George Washington University encampment...
George Washington University encampment...
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What about Atrocity Trump? They point at Biden, but never the disaster trump would ensure.
Biden is the one supporting slaughter right now, and Biden is the one with power to stop it.
What would protesting Trump do?
Trump tells Israel to "finish the job" in gaza,
https://apnews.com/article/trump-israel-gaza-netanyahu-biden-ba17bedaf2f1b5f2ea220828d0fba73b
You should try knowing what you're talking about some time
Read my comment very carefully. Where did I say "Trump would do less harm?" Exactly nowhere.
Protesting Trump for what he will probably do if he makes it to office rather than the sitting president actively supporting genocide is hilariously ineffective.
You should try knowing what you're talking about some time
It's implied in a two party system kiddo
No it isn't, lmao. Who the fuck protests someone who can't fix the problem at hand? Do you want to protest against Hitler for also being worse than Biden as Biden assists in slaughtering children?
"Kiddo," you're deeply unserious.
Honestly? It would keep him hopefully from having a close enough election to contest it, game it, and potentially evade punishment for the crimes he's actually on trial RIGHT NOW for committing. Then there is precedent for punishing a president and guess who can be next?
Biden does not sit on a button that says "lower gas prices" or "defund Israel" or "hold trump accountable" or any of a whole variety of things in the first place. Can he do more? Sure. Would I trash him because everybody has to do the exact right thing with the exact right issue every time or I'm going to take my ball and go home to let the other guy win and escape punishment for the first time ever? Fuck. No.
Get precedent for punishment, then punish them all.
The US by its own law must not send weapons to war criminals and actors preventing US humanitarian efforts Israel is doing both. All Biden has to do is uphold US law. Why are you letting him get away with the same shit that Trump did?
See last sentence of previous comment.
Nobody has to get away with anything, the only trick is not chasing every squirrel in the park to make sure nothing gets done.
Ensure he doesn't get into office and push Israel harder to annihilate every Gazan.
Israel is already absolutely blasting every man, woman, and child in Gaza, with no sign of stopping. Could Trump be worse? Sure. Is giving Biden a pass and falling in line with his genocide going to make things better? Absolutely the fuck not.
I didn't say anything about Biden, only that Trump getting into office would make make Israel feel emboldened to kill more children with Trump openly applauding and perhaps even supporting with American troops on the ground. Biden needs to change his view but we are protesting while standing on the lip of a maga volcano.
Biden is openly appluading it and sending American weapons. If you think Trump is bad, I agree! Biden needs to be worth voting for.
"Bidens at fault for his inaction" "I'm not at fault for my inaction"
What action can we take to make biden not support genocide?
I think Trump is the much much bigger threat. He supports the genocide in both Ukraine and Israel. At least Biden is vocally against the genocide in Israel. We just need to get Biden into office then work on getting aid to Gaza and a cease-fire along with continued support for Ukraine. Trump in office could mean the end of NATO and with that the proliferation of nuclear weapons among all the other NATO members now that their nuclear umbrella is gone. Everywhere could be like Gaza of Trump is allowed anywhere near the oval office. He is a risk not worth taking under any circumstances.
They already do.
You're going to have to give me some yoga tips. Your stretching is impressive.
You know who's currently president and is currently sending weapons to Israel right?
I'm so glad Trump is running because it means Biden can do literally anything and every single voter can just scream BUT TRUMP TOO and suddenly Joe is absolved.
You know who wants to be president and will do the same thing, right?
That's completely unrelated. Biden is the current president, and he must answer for his decisions.
If Biden is concerned he'll loose to Trump over this, THEN STOP FEEDING THE GENOCIDE. It's that simple.
Wouldn’t it be nice if trump answered for his.
You are entirely missing the point here. You seem so deluded by factionalism that you can’t see this as anything but a democrat vs Republican issue.
This is a HUMAN GODDAMN LIVES issue. A literal genocide is happening and you’re playing the whataboutism game. “Whataboutism” is used way too much as a phrase in discussions, but this is a textbook example of it.
“Biden is contributing to genocide.”
“But trump is a criminal.”
“Okay…but people are literally being slaughtered and starved on the US’s dime and the president is still voicing support in the face of the atrocities we are all witnessing.”
“But trump-“
Just stop. No one here likes trump. We understand stacking domestic chaos on top of this issue is no good. But we are faced with no good option right now. The entire argument for voting for democrats over republicans is usually “but we can push the democrats through shame to do what is right.” THAT IS WHAT THIS IS.
We’re not playing politics. We’re playing try to save some goddamn lives with civil disobedience.
It's not that "trump is a criminal" it's that https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-israel-gaza-finish-problem-rcna141905
It will continue/be worse under trump.
Like, it’s something we all understand. But that doesn’t absolve the Biden admin’s full-dive involvement. This administration is complicit in genocide.
That doesn’t mean another president wouldn’t be as well. The US as a country and entity is complicit. But that’s what we’re trying to change by calling out the weaker link—because the point isn’t playing politics. It’s stopping the genocide. What’s happening right now in Gaza is untenable. And Biden is supposed to be the better option—again, yes, we all understand trump would not be better. But that doesn’t change what’s happening. We need to be able to pressure our representatives, especially when they claim to be morally superior to the “other” party. And especially when they’re more likely to change. We have Biden over the barrel because it’s an election year, and he’s seeing a ton of pressure from people he needs the votes of. Hats leverage we don’t typically have. We need to use it. Also, it’s fuckin genocide. I don’t know how else to say it. And it needs to stop. This isn’t us claiming anything except we don’t want what’s happening to continue. We’re not discussing the election. This supersedes it.
This is what we need to do. Because, the point is stopping the genocide. Not playing politics. And that’s what you just can’t see past. Like I said, we voted for Biden knowing he was supposed to be the more morally sound option. And here he is participating in genocide. We are trying to push the president who is vulnerable on this issue to do the right thing. That’s what needs to happen. BECAUSE THERE IS A FUCKING GENOCIDE TAKING PLACE. That fact isn’t going away, no matter how much of a disaster trump would be. This president is vulnerable on the issue, and the point isn’t politics. It’s stopping a goddamn genocide.
What is your point you’re making here? Because you’re not saying anything anyone else doesn’t know. But that doesn’t we shouldn’t be skewering Biden for this. Because he holds the reins of power. This is what we should be doing, if not more.
I fully agree, he needs to be held to a higher standard. A lot of people are making it out to be that biden shouldn't be elected, so that "the dems learn". Also it seems biden is listening. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/biden-administration-pauses-one-ammunition-shipment-to-israel-reason-unclear/ar-BB1lRDdt
No, you’re still missing he point. The thread you’ve been involved in, this thread, has been “biden is complicit in genocide.” “Well trump is bad and would be worse.”
No one had said anything about the election when I jumped in except for you. But again, my point is this supersedes what’s happening in the election. You’re displaying factionalism. Democrat vs Republican is the arena you’re operating in.
There is a genocide happening. Full stop.
And it needs to end. That is where this conversation ends.
Saying, “well…but, the other candidate—“
No. This isn’t about candidates. This president is in office for almost another year. People are protesting what’s happening. The election only serves, in this situation, as leverage for us. Because this is bad timing for Biden because of the election. That’s its only involvement here. Except for your comments.
You can’t see past the poison that is the two party system to understand that it’s not even part of this discussion. Genocide. No. End it. That’s the conversation. And you keep bringing up a person not currently involved in it.
If that’s what the conversation I jumped into was, then this conversation and my point would be different. Check it out, I’ve made this point many times because I’ve seen this situation being leveraged to tilt the election away from Biden. BUT THAT IS A DIFFERENT DISCUSSION.
Making this conversation, where people are putting pressure on the president to save lives and stop a genocide, about biden’s opponent in the upcoming election is wrong. It’s a nuanced difference, but I can’t make it any more clear. You either get that or you don’t. And so far you don’t seem like you’re getting it.
Not missing the point. Yes he's complicit, never said he wasn't. I don't know why you think that that is what I think. Ignoring what can happen in November is short sighted. I'm not saying to stop putting pressure, hell they need to ramp it up. You either get that, or you don't, and so far it doesn't seem like you're getting it.
You make it sound like that's something you'd expect would happen out of his own volition?
Biden?
Do you know who's currently sending weapons to Israel?
Hint: it's not Biden.
What
???
What's up with liberals on lemmy telling blatant obvious lies? We both know he bypassed congress multiple times to send them weapons, who are you trying to convince here?
How is that relevant to this? Are people not allowed to protest now because "other guy would be worse"? That's an actual authoritarian tactic.
This isn't saying "Trump would be better". This is saying "Biden supporting a genocide is unacceptable".
Woaah. Hold up there cowboy. Are you suggesting we hold politicians responsible for their policy?
It's very counterproductive given the two party system, yes. Especially when you consider Congress is restricting a lot of what he can do, he does not have the power to just cut off any foreign power he wants
Our well-meaning but powerless leader, their iron-handed despotic dictator, etc etc etc
Our profitable and innovative medical industrial complex, their ineffective and authoritarian free healthcare, etc
Yeah, we should all pretend everything's fine so that after the election happens we can keep sending bombs to do genocide.
I personally fully agree with the image created by the protestors AND plan on voting for Biden.
You'll vote for him but do nothing to help him win
Not quite. I will criticize him ruthlessly while in the same breath acknowledging that he is the best realistic option we have and stating others should also vote for him. I know the masses are dumb and easily swayed, but staying silent isn't something I am morally OK with. What I am doing is the compromise I have made with myself that best takes all of my personal beliefs and ethics into account.
"You should vote for a person enabling genocide because the other candidate hypothetically would have done worse in an alternate reality, maybe." Real high iq take there.
Rambling idiot not in power rambles. What a great rebuttal.
Rambling idiot - who will get in if biden isn't elected - says what he will support.
Dude says lots of things. His actual track record is not warlike and his inlaws, grandkids are Jewish.
He has indirectly he's made it so much worse. What does his family being Jewish have anything to do with anything?
My best friend is black, I can't be racist
Whataboutism
Whataboutism is an appeal to hypocrisy. We are facing a general election, talking about the opposing candidate is necessary.
So if two candidates are in direct competition, it's fair to respond to criticism of one by bringing up problems with the other.
Does this logic also hold if you replace the word "candidate" with "country?"
Yeah, because what I imagine will happen is far more important than what is happening!