Trans men enter Miss Italy contest to protest anti-trans ‘women from birth’ rule
Trans men enter Miss Italy contest to protest anti-trans ‘women from birth’ rule
hah, this one is funny!
Also, echoing @[email protected]'s comment below (unfortunately you can't sticky comments on lemmy): comments that express hate towards any group are a violation of instance guidelines. BE NICE.
This happens when transphobes forgets that trans men exists lol.
I'd love to
watchforcefeed them a plate of their, "you will always be a woman" words.They exist? Thought they were a fairytale
I know three.
In fact, come to think of it, I only know two trans women, so I know more trans men than trans women.
Fairy*
Mod here. Just want to openly and unequivocally state... I will remove your comment if you're transphobic. I will refer to trans people to let me know if you are being transphobic. I will ban you if you make an egregiously off colour comment. and I will take pleasure in doing this. Fuck your transphobic bullshit, go somewhere else. Nobody wants you here.
Cis guy here. Based mod.
Fucking A right. n
You are amazing, brave people and deserve a place in society where you are loved . M
👍
Thank you so much!
God bless it I fucking love lemmy! 😄
Uhhh???? Based??????????
Thank you for not being reddit.
Lol
What a hero
Bruh, just do your job/hobby. Mods acting high and mighty is a big part of what made reddit so toxic.
I mean... it's supposed to be a 'beauty contest' so why shouldn't they compete?
Not that I don't think the entire concept of a competition over beauty is stupid, but they exist, so why not just see who wins?
These contests are full of ideology, so a trans person has a significant advantage over the others. There aren’t enough heartwarming and sob stories in the world to compensate for that.
On the other hand, I don’t really care if those kind of competitions are unfair. If they help trans people convey a message, that’s probably the best thing that can come out of them.
Ah yes, the competitions currently banning trans women definitely have a positive bias towards them.
I think it would have been fair to have a rule saying "no surgical modifications"... because doing things like facelift, nose-job, breast/buttox implants, cheek lifts, wrinkle removal, etc, are obviously unfair advantages (in a beauty contest) for those who have the money pay for it; and having a generic blanket rule like that would have accomplished the same thing they were trying to accomplish without being so blatantly transphobic... so a rule like what they have only proves that they are both despicable AND dumb. The entire notion of beauty pageants is outdated and stupid if you ask me.
Lol, you implement that and basically all beauty pageants stop existing. Which would be a good thing, mind you. But I've never met a pageant contestant in my life that isn't … let's say … heavily enhanced by medical procedures.
which would be a good thing
Based
I think it would have been fair to have a rule saying “no surgical modifications”…
How are you intending to prove that that? Only the bad surgery makes itself obvious.
Like any kind of contest, finding rules violations is hard and not foolproof. It's like sports that forbid using steroids - competitors do regularly take those substances while training, then quit taking them for competition and go uncaught. Competitors who are discovered later to have been violating rules are stripped of titles.
That said, I don't think it's a very controversial concept that a beauty pageant shouldn't be a contest about who could afford the best surgeons. Well - as I said earlier I think beauty pageants are absurd to begin with, but if they have to exist I don't think it should be a contest between surgeons.
So, no contestants who have had their wisdom teeth removed? No one allowed who has had a C-section? No cancer patients who have had biopsies done?
Elia Bonci, who also spoke to la Repubblica, said: “I took courage, used my deadname and signed up for Miss Italy because fighting transphobia is intersectional and even though I’m not a trans woman, I’ve decided to fight for their rights.”
much respect to all that followed!
I'm confused. If they are using a dead name how are they not trans?
Think the others were missing the point - they are trans men. Their dead name is their dead female name.
The ruling was to prevent trans women from competing, so while they can't stand for trans women, they'll stand for all trans.
For context, Miss Italia is no longer broadcasted on important tv channels and almost no one watches or care about who wins now. Years ago (10?) it was a big thing and winners would make commercials and do movies/series and be remembered for life. But it’s too an old school concept now
Anyway, I love this turn of events
Source: Italian
I'm glad to hear Italy is moving past its Berlusconi era.
This is deliciously rich. They really painted themselves into a corner with that one!
I hope he wins. That'd be really funny.
Imagine a buff, bearded person that identifies as male wins in a contest that measures female beauty
He has to come out in slacks, his special talent should be mowing the lawn. Tuxedo print t shirt for evening gown. REPRESENT!
YES. This is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying!!! Like honestly, as a cis woman from Italy I’m so embarrassed by this nonsense. Like, cutting trans women out of the competition at this moment just means people are recognizing that trans women are “unfairly” more good looking than cis women. Which, personally, is true in my case but you don’t see me bitching about it. Fuck yeah trans dudes, trans chicks and non-binary buddies.
Wait what? I get why someone would forbid trans women from participating in female sports events, but why TF can't they go to beauty contests?
Because excluding trans women from sports was never actually about fairness. It's about normalizing excluding trans people from aspects of public life.
Ok, hold on, why would you forbid trans women from competing? Because of “unfair advantages”? First off, trans women who completed their transition don’t have a male body. They have a female body. And some athletes are naturally better at some sports than others. Like, shorter basketball players are naturally disadvantaged at basket, which is why they need to train twice as hard as taller players or switch to another sport. Also, every whiny white woman complaining about trans women doing better than them always forgets to mention the athletes winning are still the cis ones, which destroys the idea that trans women have an advantage.
The point never held up either in sports nor anywhere else. And it was never about sports anyway.
Clever way of protesting it.
Agree. They can't reject them without exposing their transphobia
Absolute chads. I'm curious what kind of response this is going to get.
"You're not beautiful enough for a contest about female beauty with your male presentation, therefore we reject your application"
Cold and passive-agressive, just like an actual organisation would answer
This is fantastic, while having them obviously in drag is delicious, it would be even more stark if some of them present as traditional male too and really bring the point home.
Wait, they have to tell the organizers such sensible details?
Are they required to be virgins too?
You're thinking of Miss Vatican.
Beauty Pageants are uglyphobic.
Bodybuilding competitions are fatphobic
This is a pretty awesome way to protest and show solidarity. These trans men are ballsy as fuck and I salute them.
I'd be more interested in protesting the fact that it's now legal to grope women in Italy.
The landmark decision involved a school janitor who jammed his hand into a 17 year old girl's panties.
Pick the hill you want to die on.
He is like: "I used the transphobia to destroy the transphobia"
So I thought I would look at the modlog in this thread
A comment was removed starting with
Not really seeing [...]
Heavily downvoted sure, but what rule is it breaking?
They were banned for transphobia. Finish that comment. Don't cherry pick their words. Transphobia and bigotry are against the rules here. As a cis person, I don't get to decide what is transphobic; trans people do.
I think the issue is that there is no such thing as a "biological woman". Manhood/womanhood is an issue of gender, not sex, and gender is something that we collectively made up whose meaning varies from person to person and from culture to culture. The only person who is capable of saying "Person McFaceface is/is not a woman" is Person McFaceface.
Even if we were to interpret their comment to mean "sex", that isn't a simple binary yes/no kind of question. There is no single trait that determines maleness or femaleness, and lots of people have traits indicative of both sexes or of neither sex (or they were born that way then surgically altered shortly after birth), and sometimes those traits are so hidden and so internal that the person themself doesn't know about it.
Let's goooo guys! top spot is ours
Isn't this malicious non-compliance?
No, because trans men are "biologically women" and are thus specifically allowed by this approach. It's the same kind of conflation that causes the bathroom issues. People only seem to understand that trans women exist and think they are the same as trans men. Reminding people that trans men exist hopefully gets peoples brains working.
It eould be a Interesting Idea to make a Trans-Fenake Fashion Show as Protest.
What is protest part? Not sure it is malicious compliance either because contestant was not rebirthed as woman. Not that it's possible unless you are buddhist.
Trans Europe Express
Ok sure. But it's not really an effective protest as they're fulfilling the requirement to enter the competition. Because the competition is steered by judges they will simply eliminate the trans men in the first round.
The rule is there to make sure the judges are not sexually aroused when they see a trans woman.
A greater means of protest would be if the non-trans competitors all quit the pageant. But their look is their only talent, so they won't.
Has anyone ever seen a "woman from birth"? Like a whole-ass adult woman popping out of somebody not appreciably larger than her? Ready for a beauty pageant at zero minutes old?
Completely independent of gender, people should know that "women" are adults and have zero overlap with "children" or especially "newborn infants".
Or is this a bad translation from the Italian?
Perhaps it should say "female from birth". But anyone with basic reading comprehension would understand this. Probably you know this and are being unnecessarily pedantic/argumentative.
Men don't understand no, I've heard this before...
In what way? I don't understand how that pertains to this.
I hope this is a joke?
