I'll answer your question with another question: is it Vegan to eat bacon made from a pig you personally raised up from birth after it dies naturally having lived a full life?
If you define Veganism as a diet, then bacon's bacon. If you define Veganism as a personal reaction to the cruelty of industrial farms, then perhaps this is how you get Vegan bacon. If you define Veganism as something more spiritual, then perhaps desecrating your dear friend's corpse by eating it is even worse.
I’m in the road kill is vegan camp, so sure after Winnie croaks chow down.
If the pig dies naturally, you probably don't want to eat it, right? Because it was either from disease, or it'll be a really un-tasty pig 🤷♂️
I would say yes. Plants feed off of the bodies of dead lions according to this animated documentary I saw, and that doesn't make them any less vegan. Then again, I'm not a vegan, so I might be entirely wrong.
But Scavengers feed off dead bodies too. Is Hyena vegan? What about crow?
Vegan here. Interesting question! I think you're going to get a different answer depending on the vegan you talk to. Personally, this is the definition of veganism I subscribe to:
"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
By that definition, for me, it is not vegan. If the VFT has been grown by humans, and fed insects, then that is non-vegan, because there was a lot of animal suffering that went into growing that VFT. Furthermore, VFTs are not required for sustaining the human body, so the only reason to do this is for human pleasure or something.
Edit to add: if the VFT was found in nature, I probably still wouldn't consume it, because 1) I don't even know if VFTs are edible 2) if they are, I've got better food with me that probably caused less animal suffering, and are less morally ambiguous.
Thanks! A legitimate answer, other than people calling me a moron.
I'll admit, this was a 'is a hotdog a sandwich' kind of question.m, but I learned something too!
They're also rare, not supposed to harvest, instead you should buy them from people who cultivate them as to not harm the "wild" population.
Not trying to sound pedantic or rude, by just generally curious; What about all the other microorganisms, bacteria,etc that are within any given plant you eat line up with this eh, philosophy? I know this may come across as a bit reductionist, but I guess when you see a lot of edge cases, it becomes a sword XD
Like, how would veganism feel about a person's immune system killing off other things? Do you avoid hand sanitizer? I guess the crux of my questions boil down to where the line is drawn. Does it only apply to non plant/fungi?
Those scenarios fall under the "as far as possible and practical" clause. Plants and fungi need insects to pollinate them, and microorganisms for nutrients. Veganism isn't a death-cult, so we have to eat something. Therefore, those insects and microorganisms are necessary.
Ditto for immune system and hand sanitizer. They are necessary parts of being human.
Another common one to ask about is animals killed in the process of farming, such as field mice that are caught in machinery. I also recognize those as necessary in the current system, but I do grow some of my own food as a small way to minimize those things, and I believe that if more people cared, we could eliminate that problem. But it's not something in my power, so I must classify it under the "as far as possible and practical" clause.
Another is animals that die as a result of roads. My answer to that one is /c/fuckcars
I believe there are some vegans who won't eat figs because they absorb the body of a certain type of wasp. I forget the details, but the point is - it probably depends on the vegan
Yes. They aren’t digesting meat, they are absorbing potassium and fixed nitrogen. The plant cells are, well, plant cells.
I can't breathe from laughing at this.
Yes. It's a plant. Made of plant things. In the same way that plants that are fertilized by dead bodies would also be vegan. You aren't eating meat. The plant is receiving sustenance from breaking down that organic material but you aren't.
Meat is literally dead bodies, which we derive sustenance from.
Harvested plants would be considered dead (plant) bodies, so where is the difference?
The best argument I've heard so far is the one around sentience, but that gets confusing too, since plants react to stimuli and grass can signal other plants it's being eaten.
But the question you asked was about a vegan diet.
The difference is complex chemical reactions. These complex reactions could be "sentience" but it's the number of reactions and how they all work together to accomplish goals beyond their singular function.
Plants perceived communicating is due to adaptation and evolution to protect themselves from predators and fire. They did not develop communication skills like an animal would have to also protect itself. Perception and interaction are not communication.
No no. I mean if a plant is nourished by dead animals who have died near them. Or in some places where animal bodies are used in fertilizer.
If the VFT was grown for human purposes such as eating then no it would not be vegan, as they require a small but steady stream of bugs to grow. Though if you found a feed alternative like a nutrient pill then I guess it could be vegan. As for a VFT found in the wild then yes it would be vegan, anything it has consumed in the past wasn't done so for your sake.
I think you made a typo in your first sentence. I think you meant to say it's non-vegan in that scenario.
Thanks for letting me know, fixed.
In the same way as eating a cow is not considered vegan even though the cow only eats grass, yes eating a plant that eats flies would still be vegan.
Is murdering a murderer who plans to murder again murder?
I imagine there is gray in veganism, as with all philosophical life choices.
If you murder a murderer, the number of murderers in the world stays the same.
So you should murder at least two.Well I hope those plants taste as good as they smell to flies...
I’ve taken some high school algebra so let’s see how I can analyze this.
- Is murdering a murderer who plans to murder again murder?
- Is murdering X murder
- Murdering X = murder
- Is murder murder?
- Yes
I feel like whatever the answer is, it has to be the same as "is eating mushrooms vegan?"
Which side of the debate were you on, OP?
Both, but with a leaning towards 'not vegan'
Edit: thank you for all the thoughtful replies from the people who downvoted but left an explanation!
The more I think about this question, the more complexities it creates. I am not a vegan, so I can only guess what the average vegan would think...
- If you eat a plant that causes harm to a living being like an insect, are you doing a moral good from a vegan perspective because you are reducing harm?
- Would it be morally good for a vegan to use vegan means to prevent more harm to animals?
- Would it be the ultimate moral good for vegans to hunt down every wild Venus flytrap and consume them?
- What if the Venus flytrap only ate insects that significantly harmed animal or human populations by spreading diseases?
- If vegans could alter the environment using non-vegan means, in such a way that bats stopped eating mosquitoes without upsetting the overall ecosystem, but these mosquitoes started spreading a terrible but non-deadly disease in humans, would it be moral for them to do so, or would it be immoral for them to avoid it?
Unfortunately, I don't know the calculus a vegan uses when placing value on the life of a human versus an animal, so the bat mosquito thing is entirely up in the air for me up in the air for me
Well, the definition of being vegan is eating plants only. The part about animal sufffering is a justification of being vegan.
Well, to be more precise, vegan stands for the lack of an animal's influence in a product. This distinction is important as mushrooms/fungi are not categorised as simple plants, vegetables, fruits, legumes, nuts and so on.
Correct. If it's not an animal product (as in, meat or an animal byproduct lile milk and eggs), it's vegan.
That's not the definition of veganism at all. It's actually not even the definition of a plant based diet since plant based dieters eat fungi and yeast.
Yeah, they can eat mushrooms and other fungi. I should have picked my words better.
Also, dictionary definition:
A Venus flytrap cannot consent to being eaten, so no.
What? Plants don't consent to being eaten. In fact, under this logic only cannibalism can be vegan.
Correct.
