/e/OS Is Better Than Android. You Should Try It

We need hardware requirements so that not just pixel phones can get grapheneOS.

GOS has strict hardware requirements to increase security that currently only Pixels meet. They won't, and shouldn't, compromise their standards which would give you a weaker OS. Want GOS on other vendors? Convince those vendors to up their hardware game.

Requirements exist. It's just that device manufacturers don't seem to care.

I think it's more reasonable to look at Linux phones than GrapheneOS supporting anything beyond Pixels. I was hoping to get a Linux phone this time around, but they just don't support the basic features well enough. Hopefully my next phone will be a Linux phone, but we'll see.

Giving into Google hardware to escape Google software is a step I don’t want to take

Yeah, it's annoying. However, it's important to note that Google is generally really good about security, so it's not a surprise that their phones have a lot of cool security features.

I also didn't want to give Google money, so I bought a used Pixel and saved a ton of money. I got a Pixel 8 in like-new condition for <$400 on eBay after a big discount from an eBay sale, and I can expect 6+ years of updates (not just security updates, but OS updates). I'm really enjoying GrapheneOS so far. I guess I tangentially helped them, but at least my dollars_ didn't go to Google.

That said, CalyxOS and DivestOS are also fine projects, and I seriously considered using them instead.

My main issue with Pixels is their price, even the Pixel A. They are completely unaffordable new, and only hit below $300 when they barely have any support yet (or are used). I don't mind using an EOL phome because with short support like on phones it is unavoidable, but that would be after alreafdy overpaying.

Unfortunately the fact that NFC can't be used on anything that's rooted anymore is kind of a deal breaker.

NFC can be used on GOS, and they frown on rooting.

If I could use google pay and my normal banking apps with GrapheneOS I would switch to it today.

It's due to PlayIntegrity API wanting a "Google certified OS," which is ironically less secure than hardware attestation that GOS supports. I doubt Google would change their model, but your bank might. Some banks do support GOS, and they have changed at the request of their customers before. Send them the GOS documentation and you might get lucky.

https://grapheneos.org/articles/attestation-compatibility-guide

not being able to use contactless pay does not equal "NFC can't be used on anything".

Sorry, I don't understand the motivation here, you want to not let Google spy on you via their OS, but are perfectly happy to give them your entire payment record?

Banking apps work, at least mine do. NFC works.

Only tap to pay doesn't work.

What's your suggestion for hardware patches after the manufacturer ends support?

Although using an up to date Android userspace is still less bad than stopping all the updates once the vendor jumps the ship.

It's not going to stop a dedicated attacker, but having a somewhat secure webview that's not going tu crumble under the first piece of malicious javascript goes a long way towards the peace of mind.

100% you are correct.

Shame on the down voters.

Running a phone without firmware and driver security patches is a huge risk, that goes up geometrically the longer the phone is out of support.

Lineageos is great for making older devices useful but they are not secure, and they shouldn't be used for anything sensitive like money

For the down voters. Imagine I have a time machine and bring a precontact native American to present day. I know this is dangerous, so I make them read every modern medical textbook first. Chances are they are going to catch a fun modern disease rapidly and die. Not because they didn't have the knowledge, but because their immune system didn't co-evolve with the threats. Being stuck out of time is in anachronism, but that's exactly what we're asking our cell phones to do. We prevent them from co-evolving with current threats, and then expect them to match all the threats in the future.....

Yup, I've been on the fence about buying one since the launch of the OG Pinephone. But I kept waiting until the software support for the things I need arrived (MMS and decent battery life), and that still seems to be unresolved.

I will hopefully have time to hack on it sometime in the next year or two, so I'll probably get one eventually. Then again, maybe I'll just ignore the problem until they release an update or something (would be awesome to get a new SOC with better power saving features).

[ confirmation bias at play. you have switched to bluetooth. it meets or exceeds all your needs. you don't see much public indication to the contrary. you figure bluetooth is the best. ]

1. simplicity the cable just works. no configuration. no pairing .un pairing, figuring why it worked yesterday

2. Audio quality - bluetooth is lossy. we just were given AptX lossless in 2021 ( another confirmation bias ) "Sounds great to me" "I can't hear the difference".
   2 things are both possibly true though: I can't hear the difference. Other people hear a big difference. this seems impossible to some people. As if their senses are the apogee of human sense.

3. lag. new codecs lower latency, but lag lag lag. You couldn't possibly use your device as a synth/music instrument and 'play' the lag is far to great. Same with games.

4. whats the big deal. This is a bias for the plug users - would it hurt to keep it? we've always had it. The work is already done. Its already baked in the cake, why you gotta take it out?

5. Investment - I have really good headphones. I have really good earbuds. Yes there are adapters but they are finicky exactly when you want them to just work. They inevitably break. They often downgrade the sound - I have 3 usb to audio adapters for android that all hiss for no reason.

The issue is that when the marketers are selling us a 'clean vision of the future' they purposefully gloss over the things they are taking away. Then they paint the people who feel pain because of the change as neanderthals who wouldn't know better if it bit them. When they do know better. They had better (for them) and progress made it worse (for them). To which the marketers generally say - you should be someone else.

Just wait until you find out some of us still want FM on our phones.

The thing with SD cards is that there's a crapton of phones with 64/128 internals and still don't have one. I for one wouldn't really need one if I had 512, but to get to 512 you usually hace to pay a huge premium, because all major manufacturers have adopted the apple model of upcharging for storage. And frankly in the age of affordable 1tb SD cards I should't have to pay hundreds to get a measly 256 or 512 gb of storage.

The jack is also a manufactured problem ( also pioneered by apple, iirc ). Why would I give up my existing wired headphones to replace them with expensive sub-standard battery operated ones. Its especially ironic for manufacturers who do a lot of greenwashing. The usb-c adapter is an ok compromise though, and I for one am coming around to that l because you can only find jacks on niche or crap phones these days.

I'm not sure why you brought the "tech is old" argument because frankly it doesn't make sense for these two.

I can't speak to the sd card situation but I still prefer a headphone jack over Bluetooth. I would argue that the vast majority of people (as you put it) use Bluetooth headphones simply because they were forced into it.

Bluetooth is neat and all but it's also super old (28 years!). It's older than smart phones and sd cards. But age aside, it's also not reliable. You cannot guarantee it will work everytime you need it. Whereas you could reasonably expect a headphone jack to work everytime. So replacing old reliable with old not-reliable doesn't seem right from a logical perspective.

My only other concern is convenience. But wired and wireless both have pros and cons and I just consider them more or less equal.

SD cards are awesome, because a high quality 256GB SD card costs about $30, while a 256GB memory upgrade is at least $100 with no option to transfer when you get a new phone.

Cloud storage is pretty expensive and only as fast as your internet speed is, so for a lot of people that is not really that feasible. Especially considering that some have data caps as well.

3.5mm jack is just more comfortable to use for a lot of people, especially when they have multiple source devices and want to switch between them. I have BT headphones and it is way easier and more reliable to just replug the wire than to go through the BT disconnect reconnect dance.

The issue with dongles is that you'll have to find the correct aux dongle, some phones support analog passthrough, others require active dongles and so on

I personally love having extra storage that I can upgrade to whenever I want on a mobile device. Allows me to have things like all my music and text documents on a separate device so I don't have to worry about most of my internal storage being taken up by these files (mostly music). Local music files are also pretty important to me because I don't always like being connected to the Internet just to listen to my favorite songs.

Also, there isn't a single online cloud storage solution that I know of that I trust. I'd set myself up my own, but I trust myself even less for things like that. Last thing I want is either me setting one up and getting my files deleted by random script kiddies finding a way in or for a pre-existing cloud storage provider to suddenly delete my files because they're updating the service so people on lower tiers get less storage.

With headphones, I personally just love the ability to listen at any point without having to worry whether the headphones I'm using need charged. I personally don't love the idea of getting a little dongle to connect to my phone just for plugging in wired headphones because that's just another thing I could easily lose. Similar reason to why I hate short cords in general: easier for me to lose, as has happened plenty of times in the past.

If you have 512gb of storage I think you likely paid more for your phone than I have for my last 3 phones combined going back 5 or 6 years.

Decent wired earbuds are $20. Bluetooth earbuds in that price range are terrible and uncomfortable.

Some of us can't or won't spend lots of money on disposable tech like phones.

You consider yourself a power user, I'm just a guy who needs a phone to phone, text and do a few internet tasks like casual games for work downtime.

I don't have anything against people who like having the latest and greatest tech but I don't have that urge or see the need in some cases. I generally don't like being pushed into spending more money with no appreciable gain in functionality.

enough onboard storage not to require any amount of expansion

This is just wrong, my man! 128GB are NOT enough to not need expansion! And sure, I can pay the manufacturer 50$ for an extra 128 gig, but for the same money I can buy a 500GB SD card online! And many phones don't even have the option for this much storage. Why not offer more storage AND an SD card slot?

All new phones have audio connections built into the USB-C port

Yes they have, but now I can't use my headphones without a shitty adapter anymore. An adapter that can easily get lost! What is the advantage of that?

I can tell you: it's greed! We can sell you more storage at a premium. Your device storage ain't enough? We offer cloud based storage for free! Oh, your free x amount of gigabytes is full? We sell you more storage as a subscription! Well, you don't need storage anyways, because everyone streams their stuff today, don't they? (Also subscription models)

Your phone doesn't have a 3.5mm jack anymore and you can't use your headphones anymore? Buy our adapters for very little money (but that's basically 5$ in extra profit per sold phone). Or, you know, bluetooth headphones! They are more convenient anyways, because they are wireless. Oh, you just need to charge them every few hours and the batteries in them are dead after ~2 years, that means we can sell you another pair for 150$! And god forbid you lose one of the tiny suckers, that's gone be 150$ to replace them.

FUCK THAT!!1!

It has a confidentiality notation system based on exodus privacy. It makes it more visible than on the aurora store. It has the possibility to install app from fdroid, well, at least from the main repo as it is not possible to add more.

There is a high chance that they forked the aurora store, as, most (if not all) of their app are based on open source app. (but if so... why did they remove the option to uninstall app...).

Their app "maps" is just magic earth with an other name and icon.

edit : phrasing

so few devices are supported >?<

I don't agree with that, take a look at this:

Officially supported devices and the list of unofficial /e/ builds part1 and part2 (those might not be working as good as official builds)

I've brought it up before with /e/, that because it's based in Europe it tends to focus on the European market, IMO too much so. Lots of Europe-exclusive phones supported, barely any US-available phones that support tech like 5G (which is not available in Europe). If you want 5G in the US, you're pretty much stuck with the Pixel or the Fairphone, and like you said, you also won't find the Fairphone in a US store (though you can order one from /e/'s website in the US). While I did buy a Murena One (which is a cheap Chinese OEM) in the short time they were selling them in the US market on their website a couple years ago and I'm using it now, good luck finding a US carrier that will support it (T-Mobile was the only one that would) or a repair shop that will touch it if it breaks. I've dropped it a couple times and have a large area of dead pixels on the bottom of the screen, but nobody can get a replacement screen for it.

Oh I see that there are "t" versions which are much more up to date! (2.1, latest in 2024-05). I didn't know about these versions, thank you so much.

Can you confirm that I'll need to wipe everything to switch from R to T? Or is there a way to bridge to that version without data loss?

1.8-r, which seems to be the official version