I have corporations running ads telling me to save the earth and do my part. Mother fuckers, I do my part and your CEO destroys all my work in one day. I'm kinda getting sick of the blame being put on my poor ass who can barely afford to survive.
So, I assume you’re vegan? The ecology of this planet will collapse unless most of humanity stops consuming animal products. That or magic.
I am. And for every animal I don't eat, a billionaire throws a meat party and goes hunting for exotic animals. Again, why are you blaming me? Even if I ate meat every meal I wouldn't come close in a year to doing as much damage as a billionaire does in a day. So again, stop telling me about it and go after them.
Did capitalism destroy this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
The Aral Sea is considered an example of ecosystem collapse.[42] The ecosystems of the Aral Sea and the river deltas feeding into it have been nearly destroyed, largely because of the salinity being dramatically higher than ocean water.[5] The receding sea has left huge plains covered with salt and toxic chemicals from weapons testing, industrial projects, and runoff of pesticides and fertilizer. Because of the shrinking water source and worsening water and soil quality, pesticides were increasingly used from the 1960s to raise cotton yield, which further polluted the water with toxins (e.g. HCH, TCCD, DDT).[43] Industrial pollution also resulted in PCB and heavy-metal contamination
This was the result of this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Plan_for_the_Transformation_of_Nature
Exploiting nature and fucking things up is not limited to capitalism.
Plus, animal consumption is among the top three causes of ecological destruction on this planet. Do people think burgers only exist under capitalism? That palm oil and pig meat are an obsession of the super rich? It’s not a matter of efficiency (farming is already absurdly efficient). It’s just math. Like everyone will give up chicken nuggets to save the planet or something? Good luck with that. People are obdurate and gross.
Getting rid of capitalism is a step in the right direction, sure, but unless folks are willing to give up meat, cars, airplanes, and who knows what other amenities, we are still just as fucked.
Human caused environmental devastation didn't start in the 1600s, capitalism did. I don't think humans are a virus, but I don't think that abolishing capitalism is the only critical step in preventing environmental catastrophe.
We've been here 200,000 years, we've been farming for the last 12,000 of those. Environmental destruction is, reletively, a very very new phenomenon.
That's an a-historical point of view. There have been several environmental catastrophes, including some causing massive climactic shifts introduced by prehistoric humans, some of them are documented in 1491, by Charles Mann. Poor farming practices, including some that have been practiced for thousands of years, are a huge factor in desertification. I completely agree that the rate and scale of environmental catastrophe is new, but the risk of it and tendency towards it is not. While I think capitalism is ABSOLUTELY the single greatest barrier to addressing the catastrophe, the scale and speed of that catastrophe could be just as easily tied to population growth as the emergence of capitalism.
Given that the environmental depredation of this planet is driven by
- the farming of animal products,
- the production and consumption of energy, and
- the extraction and transformation of material resources,
can people explain why they believe that without capitalism everyone would be a vegan who doesn’t take vacations, use air conditioning, fly on airplanes, or drive a car? I also assume they’re wearing hemp and have no interest in fashion.
Keep in mind there are 8 billion people on this planet, so presumably they wouldn’t be having children either.
EDIT: the reply below completely ignores my question. Very few people seem to actually give a shit about the environment. It’s all just ideological posturing. And that is why we are fucked.
They would simply consume less and not be as driven to consume. Capitalism drives up the consumption to ridiculous levels, greed is not actually good. We could focus the economy on needs first and ensure it exists so people can still acquire goods and services in exchange for money so no one is working for nothing. But no more wealth accumulation into the stratosphere. There’s a lot that would need to change
These can exist at the same time. It is not binary.
The extinction of animals because of human action predates agriculture. This comic is the middle of the bell curve meme.
Israel keeps massacring Gazans and yet the carbon emissions of the region aren't falling. I don't understand. I was told it was an overpopulation problem. What else could it be?
ITT: The environmental consequences of precapitalistic modes of production confuse lemmies to defend a nonsense statement in a totally different paradigm.
I wish my hair looked like that
So China must be a paragon of eco-friendly, right? Right? Like, you wouldn't place all your bets in a pseudo-imaginary concept that has never been able to materialize and when it does it only seems to favor fascist behavior, right? Right? It must also mean that there aren't capitalist nations the means and innovation for protection of the environment, right? Right? You totally aren't setting yourself up for a scale you will define completely subjectively to suit your point, right? Right?
So China must be a paragon of eco-friendly, right?
If every country was doing as well as China right now, the world would be a much better place. But the Chinese advantage is largely in its cutting edge industrial capacity. A bit unfair to hold Vietnam or Cuba to the standards of a tech giant.
It must also mean that there aren’t capitalist nations the means and innovation for protection of the environment, right? Right?
Economic central planning that forecasts the consequences of ecological degradation on a 5, 10, and 50 year time horizon will lead administrators to policies that individual businesses fixated on quarterly profits and annual executive compensation packages don't want to embrace.
Past that, a big part of what the Chinese environmentalist project has been about is experimentation. They've done manual reforesting along the Gobi Desert. They've done nuclear energy R&D. They've done carbon capture projects. They've invested enormous sums in their space program.
Most of the western R&D and infrastructure development has been limited by what the O&G industry is willing to directly invest in (carbon capture, converting from coal to nat gas with supplementary wind/solar, carbon credits and other forms of green financialization) all of which are designed to immediately enrich their bottom lines. That's not even considering the deliberate efforts to maximize fossil fuel usage (the Texas ERCOT grid refusing to buy cheap renewable/nuclear power from outside the state, various states threatening to prohibit/tax electric vehicles and renewable energy power systems).
To conclude capitalist rent seeking isn't guiding any of these policies is deeply irrational.
Okay, but how much real communities can exist before a capitalist fucking kills them from Terraism and makes them a gorram capitalist?
I don't know, my human body feels like some kind of ailment. Let me ascend into spiritual existence.
I don’t even know if I want to argue anymore. Every endangered group needs a sanctuary. It’s like living museum. Curious and fascinating but thankfully with zero power or chance to get it.
Tho commies could clash with the alt right and both disappear while normal ppl live on
Communists far-outweigh the number of alt right globally.
Edit: And in come the down votes! How about this? You can downvote me if you completely watch "the Chekist".
I stubbed my toe this morning, damn capitalism!
I'm not wrong, this sub just blames everything on capitalism, supports it all with slogans and cherry picked information, and everyone conveniently ignores how shit communism has worked out for the common folk since it's inception.
How about this? Anyone who wants to know about communism should first watch "the chekist", this sub would empty faster than Disney plus.
And yes, capitalism has loads of horrible issue that must (and can) be fixed, but everyone here conveniently ignores the simple fact that it's the biggest system because it's beyond by far the most successful system. Denying that is not wanting to look out of your window. Using your cell phone to write about denying that capitalism is successful is... crazy, really. Focus on fixing capititalism instead of dreaming about creating dictatorships, please?
You aren't allowed to downvote me unless you waaaatch... let's saaaaay The Land Before Time XIV: Journey of the Brave.
The capitalist system is large because it enriches the greedy and powerful. Why bite the hand that feeds you, even if it starves others. A system's prevalence is also not any garuntee of goodness or fairness, just sustainability. Capitalism has beenaround for a few hundred years and it's already falling apart. Monarchies governed almost all humans for thousands of years. So capitalism is worse than the system it replaced by your metric.
We don't want eastern authoritarian communism, we want western socialism. Take the Nordic model and turn it up to 11. No dictators, but no billionaires, just people still working, just a little less often and getting a little more for it. That's all. No homeless, no hungry, free university childcare and healthcare, otherwise life is not that different for the already doing okay working class.
Joke all you want, if that makes you feel better about the realities of communism
If you want communism you have to watch "the Chekist". Not because I tell you to but because it is a telling of the red terror and shows quite well what communism works at its core. You will end up with mass murder because it's the only way to keep the populace in line because you must take away their freedoms.
If you want your communism then first watch that, then tell me if you still want it. Think it's western propaganda? It's written by a guy who lived the shit you want.
You say you don't want the dictators, but therein lies the problem. If you go for full communism, that is what you'll need.
I'm all for a strict and limited capitalism with higher taxes the richer you get to 100% tax in income after a certain level. Tax houses heavily when you got more than one.l, that sort of thing. Use all the income for free medical care, free schools, strong safetynets and support for those at the botto, free infrastructure and public transportation.
Edit: here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_RSDqBn0bA shows nicely how communism always ends up. If communism isn't your thing, great. The problem is that too many people here love it for some reason
is capitalism really democracy?
Here's a hot take: Both systems are shit and we need something better to replace both.
I'm not saying I have the solution; just that what we have now isn't working very well.
That aside:
Democracy ≠ Capitalism, and Communism ≠ Dictatorship.
Those are four seprate terms that are not synonyms for each other. Just because people hate Capitalism does not mean they dream of a Dictatorship... Wanting to work together towards communal goals is not the same as wanting to be ruled by some King/Queen.
I agree that communism is not a dictatorship, but it does require one to get everyone in line.
I think the best way is a very well controlled capitalism with good taxation on the rich class to ensure you have a great and prosper economy and use the money for a great socialistic welfare system on top of that. Basically what the northwest European countries have. Add rules like "richest person should not surpass 10x the poorest person in wealth" or something oversimplified like that.
