Which instances have the most diverse points of view?
Which instances have the most diverse points of view?
Since Trump, I'm finding the Lemmy.world experience to be increasingly akin to an echo chamber and it's quite frankly starting to bore me. (Inb4, I'm a left winger and I don't like Trump, but I'm much more interested in a good spirited debate or novel points of view than I am in Orange man bad Nazi circle jerks)
If I wanted the same repetitive comments to be upvoted and any different opinion at all to be downvoted and even blocked/banned, I'd have just stayed on Reddit.
Are there any instances where different, opposing and novel points of view are celebrated and debated rather than simply derided and downvoted?
I had a much better experience with Reddit than a lot of people express. Of course that all changed that year and half ago. But my point is that I was deep into a world of intellectualism on Reddit that I have not found since it was wrecked. I have found Lemmy to be an infant version of that.
It is hard to find communities like I had, if there is any activity in my interests at all. I have not found a news feed as quick as the ones I followed on Reddit if any feed at all. Information sourcing and original content almost never happen. The politics are highly tribal and intellectual here. The science barely exists. The hobbies and special interests have little to no activity. I only have the app on my phone to look for a quick read.
What kind of diversity of thought are you looking for?
Could you give an example?
Is there an intellectually honest point of view that Donald Trump isn’t a fascist?
I don't think he's a fascist necessarily, although he is a far-right, authoritarian ultranationalist. So that makes him... oh.
No single instance has very "broad" POVs, however some instances are federated more broadly and thus get more points of view. To that end, Lemm.ee and Lemmy.ml are much more diverse than Lemmy.world, which is defederated from the major instances with large populations of Marxists.
Hexbear and Grad tend to have a lot of Marxist (and Anarchist, in the case of Hexbear) perspectives you aren't really seeing much of on Lemmy.world, which is very "US Democrat Liberal."
You aren't going to find anywhere where the virtue of being "different" is worthy of celebration when it comes to POVs, and I think that's a bit of a lost cause. I don't see much value in entertaining the opinions of fascists, as an example.
Thanks for this. Will definitely check out those instances.
No problem! If you're looking for right-wing viewpoints, you can already see them from a Lemmy.world account, they usually hang out either on Lemmy.world or sh.itjust.works, it's more the Leftists that Lemmy.world censors from your view.
never seen an anarchist on hexbear tbh, but I've been alwaus banned pretty fast for stating my opinions on the state and the ukraine war
I've seen many, and Anarchist theory is linked and discussed frequently. Sectarianism is banned, so you haven't likely seen Anarchists getting into fights with Marxists. As for the Ukranian war, Hexbear overall adopts the viewpoint of Lenin's analysis of Imperialism as a special stage in Capitalist development, including the Anarchists, so you likely disagreed on those grounds.
There's some peeps who claim they're anarchist on hexbear, but end up parroting the same ML-talking points about AES and often have similar toxic behaviour towards those who disagree with the groupthink. If any are there, they're basically campists, like the rest. For example of such campist anarchist takes, you can take a look at abolitionmedia. But ultimately these anarchists are pretty isolated from the larger anarchist movement.
and Anarchist, in the case of Hexbear
more like right wing trolls
Why would a supposed group of right-wingers host Mutual Aid communities to help those in need, reading groups for Leftist theory from Marx to Lenin to Goldman and even feminist thinkers like Bell Hooks and trans activists like Leslie Feinberg, maintain millitantly defensive moderation principles to protect their large and active trans userbase, and do so for years without ever federating, and only remaining selectively federated with other instances?
Nobody has ever managed to answer that question any time they make that claim. Do you legitimately think it's all an ironic bit purely for each other?
If by "diverse" you mean "has western conservatives", then considering how the entire concept of the fediverse is progressive, you're not going to find many of them here. On Reddit, there's r/AskPolitics which overall leans liberal and is US centric but is more open to discussion than other subreddits. There's some other debate subreddits as well which you might be interested in. They're helpful for developing political views, but after that hearing the same BS from people who have fundamentally different values gets tiring and people leave so that's why there aren't many of those spaces.
If you're open to other viewpoints that are opposed to both Republican and Democrat, leftist instances like lemmy.ml, Hexbear, Lemmygrad, and dbzer0 have that, and they can have very different stances on other issues as well (i.e. Lemmygrad vs dbzer0). They can still be echo-chambery (which is hard to avoid) but they also tend to have more users that are interested in intellectual debate.
As far as what instance actually has the most diverse points of view, I'd say lemm.ee which federates with basically everybody and I've seen users there from all over the political spectrum. However, there's isn't much in terms of political discussion there compared to other instances.
Is db0 left wing? I felt like they lean closer to .world than left.
They claim to be anarchist and I've seen a lot of users from there criticize Democrats, although they hate Marxists also, so I'm not sure. They're also one of the few instances that federates with Hexbear, but they do block Lemmygrad.
They try to be anarchists but they're mostly from western countries so they have permanent programming they refuse to shake off (i.e. calling anyone that doesn't think eurocentric anarchism is the only real left wing ideology a tankie.). Compared to .world's Hillary Clinton though they're like Marx.
Imagine your issue with .world being that it's too left-wing
I'd be getting bored if it was an echo chamber of any flavour.
As I've said in other comments, I'm here to learn and part of that means exposing myself to people that do not think alike to me. I'm not hear to circle jerk about how right we are, maybe that was fun the first few thousand times, it's just boring now.
Ideally I'd like to get involved with a broad spectrum of people that somewhat represent the society that we live in.
Maybe I should just get offline and go to the pub.
You might be better off looking for a community where the moderation optimizes for that kind of discussion (ex. Removing low effort comments, requiring citations, academic oriented, etc). It's harder to find an entire instance that matches those points, but there should be a few communities like that
Then you can use the subscribed feed only, or block the communities you don't like
Closest I can think of is Hexbear's News Megathread, but it isn't really for debate, just analysis of current events. Is there a comm like that elsewhere?
Gotta second this, it's a little hard to find from a separate instance- you need to go to /c/[email protected] and pick it from the pinned threads
That’s a good idea!
Register and account on another instance that passes the litmus test of federation with .ml and hexbear. Block .world on that new account. Don't block all those instances .world told you to blindly hate.
This.
The leftist instances have a good mix of leftists and liberals that are brave enough to do what they're told not to do.
I'm about to say the same thing differently.
Eliminating .world filters the majority of the propaganda and bad faith users. What remains is leftist because once we pierce through the propaganda and bad faith, we all agree that left is human.
We've three core groups: social democrats, authoritarian socialists & communists, and libertarian socialists & communists. Each focuses on a different part of our timeline. Respectively: the present, the means to overcome the human paradigm, and the ideal solution as we understand it.
Edit: I left out anarchists, whom are often my favorite group. They never get the respect they deserve. I apologize for contributing to that.
Small, niche communities, and unfortunately you'll probably need to know what ideas you're interested in ahead of time to get there.
People with intelligent but divergent ideas are always outnumbered by people pushing an agenda, and they end up getting moderated together because it's hard to superficially know the difference.
Note that it's entirely possible to have an echo chamber that's divergent from bigger echo chambers, and that's were a lot of people are pointing you, because of the instance you asked on.
I have an alt on .ca, I find there's a pretty good mix of beliefs there. And a fair number less tankies than where this alt I'm on is....
Perhaps surprisingly when it comes to breaking the echo chamber and having diverse political points of view and approaches (on subjects like identity politics, intersectionality, geo politics, organization building, strategy...etc) I'd say even ML circles have a lot more of that than just vaguely leftist safe liberal stances (at the very least they might have novel ideas and no orange man bad meme).
If you want more diversity of opinions you can expand in different directions, but I hardly see what good would be a place that has both fascists and anti-fascists for example and most of us are tired of picking internet fights. I suppose as long as you're aware of which kind of discussion you've more tolerance for you're good, but whether it's tolerance for the occasional black crime rate statistic or an esoteric graph of the falling rate of profit, you're not likely to find a space that has both.
In general I'd go with Cowbee's recommendations though (for something that's still obviously fairly leftwing)
db0 is federated with world hexbear beehaw ml and many others.
Not with Lemmygrad, though, so if their goal is to be as broad as possible dbzer0 doesn't cut it.
No.
E: okay, it’s not fair to just tell you the answer when you’re already broadcasting a desire to read a bunch of stuff so here goes:
If you want to see analysis and consideration of the right from an outside perspective you ought to be on hexbear or grad. Both instances don’t have near as many sky is falling posts or comments and trend towards figuring out why something is happening within the framework of doctrinaire Marxism Leninism or imperialism or at least what should be done to mitigate the effects rather than having a big ol hissy fit over it.
If, as is implied by your post and comments (“ good spirited debate”, “ opposing and novel”, celebrated and debated“, “ worthy of discussion or debate”), you just wanna see people fight each other online then check out reddit, x (the everything app) and facebook where that happens often.
If you have, and this is a reach, the desire to understand people who you think are on that right wing spectrum around you in real life, go talk to them. People love telling you what they think and when they don’t it’s because they know something you don’t or they’re up to something.
I think you are going to have a hard time finding a place to talk with a group that overall deals in bad faith arguments and hate speech. They also tend to silo themselves off to their own platforms over concerns that their hate speech gets them moderated (because Free Speech != does not mean speech without consequences or needs to be tolerated by everyone).
If you really want to see the MAGA "point of view" you are probably better off going to them on Truth Social, Gab, 4chan, The_Donald, etc.
This is kind of the derision that I'm talking about. (I am assuming that you are talking about the right wing). Whilst there is some truth to it, you disagreeing with them or their arguments doesn't mean that it isn't interesting, or worthy of discussion or debate.
I do agree that hate speech should be banned and that isn't what I'm interested in.
I'm not interested in the MAGA point of view per se, I'm interested in a diverse spectrum of ideas and opinions that reflect a real cross section of society, where undoubtedly some of them will be MAGA people. Whereas there is a very strong left leaning bias here.
The issue is that you can't have discussion or debate with:
- statements in bad faith
- statements not based on reality (conspiracy theories/misinformation/"alternative facts"
So the issue is once you have removed those, you aren't left with many people holding a very broad spectrum of viewpoints outside of niche topics (Vi vs Emacs).
It seems like you don't realize that the world is extremely polarized. It's not just Lemmy.
Do people do good, spirited debates anymore? Most of what I see would be more akin to wrestling a pig.
Debating online is largely useless for convincing the other party. Sometimes onlookers learn, but if it's a debate neither party usually concedes. Education works, ie someone asking for more information, but that's about it.
We have to be the change we want to see
I think Lemmy is at an all-time low for patience towards non-conformist opinions due to recent events being... upsetting. Give it some time and folks will be more willing to consider other ideas i think
It's emotional times so I understand that rationality ends up taking a back seat in the mind. I hope you're right!
Your best bet is to be in a lot of instances. My experiences so far is that basically any singular instance has its bias', and while some unapologetically ban users for disagreeing with them, the ones that don't still down vote for disagreeing with them.
While one of these forms of censorship is worse than the other, it's all censorship, and the only way to see a variety of views is to stay in the varying instances.
The point of the fediverse is to give people the option to create communities by themselves and not be subject to the ruling of one central allmighty entity. If someone does not like one community they have the chance to create their own with their own rules. This means people can decide for themselves what content they want in their community. However people coming from traditional social media seem to mistake this kind of freedom with not needing to follow any rules but that's not how it works.
Same goes for countries. Big ones cause problems IMO
Bored of the truth?
"Opinions are like arseholes", but when you've seen 1,000 very similar arseholes you're probably going to want to see some different ones.
if you're looking for an instance that won't ban you based on your political belives check out lemmy.blahaj.zone
EDIT: not entirely true, you actually have to belive in basic human rights to be part of this community