Is PeerTube dead or is discoverability bad?
Is PeerTube dead or is discoverability bad?
I saw a few videos shared on PeerTube recently, and created an account on an instance. However, unlike Mastodon and Lemmy I'm struggling to discover channels to subscribe to. When I use the search functions on my instance, most results are either interesting channels which haven't been updated in years, or random foreign language TV shows and episodes.
Just for example, if I'm trying to find videos on "Gaming" on one of the largest instances, the most recent video is over 1 year ago: https://tilvids.com/search?categoryOneOf=7
Is discoverability on PeerTube bad, or are there barely any active channels?
Edit: BTW one very active creator on PeerTube is https://tilvids.com/c/thelinuxexperiment_channel/videos and his videos are excellent. But can there really only be a handful of active creators to follow on the whole platform?
It's both horrible discovery and a limited number of creators.
But, for discoverability, https://sepiasearch.org/ might help you find things to watch, since it's the only good multi-server search I've seen. (And run by the peertube devs.)
I say this everytime someone talks about peertube. You should not need to leave the website to use the website. If I search "crazy guy uses rake to play football", and it's not in the results page, I'm not going to go to ANOTHER website, to search THIS website, for a guy who doesn't understand how to play sports.
Yeah, I agree.
When it comes to building a fediverse service there's a really delicate balance to find with making it unambiguous you're engaging with multiple services, vs creating a singular and cohesive enough user experience, and it seems like the peertube devs just learn reaaally far towards the former at the expense of the latter.
Its a bit frustrating.
Edit: I learned from another user on this thread that sepia search can be enabled by an instance as their search functionality. That definitely helps
I completely agree.
Normally, you wouldn't have to do this. The problem is that Peertube devs made the HORRIBLE decision to make federating "opt-in" only. This means most content isn't available on most instances. It's a snowball effect where most owners make the decision without thinking to have some mystical barrier to enter their esteemed federation.
They don't understand that most users don't give a shit about "proving" themselves to enter some random person's instance. (and rightfully so)
Peertube made a lot of good choices, but a lot of bad ones too by the censorship/walled garden crowd.
Hopefully someone with more resources than me can run an instance that fills this void: just let people upload and interact like youtube back in the early 2000s.
It's both horrible discovery and a limited number of creators.
100%. I created my own instance and set it to auto-follow other instances. There's like 975 or something and still not really much interesting. Can confirm TILVids also denied my federation request.
I'm doing my part by uploading my own videos 🙂
If I set it the discovery to "trending" the top video is 2 years old 🤷
Sort by "hot". And also, check this list out for content: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15810205
Also also, you can still follow channels on tilvids.com, from your own instance, by following the channel's handle.
Sepia Search is something that's also build into PeerTube, if the admin have enabled Global Search. Sepia Search uses this list of instances: https://instances.joinpeertube.org/instances
The same can be enabled in PeerTube. You can see here, that I have it enabled on my instance:
I'm so glad you pointed this out. I did not have this enabled on mine and I forgot about this option completely. I just enabled it.
Ah cool. I never noticed that option, but that certainly improves things.
That should probably either be default or a thing asked on setup since I'd wager most people probably actually do want that.
i found sepia search to be very good! i noticed the ios peertube app seems to have integrated it so a lot more videos are discoverable. @[email protected]
The discoverability is incredibly bad. Peertube has a ton of videos and more servers than lemmy by a long shot iirc. The problem is that the „frontend“ has seen no love like ever. There recently came an app which is nice but otherwise, its very underloved.
Feel free to voice your concerns in [email protected] for example. The devs should be available through the fedi somewhere.
You should go here https://ideas.joinpeertube.org/ or here https://github.com/Chocobozzz/PeerTube to raise concerns.
Thank you very much! I love the cooperation in the fedi.
Is there a non ml community? I try to avoid the "genocide is ok when China does it" instances
Yes someone suggested [email protected] and world seems to have one as well.
The frontend is nice, I actually enjoy it. Lots of functionality and fairly easy to navigate.
The problem is the culture around peertube instance: most owners are copying each other by not federating or allowing users to easily upload videos.
Essentially, most of the admins are afraid to actually host a video platform so they do anything in their power to prevent others from using it.
Both.
Peertube made this asinine decision to make federating opt-in, so most instances are just places where the owner can jerk themselves off for excluding everything.
Seems difficult to build it as a social media if it's inherently unsocial.
Who said YOU could say words???
revokes your right to comment
We'll be having none of that interaction, and social stuff here!!!!
.......why isn't peertube taking off???
(/joke)
It's not unsocial. It's just not mirroring multi-gigabyte files by default. It's perfectly social if you use the website.
Everyone has to stop conflating the technology with the network. Lemmy is a website engine. PeerTube is a website engine. The ability to mirror content is not inherent to running a Lemmy- or PeerTube-based website. The network is not the primary object here.
It is a construct that arrises from content-mirroring.
Remember, federation is copying, not creating some kind of remote view. If you're federating videos, you're letting other websites consume terabytes of your storage space amd bandwidth.
Yes and no.
By default anyone can follow your instance.
If you want your instance to follow others, you either have to type them in manually or use “auto-follow”, which needs to be enabled manually.
I have a Peertube server, and I've requested to follow tilvids, and they denied my request, and they also do not follow my Peertube server. I think one issue with tilvids may be that they essentially choose not to federate, and therefore you won't find much because of this.
I just searched for "Gaming" on my Peertube server and I seem to get a non-ending list of servers. Unfortunately, one column wide, but a lot. When I search for King's Quest, I am also getting a seemingly unending stream of videos.
I follow every Peertube server I can that is clearly not fascist, primarily NSFW, NSFL, etc.
Maybe you just need to find a server that is more federated with other Peertube servers.
This is the issue with federated youtube. It should ALL be federated, and all searchable, mandatory.
Now if I the user decide I don't want to see an instance/video/creator, I should have two options.
Block - Used for when content offends you. It has zero place being in your feed.
Not Interested - Used when content isn't offensive per se, but you really don't care about it either. It's not completely blocked from your feed, but it's certainly not getting first dibs to show up from now on.
This leaves one thing that some may feel is an issue. Lets say there were a small dicked loser who did nazi salutes in public, and wanted to upload hateful content. Lets give him a random name for the sake of simplicity. Let's call him.....Elon. Hypothetical name.
So lets say small dicked Elon, starts uploading hateful content. On youtube you would report him. On peertube, since he owns the hosted server, you'd be reporting him to himself. Which is as you can imagine, useless.
So from here, you block them, and then you never have to see their hateful content ever again.
Because their rise, only comes from people giving these people attention.
Yes!
I see two possible ways for it to succeed:
-
Federate by default, defederate if you have to. This is how Lemmy mostly seems to work; I proposed a policy for defederation for sh.itjust.works that has been used, we will federate with you unless you start spamming or hosting illegal porn or spewing hate speech or that kind of shit, then we'll defederate. That has to happen at the instance level; if example.lol is generally fine but there's one account there that's a nuisance that's what the block button is for, but lolita.rape gets defederated (and reported to the FBI).
-
Apply and join model. Have a coalition of instances that agree to mutually uphold certain moderation practices (no hate speech, no kid fucking, goat or human, no human trafficking, etc) and then they federate with each other, eventually forming a large and wholesome community.
Nobody federates and it's a bunch of independent nothings won't work. Youtubers will use it as a backup service, a couple of the real paranoid Linux types will host their videos there that someone might even watch, and half the instances will be places you go when you've been kicked off of Youtube.
-
what's the best peertube instance to upload gaming videos to? I might upload some and see how it goes
edit: I think I'm gonna go with spectra, but omg this is annoying:
Channel identifier cannot be the same as your account name. You can click on the first step to update your account name.
I get it, they're separate actors, but still annoying. Can people find my channel by either name? Edit2: yes they can, all the user's channels are listed on the user profile, which maybe makes it worth the signup annoyance
Take a look here for an instance: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15816115 And take a look here, under gaming, which instances they use: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15810205
As someone who watches gaming footage on PeerTube, I've mostly interacted with single creator instances -- i.e. either the creator themselves is self-hosting it or it's run by a fan as a non-YT backup of their Twitch/Owncast/whatever VODs. Those instances generally do not allow anyone else to upload.
Discoverability sucks but the way I've found them is by using SepiaSearch and looking for specific words from game titles. I imagine the way most other people find them is that they already know the content creator from Twitch and want to find an old VOD that isn't archived on YT (e.g. because of YT's bullshit copyright system) -- but that's just a guess.
Would that mean you need an account name to be Die4Ever and your channel identifier might be Die4Ever_Games?
That would actually solve a problem I had on Youtube, where, I'll use Linus Media Group as an example, Tech Linked and Mac Address were different unrelated Youtube channels. Youtube has no concept of "Shows"
Haha, good luck.
Tilvids.com don't want to allow following or follow anyone themselves. That's a policy they have had for a long time. However... Since Tilvids is on this list: https://instances.joinpeertube.org/instances?search=tilvids, they are part of the Global Search Index. So you can get videos from tilvids in your search results, if you instance has enabled Global Search.
Also, you, as an instance owner, can follow channels on tilvids, by using their channel handles.
Fell free to send federation request :) https://peer.madiator.cloud
Just horrible discovery leading creators to abandon the platform.
Yeah, that must be it. It's a real shame because the core technology seems to be solid. Streaming 1080p videos from other instances just works. But finding channels to follow seems impossible.
I had the exact same experience including the videos you linked to. There was nothing to be found.
Which is silly because most instances will auto mirror your YouTube channel. Literally takes no effort to post to both.
I would not recommend using tilvids.com. They do not federate with anyone and do not have global search enabled, which means search only shows videos from tilvids.com. It is however, possible to follow channels from tilvids.com from other platforms (instances).
Simply copy the link from tilvids.com and paste it into the search bar of an instance that has global search enabled.
Platforms can also follow channels directly from tilvids and the videos will show up on said platform.
Discoverability can be a bit finicky on PeerTube. Especially if you don't know how to fine tune the filters.
If you take a look at this list: https://peertube.wtf/home and this one https://lemmy.wtf/post/15810205, you'll see that there's plenty of content creators to follow. I discover new ones almost every day.
There really isn't any other big content creators on PeerTube, other than The Linux Experiment, but if you wanna see your favorite creator on PeerTube, ask them.
If you are looking for a platform (instance) to register on, I recommend looking at this list: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15816115
I just rejoined PeerTube after I had a quick look years ago, and it's gotten way better since then, actually. I found out Space Quest Historian is on it, too!
But yeah, discoverability isn't good. Lack of an algorithm also makes bingewatching impossible - for better and worse, I guess.
As you linked them, I'd also recommend peertube.wtf - they even reacted very quickly when I reported a transphobic german conspiracy channel/server.
Simply copy the link from tilvids.com
...what link?
The link of the channel or the channel handle.
Veronica explains is one channel I always enjoys (if you like Linux).
She is on her own instance now
In that case issue is some instances do not allow global search and that's why search will limit to only channels you follow and your instance.
It's really just missing a great instance. Most of them look really shady or are not accepting new users.
There are no great instances because all federation is opt-in.
There's also no general, standard "Peertube affiliated" instance that tries to federate with as many others as possible.
I think there were just some very poor design decisions made for the platform by people who don't know what they're doing.
Ex: Blurring sensitive videos blurs the title as well, without the option to change it.
The community doesn't help because most instances have "request an account" nonsense or literally don't allow users to upload videos.
I re-iterate my previous comment: "most instances are just places where the owner can jerk themselves off for excluding everything."
There will be great peertube instances, but the culture needs to change first.
That said, check out https://dalek.zone/. It's one of the few peertube instances I've come across that legitimately seems interested in making it a viable platform. Registrations and uploading new videos don't require approval, and it federates with way more instances than average.
Check out the pinned posts here: [email protected] for info on instances that fits your needs.
You can mouse over the blurred title and see what it is.
Most established hosters would be fearful to run an instance of peertube. Costs could balloon out of nowhere and would only increase with time. There is no way donations would keep up with costs, and charging to watch or a subscription would never take off.
Check the out the pinned post here about instances: [email protected]
I created [email protected] in case anyone finds channels, videos, ect that they like.
We can help with the discovery!
Check out the pinned posts here: [email protected]
Thanks, I tried to add as much as I could from that community. Also added it in the sidebar!
Its growing like crazy. Try the app they just released. It uses some search that works better than instance search
It uses sepia search to search all instances that have opted into being searched.
that's the chicken and egg problem of any social network: people don't want to go to a social network with only a few number of content creators and content creators don't want to spend their time managing another platform for only a few number of viewer... social networks needs people to be alive and so if you are interested in Peertube, it will be hard at first but use it so, just like voting system where every vote count, the platform will have one more user and if other people do the same, the platform will grow and if it grow enough it will start to attract bigger content creator, etc...
It's in people hand to break the cycle and makes that Youtube alternative a viable alternative.
I'm a peertube instance admin for years now and closed my google/youtube account 10 years ago, so I'm doing my part to break it.
Check out the two pinned posts here: [email protected]
I just checked that out and am Fry ng to make a decision but am confused about storage space for users. What do people use peertube storage space for and/or why might I want it?
I couldn't even get an account on the instance I most wanted because they seem to only give accounts to creators. So now I cannot follow anyone on that instance, or like their videos, or comment. So I have to figure out what other instance I can get an account on and follow from there, hoping they federated with each other.
they seem to only give accounts to creators
Yea this is a bit silly. It seems like they manually approve user accounts because they need to be careful with the uploads using up their storage. But a way better solution would be to approve users more liberally, and user accounts would be created without a channel so they cannot upload anything, and creating channels needs to be approved. That way people can freely make user accounts for browsing/following, and the admins can still restrict spam channels from being created and uploading videos.
they seem to only give accounts to creators
That doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I'll get in trouble for saying it, but I think that PeerTube is for video channels what Lemmy should be for communities. It should be that if you want to start or moderate a community, then you sign up to Lemmy, but if you just want to interact with one, you use a user account provided by software that's fully geared up around users (e.g. Mastodon).
Ignoring for the moment that Lemmy's federation model hasn't been widely adopted, and that comments from Mastodon that appear in Lemmy often have annoying Hashtag / Mention spam, my fantasy version of a post in a Lemmy community would look something like https://tilvids.com/w/wjTD7fp9qy4KmTkBdSoWyc, which was created by a PeerTube user, but has been commented on and voted for by users from Mastodon, Sharkey, PieFed, other PeerTube instances, and MBIN.
Amongst those subscribers, commenters, and voters should be Lemmy users, of course. In this thread, it feels like PeerTube is being criticised by people who want to use it in a way that it's not designed for, because they can't interact with it from their Lemmy account. If inter-op was better, there'd be no need to create a new account anywhere, and it would have a network effect - the channels that people are trying to discover would already have been brought in by other users, and findable through a conventional Lemmy search. Also, the votes and comments from Lemmy users that are currently going to whoever takes a PeerTube video and posts it in the likes of [email protected], would instead be going to original creator. This would also aid discovery (since people would be more likely to see the channel in 'all'), and might have also some incentivising influence on the creator.
Basically, I blame Lemmy.
Which instance was that? Have a look at this list: https://lemmy.wtf/post/15816115
Even if the instance does not federate with the instance you wanted, you can still type in the link of the channel in the other instance's search bar.
Important: you do not need to have an account on a peertube instance. You can follow from nearly (iirc) any fedi instance. I have successfully done so from mastodon and I have heard lemmy should work, not sure though. You just copy the address of the channel you want to follow from the browser and paste it in your search bar on mastodon.
Yeah the search is the worst part. As others have said the technology is there, we just need a better search.
The other issue is Lemmy (and perhaps other platforms) has issues with Peertube channels. I can't direct link Peertube for activityhub posts. Lemmy is a no go. [email protected] Piefed for example works: https://piefed.social/c/[email protected]
I host one and don't plan on taking it down anytime soon! If anyone likes dog videos: @[email protected]
He's a good boy.
Nice channel, I've just added it to https://piefed.social/topic/wholesome to help people find it.
Excellent. I hope we will all enjoy it. Teddy is a good boy :)
Thanks!!
I think peer tube federation is opt in not opt out like most other services.
The PeerTube admin chooses which other platforms they follow. They can also control who can follow them.
Try the app, it's a little better
Not if you want to subscribe to a channel, or interact with videos in any way.
Yeah it is a major work in progress but discoverability is better and you can use Sepia search from within it.
i can’t easily upload from my ipad which is my main video creation device.
i just post to my personal goto social instance without issue.