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Oh please. It's not psychological abuse. It's "torture" the same way telling the story about the time they told a lady in the checkout line, "I came out of my mommy's bagina!" when they were three to an adult child's partner is torture.
You show me an example of anyone suffering PTSD because their parents showed their partner baby pictures.
You show me an example of anyone suffering PTSD because their parents showed their partner baby pictures.
i literally provided myself as an example in this, i quite literally said that i would consider it a violation of privacy, and no that's not PTSD, but PTSD is the extreme end of things here. We aren't just talking about PTSD.
You claiming that it would give you PTSD is not evidence that anyone has suffered or is suffering from PTSD because of it. That's just you making an assumption about a situation you've apparently never actually faced.
i literally didn't claim that, scroll up to one of my previous comments.
i quite literally said that i would consider it a violation of privacy,
That is what you said.
What you would consider it is irrelevant to what people who have experienced it have considered it.
violation of privacy is often considered to be an extreme form of trauma for most.
That's why it's private.
You show me an example of anyone suffering PTSD because their parents showed their partner baby pictures.
Ah yes, because everything is ethical as long as the other party doesn't develop a mental illness because of it
The claim was it caused trauma. That is something that is evidence-based. You are changing the subject.
I'm sorry, you can't have experienced trauma unless you've had someone clinically analyze and diagnose you?
What kind of absurd bar is this?
Can't? No. Has? Let's see some evidence.
You can claim that seeing people in red hats causes trauma. Without evidence, it's just a claim.
People are replying and reporting trauma, you are saying you don't believe them, that its not good enough. Besides the fact its absurd that you think psychology or sociology is even close to solving or understanding nearly any of the topics we are talking about.
When it comes to psychology, self reports are evidence, and you disagreeing with that doesn't change anything.
One person claimed trauma specifically because I said to find me someone who had trauma because of it. No one else made any such claim.
There is simply no evidence that this is a traumatic experience not matter how much you desperately want it to be.
I experienced trauma from my childhood. It wasn't exclusively the pictures but it was a part of it. And my mom says the same bullshit you are saying now.
But I'm sure you'll just be so in tune with your kid, and have perfect adherence to unassailable morals, so they will make it through this abuse just fine. I don't understand why you are so proud of that fact, but here we are.
And I'm sure you'll say I made this all up for the sake of argument, since that's exactly what you told the first person.
Yeah saving it for their long term partners (if you have to) is probably a better idea than showing them during the first meeting.
And please don't dismiss other peoples trauma because you didn't experience it personally, childhood trauma takes many different forms, some we're only just becoming aware of.
I didn't dismiss anyone's trauma, I'm asking if that has ever resulted in anyone's trauma, a parent showing their adult child's partner a picture of them naked as a baby.
I mean if nothing else, not as a "torture," showing the partner the first couple of pictures of the kid as a baby should be acceptable to people just as a "this is what they looked like when it all began" and they don't come out with clothes on. They also are unable to understand the concept of consent, let alone give it.
I would also suggest that if that did cause someone trauma, it would be because the parent was aware this sort of thing would upset their child to that level and did it anyway. I think most parents wouldn't actually show the pictures if they knew it would cause the child real psychological pain, because that isn't the point in doing it. It's usually a form of good-natured ribbing, not malicious.
I didn’t dismiss anyone’s trauma, I’m asking if that has ever resulted in anyone’s trauma
How can I speak for every person? Has it caused someones trauma? Yeah I bet it has. You initially made it sound like you were showing bath pics to every teen-aged first date that came over which would obviously be pretty fucked up.
showing the partner the first couple of pictures of the kid as a baby should be acceptable to people just as a “this is what they looked like when it all began"
Yeah we agree, baby pics are fun, I especially like noting family resemblances as everyone ages. My sister made my mom a big set of scrapbooks/albums for each of her kids one year, no naked baby pics were included. They're great fun to look at, highly recommend.
They also are unable to understand the concept of consent, let alone give it.
This is the primary issue, without even going into the obvious power dynamic between child and parent when it comes to consent later. Where do a childs rights end and parents begin?
I would also suggest that if that did cause someone trauma, it would be because the parent was aware this sort of thing would upset their child to that level and did it anyway.
I would suggest that most parents think they're doing great doing it just like it's always been done (i.e. generational trauma) and "they turned out just fine." but there are definitely some intentionally abusive ones too. The child with the intentionally abusive parent is obviously going to have way more trauma.
I think most parents wouldn’t actually show the pictures if they knew it would cause the child real psychological pain, because that isn’t the point in doing it.
The "real psychological pain" part makes it look like you're dismissing trauma, just because it's not something you experienced doesn't mean it isn't valid and while intent matters so does the result. I'm sure you specifically are a good parent and you're very conscious of your kids mental headspace but by default I'd say save it for the fiance if you just have to have them.
Just wanted to say that I appreciate the nuanced debate here, and that neither of you resulted in insulting each other after getting to the bottom of it. More of this on Lemmy!
The real psychological pain comes from the realisation that your parent never really cared about your boundaries.
They'll even give your ITR account OTP to someone who will block you out from it and it will be your fault for trusting them with it, but I guess this example is too irrelevant.The teenage years are around the time when children start evaluating their own actions and start having their own personality (which is kinda related to the rebellious stage). They realise the power dynamic between them and their parent which they were until then not conscious about.
It is the parents' actions during this time that determines what their evaluation of the past power dynamic will be and so will be their decision of what relationship they will have with their parents once they are financially independent.So, whether or not the experience is traumatic, your future relationship with your child depends upon how much they care about who sees their pictures.
Has it caused someones trauma? Yeah I bet it has.
Cool. Psychology isn't based on your bets.
This is the primary issue, without even going into the obvious power dynamic between child and parent when it comes to consent later. Where do a childs rights end and parents begin?
Again, if we argue that children have to consent to get their photo taken, no one should take any photos of their children below the age where they can do that. That means no baby pictures at all.
The “real psychological pain” part makes it look like you’re dismissing trauma
You have no evidence of this trauma. You're just guessing.
Psychology isn't based on your bets.
Spoken like someone who's never been in therapy or studied psychology, people bet and guess and infer stuff all the time; it's a "soft" science for a reason.
That means no baby pictures at all.
Specifically pictures of their genitals, I feel like no baby genital pics is a good default, yes, what a weird hill to die on.
You have no evidence of this trauma.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
You're just guessing.
Guessing, inferring, surmising, call it whatever helps you sleep at night. I think of it as erring on the side of safety and respect for my kids. Not having pics of their junk doesn't make my life any worse, there's only downsides for them.
Again, babies don't come out with clothes on. The idea of expecting consent for sending grandparents pictures of what their newborn grandchild looked like when it was just a few seconds old is ridiculous.
And yes, psychology is a soft science. That doesn't mean that you personally can claim that people have been traumatized by this without showing any evidence of it just like you can't claim that people have been traumatized by a Luke Skywalker action figure without showing any evidence of it. You can infer whatever you like. Inferences aren't truth and they are based on personal biases.
Suggesting that because psychology is a soft science, you can make whatever claim about trauma you infer is ridiculous. Where did you get your psychology degree from, anyway?
We're talking about pictures of your kids genitals. What a weird fucking hill to die on. Its your kid, take all the pics you want, probably don't get caught with them on your phone.
It's ok to just say "you know what you might have a point" and walk away sometimes my dude.
And yet I don't think you do have a point without evidence, so I'm not sure why I'd say that.
Again, where did you get your psychology degree from?
Its your kid, take all the pics you want, probably don’t get caught with them on your phone.
I'm sorry... do you think it's illegal to have a photo of a naked baby on your phone?
And yet I don't think you do have a point without evidence,
My point is childhood trauma takes a lot of forms and "good natured" showing naked pictures of your children to potential romantic partners the first time they visit (the thing we were talking about) is undoubtedly traumatic for a portion that experience it. I'm not aware of any specific studies studying the impact of showing nude photos of your children to their potential romantic suitors but I do know that childhood trauma has been studied and has far-reaching, unknown impacts. Even if the victim often doesn't recognize the instance as abuse until much later in life, if ever.
https://psychcentral.com/blog/psychology-self/2018/09/childhood-toxic-shame
https://mind.help/news/childhood-humiliation-can-leave-lifelong-scars-warn-mental-health-experts/
Again, where do you get your psychology degree from?
I was about halfway through a sociology degree (admittedly as a pretty subpar state university) before I transferred to CS. What'd you study?
I’m sorry… do you think it’s illegal to have a photo of a naked baby on your phone?
They're not something I'd want on my phone obviously.
Sorry... you're saying a baby feels trauma and shame when it has its picture taken and that leads to psychological problems as an adult and creates more trauma when you show that photo to their partner?
Also, virtually every new parent has photos of their baby naked on their phone. And it's legal. I have no idea why you don't think it would be. A nude picture of your own baby is not child porn. No one has ever been put on a sex offender list for having a picture of their child just after it exited the womb on their phone. What a silly thing to say.