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Heheh, this shitpost triggers me.
My mom was forcing us a macrobiotic diet back in the day. We were strictly vegan, although fish is allowed in that diet, some vegetables like patatoes and tomatoes are not. Hardcore vegans…
My school lunch was mostly sushi with a filling of fermented prune called umeboshi, or tempeh and seaweeds, pumpkin or rice balls and sesame seeds. We were underfed, yellow flaky skin because of the overdose of carotene and you see everyone around you in school eating candy, fries, meat and what not while also taking the piss at you for being different and stinking of that diet.
At dinner I use to bury my Iziki seaweed in the plant pot because I just couldn't swallow that shit without gagging. If I did not behave mom would go…”you're behaviour is to yang, next two weeks on a yin diet”. Disgusting.
By the age of 12, me and my sister got into stealing money from our parents real quick to buy normal or fast food, annoying the guy at the snackbar on wheels for free fries, shoplifting and shit. Yeah, good times.
That's a diet that's avoiding nightshades not a vegan diet. Some people think nightshades can trigger inflammation or autoimmune diseases but there really isn't any evidence about it. Some people with irritable bowel disease fine nightshades trigger flare ups but that's about all I've heard of.
Another one to add to the list, Mast Cell Activation Disorders can have a huge variety of triggers, so much like IBS, individuals and may notice a connection between nightshades and their mast cell flare ups.
One of the main treatments for MCAS is simply an elimination diet to identify riggers followed by avoiding triggers for the rest of your life.
There are some MCAS patients who have to be entirely prescription formula fed because they have so many obscure dietary triggers.
Unlike IBS which can be debilitating, but rarely life threatening, MCAS causes anaphylaxis, so it can appear like a real allergic reaction to food, and it functionally is, it's just not a true IgG or IgE allergy to a specific protein chain.
Oh, and this is not a rant against vegans, everyone is welcome at my house, if you are good anybody. I even have pots and pans that never touched meat. I will serve you any grilled vegetables, beans, salads and vinaigrettes, pesto's and bread, or baked patatoes and what not. I used to cook vegan for the homeless here in Amsterdam when I was mostly homeless and squatting myself in what we call squatting cafe’s.
That's a batshit insane diet, not a vegan one. Fish allowed but potatoes and tomatoes forbidden? What is the logic here? Or is this just some weird "diet" that's supposed to make you more "pure" or something?
Tomatoes and potatoes are both nightshades.
Some people think they exacerbate autoimmune conditions and digestive issues. Some are simply allergic or intolerant to it.Probably, OP was also not having peppers, or eggplants.
This diet just feels not worth living for lol all my favorite foods are banned
You are living up to, and by my estimation exceeding, your username. Sorry to hear you had a rough childhood. Glad to hear that things are better - you sound like an awesome host.
Having separate cookware is really considerate n_n
Obligatory Mitchell and Webb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JpRmmMyNYo
that's why i hate religious restrictions
Yes I agree.
Not only the diet, but the whole cult around it. Faith healers, homeopathy, people chewing on brown riceballs for an hour counting how many chews they had so they can show off how far they are on their macrobiotic spiritual journey. “You gotta chew your seaweed at least a 100 times”. These mf’s should not be around kids or have any (yes I would not exist). I am not on speaking terms and won't open the door for my parents, get fucked.
That is disturbing. Cultish.
Thats cause it is, theres a link between vegan new age bullshit (and I aint talking about your average neo pagan) and cults. Basically back in the 1800s you started seeing new cults form with weird dietary restrictions, the most well known example is Mormons. As time went on you got groups like the Seventh day Adventists and also a sprouting of eugenicists who supported veganism. Then after WW2 a lot of it was repackaged and got mixed in with the holy rollers, new agers, and general woo bullshit by the late 50s going into the sixties.
The current form is a mildly modsrnized versionsof the 1950s BS going into today. There is also some random other shit having to do with prohibition for the 1800s part pf the movement hence Mormons but the links in general are odd.
Also I aint saying this about all vegans, veganism has existed for millenia im only talking about the woo woo bullshit types. Ya know the ones.
What dietary restrictions do Mormons have?
No alcohol, I was using them as an illustration of the trend. It started out with prohibition tendencies back in the 1800s and evolved from there.
Aaah ok. It’s pretty run of the mill compared to (gestures broadly) the rest of their practices and beliefs.
Yeah it was just a patern I recognized, a lot of the cults from the same era juat went farther. First it started with alcohol then it moved on to caffeine, and before ya know it their banning spices and meat.
Don't confuse that with veganism though
Isn't veganism essentially a religious belief? Even if not, it is equally illogical.
No. It seems like you don't know what veganism is. It's a philosophical stance and therefore completely different to any religion. It's based n logical arguments. If you don't like the suffering of animals and when they're harmed without any necessity, it's very likely that your core moral beliefs are the same as of any vegan.
It is logical. That's why nobody can argue with the logic of the core arguments.
I'm curious. how is it illogical for you?
Although I entirely agree with the spirit of your point I'd like to add a long-winded side-note (essentially "and also", not "but"). I guess when treated as a "title" Veganism is an inherently philosophical stance, but many conflate "Veganism" with "Having A Strictly Vegan Diet/Lifestyle" so my comment is for those people. Some who identify with the latter of the two (like myself) may be as such - or at least have become as such - for various other "logical reasons". In the early-90s I inadvertantly became "mostly vegetarian, sometimes pescaterian" due to living with a vegetarian girlfriend. Working in an extremely physically strenuous career, and also coming from a childhood littered with various unexplainable health "issues", I noticed (with hindsight) huge and surprising physiological benefits from that change. Due to that, and reading about how fundamental human classifying parameters are at the very herbivorous end of the spectrum (nails not claws, very long intestines, low-acidity digestive system which struggles to break down harder animal cell-walls in food, sweating through skin not tongue, mostly non-canine teeth, not having predatory close-set eyes, etc), I proceeded within a year to full vegetarianism - this time consciously. It took years to overcome the n00b mistakes (lack of nutritional knowledge, cooking skills, motivation) that usually eventually turn people back off vegetarianism, and at that point as some of the "fog of war" cleared I noticed a few lingering "issues" from my youth. I had researched food intolerances so did a test to find I was moderately intolerant to 3 types of meat and a few other odd things, and more importantly strongly intolerant to milk (and milk products). The followup consultant told me such a strong reaction indicates all animal-milk would be problematic, not just cow's. That prompted going vegan in about 2013, with such a dramatic further health-improvement I had to tell myself not to obsess with "if only I'd known this 30 years ago". Even though I have since become increasingly "philosophically vegan" through a kind of mental osmosis, the point I want to make here is that was really post-hoc, as a side-effect. My original drivers were "purely by accident, then conscious but for functional reasons". These days - nearly 30 years after going vegetarian and more than 10 years after going vegan - I just do some resistance/weight-training each morning yet I'm far more healthy and "built" than I ever was throughout an effectively "acrobatic" career (even when training for that career 45hrs/week and eating half-kilo mincemeat-based meals as a teenager), even though I ended that career years ago. Those are also very "logical reasons" in addition to the usual "logical ethical vegan reasons regarding treatment of animals", as also are the "logical ecological reasons" too (particularly the extreme amount of deforestation that is done to create grazing land for livestock).
It is completly illogical and it tries to impose unnatural limitations - you know, like religions do.
My question was how it's illogical to you and your answer is "it's completely illogical"?
Like, how hard is it to write down a simple sentence in which you explain why it's illogical!?
I can do you a favour and already unfold it: The vegan argument is that unnecessary harm towards animals should be avoided when it's "possible and practical", like when you live in a modern society, you don't need to buy leather clothes or eat meat, there is no necessity to do so because of the incredible amount of alternatives, where no animal needs to be killed nor harmed.
To say thats illogical therefore means that you see no logic in avoiding unnecessary harm towards animals. So please, just start your response like this:
"I don't see how it's logical that we should avoid unnecessary harm towards animals, because...."
It is illogical to impose limitations on what humans can it, apart from perhaps health reasons (allergies etc.).
Religions do that. You cannot eat pork/beef etc, depending on the religion. Vegans also do that and it is equally moronic.
Well, I made it simple for you and you still totally fail at responding to the point. So you just want to talk about limitations as if the reasons behind it are not relevant? By that logic, why do you limit yourself on eating pets? Why do you limit yourself on eating humans? I assume that the reason of why you don't eat them are relevant? So why don't you read once again which reason was giving for the circumstance that vegans don't consume animal prodcuts
If you fail to adress how the reason behind it is illogical, then I fear you're not educated enough in terms of discussion and in terms of the topic that is discussed here.
One last time: The reason why vegans stop consuming any animal products and why they don't support any other kind of animal exploitation is that it's not necessary, and if you're against animal abuse, then you should ask yourself why you still pay for it.
As I mentioned before, the whole vegan argument is about logic. I fear that your problem is not that you just can't understand logic, it's that you're ignorant. You showed that very clearly by now
Religions do that. You cannot eat pork/beef etc, depending on the religion. Vegans also do that and it is equally moronic.
It would be hard to make a conclusion that is even more dumb than what you just said. Again, the reason of why vegans refuse to pay for any animal products is because they can easily buy alternatives which don't involve the exploitation and killing of animals. It's therefore not necessary to pay for animals to be harmed and killed. If there is no necessity for an animal to be harmed and killed, then paying for exactly that is in fact immoral.
You don't care about your own immoral actions, which is what many people do, but what makes you extraordinary "special" is how you try to make vegan look bad by preaching that their logic is flawed - while the reason that you state in regard to that are without any logic. The irony.
The sad part is that, people like you are the ones that then claim vegans are bad people while all you do is to spread nonsense about them and leave toxic responses where you fail to discuss the main arguments in a constructive manner.
I'm not a vegan - but we are omnivores, we can eat plants. There is nothing unnatural about it. Let alone if you compare it to our modern 'normal' food, which is chock full of extra sugar, extra fat, extra protein, extra artificial additives like preservatives, sweeteners, and what not. It's also factual that you can get more energy out of directly consuming plant material than eating an animal that consumed said plant material. If you take the biggest offenders for that, cows. You need 8 kg of feed for them to produce a kg of meat, this is known as it's feed conversion ratio (source). Other animals (Like chicken and fish) are better, but a ration below 1 is essentially impossible.
I like the taste of meat as much as the next (average) person, but vegans do have a factual basis for their stance. But non-vegans rebuttal to that is realistically just "I don't want to give up meat because I like it" not "the facts aren't on your side." - Lets be honest about that.
but we are omnivores, we can eat plants. There is nothing unnatural about it.
Yup, precisely, there is nothing unnatural about omnivores eating plants and meat. It is an attempt to restrict part of this normal for omnivores diet which is unnatural and this is what religions do. Thus my point.
I'm glad you found a natural computer to post with from inside your natural house. Seeing your dogshit opinions is funny.
Appeals to nature are not compelling because all of human progress and civilisation is built upon using technology to surpass nature. Just about everything we interact with in modern society isn't natural, why would we think that your idea of humans natural diet would be the ideal?
Veganism is an ethical stance, not religious. There are plenty of ethical stance that place restrictions on human behaviour that I'm sure you are totally on with, like when society tells you not to steal from or murder people. Are you prepared to argue against ethics as a whole?
Are you a little bit slow? Genuine question.
You can eat shit if you want, it won't kill you. There's tribes in Greenland that eat bird poop as a delicacy. So it must be natural! Or how about snails, grasshoppers, worms, crickets? All edible, even good. All things an omnivore can and do consume at time. You should stop being so unnatural and cutting all of these things out of your diet.
Oh, you won't? Guess that makes you a religious believer now. C'mon man, you must be trying to be dense on purpose.
Man, some things other people probably just couldn't understand. Like I'm imagining a friend coming up to you and asking if you wanted to come over for dinner and being like, "were having your favorite, spaghetti again." With your mom right there. Then you taking hell for it and your friend never knowing what they did wrong.
I had a friend who's fridge was always packed with awesome asain food. We would be there and he would be like ah, man, we got nothing to eat. I'm like, what about all this? He, was like nah let's have frozen burritos or some shit. I miss that kid so much.
Sounds like your parents, and mother in particular suffered from (and still do?) mental illnesses, no? I mean, to me it sounds like a situation that should have been picked up on by adults, teachers, etc, that would see you, see what you looked like, how you behaved, what you were eating... That's not normal, period. I'm sorry for you having to go through all that. I thought I had it bad, but at least I had a nice home to come to
Why the forbidden potatoes and tomatoes?
Everything in the genetic family of nightshade. Solanaceae.
“Fruits including tomatoes, tomatillos, eggplant/aubergine, bell peppers and chili peppers, all of which are closely related members of the Solanaceae.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanaceae
All the delicious plant based stuff snuffed out in a macrobiotic diet.
The nightshade family is in like half of what humans even eat that's ridiculous
Maybe it's half of what you eat, but I've been "allergic" to nightshades my whole life and never felt lacking in options (I have a mast cell disorder, tomatos, potatoes etc cause anaphylaxis, it's not a true allergy, but it functions like one)
I can eat practically anything, it's only like 20 plants I'm allergic to out of like 700 I have available to me. And if I travelled overseas I'd find more stuff I could safely eat there too.
I just can't eat much pre-made, packaged organic convenience foods. Most will contain potato starch, unmarked dextrose, "spices" (if it's not specific in the ingredients list, often I avoid), etc
Even desserts aren't safe because e160c, paprika, is what most companies here used when they swapped out the red dye 40.
So I cook from scratch, but I've never felt limited in my own kitchen because of the ingredients I have. (I am limited at restaurants, I usually order a black coffee and enjoy my dining friend's company)
I also don't live in the America's, so that helps. I can see why they would think nightshades are everything, all the best foods from the Americas start with tomato, or capsicums, and potato is a staple carb. Meanwhile my cultural diet is based on brassicas and oats.
But at the end of the day, Beans and rice is nightshade free, it doesn't take a genius to think of a non-nightshade vegetable to add to the mix to make a unique meal.
You refuted my point that they're in everything by saying it's easy to avoid nightshades if you: don't eat out, eat premade food, no eating red colored things, don't live in the Americas, don't eat anything ambiguously labeled just spices, and fallback to rice and beans when in doubt? Of course if you're making your own food you can avoid it and still make stuff you like but op was talking about having these restrictions forced on them to the point they were stealing food. That's the ridiculous part they didn't have a choice in the matter and got cut out of all the things you listed with no good way around it
Well it is a spiritual journey, you don’t need to sin on food.
What was the so called spiritual part of abstaining from these, or in in general, on this whole thing? No need to answer if you dont feel like it or whatever, just thank you for your insights.
From what I learned a higher spiritual state is only achieved through discipline and rigoureus diet, ultimately one could live on a bowl of brown rice a day rule the earth. It is all really 1970s zen.
It is now, but it wasn't until the Columbian Exchange. Eggplant is the only edible nightshade variety from the eastern continents, the rest being native to South and Central America.
To clarify, Native Americans are not humans.
(Joking)
I have no words, I'm sure you've heard it all. Thanks for sharing this story and sorry for your childhood. Hope you're healing.
Thank you for caring, that is better than anything spoken.
I'm curious why fish was allowed and why tomatoes weren't, do you know what their reasoning was?
Beats me, maybe a land animal was more scentient than anything out of the sea. There are vegetarians having no problem eating fish.
That would per definition be pescetarians
It's the microbial diet, so it's got nothing to do with ethics, the mother was just following all the pseudo-science around which she foods are good for gut health.
Kimchi is good for gut health (that part is not not pseudo-science, but it's just good food, not a magic cure)
Fish sauce is also fermented therefore arguably good for gut health, but regardless good Kinchela will contain fish sauce, so if the goal of your diet is just "eat all the fermented food that's good for your gut", it's going to end up being lacto-pescatarian.
Why the kid couldn't eat dairy must be due to a second pseudo-science belief. Yoghurt is good for gut health so the mum must have had some other reason, something she read on Facebook like "cow hormones in the milk are bad for your human hormone levels" could explain cutting out the fairy without being ethically vegan.
But are potatoes more sentient than fish??
Holy shit bro, that’s crazy!