Boomers say that because historically, with increasing age people usually also managed to have some things they might want to conserve, like a home and some financial assets to cover their retirement. I’m in my mid thirties and the only feasible way for me to ever own a home is inheriting one. My retirement plan is to die in the revolution. I have nothing to be conservative about
I’m in my 30s and fortunate to have a house, but as I age I become more liberal.
I grew up with conservative parents and mostly conservative extended family as well. It wasn’t until I was older and in college that I started to become liberal. Before that I considered myself a Libertarian because I hated the two-party system and didn’t identify closely with any other parties.
I can’t imagine anyone that isn’t in the the top 1% that considers themselves conservative unless it’s based purely on hate or ignorance.
Generally, what it used to be is that people got more liberal as they got older, but society became more liberal faster.
Nowadays, millennials are getting older and mostly keeping up with liberal trends because we have so little invested in the status quo to slow us down from changing with the times. Amongst other factors.
I’m 31, I was most conservative in my teens when I was in a private Christian high school in the south. Then I went to college, worked at a jail, went to law school, and in the process learned about the world and the people in it.
I am still astonished at the people who have done similar things and still don’t have an ounce of compassion for the poor and struggling. Conservative values only make sense when your sense of self only encompasses you, your family, and your religion. Once you realize that you are a part of something bigger, and the gay Hindu man and the black Muslim woman has the same consciousness and feelings as you it’s a lot harder to think of them as enemies or pitiful souls who need to be saved.
When you realize that people are people, and we are all the same, but for our circumstances, then it’s impossible to be conservative.
I think some people have trouble conceptualizing those around them as human. From what I can tell it's not intentional cruelty, at least at first, they just struggle to conceptualize and understand the idea that all of the people around them have just as dynamic and complex inner worlds as they do. When it's a struggle to make that connection, it's easy to go through life ignoring the plight of those around you, disregarding them with the same ease most people dismiss a warning on a computer.
As someone formerly in the same boat, I think belief in the Abrahamic religions makes it hard to identify with the plights of others, because if you believe in a just, loving god, then "those people" have the religion and hardships that they do for a reason (and the reason is usually either "it's part of God's plan" or "they made bad decisions").
When you base your entire worldview on a faulty premise, you can use sound logic to get all the way to libertarianism without a problem. Once I reexamined and discarded my belief in the Christian god, it was like flipping a switch; I went from douchey religious Libertarian to bleeding-heart socialist almost literally overnight.
I agree, and I honestly think its the push for individualism over community that causes people to unknowingly become solipsistic like this. I think a lot of people don't even realize how much trouble they have conceptualizing those around them as human, let alone having empathy for them
I'm skeptical that many conservatives have dynamic and complex inner worlds ... I don't see much evidence that they think much about anything, but rather offload as much as possible onto others. My mother, as she gets older, appears to actively avoid thinking for herself and has begun the decline into right-wing thinking. She likes the Daily Mail to do her thinking for her.
Yeah, imagine church on Sunday morning, Sunday evening, Wednesday night in addition to once a week chapel, a mandatory Bible class, and most of the other curriculum incorporating biblical teachings (Christian books in literature, young earth creationism, etc) Oh and the church is Southern Baptist and the school is non-denominational (which means they can’t teach conflicting dogmas or the parents will pull their kids out.) So there is no church history other than the creation of protestantism, but we had Catholics so that couldn’t go into detail either.
On the positive side, we had small classes and I got educated enough to get into undergrad and go on to get my JD.
I really have to thank the science educators on YouTube and similar for filling in the gaps of grade school level biology and history that I missed out on. And undergrad for breaking my dogmatic ideologies.
I’m really glad to see the current wave of deconstruction, it seems a lot healthier than the militant atheism that was popular when I was deconverting.
All it needs is a little self reflection on your actions in the current world.
If you never question yourself and always assume your choices will lead you forward, you will never get even a hint of what’s realistic and what’s just egotistic bs.
Past generations saw some level of stability by their 40s and felt that something worked.
Ain't nothing worked for any of us and those people who did turn conservative in their 40s are now 80 and voting to literally murder gay and trans folk.
Anyone who believes this is just as deranged as the Q people lmao. What an outright fabrication of anything resembling the truth. Nobody on either side of the spectrum, be it left or right, are voting to murder anyone. Maybe take a peak outside your Reddited echo chamber because the real world has much more nuance than it’s allowing you to see.
I'm in a demographic that's probably not common on this site. I work a physical, traditionally "blue collar" job. It's the kind that attracts the "male with no college education, conservative politics" -- you know the type.
The thing is, I am also a white guy that looks and sounds like them. I own guns, I'm an outdoorsman, I can crack off-color jokes with the best of them. They assume I'm "one of them" and openly share shit with me they'd never say out in the open.
I hear Qanon adjacent crap far more than I care too. A current favorite of theirs is the "Trans people and drag queens are grooming kids!" A disturbing number of them frequently speak in support of violence against or even the murder of LGBTQ/leftist/woke people. Hell, listening to them talk I'd expect a few of them would probably do it themselves if they thought they could get away with it. This is the sort that got excited when they heard there was a shooting at a Pride (unrelated to Pride it turned out) event near our town.
So you're right: nobody is voting to murder anyone ... yet. But the aforementioned exist and vote for those that absolutely would if they could. That happily support policies pushing society in that direction, and would be thrilled if murder of their political "enemies" were a reality.
On point, but just a slight clarification on point B. They enjoy watching others suffer even when they don't gain, and often even if they will be hurt too. Conservatives are all about pyrrhic victorories. There's an expression I've always remembered: a conservative will shit their own pants if their enemies have to smell it.
They see the suffering of others as it's own victory out of a combination of zero sum mindset, that the pie cannot grow and that others have to lose for anyone to win, and schadenfreude, a German term that really should but doesn't have an English version as it's one of the darkest traits of the human condition and American culture gets drunk on it more than most.
The majority of folks 30-60 can look at their current lives. I love the older ones who are conservative except when it comes to social security and medicare.
Idk, I was a conservative up until I was 19 and moved to Philadelphia. I still don’t really know if I’m liberal but I’m registered as a democrat. After Roe vs. Wade I found that I just don’t really care that much anymore about pretending I was a conservative because I care about having “more money in our economy.” Because let’s face it I don’t know jack shit about our economy
I would give this more upvotes, because I’m feeling exactly this.
“Just wait till you’re my age…” is the dumbest bs I will ever hear from older people. As if everyone will inevitably turn into an old, bitter, narrow minded, conservative person some day.
Was raised on Rush Limbaugh starting in the 5th grade, did the edgy Libertarian thing and now ... now Bernie Sanders is like the only guy in the country that makes any sense. And now I get to argue with most of my family and many of my friends or just never talk politics or walk away completely. And I get to reckon with all the harm I've caused.
Know what's fun? Constantly realizing what a piece of shit you've been. Feeling incredibly stupid for not realizing it sooner. Wondering how you can possibly atone.
Hey, as a minority I just wanted to tell you thank you. You may feel like shit when you think of the person you used to be, but I appreciate you for becoming the person you are now. Your only "atonement" is to just keep truckin, friend. Keep working on being the person you want to be
I'm EXACTLY the same. You don't need to atone. I own up to my mistakes. I admit I was wrong. People see it as character development, so don't be ashamed of your story. Own that shit! You have lived and grown! That's very good thing.
I was born in 1991 and I've noticed a trend amongst people my age reaching their 30s which I call "the middle generation conundrum"
Basically, most of us grew on our parents belief that hard work meant a good life.
But as time passed we started to notice a couple of things:
Our parent's way became more and more out of reach, even with the same involvement in our work. No more traditional way of life on a single salary, even starting out in the middle class
We tend to feel closer to the next generation's way of life which is "work to live" and not "live to work"
We are also feeding on the general nihilism towards our planet's future which is making some of us less likely to aim for the traditional "family lifestyle"
The result is that whereas me and my friends would have tended to move right on the political spectrum, the majority of us are actually moving far left as we age.
Last (French) presidential elections, I actually couldn't believe how many people around me voted left. It would have been unthinkable a couple of years before
In my case it has been the exact opposite tbh. The more I have to deal with reality there more I wander to the left. I’m kinda ashamed for my edgy centrist years as a teenager. Fuck that guy.
Yeah overall I have become more liberal. I would still say im a bit left of center but of course by modern skewed standards that makes me way liberal. I have seen many of my peers though fall to nutter right levels.
As a Millennial, the only thing I want from the younger generations is to see them restore my faith in humanity. We're so tired, but we won't stop fighting. Attrition is on our side and it will be on your's too. Chin up.
I understand that feeling, and the key is to find a healthy outlet for it. I've discovered embarrassing them by intentionally misusing their slang is hilarious.
Last week I pretended to confuse bussy (I pronounced it "Bus E") for bussin'. When I was informed I was using it wrong I demanded they explain what bussy means.
Actually I went from moderate liberal to pinko-tree-hugging-anarchist-commie-radical thing.
Some folks did the math
For me, it was watching shit go down in Ferguson 2014 and then realizing this what America looks like a bit too often. Next thing I knew, I was outraged and reading Das Kapital and singing glorious Bolshevik anthems.
That always pissed me off. They were basically telling me "You're going to become a selfish fuckwad by the time you're my age. You'll stop caring about civil rights. You'll stop caring about the environment." Etc.
Similar for me. I was told this repeatedly when I was younger, but all I heard was "If you get rich and successful then the wealth will corrupt your values". I'd like to think I could keep my values if I became wealthy, because I know what it's like to be homeless and hungry. But money does change people.
In my experience in Korea, it's the opposite. The people who grew up with real hardship are usually the first to hoard any and all wealth that comes their way.
My mother was a hippy before I was born, marched in every march going when I was a kid. Anti war, greenpeace, Land Rights the works. The last thing she did on her drive to the hospital for what would turn out to be her last time, was post in her postal vote for gay marriage rights. She was 74 years old. You don't get more conservative as you get older unless you choose to.
This will never stop being weird to me, or at least unfamiliar.
Reason; I was raised by boomers, but they were legitimate 1967 Haight-Ashbury hippies (actually my dad derosed out of Vietnam in '67, so he wasn't in SF until '68, but leave us not quibble) who even now, though both my parents are dead, are still far to the left of me, and I'm basically a Bernie-style democratic socialist.
To put in perspective, while my parents weren't actually part of the SLA, they personally knew and were friendly with some of the most notorious of the lot, though they had parted ways by the time the SLA started to get seriously crazy.
All of which is just to say that growing up with Boomer parents in NorCal was a very different experience for a lot of gen Xers like myself.
Keep drifting left and I've gotta say, that sweet sweet Libertarian Anarchism/Communalism seems pretty level headed to me. Vertical hierarchy inevitably leads to abuses/corruption and representative democracy infantilizes and negates the will of the people. Direct democracy and horizontal organizing structures keep everyone accountable and makes every voice heard. A world of contemporaries working towards our common goals sounds like the kind of thing you build a future (that's not on fire) out of.
Boomers say that because historically, with increasing age people usually also managed to have some things they might want to conserve, like a home and some financial assets to cover their retirement. I’m in my mid thirties and the only feasible way for me to ever own a home is inheriting one. My retirement plan is to die in the revolution. I have nothing to be conservative about
Yeah, I have zero desire to conserve a system that is actively destroying my future. I'm fortunate that I work in an in-demand field, but even as a member of the professional class earning a professional salary, the cost of housing is insane, and the climate crisis is going to deeply impact the state of the world I live in for the rest of my life.
The main thing I'm out here trying to conserve is the environment before we go past the point of no return, which in all honesty we might have already passed.
We've passed the point of no return for many things, but not everything. We could still improve this world's standards if we started taking climate change seriously, but unfortunately our system is designed to react as the last moment instead of being proactive about literally anything.
Im 100% here. By being massively successful I can afford a working class quality of life from yesteryear and mostly just try to enjoy as much local nature as I can while I still can.
even if you do inherit one you will lose it quickly if you get some medical thing that keeps you from working while concurrently giving you large bills.
Same here. I became even more left leaning, the longer I had to partake in the shit Show called economy.
When a Boomer complained to me, that our generation never got anything done and I reminder him which generation was responsible for our low incomes and our inability to move upwards in our carrers thanks to there being to much of them and bl9cking the opportunity, he got really pissed.
Funny enough, the youth vote used to be hotly disputed between liberal and conservative candidates. Nixon won the youth vote in 72, Reagan in 80 and 84, before the "Fuck everyone not alive right now" effects of his administration kicked in for the incoming generations. The 20 years of neoliberalism in the 80s and 90s erased all incentive for the youth to support the status quo, and now conservatives are wondering why they're unpopular with the kids.
Yeah look at our infrastructure and it was massively built from the new deal onward through the silent generation and then in the 80's hit the breaks nationally. the best stuff we have had since is from liberal states and cities.
I'm european, so I have a slightly different view on who is responsible for this, but as a whole it's the same result for us as for you americans when it come to infrastructure. For example our railway networks, which are only maintained at the lowest possible level that the companys can get away with. And I don't want to even talk about thing like streets, bridges, parks and other public infrastructure. Or that more and more youth centres and other such things are closed by the same politicians that then can't shut up about that the youth has to hang around in the streets.
I had what turned out to be Semi leftist ideals as a kid. As a teen I went through an Anti Conservative edgy Atheist ark.
Intellectual dark web tried to turn me conservative, but while I was watching Sargon and other Alt Shite content I was always watching some leftists.
My homepage was a nightmare. I believed in the marketplace of ideas, free speech, and socialism.
But I didn't know the word socialism. I was a no theory having motherfucker.
So, I became an anti liberal mad at SJWs for thinking everything was more important than class and that Class wasn't important at all.
However, the right ended up being homophobic and shit with no principles and also didn't care about poor people are class.
So I'm a communist cause I finally found the politics that actually cared about humans. The politics that were treated as "impossible" my whole life. As I age, I only drift further and further left. I challenge more of the grand narratives I was raised with. Even if I was to "get something to conserve" there is more out there than my crumbs.
Question...what drove you to Communism specifically? As opposed to, say... democratic socialism? I've read the communist manifesto by Marx...and I have to say, while tend to agree with some of the points made throughout...there is definitely some parts of the manifesto I do not align with. Do you have any more modern recommendations for a good communist society outline? Im trying to bridge the ideological gap in my mind because I despise capitalism in it's current form.
Sorry, I'm late responding. Haven't been on here enough. I fundamentally see Democratic socialism as insufficient. I see capitalism as the problem.
Theres the TLDR up front. For clarification, Capitalism is a system that splits us into two groups. Those being owners and workers.
Owning your home or a business you work at isn't what we mean. Owning the means of production that give you the ability to extract value from workers is.
This is class struggle. The rich owners want as much work for as little money. The workers want as much money for their work.
Now, I'm not trying to get into a debate on this, but this is bad. It creates a conflict and tension in society where one side has the power. Now, lets look at another system for a moment. Slavery is bad and had to abolished all at once. For if the slaver kept any power and leverage all improvements in the conditions of slaves could be retracted to suit the slaver's needs.
We could say "don't abolish slavery, but try make it ethical", but not only does this fail to address the moral issues with slavery, but its also ineffective at preventing future abuses and the reduction in rights for the group of people without power.
So, return to capitalism. You have media, beholden to ad companies (the rich by proxy) and the rich who fund it and invest. You have politicians who rely on donors. The more you look the more you find that capital is power and leverage.
Those without have little beyond labor power and the threat of things like violence or sabotage. So, what little treats we win in a demsoc or socdem model will be always subject to the capitalist class allowing it and us maintaining the tension that won it in the first place.
Thus, like the slave owner would worsen the conditions of slaves again. The owner class would worsen the conditions of workers. You can't reform this or slowly improve it to a bearable state. It has to be abolished. And it has to be replaced with a system of collective ownership of natural resources, automated industries, and the ownership of the means of production by the workers who work there.
As for recommendations. Not really. I have my own ideas, but frankly I believe in local community, education, and autonomy. I don't believe the final form of society will resemble a central authority saying what it ought to be. So I feel what matters is giving everyone the freedom to solve their local problems in their own work, place, and community. I think this will be achieved via a government structure built around workers, unions, and democracy.
I see the workers banding together to run the business and business unions forming unions around trades and then these interacting with local government for resource allocation.
I feel like more details is me trying to prescribe what it must be. My primary issue is capitalism and I'm open to discussions about the next step. I'm open to imperfect solutions.
Capitalism isn't perfect. It has market crashes, recessions, depressions. We would be fools to believe communism must be perfect and not just better.
Additional possible data point that the current US conservative movement isn't all that motivated by economic issues and is spending most of its time talking about social stuff like "groomers," woke culture, abortion, CRT, etc.
They are losing ground with suburban voters and gaining with non-college educated voters because of these issues. So those factors are probably working against the traditional trend of "make it in your career, move to the suburbs and then start voting with your pocket-book"
(In addition to the whole you're-never-going-to-own-a-house thing others have already pointed out)
I think we radicalize when we get older. The issue is that the boomers have radicalized to the extreme, turning into the people their parents gave their life to fight against. So we are turning ourselves to the other direction. Also, the center in the us would already be considered right in Europe so having a mild leftist opinion is perceived as extremist.
Older I get the more the communists make sense. Always been left but I always leaned towards the anarchist stuff when I was younger. It'd be weird if your politics didn't change at least a little over time, regardless of your leanings, it's a process of trial and error
This post is wild to me, where I live it's certainly true people are becoming more conservative as they age, and they're the most kind generous people I know.
I was left leaning when I was younger and a lot of that was due to left leaning people on the internet.
As I got older my views haven't changed that much but I definitely feel like the left have caused me to move further to the right. I still heavily believe in high government spending for essentials and free speech (which was a strong left view but is now a far right view). But I definitely see the left skewing the narrative. Things like if you are against open border policies you are a nazi and shit. Day to day conversations with the right are much more manageable and logical than conversations with the everyday left. But the big policies need to be left.
I wish there was some middle ground. Or more accurately a mixture of far left and left with a mixture of right and far right policies. But the left are shooting themselves in foot with a lot of little stuff and ignoring a lot of the big stuff that people care about.
Yeah like "free speech" being a "far right" thing, while simultaneously trying to stop people from talking about LGBTQ+ issues.
Meanwhile the left is doing what that's against free speech? You can say bigoted things all you want still as far as I know. It'll affect what people think of you as a person, but that's not what free speech is about.
From a starting point I feel everyone should have an equal start in life (to a point). So for example everyone that is born should have free healthcare and be able to get whatever job they want as long as they have the ability. That's my core left view.
Secondly. I have a degree in economics and that educates some of my views to be more monetarily and free market orientated. So I'm big on cash transfers where someone else might go for say free food stamps. But overriding that I believe governments should focus more on happiness and wellbeing than GDP or GDP per capita. That's in contrast to my education, or typical takeaways from my education.
My policies would be high government spending, high taxes and cash transfers, subsidies and externalities to fix market issues and help push things into certain ideals.
That means I see myself and left or heavily left leaning. But I'm still proud of my country and think my country comes above others with my money and the money of my countrymen. Which is the right policies I wish more for in a left leaning party. I also feel like people are more responsible for themselves than some people make out.
The issue I find is when talking to the average right winger verse the average left winger.
I have had discussions with people saying they don't think university education should be free or subsidised because if it's valuable they people can take out loans themselves or if someone works hard they can gift it to their children. Someone shouldn't have to give their money so someone else's kid can go to university for free. Now I don't agree but I understand the point and respect their arguments.
On a similar issue I have talked to left wingers who have said all jobs should pay the same, or that men and women should be paid the same irrelevant of what jobs they have. That it's not fair that one degree gets you higher paying life than others. Something like this I do not agree with and do not understand.
It's basically the logic of right wingers make sense but I disagree. The logic of left wingers doesn't make sense but I still agree a lot with them for different reasons.
Even things like COVID. I was huge into vaccines and science and got it as soon as I could, did everything the government told me I was behind it 100%. But I still agreed with the right wingers than any anticovid views should be allowed. I just thought the government should have done better in educating people on the truth.
Ultimately it comes down to my personal experience in dealing with people. In my experience left wingers talk a lot more nonsense and get a lot more aggressive than right wingers.
Only true when you force your views on society and drug those that get more conservative when they get older. Like when your get older you appreciate the professionalism and authoritarian rules. No being more conservative doesn't mean you hate gays and want death upon them, you libs sure do like to assume and generalise.