EFI is so much better
GPT you mean. Linux can boot in a non-EFI machine that has GPT disk partitions.. Windows can't because it's dumb.
Yes but by doing so you're using the same principles as MBR boot. There's still this coveted boot sector Windows will attempt to take back every time.
What's nice about EFI in particular is that the motherboard loads the file from the ESP, and can load multiple of them and add them to its boot menu. Depending on the motherboard, even browse the ESP and manually go execute a .efi from it.
Which in turn makes it a lot less likely to have bootloader fuckups because you basically press F12 and pick GRUB/sd-boot and you're back in. Previously the only fix would be boot USB and reinstall syslinux/GRUB.
I’m not having an AI boot my computer!
No I mean EFI. It is a much simpler than MBR.
Not sure if serious.
Start using and efistub and never worry about boot loaders again!
systemd-boot is a reasonable compromise. i like it
The reality is that a bootloader will seemingly always be needed to account for difficult BIOS' and legacy setups (I'm looking at you, dual-booted Ubuntu 20.04).
Ah yes, simplicity. MBR, with all its limitations had one killer feature: it was extremely simple.
UEFI, as powerful as it is, is the opposite of simple. Many moving parts, so many potential failure points. Unfortunately, it seems like modern software is just that: more complex and prone to failure.
Exactly why old devices are so hard to break - they're incredibly simple.
To be honest, I see nothing wrong with MBR boot, it does the job, I'll use it till I can or till it doesn't do the job I want/need.
I work in IT for many years and I think your last sentence is very true. And is also why the industry is so lucrative haha
True, but… When MBR Grub drops to rescue or doesn’t appear at all, it’s not only difficult (at least for newbies) but somewhat random if you can actually boot a given OS. With EFI Grub, I’ve often managed to boot using BIOS boot override to launch a usable Grub configuration.
Actually grub 0.x series had much more useful rescue shell tab completion than the latest release. You could easily list all boot devices, partitions, and even filesystems and their contents. All from the rescue shell. Consequently, you could boot into Linux and reinstall grub in the MBR to fix it. All that without using a boot CD/USB! Good luck doing that with the latest version of grub and UEFI.
Also getting into the BIOS on legacy firmware was also very simple. On most machines it’s the three finger salute followed by either F1, Delete or rarely F11 or F12.
The boot process was simple, and the BIOS had just one simple task: load and execute the first 512 bytes of the disk that was designated as the boot device. That’s it.
Do we really ever fix the bootstrap, or does the bootstrap fix us?
Nuke the boot loader and burn your compiled code directly onto the bare metal the way the designers intended.
OK, how do we do that?
Gotta be real precise with a lighter
Was upgrading Devuan and something happened with grub-update, could be my btrfs subvol setup?
Anyway a rescue boot, chroot and grub-update later, and it's running great again.
i prefer EFI, MBR breaks easily and dual booting with it is horrible
I have litelarly never broken MBR boot while dual booting and I have done it for at least a decade now. Windows updates and everything, not once has MBR boot been broken for me.
Unless you have two EFI partitions on different disks, the same breakage happens with EFI. I've had Windows wipe out Grub on multiple occasions.
Honestly can't remember the last time I had a bootoader issue. Don't get me wrong, I've broken plenty of other things.
Windows 7 used to thunderfuck grub at random every few updates just to keep everyone on their toes.
I've been struggling with the boot loader for four days now and now my laptop boot loops and I can't even access my primary OS (still windows) and can only access Ubuntu via flash drive. So yeah this meme is too fucking on.
Chroot into the main Ubuntu partition from the live USB and update GRUB.
MBR is so easy to understand. UEFI, has so many things to understand EFI, ESP, MOK, signing procedures and signing chains, ... it's just so darn complicated.
- Disable secureboot
- Things just work
And in the end you just remove the need for a physical attacker to use whatever vulnerability there is in your EFI implementation anyway.
Things just work
Yeah, if you have only one OS. Or when you have more than one, but the other one doesn't constantly try to fuck up the first one.
MBR is easy in this regard. Windows never touches the MBR magic, even when updating, so it's all good. GRUB keeps the MBR in check, Windows doesn't meddle, everything's hunky dory in MBR boot land.
Yep. Plus, the less the firmware knows what you're booting, the better.
Started using UEFI booting with secure boot. Much easier to fix and work with.
Can't relate to be honest, I have a life and use Fedora
I feel this.
Although my last bootloader is adventure was pretty easy...installed a completely separate drive for Linux and wanted to boot off of that drive (sdb). A bug in the Linux mint installer put the bootloader on my the windows drive instead (sda).
Was fairly straightforward to switch over though (change in fstab then installing grub). I use the bios boot selector (F11) for me to select either the win loader or my Linux mint efi.
Am switching over to Linux as primary driver. So tired of nags, ads, "switch to Edge", long updates, etc. love being able to ssh+x onto that (relatively beefy) box from my laptop and run ides and such.
No need to fix it, the bootloader is safely installed on a write-protected floppy disk
I had used Arch for years before and never once messed up my bootloader. What are yinz doing over there?
PA dripping off this comment
Nyehehe :3
My problems are usually during the installation, not necessarily related to Arch, but more so that EFI requires its own partition. I'll partition my disk, forget that I need a FAT32 partition and then have to destroy a partition so I can add in the EFS . The other problem I've had is that the bootloader entry sometimes doesn't get written after installation, so you reboot and then nothing, so you have to boot back into the ISO, remount everything, reinstall the bootloader (in my case, Grub), and reboot again.
You probably had it installed in MBR mode. UEFI boot is why there are so many problems of this kind nowadays. Switch to MBR, the problems go away.
Im happy that I haven't fucked up the bootloader so far. Don't want to fix that shit too.
I just killed my desktop environment but the bootloader works.
That is good news actually.
I bout a new HDD and installed linux mint. Works fine except for two major things. Related to the post, I cannot get the bootloader to find windows 10 no matter what I do. I might try to swap the windows drive to sata slot 1 and see if that (a) still works for windows and (b) gets grub2 working. For now, I have to go into the BIOS and mess with the boot order there to switch.
The second problem, not related, is there doesn't appear to be any fan control software that works for my MSI motherboard's CPU fan (lmsensors doesn't see any sensors related to it) so the fan constantly runs even when it's fine in silent mode on windows with regard to temperature. I have trouble with certain sounds (and trouble hearing over background sounds in general) so this is actually more of a dealbreaker than the bootloader.
For now, I have to go into the BIOS and mess with the boot order there to switch.
Why not just use the BIOS boot menu?
The second problem, not related, is there doesn't appear to be any fan control software that works for my MSI motherboard's CPU fan (lmsensors doesn't see any sensors related to it) so the fan constantly runs even when it's fine in silent mode on windows with regard to temperature. I have trouble with certain sounds (and trouble hearing over background sounds in general) so this is actually more of a dealbreaker than the bootloader.
Try setting that from the BIOS, let the BIOS control the fan's RPM, not the OS. You can even make a custom RPM curve on modern BIOSes.
MSI has a Windows utility to control the fans as desired. I don't think there's a BIOS boot menu, but I will check.
EDIT:
Fan curves are apparently in "Hardware Monitor" because that makes sense. Blah. I still have to tweak more, or maybe Linux is just running hotter on my machine, but improvement has happened.
I didn't realize my BIOS could have a boot menu pop up because the splash screen disappears instantly. Problem solved. Thank you!
Legit question. Outside of FOSS and a few more frames per second on some steam games, why would anyone go through the trouble of installing and configuring a Linux box? Last time I tried I couldn't get my Bluetooth headphones to work and I had to buy a new webcam because I didn't know how to compile drivers.
I sorta just accept I'm running a bit slower and everything works on my TinyPC win10 box.
I find the experience to be superior to Windows in every way, including driver support. And it gets more and more stark with every version of Windows.
Ten, you say? Is that still supported?.
Last time I tried I couldn’t get my Bluetooth headphones to work and I had to buy a new webcam because I didn’t know how to compile drivers.
When was that? 2002?
It wasn't recent. I think it has to be at least 5 years ago.
The noname webcam I had was awesome. Had a bright LED when you're on a call. This was before covid, so before all the webcam innovations. I could get the camera to engage but couldn't get the LED to turn on.
I had to end up getting a Logitech webcam.
I fix my webcam issue by reinstalling Windows.
I would say convenience, my experience is that it just works, and then you get an OS you are fully in control of.
On Windows you sit down to do stuff and Windows needs to reboot and update, and you have already postponed it as long as you were allowed.
Yes there will always be some hardware that lacks Linux support, and the migration to Linux can be bumpy.
In my experience it usually doesn't just work at first but after you get used to it and it's fine. More importantly, if you have a problem you can find it and fix. If you're not happy with how it looks, change it and if you don't want companies spying on you, don't install their software.
Also as someone that sometimes has to use windows I absolutely hate being forced to do updates, like come on I just wanted to turn it off and leave and then I have to wait 5 minutes for it to go through the update and boot again just to turn it back off because it can't remember that I pressed the off and not reboot button.
FOSS is a really big reason to run Linux. In ten years you can trust that your Linux install will be running and up to date. In ten years there's a non-zero chance Microsoft will have moved to a forced subscription model for Windows.
It also just runs faster, can fully update itself and all installed software with a few button clicks or one terminal command, and has tons of options for people who have more technical skill.
I cannot answer your question because it proceeds from an assumption I cannot related to. In my view, Linux is much easier to setup and I have immediate access to a huge software library and am immediately productive.
Installing Windows is much more of a hassle ( the licensing alone ) and, even once installed, you have a system that does nothing useful and needs much more time to install software on before accomplishing anything. Every time you turn around, it is throwing up arbitrary and artificial roadblocks.
Unless it is already installed, I personally cannot fathom why people would want to spend their time installing Windows.
why would anyone go through the trouble of installing and configuring a Linux box?
It doesn't cost any money and it doesn't spy on you. It tends to be "lighter" than Windows, so it generally runs better on older hardware. It is easier to tweak and customize.
Hardware support and no ads on your desktop.
If you get used to the terminal, to connect your bluetooth headphones you turn on your bluetooth and type
bluetoothctlscan onit'll scan and return devices by mac address, find yours, typepair [the mac address]connect [mac address]exitexitdone.I just switch my gaming rig to linux 3 or 4 months ago. First time daily driving linux. I haven't touched a driver or anything system config related. I don't think there is a single peice of hardware not working on my box. Im on pop_os! With an amd gpu. Can play any game thanks to steam proton or lutris. Playing wow and cyberpunk right now.
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing. I honestly haven't thought about drivers either. Sounds like outside of No ads and bloatware, which is completely removed with the Tiny11 build, I don't see an advantage. At least not worth the trouble learning it.
When was that last time? In the last 5 years, except for brand new graphics cards, I've never had any hardware that didn't simply work out of the box.
And for the first question, it works much better and breaks less often (these memes exaggerate for comedic effect, usually it's rock solid), has much greater privacy, and it's free.
AFAIK games generally still run worse on Linux, there are cases that seem to beat Windows performance, but I'm not kidding myself about that - it's just not big enough of a difference to worry.
Aside from other reasons people are saying, I love my package manager. Having a centralized system where my stuff comes from and is installed, not having to deal with searching for websites, finding installers, and dealing with the bullshit they sometimes throw your way. And guess what, if something's not available in the repositories, perhaps because it offers no installers in the first place, I can usually easily make my own build script and install it in the system anyways.
And then when it comes to updating my stuff, I also don't have to deal with every program having its own updating/auto updating system, I just run a few commands and update everything I have installed.
And then when it comes to updating my stuff, I also don't have to deal with every program having its own updating/auto updating system, I just run a few commands and update everything I have installed.
This is the best part for me... well, one of the best parts 😁.
Principle. I'm not interested in abusive relationships.
