As a person w/ out d&d experience, who was broadly aware of the game (ie. know classes but not the difference between actions & bonus actions), I didn't have a terrible time onboarding. I started as a paladin and found that most of what I could do was pretty apparent and my friends who probably knew less than me seemed to catch on just as fast.
Some things like throwing potions wasn't as obvious but I could see some choice paralysis from being a spellcaster.
For me, all my trouble comes from my party members. I understand my character and his limitations, but managing classes that I don't fully understand has led to me greying out spells due to armor restrictions or causing my party to accidentally split because the wizard, weighed down by cloth, a book, and a cane, can't jump as high as my fully-kitted out fighter with ringmail and a greatsword and now is alone in combat against some CR3 monster.
Tbf paladin does still have a number of spell that I've used like compel duel, command and the healing spells. Plus I ended up taking 2 lvls in druid to get more spells and slots. Thorn whip is pretty good on a paladin.
I've been thinking about this a lot because I have two weekly games, and both have at least one player who just doesn't really master the rules.
They're not stupid people. But they don't pick up the rules. Ten weeks in and I'm still reminding them about opportunity attacks. One group isn't playing DND and one player has similar problems.
Different values. That's normal. Some people game to win, some people game to explore, some people play to socialice and some people play to unwind. Ask them what is the most important thing about playing for them.
I found that the idea of "D&D" doesn't match with the reality of D&D® (or adjacent like Pathfinder and Shadow of the Demon Lord). Like most people think of grand stories with climactic moments and character growth and the modern D&D offers more of a "square - counting, binary pass/fail roll slog, abstract resource management with little character choice after 3rd level, and almost zero risk" experience. Which is great in a video game, but boring at the table.
I've ran D&D® (or adjacent) for numerous groups for over 30 years now across multiple editions and the most success in the D&D® framework I had was B/X, but I think the game that comes closest to realizing "D&D" as a concept is Dungeon World. No overwhelming player facing textbooks, and it constantly pushes the narrative forward no matter what the outcome of a roll is. It's also free.
There's thousands of different games out there from more complex than D&D to single word RPGs. Find the right one for you and your group 😄
It's perfectly fine to not be a stickler about rules, the real trick is finding a DM who is cool as shit and not all caught up with their own self importance as the controlling power of the game. Play to have fun and roll with it. As long as the group as a whole and the one player is still having fun, that's all that matters.
"Camaraderie, adventure, and steel on steel. The stuff of legend! Right, Boo?" - Minsc the Great, uh, Philosopher Barbarian Ranger
Honestly after a while I stopped caring and just enjoyed that I could do three actions per round as a Monk. Does it matter that Gale can't throw this grenade? Nope. Can he take this healing pot? He sure can! I don't care for minmaxing and optimising my playstyle, I prefer to wing it and see how it goes. If an NPC dies in the process, RNGesus has spoken.
I know this will be a very controversial comment, but I actually can't stand the combat (extremely unfamiliar with the genre as a whole, and I've also never been a fan of turn-based systems), but love the game to death. As a result, I'm using a trainer to essentially trivialize combat encounters, because my BG3 addiction stems from the characters, their stories, the incredible world and the exploration it offers, the side quests, the lore, the insane detail in every corner of the map. I also work 80 hour weeks and want to spend the little time I get with the game doing what I love most, which is exploration and delving into my characters' stories.
I've just gotten through Moonrise Towers (and have done all I can find to do in each area so far, although I already know I'll be doing multiple playthroughs), and it's one of the most immersive and enjoyable gaming experiences I've ever had, despite the fact I'm quite literally cheating my way through combat encounters. I'm basically playing it as a very interactive 'choose your own adventure' novel, with weapon and armor pickups being cosmetic-only in nature, and the focus of my playthrough being on exploring the world and delving into its inhabitants' backstories and the mysteries they hold.
Playing a game differently to make sure you're having fun is fine to me (presuming you're not messing up other people's multiplayer experiences or something, which isn't the case here).
Don't see why this would need to be controversial.
I guess I'm still expecting the reddit response to this kind of thing. I got torn to shreds over there for saying this, despite it being a game I'm playing solo.
I don't disagree with your stance, but I am curious why you decided on a trainer instead of picking the easier difficulty. Did you try it and still find it too much? I have read about the differences between modes but haven't actually tried anything other than normal, and even though I'm extremely familiar with PF 1e and D&D 5e I've struggled with lots of encounters.
I initially started on easy, but just found it far too complex of a system to get my head around, and when my work hours can see me going days between play sessions, any knowledge I do pick up often isn't retained. I also just don't enjoy turn based combat at all, so when I enter combat, I just throw on god mode and infinite turns to get it over and return to the story or quest more quickly (I'll often alter things depending on what's happening in the game at the time though. For example, I did the Gauntlet of Shar with Shadowheart on her own, as it felt like something she needed to tackle solo, even if I wasn't in any genuine danger.)
I guess tl;dr - even easy was a bit too much for me to take in given my work schedule, as well as the combat taking a lot of time away from the aspects of the game I love, namely exploration and stories.
Not the one you're asking but I feel the same as them.
I am playing on the easiest setting with no mods because it's my first playthrough, I can finish the combat sessions without struggling but I don't like the combat mechanics at all, this system is just not for me.
Next playthrough I'll use mods and if there's something that can make combat finish as fast as possible so I don't have to deal with it too much, I'll definitely use it.
You're not alone, I can't stand the combat either, not a fan of turn-based combat in RPGs and DnD rules seem needlessly complicated for a videogame, but I absolutely love everything else about BG3, there are so many possibilities I want to explore.
I'm doing my first playthrough on the easiest setting without mods but from the next I'll use mods and if there's something that can reduce combat to a minimum I'll definitely use it. What trainer are you using?
What about the combat is so unbearable for you? Is it too complex or too long per encounter? I've played a lot of CRPGs so to me the combat is very intuitive and one of my favorite parts of the game.
I think it mainly comes down to the length per encounter, on top of the turn based system and mechanics I'm very unfamiliar with. I have pretty severe ADHD too, so it's kinda a perfect storm of combat mechanics I've never been a fan of. I prefer real time, "learn the patterns" style combat ala Dark Souls or Sekiro. If I was younger and had more time to play, I'd likely have pushed through and learned the way BG3 plays on a fundamental level, but the reality is, I have 3-5 hours to play once or twice a week, and I just don't want to sacrifice time in a combat system I don't find enjoyable when I could be out adventuring and meeting new characters.
I'm a different commentor but wanted to reply with my biggest complaint about the combat is that I can't skip the enemy turns and fast forward through them. It gets real tedious when you get into the encounters with like 20+ enemies. Otherwise I enjoy the combat. Do wish opportunity strikes against me would trigger a warning and ability to cancel my movement though since I often miss the red arrow or I misclick 1mm too far.
Then fucking comment somewhere else. This thread is for discussing combat difficulty, not raging at other people's opinions you stupid small dicked cunt.
40 hours later of couch co-op with my inexperienced partner who chose Wizard for some reason, and their character is finally useful in battle near the end of act 2.
I try not to control them, I just say what I'm doing and planning so they don't launch my team off a cliff. Occasionally I'll say "Yes, counterspell cloudkill please." but I'm mostly hands off. When asked for advice I give it, I'm not a monster, I just think if we're playing together we should both get to play.
I haven't played any DnD since 3rd, and my partner loves these role playing shows like Critical Role or whatever. My biggest takeaway I've had from our sessions is that those shows most not have any mechanics whatsoever.
The shows follow the rules and utilize all mechanics, but you need the context. As someone familiar with 3.5, Critical Role got me 95% to playing the 5th edition without touching the books.
Can't say the same would apply to someone new to pen-and-paper RPGs.
DnD is stupidly complicated and hopefully this is a call out to WotC to realise that their system isn't the gold standard because of its rules, but moreso out of happenstance.
It's funny you say this when 5E is considered the "simplified" version, and 6E (One DnD) is suspected to be more complex. Pathfinder 1e(basically dnd 3.5E) is way, way more complex and even pathfinder 2e, which is much more simpler than 1e, is more complex than 5e.
In any case, as TTRPGs go, current DND is quite simple. However, it seems that some people who enjoy RPGs just want a simpler experience I guess.
Yeah it's insane to me seeing this take around with this release. There are definitely intentionally rules light, heavy narrative systems that are less crunchy but DnD is not really very complicated.
Eh, there are different kinds of simplicity. My big problem with 5E is that it puts so much at GM discretion without any strong guidance than it feels like a completely different system between one GM and the next. This does in fact make character creation (and to a lesser extent gameplay) needlessly complicated because what constitutes an optimal (or even reasonable) character depends heavily on which rules the GM is going to choose to use.
The system I basically started TTRPGs with was Pathfinder. It's rediculously more complex, but it's complex for a reason. The rules are created I'm a way that there are almost no limits to what actions you can take that are covered. D&D has a lot of options, but some of it just has to be left the the DM.
Then we have BG3, which removed even more options, though for good reason. Creating a video game that can account for anything the player can do is hard, though some things are just missing and I'm not sure why. For example, no grappling (by the player). My guess would be that may be for animation reason (having to account for non-humanoid grappling) but I feel like they could have done something to make it work.
I quite honestly don't understand the opinion of DnD being complicated at least from what I've played everything runs smooth. It being inside of a video game makes things even clearer with UI.
When you're playing with paper and dice, things go off the rails real quick. The players can pretty well do whatever they get into their heads to do. One party that I remember decided to start digging a tunnel in the middle of a dungeon. I still don't really know where that idea came from.
BG3's 5e DnD is very simple compared to Pathfinder. I finished both of the Pathfinder CRPGs before playing BG3 and was shocked at how easy it is to make a good build compared to the Pathfinder games. Throw in [BG3 Spoilers] >!an angry ex god helping you!< you'll have a lot of room to experiment with your builds.
I only ever found the magic classes complicated when I was new. The limited spells per day and number of cast rules, what you had access to as what, memorizing, etc... All a lot of work compared to other games I was used to just having a mana pool.
The fact that they let prepared casters change prepared spells without a long rest is a HUGE buff. As written you pick your spells when you long rest, and if it turns out you needed something you didn't prepare you'd be out of luck
5e (and BG3 in turn) even simplified Vancian casting compared to previous versions. Used to be that you had slots that you prepared a specific spell for. If you had four slots and needed to cast Magic Missile three times, but you used two of those slots to prepare Grease and Fog Cloud, you were out of luck.
It... Does. I enjoy having spell levels and slots way more than something like mana. In any system with mana I almost always use either the most dmg/mana efficient spell or the big one, etc. Having spells be divided in levels and action/bonus action makes for a much more interesting combat.
For example, I much preferred the way DS1&2 does spellcasting compared to DS3 and elden ring. You have a limited amount of casts and the system forces you to either have a varied spellcasting repertoire or to find your way to get several of the same spell to ge more uses. Mana is... mana. Boring.
I just turned it down to the lowest difficulty setting until I learned how the system works. By level 7 I'm holding my own in balanced setting and enjoying the hell out of this game. It's all I play now lol
I would assume that it helps casual players by removing confusing options ans reducing choice paralysis. There's already a lot to choose and think about with one class - multi classing makes it even more complex and scary.
I'm a casual in that I play games not to prove anything to anyone, but to escape to another world for a couple hours. It makes no sense that it's not even an OPTION.
There's a fair bit of onboarding and constant learning if people are coming into D&D or similar games. I felt the same with pathfinder trying to understand spell metamagic (caster levels, DCs etc)
That’s odd because I’ve always struggled to grasp the entire rules of D&D in a whole for playing any sessions. But BG3 has managed to present all these elements in such an intuitive way I now feel like I finally have a great grasp of all the rules. I’ve even found I have to start playing on tactician difficulty and whilst dressing my party in funny outfits and ignoring armour buffs, or I’m starting to find the combat too easy once you start to get creative.
It's... it's based on DnD, a game reliant on dice rolls. The core of it is the RNG that changes the probability of every encounter. I'll never understand people who keep saying the thing they hate about BG3 is always a core DnD mechanic when Larian has only every been upfront about this being them using 5e as their base to build the game around. This is the closest to a single player TTRPG simulator that we've ever had. What kind of game were you expecting?
I think lots of people didn’t know what kind of game they were expecting. Some people bought the game because it was popular, rather than because they necessarily like the genre.
I’m not a DnD fan (tried playing a few times, just never clicked) and I find that the same things that I disliked about it are also the things I dislike about BG3.
That’s not to say it’s a bad game, and I’m enjoying it quite a bit, but there’s definitely elements of DnD that I feel are very limiting to the enjoyment of playing.
I'm very aware of all of that. I still don't like the heavy RNG lol. I want to save scum less, that's what I'm expecting. Even if it's 5e combat. I'm just not a fan of DnD combat, but I still love everything else about bg3.
Might not be the game for you. Part of the appeal of dnd for me is not being to get everything because of the dice. Not every door can be unlocked, not every social interaction will succeed. Even combat, I have to flee with half the party dead and then revive them later because a critical spell didn't succeed or a concentration save wasn't made.