going to be opinion-based; everyone has their own opinion of right and wrong.
So don’t talk about “free speech” and then wonder why you get downvoted into oblivion. We simply don’t want to have to deal with this nonsense. Keep in mind too that Lemmy doesn’t let you block an instance yet(AFAIK); it’s up to the instance admins. Just like a government, a user is going to pick the instance to best represent them. And just like a government, that instance will probably act in favor of the majority. So please just stop complaining. There is no plus to federating with rammy.site and frankly, we don’t need them.
They are not going to stop complaining. A lot of the folks that are on these instances that get blocked have alts or create new ones just to concern troll. It was obvious in this thread yesterday: "wow you defederated preemptively from hexbear but the obvious Anti-Trans right-wing instance stays? LW Admins must Nazi lovers and transphobes!" kind of posts. While in fact we were reaching out to the admin of rammy.site and having a talk/vote on how to proceed - even if it was obvious. This isn't a one-man show and this isn't a full time job it's a hobby so it can take a while for everyone to get his or her vote in.
One of these trolls was an admin of hexbear who was dumb enough to use their name in their email address..
Another hexbear user was angry because I didn't want to transfer a community over to her. She felt like she had the rights to [email protected] over the moderator who created it here on LW because she moderated the original community on reddit. She ask me to just hand it over to her and the reddit mods or rename the current existing one..
After I denied to do that - but proposing the be the middle-man in the talks with the current moderator - she started saying "the community will not like that and they will react to this".
So that's another thing to keep in mind. I just ignore it now and ban the accounts because there is no talking or being reasonable with these people.
Honestly those ultra right-wingers are pretty bad but the ultra left-wingers are worse. And as a lefty that is pretty sad to see. But I'm probably not left enough for those on hexbear and still "imperialistic scum".
The hexbear admin deleted most of their offense posts and then went on the Lemmy admin matrix chatroom saying how bad LW was to preemptively blocking hexbear, pretending to play nice. "It took them longer to defederate from exploding heads" so that must mean they are islamophobic, transphobic enablers."
As if it is not normal that you learn from your mistakes. Lemmy.World is less than 2 months old and we do what we think is best for this instance. We vote on these topics and then act. And we have no obligations to accept that kind of shitty behavior and have our users be confronted with it.
Just want to say, I really appreciate this. It's nice to see moderation/administration firmly put a foot down on right wing bullshit after seeing how much Reddit enabled it.
I am one of those persons that mentioned the hexbear situation here. I was not concern trolling and I find it a bit harsh to lump everyone under this umbrella term this way.
The fact is, historically, many social media platforms have been quick to act against radical left speech but very slow (even complacent) to act against right wing extremism. Society as a whole is mostly like this. So yes, I do have concerns even though I understand this is all very new. No offence was meant by mentioning the previous situation, but it made sense to do it then, to my mind at least.
It's you who don't seem to understand what free speech is. Free speech is free speech period. As long as you have free speech you shouldn't be concerned about someone intimidating you because you always have the chance to answer back and the truth always prevail on evil and bullshit.
So don’t talk about “free speech” and then wonder why you get downvoted into oblivion.
Why? Because free speech! It's super ironic to see people claim to support free speech above all else including human decency, and then go "Edit: All of you downvoting can eat shit and die, Lemmy is just like Reddit!!" Like dude, by your own standard people have the right to also be mad at you. You can't say something like "free speech doesn't care about your feelings" and then complain that people hurt your feelings.
And admins of instances can defederate any instances they don't want to engage with. If you want to be on both start your own instance and federate with both. Start clicking.
Free speech means the government can’t stop you from saying something. It does not mean you have the right to be heard, or even to force people to listen, or that private companies (like Lemmy) can’t remove your ability to post to their platform. Hell, it doesn’t even mean you can say whatever you want without consequences, which can range from being blocked to being banned all the way up to being arrested if it’s a threat.
So, feel free to say whatever you want, just don’t be surprised when you lose your ability to post.
They need to give us (the users) the ability to block instances. So people will stop posting this stuff all the time and we (the people) will have the power.
EDIT Also I love how people never have proof (links or screenshots) to prove you're not lying.
However, instances that spread hate and propoganda should be defederated from regardless if people can block the instance individually. They should not be given an audience to radicalize.
I agree with both of these points, users definitely need the ability to block instances that they don't want to see
Instances which violate your home instance's rules or are a threat to the instance should be defederated to protect the users on that instance and maintain a healthy community.
EDIT Also I love how people never have proof (links or screenshots) to prove you’re not lying.
"That's awful, where can I find it" is what that sounds like.
I know you didn't intend it that way but it does kind of sound that way.
Also if you do want to see it or you think I'm lying you can just go to https://rammy.site and see for yourself, it's not hard to find at all. I'm not going to post links to the posts though, that feels very much like promoting and/or endorsing them and I don't want to cater to people who want to look at awful stuff either as doom scrolling or because they're Nazis themselves, if I'm going to send links to anyone it would be the Admins of lemmy.world, I didn't feel the need though because like I said you can just go look there at the main page of the site.
Also it's already been defederated (hence why I'm now on Lemmy.ca) so I think this situation is resolved.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. We reached out to the admins of the instance but there was no response and it seems like the instance was indeed abandoned.
Well, I'm late to the party, but it seems like rammy.site is failing to load for me.
If it's as bad as it sounds from the quotes I read, then it should definitely be defederated from. Any instance peddling hate and/or propoganda needs to be defederated immediately. They need to be denied audiences.
Edit: Well following the rammy.site link thru lemmy.world does not load at all, but it loads just fine if I search rammy.site on a browser. Could that mean that lemmy.world admins have defederated already, and haven't announced it yet? Here's hoping.
Well, I dont think lemmy.world should be linked with instances that have totally different rules. Maybe small difference in rules is fine, but this extreme stuff will make entire lemmy.world less appealing
Genuine question. If the admin dipped won't the instance die on its own within a month or so? If the admin disappeared I doubt they will continue to pay for hosting.
I'm not 100% sure so don't quote me on this but it could be on a yearly hosting plan in which case the hosting hasn't run out yet, but in the future it definitely very well might and then it will be taken down. Only time will tell.
It could also be hosted locally, and in that case if he still paying rent, electricity, and internet it'll likely stay up indefinitely unless he stops paying for the domain then the server will still be there but the domain will go dead or be reassigned.
I understand. But IMO this is a huge problem with federated server models: you're making that choice for everyone on the server.
Now keep in mind I don't know what they're posting on rammy lemmy instance. If they're doing some KKK shit over there I probably agree with you. But I'd say if it's just right wing Trumpies I'd say it's wrong to do that over political spectrum.
unless they're breaking standard Internet boilerplate rules I don't think it's a good idea. Free speech is a good thing but it always comes with idiots. It's a package deal. Let that reside at a user level. Remember there are extremists on the left just like there is the right.
Edit: One might consider too whether some of these are political propaganda accounts. This should be looked into especially now that AI is so widely available especially.
I'd say it's not quite KKK level content but it's not very far off, their leader said that he would ban anyone promoting violence but he also said it was because we would use it to vilify right-wingers which doesn't make me think he's against it, just trying to save face. It he weren't he probably would be encouraging violence. So it's right on the edge of being KKK level.
Also by the way the defederation has already happened, lemmy.world is no longer connected to rammy which is why I'm replying from a lemmy.ca account.
lemmy.world is starting to go the way of reddit. Pushing people into echo chambers where they literally can't interact with anyone else is not the way to gom
Yeah but it's not like the people from such hate instances would listen, so what except federation can we do against them pushing their echo chamber mode?
What do you get from defederating them? If you are concerned with these idiots go there and teach them what's good, you will do a big favor for everyone. As long as they can't censor you their stupid ideas will never win on good.
You're presuming they operate on good faith and facts and logic. I don't know how you can think that after seeing all the anti science idiots during COVID.
I am a proud member of lemmy.ca (and lemmy.world) and let me tell you I have no idea what rammy.site is not the other one that was defederared from.
What I will tell you, as a left leaning person, is nothing of value is gained from crying wolf every time a person or people disagree with your beliefs even, and let me be perfectly clear even if your beliefs are the better ones.
Op. Step away from the keyboard and from Lemmy and get some fresh air.
Not disagreeing but OP and their vocal counterparts are clearly unhinged. Like does anyone else not see them behaving no different than what they're purporting to defederate from? I mean I was not calling anyone names. I was trying to take a level headed middle of the road approach and very clearly OP needs to step away from the keyboard because they are waaaay too wound up over this.
For me, this other Lemmy instance like you said probably needs to go but I'd argue the same thing about OP. They're opposite ends of a spectrum and equally unhealthy.
To be clear here. I'm referring to CapraObscura. Dude seriously has issues.
You clearly don't understand this situation at all if you think that this is about beliefs or that I'm a liar. Either that or you actually agree with those people over there (if so why don't you go join them then, nazis love to get new recruits).
The reason I made this post and many others on other instances is because these people on rammy are posting incredibly hostile transphobic content which is dangerous because it both causes emotional harm to people, but also can indirectly lead to physical harm (there is a proven link between transphobic propaganda and acts of violence towards people who are trans, look trans, "act trans", etc.). So this is not something to be taken lightly by any means.
Now the problem ultimately is solved because lemmy.world, lemmy.ca, and a few others have already defederated rammy.site for the issues I mentioned here and in my post. However it was important that I made this post to spread awareness of the issue so that action could be taken in a timely manner.
As much as I would probably disagree with their messages and posts, would they not do the same to us if the positions were to be switched?
I personally take a stance closer to "all deserve a connected platform and if you don't like it, block them" as even if I might disagree with them, they still deserve a platform.
The beauty of the Fediverse is that no one is forcing you to choose/stay on your instance. If they want to talk about that stuff, they have their own instances for it. Lemmy.world is meant to be a comfortable instance for all, and if that means defederating, so be it.
You actually don't need to campaign to defederate every instance that offends you. Lemmy provides the ability to report posts and block posts, users, and instances. I get that there are a lot of shitheads, assholes, and idiots on the Internet... Defederating might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater in many cases. Hell, if you listened to everyone shouting about the assholes you shouldn't support no one would be on Lemmy at all. Also, small I hobby instances are run by people with lives. Perhaps the admin will have time in the near future to clean up what's been reported. Or maybe it really is abandoned. We just don't know.
When someone starts campaigning to defederate an instance it immediately starts my senses tingling because I think I'm getting a version of the story... and it's doubtful I'll hear the other side. It offends the same part of as people complaining about downvotes did on Reddit. Take advice from a cartoon dog. "It's not the done thing." Or it shouldn't be, at least.
Had this post just been letting people know what you observed about the instance I would be more moved to investigate and perhaps report posts and block the instance. I might still if I see hateful speech in All... but the implication that their hate will fester, breed, and spread if they aren't immediately defederated is using the same tactics that right wing populists are... by dehumanizing people and playing on other people's fear. It is just as wrong for you as it is for them to do it.
It astounds me that people literally don't get how federation works. The whole fucking point of federation is that we can defederate from instances that have garbage in them.
This isn't censorship.
People are free to go be human garbage in their own instance, and I am glad that we can throw out the trash.
They’re allowed to freely say whatever they want on their instance, but we don’t have to listen. Y’all view defederation like I’m fucking stabbing Caesar in the back again.
Defederation is not censorship. It is refusing to listen to or platform things that you don't agree with i.e. bigots or nazis. Lemmy.world has defederated exploding heads so it stands to reason that they wouldn't want to listen to the same assholes spewing the same crap on rammy.site
You've gotten downvoted, and you'll probably get some more downvotes. But you you took the time to write a thoughtful post, and you made a good point.
But ultimately I feel your point is wrong. Defederating from such an instance isn't the equivalent of dehumanizing people you disagree with. Rather, it's limiting the (potential) scope of harm people with bad intentions can cause.
I get you'd like to see "both sides" or have a fuller picture, but there is enough evidence already that there really isn't any possible "good" reason for their speech, and we should do what we can to limit its reach.
Less well known [than other paradoxes] is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.—In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.
Personally I'm more concerned about the Spiral of Silence.
The spiral of silence theory, proposed by German political scientist Elisabeth Noelle-Neumann in the 1970s, explains how public opinion is formed and how individuals may withhold expressing their views if they perceive them to be in the minority. This theory is often applied to political and social contexts, including the rise of ideologies like fascism.
In the context of fascism or any other controversial ideology, the spiral of silence suggests that when people believe their opinions are not widely supported, they tend to remain silent and refrain from expressing their views publicly. This silence, in turn, can create an illusion that the majority supports the prevailing ideology, even if it might not be the case. As a result, individuals who disagree with the ideology might feel isolated and discouraged from speaking out, contributing to the seeming growth and acceptance of the ideology.
I don't think people tolerate intolerance so much as they're scared to speak out.
So basically, they've done something to offend you, and you want to defederate from them because you don't agree with whatever they're doing or saying.
So much for freedom and no censorship. Go back to reddit if that's what you want.
More like they're deliberately and intentionally trying to cause harm to people, they literally have a community dedicated to transphobia calling transgender people groomers.
It's one thing to disagree with someone, it's another to make disgusting accusations based on a person's orientation/identity. They're literally trying to say that all LGBT people are pedophiles because they disagree. How do you think that is okay?
I just had a look at the main page, and saw a post with the line, "The lying cunts at shit Just Woke are trying to claim that we're Nazis because we fight against their far lefty woke ass shit about transgenderism and how it's used to groom and mutilate children", and another that says, "Reeeeeeee!! Don’t you understand that unless I read soft porn children’s novels to five year olds about the joys of anal sex, that trans kids will literally be genocided!!?! Reeeeee!!"
Yeah I'm comfortable with people not wanting to associate with an instance like that. You wanna be a part of it, go for it. Doesn't mean the rest of us need be exposed to that kind of ignorance, bigotry and hate.
Most people here do not want to associate with this kind of people. If you really believe in “free speech”, go run your own instance. Free speech is one thing, hate speech is another.
No the aim is to keep Bigots and Nazis out of Lemmy.world by cutting off the instance they're using to propagate their toxic shit to the rest of the Fediverse. Honestly you sound just as toxic as them, maybe you should go hang out on their instance and not spread your toxicity here.
I wonder if they realize how much of a self own it is for them to say that not tolerating racism or bigotry or Nazis or anti science bullshit makes something a "left wing braindead echo chamber".