Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

Since this is our first episode discussion on Lemmy, we have a couple of reminders about our expectations.

Constructive Criticism - criticism is welcome, but please put some effort into explaining why you did or didn't like something. Just saying something was "good" or "bad" isn't exactly laying a foundation for discussion.

Spoilers - when a new episode airs, we enforce spoiler tagging for approximately one week. When creating threads about episodes that are less than one week old, please keep spoilers out of the post title, and use spoiler tags in the body of your post. Obviously, spoilers for this episode are allowed in this thread.

Ortegas inverted her controller settings as everyone should 🎮

Honestly Inverted Stick for Flight controls makes so much more sense on controller because that's what you would do with an actual flight stick
Being a ship already, wouldn't the Ent already be inverted and she's just changed it back?

I am 100% here for the chaotic energy that Carol Kane is going to bring to this show.
The Klingon captain had exactly the right amount of swagger and sassiness that a TOS-era Klingon captain is supposed to have. I'm glad that they're moving on from some of the Discovery Klingon characterization while also resisting the urge to jump right to them behaving like TNG Klingons.

Hemmer was my favorite character from season one, and is very difficult to replace in my heart. But Carol Kane is one of those actors you just can't help but love to see on screen (in any capacity). It's going to be very hard to be upset knowing she'll be around.
- I do wish we were able to keep Hemmer around longer.
Completely agree with both points. The Klingons were altogether great - makeup and hair were perfect, and the captain at the end was the icing on the cake

As President of the Spock/Chapel fanclub and a sucker for Klingons, I feel that this episode was plucked out of my brain.

I loved it.

I’m also glad they began to explore a bit of post war PTSD through M’Benga. It’ll be interesting to see how far they go with the Gorn.

For the love of Pete can we stop with all of the lame catch phrases and dumb jokes? Spock should have just uttered something simple suiting the Vulcan personality/character, like "proceed". But no, we have to get a lame line one step above a fart joke...

I really don't get why people are so upset about the warp catchphrase thing. I think its great that there's a tradition through Trek lore. It reinforces to me that these are all people. People working hard to advance themselves to the point they daydream of sitting in the Captain's chair. Every single Trek nerd can empathize with that daydream.
- @arod48 @startrek For me, it breaks the suspension of disbelief. The whole “catchphrase” conversation was, for sure, a writer’s room thing that leaked into the scripts. It might be an interesting thing to reflect on for the writers and the fans, but it rings untrue when the characters spend so much time on it.
  
  It reminds me of all those “Let’s put on a show!” situations in various movies and TV shows. The characters in those programs probably wouldn’t be inclined, but for the the entertainment community that produced the show, it’s second nature, and often allows them to entertain the audience by letting the actors show off their other talents (viz Picard lustily quoting Shakespearean sonnets to impress some Ferengi). Sure, it’s entertaining, but if you want to suspend disbelief and get into a story about highly trained people helming a starship, bristling with weapons and technology, it’s jarring.
  
  IMHO, of course 😉
Spock should have just uttered something simple suiting the Vulcan personality/character

I would argue that that's exactly what he did. That line was very representative of where his character is in this episode - stressed-out and awkward.
I think it would have been better as a comic moment towards the end of the episode, as they leave to come home... In the tense moment of stealing the ship and answering distress call it felt very forced.

Not a terrible start but sadly not one of my favorite episodes for sure.

I don't really know how to describe what I didn't like, but I think it boils down to just how disjointed and rushed the pacing feels. For something so high stakes, it all felt really easy and predictable and just a bit boring.

It also felt like they were really really aggressive about making sure you understood the message about Spock. Seriously felt like a character was going to wink at the camera whenever they said something like "you're not a normal Vulcan!".

If I had to describe it, I'd probably go with Saturday morning cartoon surprisingly. A lot of story crammed into not enough time, with a heavy handed message about a character.

I didn't hate it, don't get me wrong. It just wasn't unique or interesting like so many episodes are.

I feel like the 'boring' rush from sequence to sequence is happening a lot in media right now. I remember feeling the same during a couple of episodes of the last season on Mando.

Almost like paying and rewarding writers properly, so you get their best work is important.

Best I can put it down too is that they're keen to make the characters seem strong and powerful, but they forget to set up proper flaws, tension and stakes/the ones that used to exist have been ruined by now over a decade of magic resurrection macguffins whenever somebody dies in popular media that fans like.

As sub par as TNG Season 1 was, and regardless of the toxic behind the scenes environment that led to it, we can't deny that them killing off a principle character was a bold move than really set the stakes that anybody could die and that it wouldn't always be in a blaze of glory.
Yeah, same goes for me. It was good, but it felt inexplicably "off" when compared to the first season.
I feel the same. There was some really good stuff here - I particularly liked the introduction of Pelia - but ultimately this should have been a two-part episode.

The M'Benga-and-Chapel-are-Max-Payne sequence went on far too long: only one group aboard the ship had weapons (and Stormtrooper accuracy) of any kind? I'd have preferred a stealthier sequence: after reprogramming the transponder, they use a series of Jeffries tubes to get to the airlock with the intent of opening it to escape but the ship takes off to ruin that plan.

Other than that, it was a decent episode to get the season going. Spock's emotional journey will be a focal point of the season, which I'm okay with. ~~SPECTRE~~ The Broken Circle Gang is probably going to show up again and I wonder if we'll eventually see some TOS villains retconned to be members. Carol Kane will be fun and with what was said of her species, I'm betting on her making at least two ENT references during the season.

Interesting that the false-flag ship is Crossfield-class: the saucer is a clear match but the drive section is completely different. Were the Discovery and Glenn modified from that spec to fit the spore drive research project or was the ship we saw a wartime refit of the class?

So Die Hard on a spaceship? We did that with Starship Mine already but I definitely wouldn't mind seeing it again. Is Starfleet's version of the Hippocratic oath "First, do no harm, unless you have to, in which case go hard."?

As for the Crossfield-Class, I thought it might either be that the classification of Discovery made them change the format of it for obfuscation purposes. Either that or they built that ship from salvaged parts from the war, and the saucer/transponder was from a Crossfield, and Uhura was simply reading from the transponder code the ship class.
- That was my take as well on the ship. My reading was that they picked up a bunch of salvage from the war, and kit-bashed it all together to make a ship.
- Is Starfleet’s version of the Hippocratic oath “First, do no harm, unless you have to, in which case go hard.”?
  
  LOL
  
  One must protect oneself, too, I suppose.
Were the Discovery and Glenn modified from that spec to fit the spore drive

Yes. IIRC that was stated in of the first handful of Discovery episodes. (possibly the one where they encountered the Glenn?)
only one group aboard the ship had weapons (and Stormtrooper accuracy) of any kind?

you do remember they were trying to buy phasers from La'an? Those were the only phasers they had, it would seem.
also can we please stop it with the trope "oh no, how are we going to survive this jump through space without a suit? ...Oh whaddya know we're just fine." Just give them fucking suits, it's lazy writing to create more suspense for no reason.
- Right!?! Nobody watching is going to think their are going to kill off two of the main cast members in the first episode...

Pelia is like "I have been alive for hundreds of years and I'm going to make that everyone else's problem."

Regarding Nurse Chapel almost dying - this is one of the TV/movie tropes that I think is such a cheap and terrible device and I am tired of it. Discovery was full of these scenes where they make you believe a main character really almost died, only to survive after all, and having their crew mates weep for them (I am looking at you Burnham). There are much better ways to create good drama.

I’d normally agree with you but I don’t think they were trying to fool the audience in this case. It was more about shocking Spock’s emotional reaction.

Still, there’s better ways of showing that than the almost dying trope.

spoiler

Nurse Chapel is in TOS - so there wasn’t really any risk that she was going to die here.
- Yeah, putting aside that not everyone has seen TOS who is watching this show, I didn't interpret this as some kind of attempt to make the audience think Chapel was going to die. The purpose of this happening was all about what it shows about Spock and the scenes and character development that come from that.
  
  And I think in this case it was quite effective and I wouldn't change it to something else. Spock was holding off the order and he was really upset because he didn't want to give the order that kills Chapel and M'Benga (though he has more attachment to Chapel). The threat to their lives is a vital part of this story they're telling about Spock and it wouldn't have the same effect if they changed the situation to something else. Seeing him have to give the order, then have them be possibly alive, but then having Chapel seem to be dead and Spock himself bring her back was very powerful for me and I don't think that could be replaced with something else or a different kind of situation and have the same impact on either Spock or the audience.
  
  Both the scene in the transporter room and in sick bay later were excellent excellent scenes for Spock and highlights of the episode for me. Ethan Peck's acting was really strong in those scenes too — I'm so glad to have him playing Spock.
- undefined> I’d normally agree with you but I don’t think they were trying to fool the audience in this case. It was more about showing Spock’s emotional reaction.
  
  Yep that was my take as well.
It makes even less sense on a prequel show where you know the characters are for sure around longer.
@triktrek Oh, boy - Can we talk about “Picard”?! Data dies in Nemesis, a great and noble sacrifice. Which is then diminished, because we brought him back for Picard! The staff didn’t think the Nemesis sacrifice was a worthy sendoff, or perhaps *they* wanted to do the sending off. So we’ll kill him again, this time with feeling! But, season three, the old gang is all getting together again. Maybe we can resurrect him one more time? (I’m aware of the supposed differences, but really. It was Data.)

And they killed off Picard! Another great and noble sacrifice! But no, not really, let’s bring him back as an android, you’ll never notice the difference! 🙄

It’s really at the point where a character's death is robbed of all drama, because there's always a way to resurrect them. It was a dream, they were in the Mirror universe, the mycelium network made a copy, etc.
- I agree. That's why it would have actually been shocking if there were to really kill Chapel. I only watched Games of Thrones lately (yeah I know), and boy was I shocked at the various kills of main characters.
As someone who actually enjoyed Discovery, that’s one of the things I couldn’t stand about it. And it really disappoints me that they used it here. You can’t have the stakes of every damn episode be that high, so it really bothers me that we get it in the first episode of the season. I really hope it’s not a sign of things to come.
- But we know Chapel isn't going to die in this show. She was in the follow up series that's been canon got 60 years.
In the last scene it did seem odd that m'benga was absolutly fine yet chapel was still in effectively ICU
Don't watch SW Episode IX then lol, I think they had like five or six fakeout deaths? jfc
- Yeah, that was pretty dumb too.

~~I'm not entirely sure if I have to spoiler tag this since this is in the discussion thread but I will anyways since the rule doesn't say the threads are an exception to the rule.~~ Edit: Thanks ValueSubtracted for the clarification on this.

Really disliked this one. And I loved just about all of season 1.

One of the main things for me is that the pacing felt far too quick.

For instance, when getting the injection of the super serum, they only briefly mentioned M'Benga's issue with it and quickly moved on without any sort of issues beyond that brief line.

I also have some issues with the characterization and general way the crew acted. They seemed a lot less professional in this and unlike an actual Starfleet crew.

Spock's emotional side, while I suppose justified in-universe, made him feel a lot less "Spock" to me. I was fine with his behavior in season 1 but this just feels a bit far, to the point of him being nearly unrecognizable. His "I would like the ship to go. Now" make me physically recoil in cringe with how unfunny I found it to be.

M'Benga and Chapel just beating up a bunch of bad guys three separate times felt incredibly unnecessary and I fail to see any sort of reason there couldn't have been some sort of clever escape rather than bland, mindless fighting. I think I skipped a whole minute total of them just punching the bad guys with how long the scenes drew on for. And the way M'Benga's issue with the super serum was just brushed over with a fleeting line came across as poorly executed.

La'an outdrinking a klingon seemed rather ridiculous and all I could think of was that it seemed like a bad D&D introduction to a stereotypical "cool" character. And then her burping? Did they really need a burp joke in this? It came across as uncharacteristically juvenile for the show.

That said, I did like a bit of it. Visual effects were great as always and I appreciated the slightly different intro. I'm glad the cliffhanger from last season both wasn't immediately resolved or dwelled upon too much. The false flag operation was a neat idea and it was cool to see yet another type of ship. The Klingons looked and sounded perfect and much more similar to how they were in 90s Trek, I'm glad the design was changed to this from their design in Discovery.

Overall, I very much disliked it, despite a few positive elements to it. No hate, I just disliked those parts of it I talked about.

Finally, this isn't any sort of issue I take with the show but they said that the false flag ship was Crossfield class. However, it didn't look anything like a Crossfield class beyond the ring in the saucer. Did Starfleet change the Crossfield class to a different design?

No spoiler syntax necessary in these threads!
- Good to know, thank you!
- That's great because I don't know if I can do so from a kbin instance, the syntax doesn't do anything on this end. Going to do a bit of science here.
  
  spoiler Test 1 2 3
  
  Foo Bar Bah :::
I recall reading somewhere that Akiva is trying to arc spock from "smiling spock" in The Cage through koh'linar and into TOS spock over the lifespan of SNW. Spock ditching his emotional blocks and starting to 'lose it' already this season would play directly into that plan. He continues unraveling for, say, this season and part of next, and then he embraces koh'linar to regain composure and control of his emotions. Perhaps McCoy is around for this particular event, witnessing Spock's 'transition' into a computer, setting up all the remarks from TOS.
- Except Spock didn't do Koh'linar till TMP, or are you suggesting that there were different stages of the ritual?
- I'm with it. It would be boring if this Spock was exactly the same rather than growing into the Spock we know.
I agree with a lot of your concerns. Two medical staff taking drugs and beating a mob of Klingons senseless with little hesitation and no apparent ramifications is horribly, horribly out of tone with what I’ve come to expect from Trek.

Spock is another issue. I’m fine with him undergoing growth and having a full character arc - but I really don’t see this Spock becoming the one in TOS — a Spock who disobeyed direct orders from Starfleet and was reluctantly able to potentially kill two crew members goes on to have the disastrous experience as leader in the Galileo Seven? Best I can see is he actively goes as hard as he can on suppressing his human side in the near future but that wouldn’t make him suddenly forget what emotions, illogic, and all that human baggage feels like when he’s interacting with humans later in his career.

(And for the record - I really enjoy Ethan Peck as Spock and watching his struggles with his emotional control. I just don’t feel like it’s the same character as in TOS and don’t see how he’d get there.)
- Yes, this is my main complaint with this episode and SNW wrt Spock in general. I sort of get the idea that he's going on an arc from "Smiling Spock" in the cage to TOS, but it'll be a real weird kind of change over to TOS Spock IMHO from this. And like you said, how does he become the Spock in the Galileo Seven? At this point it sort of seems like he'd need a mind wipe or something...
  
  I certainly would have thought something like him saying "It is illogical to require "a thing" to carry out lawful orders lieutenant." and if pressed again something like "We do not have time to waste - carry out your orders".
  
  This "everyone has a thing" is stupid, and to do it in multiple series?
  
  And Spock's whole thing to continue to wait / worry about M'Benga and Chapel after saying their choice was logical didn't fit for me, nor did his reaction to Chapel. How does he go from that to TOS "ignoring/not noticing" Chapel's thing for him, and lack of interest in her?
I don't know that I agree with the characterization issues you're mentioning, but as far as the cold read as a Crossfield, she does mention that she just thinks it's one. Other than the secondary hull being hilariously overlong, the saucer cutouts are easily the most distinctive part of a Crossfield, and they weren't terribly common based on what we know from Discovery. Based on that, I could see how someone could read a Crossfield saucer bolted onto the back half of an upside down NX to be 'oh I guess that's what Crossfields look like?'.
- There's been a fan theory for a while that the reason for Discovery's really long nacelles was that the ship (and Glenn) were specially modified for the spore drive experiments.
  
  This episode would seem to reinforce that.
  
  Also interestingly the saucer seems to be the one from the original (substandard) CG teaser Discovery saucer, rather than the final show version.
La’an outdrinking a klingon seemed rather ridiculous and all I could think of was that it seemed like a bad D&D introduction to a stereotypical “cool” character. And then her burping? Did they really need a burp joke in this? It came across as uncharacteristically juvenile for the show.

Would've been expected by the Klingon opponent. Who when he tried to do it, nearly puked himself.

Carol Kane is such a gem for this show, I can tell already.

She's so good! Already I really like her character!
- personally I find her gramma Addams act a little hamfisted, but maybe it'll make sense as the season goes on.

I must say I'm already a big fan of Pelia.

Meta: Would it be possible not to use NSFW for spoilers? I don't really like having all the porn subs showing up in my "All" feed, but I feel like I have to keep NSFW ticked if people are using it for spoilers and not just porn.

I've untagged it - let me know how it looks.

Unfortunately, there's no "spoiler" tag for posts.
- Thank you so much. :)

I loved that they gave Dr. M'Benga some screentime front and center and showed that he can throw down if necessary, even if it was with the help of some super serum stuff. And while I even loved his (and Nurse Chapel's ) elaborate fight scene and enjoyed the way they filmed it, I'm also not sure if it quite fits with Star Trek. Just not sure yet with the excessive slow motion. The camera angles however were some great artistic choice. But overall one great start to season 2.

I thought the fight scene was kinda out-of-character for a doctor and a nurse. If anyone would have an inherent respect for life and health of other beings, you'd expect it to be medical workers: beating them up is just highly unethical. Why couldn't they have used subterfuge to achieve the same goals?
- He might be doctor, but he also served in the war and from what it looks like the front lines. Same goes for the nurse.
- I thought that too - even moreso how much it took me out of the show to see them take on three klingons per person. Still a great show and decent episode, but that bit did take me out a bit
- those were klingons. they basically did them a favor, engaging in a fight
M’Benga turned out to be my favorite character from last season, and I’m glad they’ve been able to stretch his character out beyond having it centered around his daughter this season. He should have an interesting character arc from what they showed in this episode.
- @Fixzylicious @aufsichtsrat I think Chapel and Spock are going on a journey together too. I ❤️ Jess Bush
- He definitely is one of my favorites, too.
@aufsichtsrat @ValueSubtracted I think it was a needless cinematographic choice to use slow mo there. With the excessive cuts, it shows a lack of fight choreography (contrast with Jackie Chan movies, Kingsman, etc.)

I'm still waiting for M'Benga to slap Spock silly.
- I thought it was highlighting the effects of the serum they had taken. To chapel/m'benga time had slowed.
- Yeah, I think I might agree, was perhaps just a tad bit too much on the slow mo. It will be interesting to see how the Dr will handle Spock once he inevitable breaks Chaple's heart.
I'd say it fits more with the space cowboy ethos of the TOS era (although we saw no two handed punches). If they did it in the TNG era it'd feel more out of place.
- I was waiting for the double handed punch! Gutted they didn't do it.

I just love this show, the feeling I get when the intro rolls is the same as when I was I was 15 watching the TNG intro on TV. The characters all feel special and unique even if I've seen every episode of every series.

I've wanted a whole show about the years when Pike commanded the enterprise since I saw The Managerie as a kid. I'm so happy we're finally getting it and it's so good.

Thoughts and observations written as I watch- I'll be putting this on both Reddit and Lemmy, since infinity diversity/infinity combinations:

Wheeee, NCC-1701 in the Star Trek tag!
Previously: Last season happened.
Little ships flying!
Wonder who the lawyer that Una and Pike have tried to reach is.
Oh, hey, the Vulcan musical instrument whose name I can't remember!
“Fascinating.” “Isn't that usually his line?”
The fellowship on archeological medicine? Is that a reference to Dr. Korby?
“We must steal the Enterprise.” Buddy, if I had a nickel every time someone had to steal the Enterprise, I'd have several nickels.
Lt. Mitchell gunning for series regular next year with how much screen time she's had early on this episode.
Okay, having Carol Kane is already paying dividends.
And, yeah, Carol Kane doesn't need alien makeup to be an alien. She's already an alien.
I'm still not sure if the emphasis one the warp catch phrase is amazing or annoying, but this scene was funny.
KLINGON UPDATE: RIDGES!
So clearly La'An's augmented ancestors were genetically engineered to drink a lot. Which, y'know what? Fair.
Ah, the borderlands, where utopian rules go away and everyone becomes a Ferengi.
Congratulations to Uhura on graduating from the Academy.
Ah, the old "I have technology that I'm totally not making up that will blow you up" bluff!
New transporter chief?
Okay, so the angry borderlands people are trying to do some sort of false flag thing.
Redundant Klingon organs, the old standby.
Roided-up doctors can tell you what bones they broke as they break them.
These are obviously Discovery sets.
This action scene, while well-done, is way too long.
A D7!
“We've gotten out of worse.” “No, not really!”
“This I've got to see!”
I wonder if “Lanthanite” is a synonym for “El-Aurian”
Pelia knowing that being on the Enterprise means adventure is further proof that those ships are goddamn weirdness magnets.
Gorn. Yes, it stretches canon but fuck it the Gorn are awesome we'll come up with an explanation later.
“For Nichelle”
Overall, while not one of the better episodes, it still was a good start to the season. It wrapped up one of the hanging threads of last year (La'An), we continued to see some of Young Spock's struggles with his emotions before he became the more-Vulcan Spock that Nimoy was in the main TOS series, and we got our first look at Carol Kane as the nutty new engineer. Overall, I'll call that a win!

“For Nichelle”

I cried. I also teared up a little bit when Celia briefly channeled Nichelle early on in the episode.
- @FormerGameDev @Continuumguy me too
- Yeah that got me too.

Really delighted with this episode.

No complaints. Can’t really buy into the nitpicks on this one. It seemed completely Trek, and gave many of the ensemble their moments to shine. Production design gorgeous, virtual staging more seamless, costumes excellent, vfx great.

I like how M’Benga has hoarded the green vial as part of his lingering trauma. Better, we finally see a physician giving himself the juice instead of Kirk or some other command officer. In fact, one has to wonder if McCoy carried a stash provided by M’Benga.

Spock’s unresolved feelings for Chapel are well crafted and mirror the lingering pain we see her left with in TOS. It makes those scenes with Chapel in TOS comprehensible instead of cringe-inducing.

My gut feeling is that with a couple changes this episode would have hung together better-

Have them take a shuttle instead of the Enterprise. This lowers the stakes for our command crew and simply makes more sense than half the crew (that wasn't on leave) agreeing to steal a ship. It also means they need to figure out a different way to deal with the fake Federation ship at the end of the episode is some way other than 'shoot it with bigger guns'
Have Chapel and M'Benga do something within their character strengths to escape instead of magic drug that lets them hand-to-hand fight their way through a dozen or more Klingons.

That said, there were a lot of things I DID like about the episode, including the Klingon Captain at the end and the new Chief Engineer.

@StreetcornPips @startrek I like the shuttle idea. I almost stopped watching when Spock said, “steal the ship,” and then again when everyone said “Hunh. Okay!” It always kills me when a story revolves around an organization as large and powerful as the Federation allowing stuff like this (or the myriad of examples of rule breaking, insubordination, etc.) to happen.
- If there's one thing that is consistent about the Federation show-to-show and season-to-season is that they pretty much always allow officers to break literally any of the rules as long as the outcome is good. How many times has a ship been stolen for a rescue mission, orders been ignored, senior officers been bamboozled and sidelined, and it's almost always totally forgiven because it turned out OK in the end. Hell, Janeway straight-up murdered Tuvix as he begged for his life and everyone was like "oh, um, fine?"
  
  I used to think it was lazy writing, but now I think it's actually just the way the Federation is characterized. The Federation being theoretically utopian and egalitarian but functionally utilitarian makes things like Section 31 make sense, the same way that TNG Klingons claim to be about honor but really they're treacherous schemers no better than any other species.
The magic drug stuff felt very odd. Like they were trying to play to Discovery fans potentially. Plus the direction felt off during the action - I assume it was trying to highlight M'Benga's trauma and prejudice but the person holding the camera or directing was having trouble bringing his vision to life. Even with it being a little sloppy, I actually love how during this time in the federation there's a lot of unresolved racial conflicts between Klingons and Federation members. Such a great way to honor TOS and introduce proper character drama.

Also worth noting that it feels like this season got a pretty decent budget bump. Everything looked so polished!

I'm so happy to have SNW back. Whoever decided to put Carol Kane in the show needs to get a raise; she is absolutely spectacular. I'm very curious to see where her character goes.

I enjoy the idea of Spock being more emotional it really puts it into perspective that Vulcans have emotions they just try to keep them under lock and key and Spock being half human is having a harder time with that compared to most Vulcans is... relatable.

I did not like weird green super power drug that Chapel and M'Benga took to fight the the Klingons. It came from no where, the shot on the eyes right out of Dread made me think it was literally Slo-Mo from that movie. It really wasn't necessary, they could have just grabbed phasers somewhere instead.

I'm not realy sure how I feel about them using the term false flag in Star Trek. The plot makes sense but still it's a very charged term today.

Yes, what was up with the green stuff?? I thought maybe I missed something from last season and kept watching thinking I'd remember but... Nope. I was half expecting them to get time-accelerated like in TOST Wink of an Eye episode, so they could just zip past all the Klingons.
Yeah, the drug scene didn't feel great to me, they literally could have just found phasers or found a cleverer way around it.

I was wondering if you could explain the issue with the term 'false flag?' As far as I was aware, it's when party A carries out an action and tries to frame party B for it - which was exactly what was happening here.
- I was trying to figure out how to explain it succinctly and found this link which does a way better job than I could have: https://www.adl.org/glossary/false-flag
I enjoyed her in Gotham & Kimmy Schmidt.
That green drug was basically Underdog's super energy pill. An unnecessary 'pocket frannistan' solution to the problem of escaping the Klingons.

Chris Fisher, who lasted directed A Quality of Mercy, directs the hell out of the two SNW eps he's helmed. Wow, are they creative.

So much to say, but all I can I say is that this show just makes you smile from ear to ear and tug at your heartstrings.

Ethan Peck just knocks this episode out of the goddamn park too. He nails the funny, the serious, the inner tumultuousness of Spock.

Also glad we get to see so much of M'Benga and Chapel and their relationship too. Seems like with a war amongst the Gorn brewing, we'll see it mirrored alongside everyone's experiences in the Klingon War.

Not a bad start, although the episode felt somewhat lackluster. The character writing felt a little wooden, too much stuff is explicitly said instead of letting it hang in the subtext. Also there had better be a good explanation in future episodes as to why the hell Dr. M'benga keeps a couple of vials of punching serum handy at all times.

The visuals were great. The Klingon makeup was toned back a bit more towards a TNG-era look, but you can still see the more distinct Discovery skull shape. Overall a good mix between the two I'd say. The visuals from Spacedock feel very Discovery as well-- nice to see those starfleet drones being used outside of Control trying to kill everyone.

Also there had better be a good explanation in future episodes as to why the hell Dr. M’benga keeps a couple of vials of punching serum handy at all times.

He was a frontline doctor during a conflict with an enemy that considers medics viable targets.
nice to see those starfleet drones being used outside of Control trying to kill everyone

As long as Dots don't show back up on the Enterprise, I'm good.
undefined> Also there had better be a good explanation in future episodes as to why the hell Dr. M’benga keeps a couple of vials of punching serum handy at all times.

It was immediately before that. Because of what he went through on that moon he was stationed on during the war.

Did anyone else giggle uncontrollably at “we must steal the Enterprise”?

It’s such a great meta joke because we know he’s going to do this many more times, so it really does seem obvious for us.
- Also unbeknownst to him, it would be most famously stolen to resurrect his genesis-revived corpse!
- They need to install a lo-jack
- He gets good at hot wiring that ship
Yup. Ethan Peck's delivery was impeccable.

So we're not going to talk about the drugs that supposedly give you the strength to beat teams of Klingons and have no side effects?

Not to mention it seems generally pretty dark to suggest that Federation officers were regularly taking performance enhancers during the war...
- A smart doctor with a nerd at his side. I feel that their super serum is not standard issue.
Forget the Space PCP. Where did they get the training?

I suppose on that moon where it rained blood?
- There was heavy implication that M'Benga at least was deep in the shit during the war, and Chapel was also seemingly a veteran. Maybe hand to hand training was standard for facing off against Klingons.
I wonder if it is less that it gives you the strength, but more that it helps with pain blocking and reaction, but with the downside that you got to take it RIGHT before the fight, and that the aches and pains will still be there when it wears off. I don't recall them mentioning that it had no side effects, so I would imagine that the side effects weren't quite plot-relevant enough to devote time to, and were handled "off camera", so to speak.
- They put it in there like it was no big deal though. It kind of sends the wrong message and makes you ask the question, "Why don't they just use it all the time?"
Have we seen them use Compound V before? I don't recall it in the first season.
- @Razzleberry @arod48 i get the feeling it’s going to tie into a klingon war trauma storyline
- Nah that's clearly venom from the DC universe.

What was the magic hypo serum they used? Was it the lost Captain America serum? Or has that been referenced / used before somewhere else in universe that I don’t recall?

I've been playing FO 76 like a maniac lately and it sure read like Psychojet to me.
It makes sense to me that the Fed would have access to drugs like these, can't imagine their use is encouraged though.
I kept wishing they would make some comment to give us a hint about this mystery green super soldier liquid!
It was Compound V.
Methamphetamine

I'm not sure how I feel about a Pike-lite episode kicking off the season. Although I like that separating the party gave us more backstory on M'Benga. Ortegas next please?

Was the planet inspired by Zhangjiajie National Park?

Lastly, were I a captain my "thing" would either be "All in" or a comedic "Yatta!!!"

Blowing up a Crossfield class in an episode with real Klingons weeks after we learned of Discovery's cancellation feels quite loaded with subtext. Reminds me of DS9 blowing up a Galaxy class on screen within a week of TNG ending.

I must have really zoned out toward the end of Discovery because I thought it was over long ago.
- Discovery has been cancelled!? I must have missed that somehow 😢, was still hoping for a season 6.
Not sure if's actually a Crossfield, though. It looks different even if the transponder identified it as one. It was basically a kitbash.
- The Galaxy class in that DS9 episode had an entirely different bridge. Just because it had a different module installed, the frame was still Crossfield.
As someone who was once banned from the "subreddit" because I disagreed with the style choices of the STD Klingons, I finally feel vindicated.

Finally had time to watch it tonight and I thought it was great.

I feel like what seemed corny or off was on purpose. Spock is on a learning curve with his emotions/duty conundrum and we certainly felt that.

Looking forward to next week!

That was my interpretation too. I'm cautiously optimistic!
I also enjoyed this week's episode. I don't care for how close Spock and nurse Chapel are, but ok that's fine I guess lol

I hope to see more cooking.
- Before season 1, I was sceptical about what I'd heard of the direction they were taking with Chapel, but Jess Bush's depiction of her has been one of my favourite things about the show so far. I'm happy to see more of her and Spock working their way through this.

Enjoyed pretty much everything in this episode except the magic super steroids. The sequence went on for so long.. I assumed that I had forgotten something from last series because there’s no way they would have had this to hand the whole time and never thought to use it during any one of the many life and death emergencies?

That aside. Loved the rest of the episode and looking forward to where things go from here (plus really really happy to have weekly Trek again!)

there’s no way they would have had this to hand the whole time and never thought to use it during any one of the many life and death emergencies?

Ah, yes, the star trek classic!

I do agree, though. It was too long and too effective. A quick burst to make their way past the medical guards and into a turbolift would have been more believable and better paced.
- I want to see some serious side effects from that play out to explain why people don't use it more often.
I like to call it space meth, or smeth for short.
M'Benga had it. It sounds like he's maybe not supposed to have it.

I love the new engineer, but she sort of disappeared after Enterprise left space dock and didn't show back up until the conclusion. I figured a thrill seeker like her would have kept busy?

Carol Kane is awesome, but I kept waiting for her character to reveal she was faking the accent. It just sounded like someone doing a bit, and seemed so over the top I was sure it wasn’t serious.
- There are actors who always play themselves.
  
  With some of them, that's exactly what you want.
Engineering is a busy station.

I didn't really love this episode. I agree with other users that it feels a bit more DIS than SNW s1. I think maybe because of the pacing &/or the action, or maybe just how OTT the plot is, like stealing the Enterprise should be a bigger deal than it is here imo, it just feels a bit ... almost routine? Also I feel like I am the only person on the internet with this opinion, but I really like Spock's relationship with his fiancée and I don't particularly care for the whole Spock/Chapel sub-plot, soooo I am sad to see that continuing. I also didn't enjoy the overtly -> overly emotive Spock, it reminded me of the films, and the Chapel nearly dying bit again felt more DIS than SNW s1. Also, I counted like four different occasions of somebody remarking on Spock being a very un-Vulcan Vulcan, which really felt like a bit much...?

It was very nice to see more of M'Benga, though. He is a great character and I felt like we didn't see enough of him in s1. It felt weird having very little Pike or Number One, though. I hope this is not going to be the standard going forward, it feels like going backwards after SNW seemed to spend a whole season trying to reassure us that they understood what people hadn't liked about DIS?

Oh also -- the new chief engineer seems cool.

I didn’t really love this episode. I agree with other users that it feels a bit more DIS than SNW s1.

Haven't seen the episode and I stopped here, I just read it because that was something I was worried since the trailers... I really hope I'm wrong but it seemed a lot a new JJA Star Trek that I didn't dislike so much as others but I loved S1 because it was so similar to TOS.
- (Keeping my response spoiler free as far as I can to take your not having watched the show in account).
  
  I am diehard anti-disco, it just didn't do anything for me as a Star Trek show. I wouldn't quite peg it as Disco-like, I'd peg it as closer to Picard season 3 or maybe Dominion War-esque in tone and design. Touches on some interesting concepts, some interesting world building to fill out that era, and seems designed to add new nuances to expand on M'benga after his daughter situation was resolved season 1.
  
  I will say, I think the milage you'll get out of the episode is going to be pretty reliant on how much you like M'benga. He's one of my favourite characters in the series, so for me, I enjoyed the episode quite a bit. If you're not an M'benga fan, I can see you enjoying it quite a bit less.
- Some users in this post really loved it, it's probably worth checking out just in case. I will definitely be watching e2 at least, and I hope it will get back on track (according to my tastes).

Spock steals the Enterprise (again) -- what more could I ask for?

Also yeah -- I really love how SNW is establishing that Spock has been, in the words of Eleanor Shellstrop of The Good Place, a messy bench who loves drama, since, you know, forever. How did he put it? "I thought it was obvious. I am proposing we steal the Enterprise." Amazing.

This is a fine episode, but I felt it tried to take on too much when it absolutely did not need to. The stolen starship thing never felt purposeful. I presume its intent is to help set up why the enterprise is going so deep into klingon territory, but i’m just not sold on that. I think an espionage/stealth set up would’ve been a better balance (especially with later sneaking through the asteroids).

Others have brought up Spock’s emotion and how it’s seemingly exceeding TOS Spock. Personally, Im not too concerned with this. I tend to be pretty fast and lose with canon (i’m here to have fun, not stress over every thing). With that said, my best theory is that between now and The Cage, Spock will have some traumatic event which forces him to lock away his emotions further.

The Cage (in which Spock smiles and laughs) was set prior to season 2 of Discovery (in which Spock is an emotional mess) which was in turn set prior to season 1 of Strange New Worlds.

You probably mean The Menagerie in which he effortlessly and stoicly steals the Enterprise to return Pike to Talos IV (under penalty of death, no less).

But those events are several years away, and it should not come as a surprise to anyone but the most devout of Voyager fans that characters should develop and change over time.

Spock is a dyslexic half human who also just lost his adoptive sister only about a year ago, in a very traumatic and very classified fashion at that. And on top of that, he, like Burnham, is still learning what it means to be human after a youth of being forced to be exclusively Vulcan.

It is logical to assume that one's ability to conquer one's emotions should improve with age and with experience (outside of Trellium-induced brain damage or plot-device geriatric diseases). He certainly seems a lot more in control now than when he was throwing a temper tantrum in Burnham's quarters (despite his setback in SNW s01).

The whole point is experiencing the journey that gets Spock to that point. It is no different than Cadet Uhura versus Lieutenant Uhura.

Isn't that what Trek is supposed to be about? The human[oid] condition?
- Completely agreed about Spock's emotional journey. It's also important to note that Spock's relationship with the crew of the Enterprise is far more familial and personal at this time than it is TOS. Look at how Ortegas and Uhura tease him mercilessly on the bridge, and he indulges them with an air of bemusement. I think that by the time he becomes Jim Kirk's first officer, years from now, he will have seen this close-knit group of officers move on one by one... and as friends come and go, he'll adopt a more distanced, some might say more professional attitude, one that he considers befitting of an executive officer.

Season 2 is released? I just finished watching season 1 yesterday!

Good timing!
- A ~~wizard~~ Vulcan arrives precisely when he means to!

I'm doing my first watch of TOS and the instrument that Spock picks up is the same as in TOS 1x02. That was a cool little reference.

I thought it was a nice tough that we got to see how playing became a habit for him. We've seen him play more than once over the years, so this was a nice bit of backstory.

I'm only 14 minutes in, and I'm already way into this season.

First time I genuinely considered skipping the intro.

Have we ever heard of Lanthanites? Apparently they

spoiler

live such a long time they get bored and they are hiding on Earth in the 22nd century.

I wonder if they know about the El-Aurians or Q.

I'm pretty sure they're new to Trek! They don't yet have a page on Memory Alpha, though I imagine there will be by the end of the day.
I wouldn't be surprised. But I love how they just created a Guinan for SNW.
- I have the feeling Pike’s Constitution class ship wasn’t the first active-duty Starfleet ship named Enterprise Pelia sat foot on.
  
  Pelia could have been working with Starfleet during the 2150s and she assisted Archer and his crew on the NX-01 Enterprise at some point prior to its decommissioning in 2161.
  
  Pelia being around in the 22nd century also brings up the opportunity for references to ENT in SNW.
I also keep wondering about

spoiler

the El Aurians and Q in regard to this new race. If they've been there through a long stretch (at least?) of human history, some of these individuals must've encountered others at some point.

We could get all manner of fun new backstory bits this way.

I think this episode was fine. Glad to have it back, and hoping we don't have too many more breaks between shows again. :D

We're probably in for some of the biggest gaps yet once the pre-filmed content runs out since the writers are all on strike right now. We know that Discovery is mostly in the bank bar some reshoots and S4 of LD was already in animation stage by the time of the strike, but after that is no man's land.
- Does LD have WGA writers? I thought they were TAG, not WGA. TAG isn't on strike.

I understand if I get a slew of downvotes, but I thought that episode was pretty bad. The pacing was weird and many of the sequences involving the mining planet felt poorly written (what's with the Witcher potion?). I feel like I'm the only person not into the whole Spock/Chapel thing, so seeing that pushed harder was cringe for me.

I agree completely. This Episode was not very good. Star Trek is best when smart people come up with brilliant ways to solve a problem. Beating up 20 klingons with super potion is just lazy writing and dumb. Stealing the Enterprise was unnecessary. Just write the Admiral to not be a dumbass and allow the mission.
I like the Spock/Chapel ship but you’re dead on with everything else.
Don't forget the money hungry selfish plotters suddenly on a suicide mission

WE ARE BACK!!!! :D

I feel like I have waited so long and it was worth it, while at first I wasn't bought entirely on the action, it really came together at the end.

I loved the entire part of Spock stealing the Enterprize for the first time of many and April's unintentional implications for the future. SNW keeps proving it has the Trek energy, yes it might stumble some, I can understand questions about magic steroids (it's a bit out there even for me but I am also surprised it took this long to have it, but maybe its not meant for combat actually but some medical thing?)

But it doesn't change that the quality of this show is so high, this really manages to capture the feelings of the older series, DS9 and TNG but also with a certain high quality to it.

Loved seeing the Crossfield get another showing and how the D7 has become the mainstay. I like that we get some more traditional trek ships out there. That feel like the older ones.

Klingon blood wine drinking with Spock was amazing.

I also loved Pellia and haven't heard of the lanthenians before but something about the half crazy old lady character is just amazing.

I laughed so much, felt so much heart warming. But then also feeling my heart ripped out with the memory to Nichelle and seeing that she has passed. I remember reading it but had kinda lost track of it.

I am so looking forward to more episodes of this <3

SNW definitely feels like it is deliberately channeling TOS energy far more than any other iteration. It is strongly adventure focused, and many situations are resolved with fisticuffs rather than diplomacy. The galaxy feels far more chaotic and less organized than it does from TNG onward. Even aesthetic stuff like the red crystal asteroid field feels more drawn from the wild sci-fi ideas of the 1960s, before the more mundane realties of space exploration made it clear that space was really just a lot of empty space with occasional patches of dirt and rocks.
Adding to green drug thing, as I don't know how to edit here. I could see it being something created maybe by M'benga or some angry, traumatized federation soldiers during the war to get back at the Klingon's, potentially being illegal in the federation but very localized here.
- Oh, what if it's a World War 3-era combat drug, like the stuff Q alludes to soldiers being addicted to in Encounter at Farpoint?
- Fyi, to edit comments, click on the three vertical dots at the bottom -- that will open a context menu that has the edit button in it: https://imgur.com/ftJ5HRO.
I feel like I have waited so long

[Skip Intro]

What a way to start the season! I love that they're leaning hard into the TOS vibe.

There's a lot to pick apart if you really wanted to, but frankly it's hard for me to get hung up on minutae when the characters and universe are so spot on. Some good starship porn in there too. What an adventure! Gene would be more than happy with this one I think.

Quite enjoyable, although I agree with some other commenters that it wasn't the strongest premiere. I thought the green juice and whole Chapel/M'Benga plotline was particularly rough, though dealing with the PTSD could be interesting in the future. It just felt rather un-Star Trekky in an otherwise solid show.

I'm also slightly unsure about how far they are going in regards to Spocks journey. I did like that they had an in-universe fairly believable reason for it from last seasons episode with the Gorn. I like that the show has a consequence for Spock, and I certainly don't hate it but just a bit cautious and curious where it's heading.

Otherwise I thoroughly enjoyed the episode, even with so little of Pike. The other characters are very solid and I liked that they toned down some of the quips and such. Looking forward to the rest of the season.

There's for sure some prequel-itis going on here, where this show's depiction of Spock is at adds with the journey we later see him go on. I find it useful to try and think of each installment independently from the others and ignore the "canon".
- Yeah I keep a fairly open mind about these new shows and whatever retconning they end up doing. I also really do enjoy Peck in the role, I think he's doing a great job.

Fun episode, but bits and pieces always felt a little off. Pelia was fantastic - love seeing competent non-main-characters in any sort of fiction.

Chapel/Spock... ugh. Not so much.

Whats with the wierd "Crossfield" class?

I'm going with the thought that others have posted, since it's probably quite unlikely that the Klingons just stole an entire ship, that this ship must've been hacked together out of salvage from the War.

I bet we're going to see that Pelia was involved in things during the ENT era, and possibly also that she might connect to Scotty too.
Might be the standard Crossfield, with Discovery and Glenn being modified variants to support the spore drive.
Oh my gosh, I agree about Chapel/Spock! I thought I was the only person in the world.

Not bad, but felt very Discovery in tone and aesthetic. I'm hoping future episodes match season 1's vibe.

I agree, too much over the top action for my tastes, and the super serum was pretty silly. At least the Klingons were handled well. I like the look of them this season far better than anything else from this era of new Trek. They acted like Klingons too.

Nice episode, I was expecting a cliffhanger at the end showing what Pike was up to.

I am curious about the Lanthanites, I’ve had visitor before, like Guinan in 1890s, but a whole species living among side humans, maybe they don’t have a big population, I bet they could be the origin of many human myths. I wonder what was their reason.

Maybe It will help with Una’s trial, since both pretended to be humans.

Also, in TOS there was about an Immortal Human, maybe he was a Lanthanite and just didn’t know.

I am unsure how Lanthanites can have a distinct accent if they spent centuries successfully blending in, but I agree that it's interesting.
- Structural differences in their larynx, tongue, or lips seem likely.
- Maybe they first arrived in Romania, centuries ago, or some such.
  
  Then once Earth discovered Romanians (or whatever) are actually different species, it put a lot of things in perspective.
  
  (like, the legends of vampires?)
- Blending in doesn't mean they wholly abandoned their original culture. It just means that humans never got to see it.
Her accent is Dracula. She's a vampire. 😊

If they had super-soldier drugs the whole time why didn't they use them against the gorn or any other combat that occurred in season 1?

Presumably they have nasty side effects and the only reason they resorted to them here was because the only other option was oblivion.

I'd like to see them going through some bad consequences of using that stuff.
- I would be surprised if it doesn't come up again
my presumption is that M'Benga has it, and it's his personal supply, that would be at best frowned upon, at worst, illegal for him to have.
Way back in 'Encounter at Farpoint' Q when dressed as a soldier of one of the armies of World War III was shown using a retractable stimulant dispenser. Not sure if the green stuff was intended as a nod towards that.

To be honest when I was watching the scene I thought I had missed something from last season. Threw me off balance for the rest of the episode.
- I also thought I forgot something from last season, it's literally why I checked reddit and wound up here. Regardless of if prior lore established the existence of these stimulants, the fact that there was basically no discussion of what they are or the fact the doctor carries them around before they use them was very jarring.
- That's where my mind went as well
I mean I've been thinking that about the entire genetic modification thing, even last season.
Maybe its use is prohibited in the federation and they only had access due to being on the extremists' ship?

I do annotations for every episode on DaystromInstitute, noting references and so on. Do I post the one I’ve done for “The Broken Circle” here or wait for Sunday?

That's an interesting question - I suggest DMing one of the Daystrom mods to find out their opinion.

We're coordinating our "mod-directed" posts if that makes sense, but each community is still autonomous.
- I’ve put it up as a post on /c/daystrominstitute.
  
  https://startrek.website/post/14437

Was that a TOS style California-class docked next to the Enterprise early on?

I think it was an Archer-Class, same ship Number One was one in the first episode.

Well here we go. Let’s try this out

That space jump sequence was the best part of the episode. I felt that.

I just wish it wasn't the same "we're about to have to jump into space" scene that I've seen on countless other TV shows.
I kind of wished they had made more of an effort to wrap their faces and hands first, just to drive home the peril they were in.

I guess I just have to accept that in this version of Star Trek, science is magic, and so they didn't worry about the possibility they might survive but be horribly disfigured by frostbite. I have to remind myself that this is a franchise where people can change their appearance into a completely different species and then revert back without any apparent scarring.
- Having not seen the episode, do some people get spaced?
  If so, and assuming there isn't any other shenanigans, you don't need to worry about the cold. Space tends to be cold, but its also just barely even there. No air means no convection, and that means you'll only get cold very slowly. Much too slowly for it to matter in this situation.
  Your biggest concerns are going to be preparation (don't hold your breath!) and getting back to an atmosphere as soon as possible.
  
  The problem here is its kinda a meme. PIC S3 also did this, with Vadic, though she was a changeling.
- I think we've always had a degree of suspension of disbelief.
- "Just wave some blue light over it" - Beckett Mariner
- in this version of Star Trek, science is magic
  
  Science is magic in every version of Star Trek. TOS has Mind Melds and Greek Gods. Throughout the TNG era is the implication that evolution has a will of its own that can't (or mustn't) be subverted. DS9's main character eventually learns he's a demigod.
- To be fair, despite what sci-fi will tell you frostbite is not a concern if you're jumping into space without a suit, so the fact that they were frozen at all is artistic license. You'll die from hypoxia long before you even begin to get chilly.

Overall, a pretty good episode! I am slightly conflicted - I really like the character development of this Spock, but it's also less and less feeling like the Spock we'll eventually see in TOS. As the Klingon captain said, 'the least Vulcan like Vulcan ever' - whereas Spock in TOS is trying to suppress his human side and it takes him till like Star Trek VI to actually act on a hunch. But I am also conflicted as I really like this character too.

The stealing the Enterprise scene, I think Search for Spock is laughing... The CGI of the Enterprise manuvering away from space dock and escaping to warp was amazing though - one of the best uses of 3D space in Star Trek ever but pausing for like 5 minutes whilst stealing a ship to decide what his 'line' is going to be... I wish the new series would stop their pre-ocupation with this, it's kind of famous because Picard uses Engage and Make It So enough to be memeable, but most of the time people from Kirk to Janeway to Sisko also use Engage. (Kirk also frequently uses warp speed Mr sulu, and ahead warp factor 1, take her out, first star to the left and straight on till morning.) And so every captain doesn't have their thing. Pike's 'hit it' is ok, but 'Let's Fly' is kinda dumb and 'I want to go, now' is out of character and just a really unnecessary part of the story. It's also not going to be memeable when it's forced.

I really didn't like the scene where M'Benga and Chapel use some kind of drug to give them super strength to fight off a whole ship of Klingons and then the torture scene? Star Trek should be cleverer than that and made me lose respect for both of the characters. At least the Klingons look like Klingons again.

I like the new chief engineer a lot more than I thought I was going too though!

Star Trek has always been kind of lax when officers disobeying orders save the day, but I thought the admiral should have been angrier and I really hope there's a scene in episode 2 where Pike and Spock talk about it.

They soft landed Spock's thing.

Next time he'll give the order, and the crew will wait for the full delivery, and he'll juat say Now. And the jije will be complete.
I suspect we'll see Spock go so far in the other direction over this series, to try to compensate, that it puts him back where TOS starts.

Yeah the 'line' stuff.. ugh. But hopefully he'll get a second chance and do better :D this was only his first day of his 3 day command! lol

My watch partners also thought that the super serum drug was a bit out there, but I think it was expressed well with M'Benga's trauma from the Klingon war, my guess is that he "always" carries that around because he was always under threat of being attacked on whatever moon it was he was stationed on, and sometimes had to use it. Old habits die hard, especially if you're going into action with the people you were at war with.

It's not like they had time to work out a diplomatic solution in this case. And likely they wouldn't have been able to. Pass off the diplomatic resolution to later in the plot, for Spock, the future master diplomat.

I imagine Pelia is going to be a gem of a character. I hope she gets more time, too.

Admirals tend to relax when it turns out that the actions the officers took were the correct path.

Also, the Klingons looked much more Discovery like than TOS like, but with the dark skin tone and hair from TNG.
- I'm not necessarily suggesting that they'd need to use diplomacy, but they could have somehow captured phasers or it turns out that Chapel was with Pike on Discovery (as at least the saucer of this ship was Crossfield class) and she knew where the Jeffries tubes were to get them where they needed to be. They could have told one of the Klingons that they'd had a medical emergency reported in the transporter room and they needed to get there fast. If they were playing the trauma from the Klingon war angle, I think all of the references are really too abstract for us as an audience to get that and I don't think the scene was quite good enough to give us a mystique.
Yeah the scene for nurse chapel and M'benga felt out of place for star trek.

I think it could have been interesting exploring war trauma from the kilingon war, I just don't really see how violence and vengeance is the best way to do that.
- I think the play is that they're going to spend an episode or two setting up either withdrawal symptoms, or more likely, a resumption of the guilt he felt after the war (casualties he caused as a result of using the super soldier serum. Perhaps he even created/isolated it in the first place and is disheartened by the violence it enables?).
  
  I don't think this episode was meant to explore the trauma, but 'teasing' future plotlines about M'Benga's culpability and/or guilt over the stuff. Remember, Chapel reminds him that he hates it and wonders why he keeps some on him, and he responds that while he does hate it , it might come in handy someday.
  
  I think that serum is what gets him demoted. He and/or Chapel are certainly going to use it again in a situation where he can't just omit it from the after-action report. And if it's S31, then he definitely will get in trouble for holding some.
Stopping to discuss his departure line in the middle of stealing the ship was so cringy and immersion breaking for me. "I want to go" also seems very illogical for a Vulcan to use as a command. Wants are irrelevant, what are your orders? Wants don't always align with needs.

Drugs turning a doctor and nurse into super fighters that can easily take out masses of Klingons seems a bit over the top and not like a great message to send. Sometimes fights are unavoidable, but the best self preservation is to find ways to sneak around and gain an advantage in numbers and location (pluck one person off away from the group or set up a bottleneck, incapacitate with environment controls or drugs), not hope you can overpower a dozen or more enemies when you've only got two people. More contact means more risk of injuries, surely there's no such thing as an immunity serum that prevents all injury.

I am curious to see if they touch more on the war trauma because that is an interesting story itself. It was shoehorned in awkwardly here, but I'd like to see it explored more.

I'm not loving the new engineer, her personality is a bit grating for me and I don't see why you'd be allowed to transfer from a teaching position to working on the ship you just helped steal. It's one thing to not want to replace an entire ship's crew after an incident, it's another to reward non-crew for misbehavior with a choice assignment to the ship. She also has such a weird way of introducing herself to her friend's son. I don't get it.
- "I want to go" also seems very illogical for a Vulcan to use as a command.
  
  "Make it go" was already taken.
What I hope for with M'Benga and Chapel is that we'll get to see some consequences of using that super soldier drug. Like, it has bad health effects, but M'Benga is like the traumatized soldier who can't sleep without a knife or gun under his pillow in case he's attacked (Chapel remarks that he carries the green stuff with him). It could be used really well to portray several different trauma/addiction issues. Now we wait to see how they handle it.

For me that was surprisingly good, by the end I thoroughly enjoyed it.

If my memory is correct, this episode contained more than half of the scenes from the trailers, most of which were theorized to be from different episodes.

That leaves two possibilities:

this episode is the most interesting episode, which would be unfortunate but not unheardof for Paramount
the best is yet to come, and we have no idea what's coming.

I choose to believe the second, for now, and I'm excited.

So, I used to work in TV marketing at the network level and I can tell you typically trailers are made up of the first three episodes or less. No real secret why though - usually the show is still working on the other episodes.
In one of the panels Anson Mount was saying that if you think the Lower Decks cross-over episode was the craziest thing they've done for season 2, we would be surprised what else to see, so yeah, I think we are in for a good treat.

Perhaps M’Benga has a stash of the serum Bones will later give Kirk so he can survive his fight with Spock in TOS Amok Time.

I don't think it's the same serum, in Amok Time the serum is used to make Kirk fake his death, not win the fight.
- I was thinking about the hypospray McCoy gave Kirk to ‘adjust for the difference in oxygen levels and other environmental conditions.’
  
  From the time I first watched the episode as a young child, I reasoned that there had to have been something more in the hypospray. Even in Earth-like conditions and gravity, Kirk wouldn’t last a minute against a Vulcan engaged by Pon Farr. McCoy wouldn’t have hesitated to add in a combat serum if he thought it would give Kirk a chance to survive.
  
  (This was validated by the discussion of who and how someone could fight Vorik in Voyager before B’Elanna decided to take him on herself.)
@StillPaisleyCat that serum was a total ‘wait, what just happened here?’ for me..

I liked it, but it didn’t have enough Pike.

Doesn't that make it better? TOS had Kirk but it wasn't about Kirk. SNW has Pike but it isn't about Pike. They're both about the Enterprise, its crew, and its missions(s).
- maybe not for episode 1
Always need more Pike!
Was Pike's hair a little, err, smaller?

God damn I enjoyed the shit out of that!

At first glance I was unsure about the new engineer but by the end of her first scene I loved her. I wish she was featured a bit more but I'm sure we will see more soon.

Spock is the man!

Carol Kane seems like she's being set up as the central mystery or resolution of this season. Too many little nods that she is more than she seems, even when what she seems is already pretty fantastical.

Have we heard of the Lanthanites before? The concept of an entire race of "nearly immortal" aliens living on earth undetected until the 22nd century (starting when??) was a pretty serious infodump. I wonder if that's just worldbuilding or if it'll prove important later on.
- Since we know there's going to be a time travel episode, seems like they could be setting her up to appear there like Guinan did in Time's Arrow.
- It seems to be a totally brand new "we're going to pretend it's been there all along and nobody every mentioned it before" race of aliens. I'm curious to see how they develop this idea.
Carol Kane was a absolute delight. I just kept expecting her to say "have fun storming the castle!"

I would like the strange and new to go. Now.

~~That's a cryptic comment. Is this going to be one of those "I hate everything new about Star Trek but I keep watching it for some reason anyway" things?~~
- Not at all. I love the new. I want more new.
  
  This show is great. But I wish the title had gone to something different.
- He's parodying Spock's "I would like the ship to go........ Now."

I think this got things off to a reasonable start, but it doesn't feel like the strongest episode out of the gate. Maybe it's because the show deliberately chooses not take on the cliffhanger of the last season in the first episode. Starting the season with only part of the cast undertaking the mission I think also makes the episode feel a bit slight.

It's also a bit of a darker episode than the last season, but I'm not sure if engaging with the Klingon civil war aftermath is actually necessary in this episode. In fact, leaving out the Klingon stuff here would make it a bit less stodgy to me. I guess there is some curiosity as to what SNW characters were doing during the war, but it really feels like here, the only reason they framed this entire episode around the war was so that M'Benga and Chapel could juice themselves up with a substance that they never quite introduce before using it and Die Hard Klingons for a chunk of the episode. There's maybe some M'Benga trauma, but giving the character another trauma moment where some (particularly Ortegas) remain comparatively lightly characterized feels...meh.

It's probably all the Discovery elements, both in plot and in set design on screen, that make me feel this way, but I was hoping that Discovery would learn the best lessons from Strange New Worlds. This episode has me slightly worried that instead of that, Strange New Worlds may be learning some bad lessons from Discovery. That said I'm hoping things get better across the season. I thought this was good but just not quite what I wanted from the season opener.

Can we talk about that weird camera roll during the M’Benga / Chapel fight scene? Usually thats done when gravity is changing, but here the camera flipped, they went through a hatch to a lower level, then the camera rolled over again. What was that all about?

I noticed that too, and I have no idea. It's not like they were even in spave where gravity could be turned off.
- I would think their gravity technology would work on the surface of a planet just as well as in space, making whatever surface one wants into a floor, but yeah, why would you?

Is this post tagged NSFW for spoilers?

That was the idea. Is it having a visible effect?
- Loved the episod! Ethan Peck owned it and now I can't wait to see even more of Carol Kane's character.
  
  I am curious though, are the writers hinting at a future "Jekyll & Hyde" plot line when it comes to M'Benga and that green battle juice that he apparently keeps with himself at all times?

Anybody else feel like the space battle was trying to mimic the Expanse style?

Unfortunately didnt seem to work as well. The Expanse puts a lot of detail and thought into combat, and the setting seems more fit for it somehow.

Actually the entire having to jump into space without a space suit was what reminded me of The Expanse more.
- Its consequences didn't, though. When you jump into space unprotected, it's not the cold that will kill ya'. Vacuum is the best isolator after all. Water wouldn't condensate on you into frost crystals, it would instantly evaporate because in 0 Pascals the boiling point of water is far below normal body temperature.
  
  What will kill you though, is hypoxia. Also, lung damage if you get blown out into vacuum without warning. Though a: it's still survivable even with 20th century medical attention, and b: given that these were two medical professionals who are working on a spaceship and they knew it was about to happen, they probably knew how to minimize the damage. But the hypoxia is still there.
It because the Expanse, mostly, works with real physics when they fight. Trek has never, either on screen or in canon, needed to worry about that as they have things like inertial dampeners and structural integrity fields.

So, bit of a mixed bag. I enjoyed Spock smashing bloodwine, and the general idea of the plot, decent Klingons etc. I did not enjoy unexplained spacewar drugs, feels like a very non-Star Trek thing.

That being said, I really wish they would stop harping the "do the thing do the thing" angle every time anyone sits in the Captain's chair. It's been in every show now and it's just such a tired and stale joke that it's moved over time from being funny, to tiring, to outright annoying.

The big problem with the joke here is it’s totally the wrong moment. They’ve disobeyed orders and “stolen” the enterprise but haven’t actually gotten away yet… don’t just sit there messing around!
To add to this, I think I've formulated my total issue with the angle a bit better. The whole stealing the Enterprise plot was done incredibly casually, and I think they could have used the time they wasted on The Joke They Always Do (which was quite a bit, this was a notably long one) to make that whole sequence a bit more inspired.

Additionally, I really wish productions would talk to each other more. This joke was literally in the last episode of Picard and the first episode of SNW. Assuming you watched no Star Trek inbetween this is back-to-back The Joke.
+1 for the complaint on the 'do the thing' comment. I feel like it's because engage/make it so have become somewhat of a meme from Picard in TNG and they're looking to replicate that.

But the idea every captain has their thing is one seemingly from the new Treks. In the past series, engage is used frequently by Kirk, Janeway and Sisko. (Kirk also frequently uses warp speed Mr sulu, ahead warp factor 1, take her out, first star to the left and straight on till morning etc.) They've been really pushing 'let's fly' from Discovery, but it's a terrible line and trying to force it just makes it cringy. I wish they'd used that time to expand the stealing the Enterprise plot a little more.

I really enjoyed this one. It felt fun. Who doesn't love a good "steal the Enterprise" plot?

They're clearly gonna push the Chapel/Spock ship. I'm broadly fine with this but I do wonder how they will reconcile it with canon Spock/Chapel (or if they'll just abandon it - which I'm also fine with).

I don't really have an issue with the green super drug. I hope we get to hear more about their time together during the Klingon War. Guessing we will based on this. But it was a cool sequence and I'm good with it.

I'm curious if that fake Federation ship was a variant of the Crossfield or just something cobbled together by those folks. I imagine we'll get some clarification from the design people at some point.

Loving the current Klingon design. I didn't really mind the Disco re-imagining but this feels like a good compromise. And that Spock made peace over bloodwine. And ended up with a hangover.

And, for me, I'm fine with The Joke. I like Ortegas' and the background that some Captain says "Zoom!" Spock's left a bit to be desired, but I laughed.

undefined> I’m broadly fine with this but I do wonder how they will reconcile it with canon Spock/Chapel (or if they’ll just abandon it - which I’m also fine with).

I think they were setting Chapel up to go off for a couple of months, which is probably where she'll meet her future fiance.
- @FormerGameDev @cadamar Does she have a fiance in TOS?
I woulda liked "four nostrils, but otherwise the TNG design" to become the standard.
- @LibraryLass The Klingons are supposed to have an empire, right? Trek never really explores this. Why should there only be one type of Klingon?

So good to have SNW back!

Loved the episode in general, but there are some interesting decisions with this episode I'd like to get into, like the green power-up juice.

That seemed odd to me. Usually on a Star Trek show the ship's doctor and a trainee nurse would easily be able to kick the crap out of a dozen or so Klingons to save the day. And I'm not even joking, the crew of Deep Space 9 were absolute murder machines when they got going.

Thing is I sort of liked it, I liked that for once on a Trek show "We can't just beat up all of these people on our own" was presented as a plot point, because it usually isn't. I expect that there will be consequences.

As to whether it could or should be a thing, I mean this is a show where people can be teleported, so the idea that they might have some kind of super bull-shark testosterone quad damage power up in their med-kits seems perfectly reasonable.

It does however beg questions about why it isn't used more. And that I think is likely going to be a question we get an answer to this season. I also think it might be connected to why Mbenga will ultimately end up being replaced by McCoy*.

*Slight tangent, but McCoy's bigoted attitude towards Spock in TOS is going to hit so differently if they keep it for SNW, assuming he ever were to appear on the show.

undefined> Usually on a Star Trek show the ship’s doctor and a trainee nurse would easily be able to kick the crap out of a dozen or so Klingons to save the day.

although we've been told time and time again, that Klingons are stronger, hardier, and better fighters than humans.
It's very un-Star Trek for drugs to have major Hulk-like benefits with zero downside. That scene was cool, but I agree with you it would be strange if we don't see any consequences.
- Agree. That action sequence was also unusually long too. I mean, it might be cool to watch, but it didn't really serve the plot it any way.
- There wasn't quite zero downside. M'Benga almost killed that guy he was interrogating, which is not only counter to his usual personality but a poor decision in an interrogation, so the potion at least interferes with reasoning somewhat or amps up anger.

They're continuing to have fun with it, something I think Berman Trek largely did away with sometime around season 3 of TNG. I love Star Trek when it takes itself seriously but I also love when it remembers the premise is a little silly. I'm not sure I buy the notion that a criminal syndicate built a Crossfield out of spare parts like they have their own personal Tony Stark, but it's a fun mystery to solve. Also I'm hoping for an explanation for whatever that Temp-V stuff was Spock and Chapel injected themselves with.

I mean, it was telegraphed in S1 but there are definitely going to be some Gorn retcons this season.

I'm fine with this! But it was already tough to reconcile what we saw in S1 with later crews, "attending Gorn weddings" (much harder, imo, than the more reasonable 'they have been encountered, just in a limited capacity and with few survivors) and a full on invasion plotline - featuring Spock and Uhura no less - makes Arena tough to reconcile.

Again, that's fine!

I like the current Klingon design, though I wish they had kept the double nostril from DIS. The redesign went too far but their attempt to physically show the Klingon's redundant biology was appreciated.

The actual episode's plot was...fine. A bit rushed. Felt like a Mass Effect sidequest which is fine for an ep but hopefully not the feeling of the season as a whole. Establishing the character's war experiences and generally situating the series as post-war is probably necessary for the rest of the season. I have to wonder if they went out of their way to only show Spock and Pelia with the Klingons given other crew.....probably aren't ready to split a barrel of bloodwine.

Speaking of Pelia: a race of immortals living in secret alongside humanity and now just regular, serving members of Starfleet? Identifiable by accent even? It's a BIG swing and probably the most interesting (though for now unexplored) idea in the episode.

On the Crossfield refit...presumably from the 'shell' style associated with the pre-TOS ships (as seen in DIS Binary Stars sequence) with the Enterprise's modernized plating? Probably would have been simpler to just have a new class.

The Broken Circle. Back to Strange New Worlds and Pike’s Dilemma and Una being arrested. Oh no.

Beautiful opening shot of the station! wow!

“Pike: … But even from afar I sense a tension here among the brass that I can’t pin down.”

I know how you feel Pike. gestures vaguely at how we are currently at rebellion with our former ‘home’

“Pike: Hey, you won’t have to leave space dock.”

“Spock: What is the human expression? Famous last words.”

Some foreshadowing there? Is Spock just going to have an easy time relaxing in Spacedock?

Dr: M’benga: "When you unleashed your anger to combat the Gorn, you removed those blocks. Now all your emotions are flowing more freely. "

Oh shit, is this setting up some more aggressive spock?

“Dr. M’benga: You’ll just have to learn to live with them. Like we all do.”

YES! THE HARP!

Uh oh, distress signal from La’An and Spock has to help out!

“The answer is obvious. We must STEAL THE ENTERPRISE”

OH YEAH! HERE WE GOOOOOOO!

“… Yes, you can always count on a Vulcan’s inability to lie. Another things I know about Vulcans. They don’t do things without a good reason. Do you have a good reason to steal the ship?”

“Spock: I am having what humans call, a ‘hunch’”

“A vulcan with a hunch, that’s a new one. And not just any Vulcan. Amanda Grayson’s Son.”

Well shit, she knows Spock’s mom. What’s up?

“If you’re going to steal a Starship, do it correctly!”

I love this lady’s very dry sarcasm!!!

“OH PLEASE. WE CAN SPEND A LOT OF TIME TALKING ABOUT THIS. OR WE CAN GO. You decide.”

“Spock: Vent the Nacelles on my mark.”

HERE WE GOOO

“Oh I just noticed you don’t have a chief engineer!”

"Be happy to sub in. Been a /Hundred/ years since I’ve gone out with Engines of my own. (A hundred years? Really?) It’s a long story. A really long story.

“Spock: The Starbase will have to wait. Cajitar system. Warp factor 5. …”

"Ortegas: You going to say it? Your thing?

“Spock: My what?”

“Ortega: Your thing. You know. Everyone in the chair has their thing.”

“Uhura: Captain Pike always says: ‘Hit it’”.

"My last captain liked to say “Zoom”

“Spock: Do you have a thing?”

“Ortegas: Well, I’ve been workshopping… ‘vamanos’ but it’s supposed to be about you. What kind of commander are you? All that. So no presh ;)”

“Spock: I would like the ship to go. Now.”

GOOOOOOOOOOOO

Those Klingon ridges are GORGEOUS

I like how La’An was surprised by Uhura’s promotion, “Wait, you’re ensign now?!”

“Chapel: Are you sure you want to do this again?”

“M’benga: Again, no. But I’m not seeing a better choice.”

And they hypospray themselves with that stuff that alters their physical power and kick Klingon ass wow.

Chapel’s in serious distress, and M’benga has the really intense look in his eyes.

Ortegas as snappy as ever, “70%” "Ortegas: Copy. That is the last time they dent our paint job. "

M’benga being EXTREMELY practical about getting off the stolen (and soon to be destroyed) ship

"M’benga: I can use the altitude jet to guide us away from the ship. (Only we’ll be dead) Not necessarily. It’ll take almost a minute for us to freeze to death. Don’t worry. We’ll pass out after 15 seconds. I know it’s a terrible idea. (Chapel: Yeah, it’s terrible. Let’s get to it then. )

OH MY GOD THEY DO A TRANSPORTR PERSPECTIVE YAYY!!

… and they’re FROZEN. And Chapel’s nearly dead :(((( Spock’s giving it his all!!

“Spock: I waited for you. You do not die!”

And we have an episode of near death! Our main characters are not immune from rough times. :|

Spock plays negotiator real well with the Klingons, and all he had to do was throw down the bloodwine.

“You drink bloodwine?”

“Spock: I have been known to.”

“This is something I must see. You’re no typical Vulcan.”

"Spock: No. It would seem I am not.

And our engineer has an ear for Klingon language.

"Well, uh, listen, I think my Klingon might be a little rusty, but did he just say, “May your blood scream”?

Spock: A Klingon toast the true meaning of which is becoming clear to me.

“You want to know the worst thing about living almost forever? (The loss of those you love?) Oh you sweet un-vulcan Vulcan, no. That’s a pain shared by all who live with even a half-open heart. No. It’s BOREDOM. And on that ship of yours, there seems to be a shortage of that. I like it. I might even stick around.” … TO THE VULCAN WHO ACTS NOTHING LIKE A VULCAN!

But alas, that Bloodwine resulted in quite a hangover.

"April: Consider that hangover your punishment. But next time, it’s your commission.

I like how we opened with a very contained episode. We got a lot out of M’benga and Chapel’s history.

Poor Chapel recovering rom being frozen in outer space… And Spock’s doing his best to calm his emotions with music. May he develop some deep meditative songs to heal this ache.

A beautiful dedication for our original communications officer.

"For Nichelle, who was first through the door and showed us the stars.

Hailing frequencies forever open."

Beautiful start to the season.

I guess Una’s trial is coming up.

Upon further reflection, I feel like this episode undermines the plot of "The Galileo Seven". Spock is a very able commander in 2x01 when years later he struggles on an away mission…

Episode Discussion | Star Trek: Strange New Worlds | 2x01 "The Broken Circle"