Official statement regarding recent Greg' commit 6e90b675cf942e from Serge Semin
Hello Linux-kernel community,
I am sure you have already heard the news caused by the recent Greg' commit
6e90b675cf942e ("MAINTAINERS: Remove some entries due to various compliance
requirements."). As you may have noticed the change concerned some of the
Ru-related developers removal from the list of the official kernel maintainers,
including me.
The community members rightly noted that the quite short commit log contained
very vague terms with no explicit change justification. No matter how hard I
tried to get more details about the reason, alas the senior maintainer I was
discussing the matter with haven't given an explanation to what compliance
requirements that was. I won't cite the exact emails text since it was a private
messaging, but the key words are "sanctions", "sorry", "nothing I can do", "talk
to your (company) lawyer"... I can't say for all the guys affected by the
change, but my work for the community has been purely volunteer for more than
a year now (and less than half of it had been payable before that). For that
reason I have no any (company) lawyer to talk to, and honestly after the way the
patch has been merged in I don't really want to now. Silently, behind everyone's
back, bypassing the standard patch-review process, with no affected
developers/subsystem notified - it's indeed the worse way to do what has been
done. No gratitude, no credits to the developers for all these years of the
devoted work for the community. No matter the reason of the situation but
haven't we deserved more than that? Adding to the GREDITS file at least, no?..
I can't believe the kernel senior maintainers didn't consider that the patch
wouldn't go unnoticed, and the situation might get out of control with
unpredictable results for the community, if not straight away then in the middle
or long term perspective. I am sure there have been plenty ways to solve the
problem less harmfully, but they decided to take the easiest path. Alas what's
done is done. A bifurcation point slightly initiated a year ago has just been
fully implemented. The reason of the situation is obviously in the political
ground which in this case surely shatters a basement the community has been built
on in the first place. If so then God knows what might be next (who else might
be sanctioned...), but the implemented move clearly sends a bad signal to the
Linux community new comers, to the already working volunteers and hobbyists like
me.
Thus even if it was still possible for me to send patches or perform some
reviews, after what has been done my motivation to do that as a volunteer has
simply vanished. (I might be doing a commercial upstreaming in future though).
But before saying goodbye I'd like to express my gratitude to all the community
members I have been lucky to work with during all these years.
Honestly must be incredibly stressful managing a project like the Linux kernel. Governments constantly wanting changes made for their own purposes, companies leeching off the work of volunteers, neck beards losing their minds over some change they don't like.
I don't envy them at all. This sort of change was inevitability going to piss people off - it could have been handled better but I think it was going to be lose/lose no matter which way it was done.
neck beards losing their minds over some change they don't like.
Ughhh, it was so infuriating hearing that guy rant about how Rust was bad and was trying to take over at that conference. I felt so bad for the speaker.
I personally think this is a cop out. Obviously people would have been outraged either way, but personally my only issue is about how it was done. The whole point of the FOSS community is openness and transparency. The senior maintainers of arguably the most important FOSS project trying to operate secretively on something like this has shattered my trust in them, as well as many others.
My main concern with this happening is how much secret control the US government has over top Linux maintainers. Many commenters say that Linus couldn't refuse the request from the government because he lives in the US and Linux Foundation is in the US. So what other requests from the government known to put backdoors into software they couldn't refuse in the past or won't be able to refuse in the future?
So you realize they have no choice and couldn't have done any differently but you're still irrationally upset about it so you decided to become the tone police?
The senior maintainers of arguably the most important FOSS project trying to operate secretively on something like this has shattered my trust in them, as well as many others.
Basically, my stand on this.
And that it was dismissed like it was "no big deal" by Linus and some of the other senior maintainers.
But seriously, Linus's comment regarding this was... just... I have no words... he basically put every Russian in the same basket, called them trolls and added a racist comment on top of that, I mean... yeah, I lost all respect for him. At least his previous fits were about code and only if someone fucked up something, this is completely different.
It's pretty hard to be open and transparent when 2 men with guns and black suits are sitting at your kitchen table.
We don't know if that happened, but given the speed this happened and the us being the us...
If it breaks that they had a long runway of knowing this had to happen, then sure bring out the pitchforks, but imo we should default to this happening under heavy pressure to act immediately.
Please accept all of our apologies for the way this was handled. A summary of the legal advice the kernel is operating under is
If your company is on the U.S. OFAC SDN lists, subject to an OFAC sanctions program, or owned/controlled by a company on the list, our ability to collaborate with you will be subject to restrictions, and you cannot be in the MAINTAINERS file.
Which is exactly what anyone who wasn't wanting to just snort some concentrated outrage knew was the case.
And you can argue as to if OFAC list should apply to things like this or not, but the problem is that the enforcement options for OFAC violations include 'stomp you into the ground until you're powder', most people are just going to comply.
Oh hey, a reasonable comment here that actually has a decent score... These comments are wild. But given the recent... I'll just say, conspicuously pro-Russian, turn this site seems to have taken in the run up to the election, it's not exactly a surprise.
Again, we're really sorry it's come to this, but all of the Linux
infrastructure and a lot of its maintainers are in the US and we can't
ignore the requirements of US law. We are hoping that this action
alone will be sufficient to satisfy the US Treasury department in
charge of sanctions and we won't also have to remove any existing
patches.
US law CAN'T apply on foreign ground, period. Nothing can. Just because they can bully their way around that, doesn't mean they are right.
And it should be only fair that Israeli maintainers be removed as well.
They should also rethink their infrastructure policy and whether they still want it on US soil.
This is all wishful thinking, I know, but this just goes to show you how they have absolutely no backbone whatsoever. As if anybody is gonna touch the Linux kernel and jeopardize the safety of millions of systems. We all know that is never going to happen, but they still bent over for the US... so typical... just goes to show you how little backbone everyone has, including Linus.
Oh, and don't get me started on the Russia/Finland history comment...
But folks who work for US companies building weapons for Israel are totes okay?
It's honestly fucking wild that an internationally developed open source project has to play by the US government's rules when the US government is out here helping commit genocide right the fuck now.
Like, look in the fucking mirror on this why don't you.
Maybe the better rule is that if you work for a company that produces weaponry for war you shouldn't be allowed to contribute, period.
Wow, I didn't know that being a Linux/open source contributor meant you don't have to follow your country's laws.
It's developed internationally but devs still reside somewhere and have to abide by the rules at that place. Linux in this case being represented by an US entity means they have to follow the gov's sanctions. If you want more or less of those, that's where (the government) you act.
You may be amazed to learn that there aren't many international sanctions against the USA at this time, but I imagine you could probably get into legal trouble for collaborating with Americans if you're in, I don't know, North Korea maybe.
Maybe the better rule is that if you work for a company that produces weaponry for war you shouldn't be allowed to contribute, period.
This is something I can actually get behind on.
But, you see, there is just one teeency weeency tiny problem with that. They spend trucks of cash on whatever they deem will give them what they want, including funding organizations that they profit from.
Let’s just say this properly ok so that 70 percent of the commenters here might better understand.
Association with some of the people previously on the kernel maintainers list was putting the Linux kernel at risk. The risk was that European, American, and other users may be prohibited from using it. The risk was that entities such as the Linux Foundation could be held in contempt of sanctions and sanctioned themselves. That could mean financial damage or even a full stop to operations.
If the kernel were sanctioned, every entity, individual or company, could be put at risk.
Association with sanctioned individuals put every other maintainer at risk. Being listed together in the maintainers file put many innocent people in extreme jeopardy.
So, let’s say this properly ok…
Some of the maintainers were removed to defend the Linux kernel and the many, many entities ( individual and corporate ) that use it. They were removed to protect the other maintainers and the people and companies that they associate with.
The Linux Foundation, being American, may have been particularly at risk. But “moving” the kernel does nothing. The contributors and maintainers are still wherever they are. Linux users are equally economically dependent on the US and Europe regardless. The issue are the international sanctions. My country has issued them too ( neither American or European ). And blaming the counties that issued the sanctions, instead of blaming Russia, is a very interesting morale position to take ( not getting into that here ).
My first reaction was to have a problem with how this was done. However, once you acknowledge the association, any interaction, collaboration, or communication becomes even more problematic as you KNOW that you are working with sanctioned individuals. So, doing it simply and succinctly was probably best.
These people allegedly work for companies that work for the Russian war machine. They will regain privileges if they don't work for them. So if they find a moral job, they'll be treated morally.
So shouldn't this also include the US and the many countries (most of Western Europe, plus others) involved in coalitions bombing the middle east and elsewhere?
Are they legally bound to follow any sanction list in their dealings? If so Linux foundation should consider move out of the US jurisdiction, because the santion load is just going to increase and more countries will be included.
If they are just doing this because of a political fad and partaking "the current thing" then they are just voluntarily digging their own and the linux foundation's grave.
because the santion load is just going to increase and more countries will be included.
Not to mention more stupid shit, like not being able to visit the US if your wife is Russian, cuz.. you know, you might be a spy.
If they are just doing this because of a political fad and partaking "the current thing" then they are just voluntarily digging their own and the linux foundation's grave.
My 2 cents. Nobody is asking them to do anything... yet... and they probably never will, but... they're scared shitless and they would rather comply, even for things no one is asking of them yet and is dubious whether or not they're even covered by the sanctions, than show some backbone.
Here's an idea: don't invade sovereign nations unprovoked.
(Can't wait for the inevitable "whatabout America?!" reply. Yes, America is shit too and we deserved to be punished for Iraq... Unfortunately there wasn't really any international authority that could do it)
Where should they move to? Countries that aren't sanctioning Russia right now are likely to be... problematic? in other ways. But I am also pretty ignorant about which countries are on that list, and I would like to know more.
Maybe they need to become pirates on international water...
there are a number of countries that are neutral and unlikely to sanction anyone else, though one might argue about their democratic credentials, with a minor or major stretch. brazil, mexico, chile, colombia, costa rica, uruguay (just to name a few in latin america), andorra, malta, san marino, india, south africa...
In all honesty, I'm fairly certain at the very moment he found out about it, he was puzzled. But, after reading 10 other Russians got removed as well, I'm fairly certain he knew, but wanted proof and closure. I would like both as well to be honest.
Of course, if you're living in Russia, it's dangerous to state anything other than support for Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
That doesn't mean it isn't cringeworthy to watch someone awkwardly dance around it, trying to ignore it while complaining about (checks notes) losing a bit of reputation over an unnecessary war that their country started and which literally cost thousands of lives.
Any Russian who stands up against that is incredibly brave. The others, just different levels of sad. Non-Russians who support Putin are the worst.
I understand why you'd want FOSS to not care abot borders, wars and politics and that is noble. But to call this comment racism, comes across as a veiled show of support for Putin. As if critiquing his invasion is a racist act that hurts the Russian people. Putins invasion is hurting the Russian people. Not this comment.