The idea that you should put complete freedom above all else has been a disaster for the human race. No, you cannot do whatever you want. No, it does not mean you are a prisoner.
Capitalism is not freedom anyway. There is a reason we anarchists reject capitalism. We know better
Anarchists are their own brand of stupid.
"But me not being able to say the N word is literally infringing on my rights!" - people who scream free speech
Not even We have just enough freedom to feel free But not enough to where we have to pay to litterly live
I can't even afford van life tbh
They Have Money For War But Can't Feed The Poor
-2pac
When the rich wage war its the poor who die.
-Mike Shinoda
The poor go to war, to fight and die for the delights, riches, and superfluities of others.
-- Plutarch
CE 45 - ~CE 119
This has literally been said by people for at least two millennia.
Preach 🙏
I can't believe so many of you are upvoting a post about murdering homeless people. You monsters!
Would have been a better joke without the "all". Then the meaning is ambiguous.
Still waiting for that to happen...
Oh don't worry.
The billionaires will make sure the homeless don't exist soon enough.
Power to the people ☭
Not in the USA it isn't.
Neither party has done a damn thing to address housing scarcity, and in a few months, you're all going to vote for the same assholes who ignore it.
I think homeless people are a little less psyched about it.
Bro, billionaires can't be black! (/s omg)
*hoarding
Eat the.. poor?
I haven't read up on official human rights. Who made them? Did someone bother to ask most humans?
This is a Sunday-morning coffee post, not a detailed world-view. Feel free to ask, but refrain from shooting things down. It's not like I've spent hours on this.
How are they defined, human rights? I'd say anyone in my way to spread my genes keeps me from being a human.
As a pragmatist, I'd say breathing and eating, and perhaps warmth and caring are human rights. We can't do any of them on our own after being born, and without them some really crappy humans emerge. Breathing should be top tier. Anyone disturbing that should be under heavy focus. Can't do anything without air.
After that, once we are fairly independent, doing things to keep people keeping me from growing up and procreating should be my right.
Killing someone else would keep them from doing that, so not being killed by other humans seems like one. Killing others would disqualify me from being human, and I would give up my rights by that act. Straightforward stuff.
Mix in social structures, and it becomes complicated.
Being homeless? Build a commune somewhere. Why insist on being near that techno-tribe with internet. It's nothing but a tribe, has nothing to do with survival or being human. Having modern amenities can't be a right. Other humans invented them at some point.
Which leads to something no human should have a right to: owning land. Because owning land keeps humans from realizing their purpose and keeps them from being free to be human.
Housing is a right? That's ridiculous. That's a technological achievement from other people. So is monetary wealth. How can those be a right. If nobody came along inventing them, nobody would have them. Can't be a right. At all. That is just the consequences of capitalism and ownership of natural resources.
Housing is not a human right as humans can exist in the wild without a house.
Appeal to nature fallacy. Just because something is a certain way in nature doesn't automatically mean it's good because nature has no concept of good or bad. Living in "the wild" has a far higher mortality rate than any of us should accept today. By your logic nothing should be a human right because we can always just die if we don't have it, just as nature intended.
Also, humans originated in the African savannah, which is much warmer than the places most humans now live. And even in the savannah at the dawn of our species we were nest building animals that instinctively would make shelters for ourselves. Housing is as natural to humanity as hives are to bees.
Very well put. Thank you. :)
By that logic, nothing is a human right since you can find food, water and shelter in the wild.
The problem with that logic is that you assume everyone to be physically able and knowledgeable to live off the land.
Well, it takes some time to grow up to be able to find food and water. How long until we can walk even?
Food, water and means to provide an upbringing until offspring can care for themselves, those could be considered basic rights.
Housing is so far into the technological advancements, building up on so many other systems, I fail to see how that can be a right.
Air and food on the other hand, and sensible means to acquiring those. Well. There certainly is room for discussion. When people start owning land, keeping others to effectively do those things, they should have to provide alternatives. Or we have to abolish ownership of natural resources at all. Both can't work together. That's ineffective, of course, and makes planning and advancement difficult.
The price of capitalism and ownership of nature should be compensation. Nothing natural about social structures. If they want to continue those money games, they need to play by the rules of nature. Or they'll go down with chopped-off heads at some point.
Article 25 of the declararion of himan rights: Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family
Seriously, do you think human rights are somehow just a feeling what should be? They are written down and you can look them up.
It has also never happened, there has never been a time in all of history. And the declaration of human rights isn't broadly accepted either.
it’s illegal. the blm will come with guns and force you out. i know this for a fact. not can i just find some land and grow my food and raise animals. it’s either owned by someone or it’s govt land.
Absolutely. So instead of building up on that, declaring everyone may own something, making them mini billionaires in principle; yeah, make owning land illegal. That would be the natural conclusion.
You are basically saying: other people owning things and keeping me from building a house and a live should be illegal. Your solution: Make everyone own something, so they can build a house! Houses for everyone, hurray! But hey, my family is twice as big as yours, my house should, by right, be bigger. And hey, my farm supplies for ten families, it should, by right, be bigger. You don't want to farm, let me buy your land and provide for you. And so the circle begins.
I'd say, that thinking is what got us here in the first place.
I don't think housing should be considered a human right, unless being homeless is made illegal. But, being homeless is practically illegal everywhere, so here we are, agreeing with one another.
I try to think to myself - at what point do we call for things to be considered human rights? At what point in human history did we start considering clean water to be a human right? -- Generally once we had massive cheap, clean, unfettered access to it, right?
Companies and corporations, want their workers healthy, housed, disease free, etc. So -- if they want those things, they should be considered 'rights' and we should collect taxes on making sure those rights are distributed, shouldn't we?
I don't think housing should be considered a human right, unless being homeless is made illegal
Why not?
I edited my reply to expound upon my thoughts. But mostly it comes down to -- because houses require vast resources to build. You need people in the steel industry, wood/lumber industries, a set of housing standards, architects, etc.
Unless these things become so cheap that they're basically costless, ensuring a house for everyone free of charge is a monumentally burdensome task.
I don't think housing should be considered a human right, unless being homeless is made illegal.
Huh? I don't see how that follows.
Freedom of speech is widely regarded as a human right. But you still have the right not to express yourself.
Shelter is literally a human need. It's like, number 4 on the list after air, water, and food. Maybe before food, even. Being necessary for life should be a sufficient condition to qualify as a human right.
Speech doesn't require anything tangible though. Big difference. Same with the right to water -- it has more to do with not infringing the rights of others (by dumping waste into the water, etc) than it does actually attaining something tangible; mostly due to how widely available it is, causing it to be essentially free as well. That's why those are already codified rights basically -- because they're easy to attain and ensure.
Rights are something that the society you live in and contribute to, grants you!
There are no inherent human rights to be had! Even being alive is a happening not a right! You're born because your parents fucked, there was nothing special about it!
L.E. I see a lot of snowflakes are bothered by what I said, good. Maybe you start thinking once about what you have, instead of whining about what you would like!
Let's not forget that the only reason states exist is to serve those within them. If that state should fail to serve its people sufficiently, it's been common throughout history that they've been dismantled by the people.
You are correct about natural rights. They are fought for. Many rights, such as workers' rights, were strongly fought for and founded on blood (pretty much all of them in fact). However, when talking about rights, one remember the original meaning of the word: that which is morally good or honorable. The legal entitlement is preceded by the philosophical definition. In a just society legal rights should reflect moral rights as closely as possible.
Housing is necessary for life, and so depriving an individual of housing when housing is unutilized is equatable to murder, an injustice. This is why the post communicates that housing is a human right.
Corect, but if the state is or isn't serving those within, is a decision to be taken by the same individuals. Up to now those who are considering this are a small subset of the citizens which agrregate in underground forums and not actively trying to change the society and have a positive impact.
Housing is necessary for life but it was never a right in that society. Also necessary for life are water, clothing, food, medical assistance, etc. None of them are rights of the people within that society. It may not correct but it is what it is.
I'm starting to think most of lemmy is populated by a bunch of kids who just read Marx and have no actual world experiences cause they're 14.
Prove that OP doesn't wanna be a billionaire.
in feudal times ordinary people would have wanted to be a king or a lord, it doesn't make it right and it doesn't mean they didn't want, fought for, and died for a revolution.
EDIT: Abridged for clarity
Throughout history, plenty of people have sought out and been fine with a life of subsistence and, where possible, peace. It’s actually more telling when someone can NOT conceive of a life that’s completely soaked in foul consumption and exploitation. Not everyone would want to be a king or lord. Lots would NOT.
It's time to think beyond personal enrichment. That kind of greed got us into this mess.
