Rich Lives matter

Don’t you see? Rich people create jobs! Migrants just sit around and collect money from the hard work of everyone around them!

Oh wait, it’s the opposite isn’t it…

Best I can do is spent some of the claps I have left from the generous clapping during covid.
Migrants create jobs and rich people don’t work ?
- If you think any billionaire "worked" for the amount of money they have, you're sorely mistaken. It's a byproduct of a flawed economic system, not their "work ethic." Not to say capitalism doesn't have it's benefits, but it's the system in which capitalism is allowed to operate that produces inequalities like that.
- Yes. Considering the net loss in population and the its aging, an influx of new people generates new consumption and opportunities for market growth, and sustains socialized systems like pensions and health care, albeit over a long period.
  
  On the other hand, billionaires hoard disgusting fortunes like fucking dragons to the detriment of society at large. They thus deserve to be slayed, like we would dragons.
  
  Did you know some of the original guillotines already exist?
Tbh rich people do create jobs and migrants take those jobs usually
- The rich can only "create jobs" because we have an economic and political system that skews reward toward investment rather than labor. Both are important, but let's not pretend that anyone can earn a billions without excessive wage theft from the people doing the actual labor.
- I up voted you because you aren't wrong. At least in the sense of sweat shops. May not be good jobs, but they do technically count as jobs.
- The wealthy don’t “create” anything. Consumer demand creates jobs. Workers create the products and the value.
  
  The only thing the wealthy have is the capital, which they gain by siphoning off the excess value the laborers create.

while i understand the sentiment, it is quite novel when a submarine is lost vs when a surface ship is lost

When surface ship is declared lost that's usually because it's already became submarine.
- I laughed at this and I don't like it.
you've got to get yourself killed in a hot way to get my attention sweetie, okay? Non of that self preservation shit the poors are into
- Have you tried live streaming your drowning? Maybe that would get more attention from folks. Gotta pull yourself up by them booty straps!
- How many times do you hear about a submarine going missing though?
@snipe_at that's no reason to spend my tax money on it.
- Oh no, 1% of my paycheck is going toward efforts to save lives

It's because those billionaires are down there boosting the economy and creating jobs... for search and rescue teams.

I'm honestly thankful for the educational content that has come out of this. I'd always known that I didn't want to cram myself into a tiny, pressurized soup can, but now I can point to the exact reasons why.
- Especially one built by a guy who scoffs at safety protocols

Overheard:

"They paid for the full Titanic experience and that's what they got. What's the problem?"

Full experience? I see no damn ice berg anywhere! I'd want my money back.

That's not really comparable. When any citizen of a country gets lost either at sea or on land, large probably also multi million dollar searches are performed.

The difference is more to do with whether they're immigrants or natives.

But it is also absurd that we, on one hand, agree that all human lives have equal worth.. and on the other straight up consider a citicizen to be worth more than 1000 non-citizens.

I don't know how one can possibly argue that it is humane and in line with what we say our values are.
- I think it also has to do with the fact they're illegally crossing. If an American or a Filipino got lost in Europe they'd still search for them. Hell, every year here in Croatia we have to rescue Czechs who climb up mountains in flip flops.
  I guess the reason is that what they're doing is illegal, and you don't have enough resources to track and save every single migrant ship.
  I mean, I don't remember hearing Frontex or national coast guards completely ignoring sinking ships, they often try to save them from what I know, they just don't have as many resources.
  
  But I do think rescue capabilities could be improved. I don't know how hard it is, but I feel like with modern technology, setting up radar combined with satellite imagery shouldn't be that hard. Ships stick out of the water a lot, so tracking the ships that are out of place shouldn't be too hard.
  
  Regarding immigration, once I believed we should take in all refugees, but now I've come to realise that it's more complicated. Untill we figure out how to properly assimilate them into society, it will only lead to problems and disappointment on both sides. If immigrants huddle up into segregated communities they won't assimilate, they'll be poor, and that's the source of all conflict. I don't believe they're any different from us, nor that their cultures are completely incompatible, but if they become segregated they will be ostracized from society, they'll be poor and resent society for shunning them. They came to this land from so far away, hearing promises of how great it is, and then they live worse than they did back home. That leads to crime, more resentment and racism, leading to them having an even harder time. It's a brutal cycle.
Small correction, it has to do with whether they're citizens or not.

But being a billionaire also helps.
- Non-citizen lives don't matter? Do you ever check someone's passport before saving them from drowning? Ridiculous.
And the fact that these responses are from two completely different countries and continents. Unless you're talking about the media response, which OP has specifically said he's not. He's more concerned about having to pay taxes.

If you're not talking about media response then the whole conversation is pointless. It's not "hypocrisy" that Canada and the US responded differently from Greece to a crisis next to their waters
- Are you asserting that the US wouldn't do this, or is this just for deflection's sake?
The difference is more to do with whether they're immigrants or natives.

So migrant lives not mattering to people like you is true. Good to know you at least confirm that part of the meme. Disgusting.
- Hold on a moment. They didn't say that they didn't care about the lives. They were stating the viewpoint of the governments that send out the S&R.

It's easy to polarize with such a headline/picture. Reality is way more nuanced than this:

Migrants are in fact being saved from shipwrecks, it is (sadly) in the news every week or so. The main problem is that these migrants don't have communication devices with them to signal emergencies, unlike the submarine. The boat on the surface alarmed emergency services when they lost connection with the sub, starting the rescue operation. It is difficult to rescue a boat of migrants, when you don't even know that they are in danger in the first place.

Secondly, the harsh reality is that most migrants try to enter a country illegally. Which by definition, is a huge risk on their part. The rich people on the sub were not doing anything illegal. However, in both cases, the people in or on the boat accepted the risks involved in their endeavor.

@Ronno the problem is making the natural human right of migration illegal in the first place.
- How are you going to continue to enforce gun control in your country if there are zero borders?
Fellas, should we just be killing folks that are in the wrong place?

I do like things tidy, but is human life actually worth anything?
Secondly, the harsh reality is that most migrants try to enter a country illegally

Great. Doesn't mean you get to just outright murder them.

If these dumbasses have enough money to drop on a ticket aboard this sub to look at something you can see on a documentary, they should also have to foot the bill for the rescue mission. I'm sure all these rescue programs are tax funded that they dodge themselves. So, not only are they squirreling and eating up money we could all be using, but now we're picking up the check.

I'm out of the loop on this one. What happened?

Rich dude created a company that provides submarine tours of the titanic wreckage, except he built it and operated it stupidly (off the shelf "camping" parts, bad weather conditions). Now he's trapped in the submarine with like 4 other folks where no one knows where they are, and they are expected to run out of oxygen in like 12 hours from posting this.

Super tragic but like, totally avoidable.
- I am impressed that he got these people to pay him for a ride in his janky submarine. I bet that each „ticket“ costs more than the whole submarine.
- https://titanaircheck.com/
- Those billionaires are obviously focused on taking as much money as possible for themselves, so... I don't feel a lot of sympathy for them. In fact, maybe it's a fitting end that all their money can't save them.
- Update: They found some debree that indicates implosion. They are dead for sure now.
A bunch of super wealthy dudes (including a bloke who went to space with Mr. Amazon and two members of one of Pakistan's biggest petrochemical families) got into an obvious death trap after signing a waiver that said that there's a decent chance that it'd kill them and now that it's gone missing multiple governments are spending millions of dollars on an attempt to rescue them on the off chance that they're actually still alive because the lives of the wealthy matter more than the lives of normal people.
- Or maybe it has to do more with the region in which they're lost. The USCG is typically very good about aiding anyone within their AOR, no matter their socioeconomic class. This should be framed more as "why isn't Europe/Greece doing their jobs" than "why are the USCG/Canada actually doing their jobs".
Some rich people got put into a submersible where the glass hatch is bolted to the vehicle. The pilot then proceeds to turn on the Xbox controller to activate the vehicle. None of these rich people thought they should ask if the vehicle had and safety precautions, or perhaps a fucking steering wheel. The media has gone nuts over this story. Like "balloon boy" nuts.
- @jeebus @LoreleiSankTheShip the "Xbox Controller" concern is a little bit of a media boogeyman. Similar controllers are used for military vehicles too.
- Using a controller to steer a sub is normal.
- Xbox controller is not the problem. The most expensive part of the whole thing is what failed.

Maybe they're afraid of the families of the rich suing them /shrug

Since the CEO went down with his s̶h̶i̶p̶ sub, the lawyers will have to get creative.
The passengers signed a waiver to confirm their knowledge that the submarine is an "experimental" vessel "that has not been approved or certified by any regulatory body, and could result in physical injury, disability, emotional trauma or death."

https://web.archive.org/web/20230619230915/https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65934887
- Damn that's pretty bad
Could just claim they're looking for them while not actually giving a shit
pretty sure this company is fucked

Nobody cares that they are millionaires!
You think the coastguard is only helping them because they are millionaires? No they are trying to help because it's their job!

I guess all those miners getting stuck in mines during collapses and millions of equipment was shipped over to try and save them over weeks of time was because the miners were all millionaires.

You have a fucked up view of the world if you think only millionaires get helped in emergency situations.

Well, you know. In this particular case the Coastal Guard did not do their job. That's what gets the uproar.
If you go up a mountain to poke tigers, and a tiger shockingly eats you, should society drop everything and race up the mountain to find your pieces? It's disingenuous to equate this to the miners.
@HelloImFrank having spent 4 years in the U.S. Coast Guard, I can tell you that you are incorrect.
- Cool, please tell us more how you refused to save people based on their income.

Think about it. If we just imprisoned all rich people, they didn't have to be rescued from their shitty, expensive vacation trips.

That's just the start my dude. Once we disregard insignificant values like human rights and personal freedom, solving the issue of other people making problematic choices becomes trivial.

Imagine all the crime we would prevent if we just locked up anyone who earns less than say 50k euros.

The US federal government values the average citizen's life at something like ~$12 million. This is mostly for policy like if 1,000 people a year die from something, say an unsafe ferris wheel design, a solution that would save them costing more than (1,000*12,000,000=)$12 billion would be rejected and considered not worth the economic cost. If the solution were cheaper, and cost like $500 million, then with good lobbying and a reasonable administration, it could easily become a new regulation.

Generally speaking if 5 anybodies went down like this submersible, you'd expect at least some millions to be spent in recovery missions.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2020/07/17/870483369/your-life-is-worth-10-million-according-to-the-government

The ~$12 million figure is what the NHTSA is currently using for its purposes.

average citizen's life

That's the problem, we allow our governments to treat people differently based on where they happen to have been born.

This is gonna be turned into a movie so fast...in fact I bet the rights are already been sold to a studio.

But silver lining, we now know we can get the rich to take care of themselves if we offer them sketchy exploration opportunities too exclusive for the poors

Problem is the choices are;

A) seeing migrants die en masse makes people feel bad and helpless and weak.

B) Allowing people to say “stupid dumbass billionaires” makes people feel like they are better than some stupid dumbass billionaires.

It was always going to be B. Most times the media just goes where we demand it goes. If you want to complain about why the media is so shit -blame all of us.

Yeah, it's like anything else under capitalism, if you're willing to partake in whatever it is you don't like you're just a part of the problem.

Bad products, bad media, it's all the same. Don't consume if you want change. The fediverse' success in the last week shows that people banding together to refuse bullshit can actually make things happen.
@Col3814444 for me its certainly not about media, it's about government spending.

i kinda wish the rich people had to deal with the pooping situation

oof

what happend to the 5 rich men?

They got pulverized

Apparently there's been a "compress the rich" hashtag going around.

Though That 19 year old didn't want any part in this, was scared of the whole thing, and only went to appease his father
- Feel sorry for the kid. Didn't deserve it when he was just trying to make his dad happy
- I am also fine with expanding them e.g. in space.

Yes. Rich lives matter and F the poor.

This is pinnacle of cringe.

Everything's gotta be a political statement to these people, I guess they have little to strive for otherwise.

I know this could be controversial, but in some countries immigration is quite a problem, there isn't enough work for everyone and the crime just gets higher an higher plus they do it illegally, not quite the same even though I get y'all sentiment

It's not controversial, it's just wrong. Immigration never takes jobs away, it always allows to create more jobs by inflating the local economy. Miami absorbed Cuban migrants after Mariel, and went richer. It has been widely studied now: immigrants took first low paying jobs that were understaffed, it injected more money in the local economy and it allowed spouses who were not working because they were doing the low paying jobs for free (nannying for instance) to get back to high paying jobs, it injects more money... Same in Germany with Syrian intake
- It isn't always true tho it is true for developed countries with low birth rates. For many developing countries immigrants taking low level jobs is a negative because there isn't enough high level jobs. And I am saying this as someone who is supportive of immigration
- It doesn't always work out man, I live it in first person, they don't integrate don't work because we need every last job we have and distrust public peace
there isn't enough work for everyone

Immigrants induce demand for goods and services just like anyone else, thus the jobs to render those goods and services.

the crime just gets higher and higher

Technically depends on the country but this is usually false.

plus they do it illegally

Law is not morality. Perhaps it shouldn't be illegal.
- I always hated the legal argument. No landmass was ever historically conquered /populated / taken over / whatever through "legal immigration" except by indigenous peoples of those lands. These immigrants are trying to find better lives for themselves and their families and it's horrible that people refuse to show any empathy for their struggles or dreams
- I'm just not going to talk to someone who thinks he's morally superior just because he will never admit he's wrong even if he is plus you don't know our situation
- Immigrants induce demand for goods and services, thus jobs
  
  Except when the highest demand is for land. So they end up illegally occupying land, often government-maintained land that it usually allocates to agricultural projects.
  
  Perhaps it shouldn't be illegal
  
  If you're a third world country with a dense population and the population overflow is coming from an even more densely populated country that seems to have no motive to control it, then it damn right should be illegal. I'm not sacrificing my demographic if you can't take any right steps to regulate yours.

Migrants shouldn't go to europe in first place.

I'm thanking god (like ateist) every day that I'm not living in that part of europe where is raping, murdering, gang wars daily business.

And why are they migrating, I wonder. If only there were reasons other than purely economic ones, like war, lack of stability, extreme droughts and other fucked up things we tend to think of while considering third world countries - many of them destabilized forever by the western nations.

The thing is, we're both lucky, my Czech friend. They were not. What are they supposed to do? Die there, just because the richest and most privileged place in the world is too good to help out?
- Muti Merkel and her 'Wir schafen das' promised them free money.
  
  They came here for free money. Not for european culture and values.
  
  Germans / French women and girls are raped every week by migrants.
  Knife attacks are common business in Germany / France.
  Sweden is admitting that they can't handle gang wars made by migrants.
  
  Europe is getting to destroy by migrants because they don't give fuck about europe.
  
  Peace, love for everyone is one big fairy tale. World / nature / universe doesn't work like it.
  
  Move out of europe if you hate europe.
Least racist euro
- You don't live what we live so I don't think you can understand
For everyone who's giving me thumb down - https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp?title=2023&region=150
- @tomve_cz the only reason we have crime is because politicians keep making things illegal.
- You mean rich white people make laws to criminalize the normal behavior of minorities? :shocked_pikachu:
- Poor people commit crime - it’s a breakthrough!
- that's literally a willie horthon argument