It's been bizarre some of my interactions with group A and B. I've been active in leftist circles for most of my time on the internet. I definitely get and agree with a lot of the criticisms with the US, NATO, and the EU, but I don't get how so many people think the Russian or Chinese government are any more righteous, especially considering the human rights violations and encroachments on sovereignty we've seen from both countries. Not just in their past either, but within the last decade!
The situation kinda feels like how Japan justified its imperialism to the outside world during the Invasion of China, South Asia, and the Pacific. Their official stance was they were aiming to rid Asia of Western imperialism and replace it with a sphere of co-prosperity, Despite this message however, they were absolutely brutal to the lands they occupied. The murdered and raped indiscriminately, and those they kept alive they enslaved and worked to death in brutal conditions. No sane person today who knows the extent of their harm would ever defend them as a power, even if their supposed message was "anti-imperialism."
You can oppose western imperialism, US hegemony, and capitalism without siding with other imperialists, fascists, and psuedo-communists. The actions of a country should speak for them, not the messages their propaganda tries to make you believe. Considering what I know from Russia's Soviet legacy with Eastern Europe, the actions they took against Chechnya and Georgia, their local treatment of dissidents, the brutal persecution of queer people that makes Florida look tame, the war crimes and human rights violations committed in Syria and Africa by Wagner, and the bombing, killing, raping, and kidnapping of civilians in Ukraine. I don't see how anyone could defend them or their actions. I know the US is guilty most of it through out its history too, but you shouldn't oppose a monster by supporting another monster.
I tried explaining this to some tankies but instead I got banned from the community before I could finish my point.
I posted on lemmy.ml calling out tankies as terrible human beings. Pointed out the term was coined by communists disgusted at their fellows cheering on the Soviet's brutal oppression of other communists. Said tankies don't deserve the title of "communist", because at its core the ideals of communism are equity and human dignity. Called Marx "flawed and written for a world that existed 175 years ago".
They did not like that at all.
I think that at least some of it is a knee-jerk reaction to the narrative that is pushed. There is no analysis, no debate, at the moment NATO is sold like some kind of NGO, countries that until yesterday were bombing others with zero concerns today are standing in (justified) horrors for the Russian war crimes, like if we discovered war in 2022. For some, this narrative is simply unacceptable, even if it ends up in the right place (i.e., supporting Ukraine in defending itself from an imperialist nation). The problem comes with the NAFO-fellows and the likes, where immediately as soon as you say anything to bring up these very contradictions, you are a genocide denier/enabler/supporter.
I am sure that for others is a matter of countering the US, or the mainstream media or whatever, though.
There are waaaaay too many E's on Lemmy.
When I first opened Lemmy and saw the very first post was a leftist post complaining about Neoliberals, I knew what I was about to get myself into with this place.
Yeah it's the one thing putting me off the platform. Like I'd describe myself as pretty hard left, and a pacifist. But Russia is a fascist state performing an unprovoked attack on a neighbouring nation. Just because many NATO nations have right wing problems (and tbh I feel a lot of people on the left haven't heard the expression "don't make the good the enemy of the perfect" - shit is bad in the West but it's nothing compared to life in Russia) doesn't undo that fact and Ukraine has the right to defend itself and it's right that we support that.
The fact that some may consider NATO's support to be hypocritical given the middle East doesn't mean it's wrong.
100%, my man. Ukraine is a sovereign state defending itself from an unprovoked attack.
If my neighbour was getting attacked, I'd help them too, out of common decency, and common sense to keep the neighbourhood safe.
The fact that some may consider NATO’s support to be hypocritical given the middle East doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
Yeah that's the weirdest line of thinking of seen on this. "If we aren't always the ones doing evil things then we're being hypocritical!" Like we should never do the right thing because occasionally being on the right side is worse than being hypocritical? Or maybe it's that doing something wrong in the past means you should never try to do the right thing? Or maybe if someone has done something wrong in the past it's simply not possible for them to ever do something that's right? What is the logic here?
It's really astounding. But to cheer you up, enjoy some supremely based ancoms
Just because Russia is wrong doesn't make supporting Ukraine right. The only reasons US turned on the money tap for Ukraine is so that is can be funneled through Lockheed Martin & Co, essentially injecting cash straight into the MIC pulsing veins.
Hundreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and Russians be damned- shareholder value is going up.
Now it doesn't take much imagination to think of scenarios where the money tap turns off - just let Trump win next year and watch him speed run turning it off - and then what? What if Ukraine ends up being overrun anyway by Russia?
What was the point of all the dead young men? For a territory that is primarily ethnic Russians who primarily speak Russian. For a territory like Crimea who has been part of Russia proper for hundreds of years until handed over arbitrarily by a premier in the 1950s.
You want me to be honest? I don't give a shit which corrupt Eastern European government is the legitimate sovereign over Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. Russia or Ukraine, makes zero difference to me. Not worth potential nuclear war. Not worth dangerous global inflation. Not worth pushing Russia away from Europe and towards China.
We are making a big mistake which everyone will pretend is "obvious" like Iraq 20 years ago. Of course jingoists can't see anything other than war in front of their noses. Anything else seems almost absurd
I've seen too many As myself
They're A-D masquerading because it has some plausible deniability.
Most of type E. "Peacelink" are actually type C. "Right Wing" in disguise. Conservatives are inherently drawn to conspiracy theories
- The Protocols of the Elders of Zion
- Great replacement
- and now Nato "Bioweapons Labs" theory.
- Donald Trump was the most Anti Nato president the US. ever had.
- Hungarian conservative Orban tells us Ukrainian people can not win the war
The most popular conspiracy theories are right wing ones. But conservatives arn't exclusively drawn to them. Political brainrot has no political affiliation.
Propaganda is terrible at telling you how to think. But it is very good at telling you what to think about
Also A's, B's, and D's.
And c and d. They're all the same people on lemmy
There are way too many on the planet I guess
Oh look, the post is overrun by genocide apologists!
This is a biased piece of pseudo intellectual misinformation. Communists don't defend Russia and "lefty" (couldn't you be more obvious in your bias if you tried) antifascists do not assume whole nations are fascist at all - clearly they attack fascists in their own countries without attacking everyone.
This is just dumb centrist shit masquerading as discourse.
This post isn't about categories of leftists or communists, it's about categories of genocide apologists. Most communists do not defend Russia (I hope) but among those who defend Russia, some claim to be communist.
I mean can you even call yourself a communism if you dont defend genocide? Cant have communist utopia without it.
Not all communists, geez
But some are definitely doing this. If you haven't encountered them, consider yourself lucky
If you haven’t encountered them
Good god, the tankies are insufferable edgy memelords on the fediverse
Do you really need someone to remind you of how Set theory works?
Just see my last comment in the sea of tankies. All these stereotypes are real and people like that live and breathe.
How did it say that all communists are like this? You're just assuming things and getting mad over it.
Do you know what sub this is?
EDIT: for those downvoting me, I would be happy to engage in a civil discussion about why you think I’m wrong, and even change my mind if I’m mistaken.
This is extremely dumb for a number of reasons, not least of which is that it’s very clearly written with a certain bias.
A (the communist) is describing a tankie. But generally someone who identifies specifically as a communist is not authoritarian, they’re closer to anarchocommunism than the reverse.
B (the lefty antifascist) describes them as a subtype of A, but antifascists are diametrically opposed to tankies, ideologically. Also, “antifascist” is a word that has long been used to label a specific group of leftists… calling them “lefty antifascists” implies that there are also “right-wing antifascists,” trying to equivocate the sides by generalizing the word. Also, most importantly, the description is 100% bullshit.
C (the hard right) a single token addition of a very generic “hard” right person, to appear balanced. No making fun of this person like in the rest of the descriptions, just a list of facts… except “always an arsehole” which I would argue most of these people would enjoy reading about themselves because they would think it was funny and kind of true. Clearly the target audience.
D (the contrarian) this is the modern right wing lowest common denominator person, and an accurate description of the archetype, but no mention of left/right in this description. Wonder why?
E (the peacenik) what? Peacenik is just another historically left-wing-associated label. These people do not have a unified view of how to end the conflict, and certainly don’t frequently suggest ceding land to an invader. That’s a really stupid take on pacifism, and it’s just another dig at the left.
This is definitely dumb and probably just plain old propaganda.
I assuming you mean the post was written from a right wing perspective correct?(that's what I got from your post at least)
I think it's written more from a well meaning liberal perspective. Probably doesn't understand the labels they're using, or at the very least oversimplifying people so that they crunch into the parameters they have created.
A They probably do mean tanky, and I myself have made this association in error. After all "Tanky" in the way it is used now is not as well known as the word communist, and many people who are tankies do describe themselves as communists.
B I've met people like these myself. One of my friends was in this camp until recently. Many of these people still look at Ukraine as it was pre Maidan, and don't realize the majority of people within the country don't support the fascist elements within. Plus there is Russian prop specifically aimed at hitting antifascists. They sold the initial invasion as a "denazification". If you are just listening to the words spoken by the leaders, and not seeing the atrocities the Russians are committing in Ukraine, I can see how one could fall for it.
C Describes a lot of the people in my part of the US actually, though, not all of them support Russia fighting in Ukraine. Rather they are more of a combination of this and E, where they want to get back to admiring Russia without dealing with the cognitive dissonance of Russia committing warcrimes in Ukraine, and also getting their ass handed to them.
D This used to be me until maybe 2014, and God knows where I would be today if I still acted this way. Basically anything that was considered "bad" of "forbidden", I wanted in. The upside is this is what led me into reading the Communist Manifesto, the Quran, and other "forbidden" materials that led me out of my close minded conservatism, but on the otherhand, I also read Mein Kampf, gave the BotD to many fascist and conferderate leaning people, and followed a lot of Russian news uncritically, and even had a Soviet idolization phase of my own. A lot of my mindset at the time was this really weird form of libertarianism combined with unbridled contrarianism.
E I feel this can include a lot of people from any perspective. Leftists who think appose NATO more than Russia's imperialism, Rightist who see the writing on the wall, and think the war should end while Russia is still ahead, to people who associate the increase in costs of living with the war, and simply want it to end no matter what ASAP for their own sake. I feel this could be expanded into several catagories, but then again, everything here is a severe oversimplification.
So are there flaws with this post: absolutely, but I don't think it was written in bad faith.
I can understand your viewpoint, but I don’t agree with it. I think you’re missing the signs that this was written to promote a right-wing narrative about leftists.
You say you think it’s written by a “well-meaning liberal perspective,” but none of the things you mention point to it being a liberal’s perspective, except for the implication that you are a well-meaning liberal and thus you identify with it. Coming from a liberal who interacts with mostly liberal people, and who has been friends with people on the left and right and talked philosophy with both: A, B, and E are just not written from the normal perspective of a left-leaning person.
By your explanation, you clearly understand the C and D roles best, which are the right-wing descriptions. Could it be that you are projecting a liberal perspective on something that is clearly a right-wing narrative because you are used to seeing this narrative, despite identifying as a liberal now?
I think it's written more from a well meaning liberal perspective.
You do realize that makes it a right wing perspective right? When will Americans finally figure out that liberals are right wing in the rest of world?
calling them “lefty antifascists” implies that there are also “right-wing antifascists,”
If an antifascist is anyone who opposes fascism, then why couldn't there be right-wing antifascists?
I downvoted you because I don't think you are being objective and instead are bringing your own prejudices and preconceptions to your analysis. Basically you are guilty of the same kinds of bias that you accuse OP of.
Of course I’m biased. Everyone is. But am I wrong? My accusation was not that OP is biased, but that the meme itself was trying to secretly promote a right-wing narrative. I understand if you don’t trust me as a biased observer, but you can still read my points and decide whether they are factually correct or not.
If you think I’ve made an error, feel free to respond with a correction. I’m not here to flame anyone, just to point out that I see a vehicle for disinformation. I respect many philosophies on both the left and the right, even if I disagree with them, but regardless of “sides” everyone deserves to make informed decisions arrived at by their own reasoning. When you are manipulated without your knowledge, your ability to reason properly is taken away from you.
Communism of any kind is inherently authoritarian. There's no way around it.
If you have not studied communism, and your main contact with communism is tankies on Lemmy and “communist” dictatorships in history, then I understand why you would think that.
But communists by and large are not tankies, and do not wish for states like the USSR, China, or North Korea. Those people typically identify as Marxist-Leninists (promoted mainly by Stalin after Lenin died), and yep they’re authoritarian, and they’re loud. And, despite the name, Marx himself would disapprove of this ideology for a number of reasons.
Read even just the first paragraph of the Wikipedia articles on ”Communism” and “Communist society.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism
A communist society would entail the absence of private property and social classes, and ultimately money and the state (or nation state).
Communists want no state; it is effectively a type of anarchist or radically democratic ideology, where the citizens all equally share power through common ownership of industry… the very opposite of authoritarianism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_society
A communist society is characterized by common ownership of the means of production with free access to the articles of consumption and is classless, stateless, and moneyless, implying the end of the exploitation of labour.
The term communist society should be distinguished from the Western concept of the communist state, the latter referring to a state ruled by a party which professes a variation of Marxism–Leninism.
Communism is not an authoritarian philosophy. If you go talk to people in real life who identify as communists, you will tend to find communists as described in these articles. If you look on lemmy.ml, however, you’ll find lots of Marxist-Leninists (tankies) because that’s who the instance was made by… but that’s not really representative of communism as a whole, and many communists find that philosophy repulsive.
Look i cringe and ROFL as much as the next guy when some dumbass tankie comes defending tyranical goverments and calling one racist just for critcising the ccp, but this meme is idiotic, since its deffinetly made targeting those dumbasses and made with the intend to roundup both us vs them just to generate fighting, and is kinda indulging in what it bashes, not that theres anything possitive to take away from tankies and its not like we are gonna change their mind if we repeatedly scream to them tianamen square massacre, but rounding up people just to shittalk those idiots is very suspisous and i cant stop but feeling that whe are being manipulated.
This may seem a tangent, but bear with me. You make an interesting point. Your view should be considered.
You look deeper into the mentality us vs them behind this meme. You identify that as a possible strategy to keep people apart. That is something worthwhile considering.
Now, problem is your post is hard to parse. You have what amounts to a whole paragraph with only one period. My suggestion: break information into small chunks. That greatly helps your readers. It allows them to become more engaged with your content.
Now, leaving that aside. Thanks for trying to reason through this shallow us-them mentality.
What a lovely comment. Thank you for thoughtfully and politely making the internet a better place.
holodomor denial vs. holocaust denial
NAFO is a Nazi propaganda op. Literally. The founder, Kamil Dyszewski (aka Kama Kamelia) is a Holocaust denier who adores Hitler. I call this the SS type genocide denier. That's actually the most common type.
In case anyone thinks the rest of NAFO distanced themselves from this guy: Lol no, he was just on stage at the NAFO summit in Vilnius.
There are also many People that identify with the names of group a,b,c that oppose Russia. There are for example Antifa Groups fighting against Russia. If I would guess the percentage of People that identify with the names of group a,b,c that oppose Russia could be roughly as follows: A 75% B 95% C 35% Just numbers I made up.
I don't think the labels are meant to be all-encompassing - all of the categories have significant amounts of Ukrainian supporters. Most self-identified antifa, I would say, would be Ukrainian supporters, as would most self-identified communists who aren't tankies. It's more "Genocide apologist + [A,B,C,D,E] most likely means this".
Yes. This image is claiming that some people who support Russia/oppose Ukraine self-identity as anti-fascists and argue their point from that perspective. Not that those people represent everyone who would identify as anti-fascist nor the majority view of anti-fascists.
- Trump in the US about Putin:
"I'd say that's pretty smart. He's taking over a country -- really avast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people, and just walking right in." "Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine -- of Ukraine. Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that's wonderful."
So Donald J. Trump i type C. ? Hard right? I would say Trump is not "hard" right, he is the leader of the right wing in general of all conservatives. He represents their interest best. And all conservatives in Europe think the same way as Trump:
- Afd in Germany:
Kotré describes Ukraine as a US staging ground to destabilize Russia, adding: "And when we talk about that, we also have to talk about the bioweapons laboratories that are aimed at Russia.
He seems to be Category E, but I say he is also C.
- Le Pen in France: Of meeting the Russian president in 2017, she replied: “The Vladimir Putin of five years ago is not exactly that of today, ... okay war in Georgia in 2008 was not the same? She wants to find a european solution and does not want the US to help Ukraine, basically corruptly Pro Russia behind the scenes like Trump.
People do not seem to realize how hard the right wing is betting on the destruction of Ukraine. They can use the same to eradicate the "social democrats" in their own countries as Putin did with Navalny. Use it to justify Authoritarianism at home.
As a European, I consider Trump hard right, as I do the AFD aswell. Just because it's become more mainstream doesn't mean it's no longer hard imo
AfD is prime "Do it again, Bomber Harris" material.
The Overton window is a beautiful thing.
So Donald J. Trump i type C. ?
Yes he is. Attracted to the racist sexist Russian Military culture.
And sure Trump is mostly just a narcissist that doesn't have any real ideological thinking. Mostly he's just going along with whatever will make his supporters adore him. But he's all about the racism and sexism, and these are used in fascist propaganda. Given Trump actually is these things, this propaganda is all the more effective. "He tells it like it is!"
But even if Trump himself is just a racist misogynistic asshole that's not intentionally creating a fascist movement, his personality traits have created a fascist movement whether Trump himself intended that to happen or not.
Antifascists don't think that. OP is too cool for any of these groups being mocked, I'm sure.
Communists don't defend Russia
Communists shouldn't defend the Russian Federation. Yet for inexplicable reasons, many self-proclaimed communists online do so. Typically they're tankies with all sorts of other problematic opinions.
I have literally never seen it.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it doesn't happen in the places I frequent - and I frequent a LOT of Leftist communities.
Edit: People are pointing to the Tankies Lemmy community. The place designed for tankies. I'm not arguing they don't exist. I'm aruing against the people saying they're all over the place and pervasive in other communities and that they're not a commonality and not the usual communist/socialist.
Pointing to the Tankies communities doesn't change anything I've said.
Judging by the number of Lemmygrad users spewing their regurgitated kremlin propaganda all over the place i'd say you should reconsider your position
Has your instance defederated from lemmygrad? Otherwise you wouldn't make such claims.
Only fascists with a red aesthetic - Tankies, if you will.
F - The Hungarian fascist:
Subtype of the C type. Likes the fact, that Russia is genociding Ukrainians, and calling the Ukrainian people a "Leninist fabrication". The Hungarian far-right has a similar feeling toward Slovaks, often calling them "Hungarians forced to learn Slavic", their country "fake" and "illegitimate", and wish they could also do a special military operation on them.
Fake “Communist” losers
We gotta post this all over lemmygrad, fellas
Yes. And there are many people that fall into multiple categories. And some that switch between them.
Seems there's people that just like genocide and then construct some rationalizations to justify it in their own minds.
Wow I wonder if the OP is a right winger.
Also you need to be so far incredibly detached from reality if you think antifa is an actual thing.
Yup, OP's first post after this is a pronouns meme.
Also you need to be so far incredibly detached from reality if you think antifa is an actual thing.
I agree with the rest of your post, but i'm a bit confused by this comment. Are you saying antifa doesn't exist?
It's like 2 guys. It's extremely exaggerated by right wingers so they have something to straw man.
...do antifascists know?
I'm type "G": seeing "Ï" in Cyrillic text confuses and alarms me.
Inflammatory troll bait.
You are troll type Ruby:
Ruby: Shoots at all sides with a right-wing bend trying to maximize engagement. Purposefully mislabels people and accuses them of atrocities.
Aren't the last three all kind of the same? Especially C and D
they are both shitty rationalizations, but the root belief behind them is different, and the method to get them to shut up is different.
Same in the sense that they're all batshit crazy at least. I've definitely seen the difference between the three IRL. Admittedly, could just be stages of the mask slipping too lol
Excellent poster! Now I can pinpoint my opponents during internet battles!
Hrm uh... I would describe myself as a leftist antifascist.
And I do not think that elements of fascism within Ukraine's society and government make it somehow deserving of being invaded, absorbed into Russia, having their culture erased, and worse.
Getting more technical, maybe the term anarcho-communist is i think actually accurate, but then you end up with less politically informed people assuming I am the worst thing imaginable, a violent anarchist terrorist that wants to violently overthrow every government and replace it with nothing, while simultaneously /also/ being an authoritarian who believes in a vanguard party, no dissent allowed an oh money and property are not allowed to exist any more.
Then on the other hand you could say maybe social libertarian, but you run into the same problem woth the other terms: Every American thinks Libertarian = AnCap, and 'social' as a prefix denotes basically 'communism lite' to most Americans.
What I actually am is a person who believes in the right to privacy in personal matters, freedom of speech as in the ability to say unpopular things and be judged by people individually and by groups collectively, but not at the point of a goon squad with guns or the ability to imprison or impoverish you preventing you from criticizing an existing power structure, be it government, corporate, religious or otherwise.
I believe in protecting the oppressed, providing a reasonable standard of living, education amd medical care for all, that people should genuinely, directly care and help their neighbors (not indirectly by donating to some incredibly inefficient charity, and especially not by hypocritically acting extremely concerned about whatever issue but not actually /doing/ anything /useful/ about it).
I believe that American society is far too individualistic and selfish, that worker co ops with a democratic governance structure are a far superior way to organize economic production than the authoritarian private business model that defines social relations within especially large corporations, but even most medium and small business enterprises I have ever been a part of as well.
And I also do my best to temper these beliefs with realism, knowing that these things are an idea of a better world to strive for, in a world that is brutally unfair, difficult to predict, and is full of many, many others who disagree.
You might even say that even when societies are organized into nation states, even when employees are organized into corporations, or adherents organized into religions, at a bigger picture level they all compete with each other in a rather stereotypically anarchic way, often violating the 'rules' that are supposed to govern their interactions, and nearly always employing every method possible to bend those rules, break those rules and get away with it, and to be the ones making those rules.
I can, and did, easily fit in to all the chapo themed sub-lemmies, it is very easy to joke about the hypocrisy of American domestic politics and economic practices.
But they never talk about the Ukraine Russia conflict.
Sure, they all agree that Israel is doing a genocide, which is my opinion as well.
But you cannot be critical of China. I barely mentioned that /maybe/ if Taiwan wants to be independent, that a flawed democracy exerting its will to self determine should not just de facto be waived away by the geo strategic situation, and they all got extremely edgelord extremely quickly.
Eventually the topic turned to surveillance and freedom of speech, and they basically all entirely believed that China has no problems with that at all.
Delusional.
Its actually very confusing to me that online Chapo fan communities are seemingly all Marxist-Leninists, or Maoists, or even more confusingly to me think that the Chinese government and societt even is communist, when they are so obviously state capitalists (red fascists, as many here seem to say).
The Chapo podcast almost never touches on foreign policy beyond making fun of how absurd many American foreign policy decisions are and how poorly informes most Americans are about other societies.
Anyway this is a long post but here is more kindling for this thread:
I am a lefty antifascist, but I don't believe that Ukraine's right to self determine democratically should be overridden by the Russian state.
And though I believe that war itself is a crime... I do not see how any reasonable person can think that Ukraine should just lie down and give up.
Oh my. This one is trash. Like I can't believe someone made this with a straight face, trash.
Communists are not tankies. Who agrees with this garbage post?
Edit: Downvote me if you must, but tankies are about as communist as Nazis are socialists.
I think we should stear clear from this one, op seems to be wanting to start a fight between those dumbass tankies and everyone else.
This post was made in bad faith and is just grouping us in a us vs them kinda way, and seems that its starting to get boted too so its a lost cause by now.
Disengage now and just watch the fireworks from a safe distance so that you dont get burned.
I agree with you, I just feel like it needs to be said. By everyone.
Nazis ARE socialists! Always were.
F. The CIA operative that posts all day about how the west are the glorious saviors of the world and that everyone who disagrees with them is a "tankie" or "genocide apologist" or some other label. There is no room for nuance for these clowns, all geopolitical issues are cartoonish good vs evil narratives.
Jesus , cringe far-right propaganda
at least half those archeotypes are typical among the far right though
Did you steal this from your grandma on Facebook?
Based NAFO grandma
Is this supposed to be sarcasm? No communist thinks Russia is Soviet.
Nope and they theoretically disapprove.
On the other hand they praise Putin for leading the fight against the liberal west and choose to see the Ukrainian war in that perspective, fully drinking the Kremlin cool aid.
Oh shit, he pulled out the logical fallacies to win an internet debate
They don't think it but their actions are saying the opposite. Otherwise a tankie like Edy Ongaro wouldn't have traveled 1000 km to go die in Donbass trying to help Russian kill the bad fascist Ukrainians
Or another tankie like Jorit would have understood the irony of painting a murales "against the Ukrainian atrocities" on a residential complex destroyed by the Russian army
I'm E type
Then you're in the wrong community, Muscovite
😘
Why exactly? I'm not here to attack you, just understand, and possibly change your mind if you're willing? I noticed from your previous posts that you speak Russian, so I'm assuming you are Russian correct? I'm more curious your perspective than anything, and what you've been hearing about the war. We can carry this to dms if you're more discussing there.
The Swedish eurodance musician?
It’s a “nato proxy war”?
Maybe we should describe the war in a way that blames the invaders?
It’s a CTSO war. Evil empire colonist genocidal pos organization.
I think it's Putin's war, and I blame him
Peace sucks doe
