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At least she voted.
Yeah, you know who I'm talking about. Where y'all at now? Fucking crickets.
No, actually, people who voted for Trump are worse than people who stayed home.
Until the Democratic Party stops excluding the Bernies of the world, elections like these are what we're going to get. No one believes Democrats will actually do what they say they're going to do, not even their own voters.
Until the Democratic Party stops excluding the Bernies of the world
So long as the entire corporate media system is poisoned against even the most mild democratic socialism of a 1980s-style left-liberal, the party isn't going to do that.
Go back and watch what happened in 2020 when Sanders won Nevada. MSNBC, the "liberal" news outlet had Chris Matthews wailing in fear at the prospect of being lynched in Central Park. FOX News was screeching about how the entire campaign had been infiltrated by Chinese Communists and Hamas Terrorists. I'm amazed Sanders didn't get the Harvey Milk treatment after he took California.
Bernie Sanders, AOC, and the progressive movement as a whole is entirely at odds with the Amazons and Starbucks and JP Morgan Chases that rule our world. Even in big blue states like New York (in big blue cities like NYC), progressives can't win the high offices, because the establishment is so nakedly hostile to economic populism. Bernie's own bright blue home state of Vermont voted in a Republican for governor by a Ba'ath Party 73/21 margin, rather than tolerate another Howard Dean style progressive Dem in that seat.
No one believes Democrats will actually do what they say they’re going to do
Joe Biden to rich donors: "Nothing would fundamentally change" if he's elected
I believed him. I believed statements like this paved his road to victory in 2020.
I believed him. I believed statements like this paved his road to victory in 2020.
Absolutely.
I'll admit I voted Biden in 2020, thinking that a cultural win against resurgent American fascism would help turn the tide of history. (I didn't have any delusions that he'd actually rule as a progressive.)
Four years later, with millions more in poverty, it's only done the opposite.
I voted for Biden in 2020 wanting to give people a chance to remember they’re human, one timescale hoping that his centrist approach had a chance of fixing government. I voted for him again seeing that he made all the attempts anyone could imagine and was starting to attempt a few more progressive things
Trump is not fit to run the bank in a game of Monopoly, and I would vote against it
I'd vote Charlie Sheen over Trump
At least he'd be able to act like he cared...
That would mean the DNC forever losing control of the party and therefore the rich losing control. They won't let that happen even if it ends this country.
Nothing will meaningfully improve until the rich fear for their lives
I think you're right.
Eh. They're the same to me.
Both groups are irreedemable losers, just in different ways.
People who support Nazis are basically the same as people that just kind of let Nazis do their thing without lifting a finger.
You won't lift a finger now that the election is over.
By a slight margin.
Killing two people is worse than killing one person. Both are still morally questionable actions.
Killing two people is worse than killing one person.
Which people?
Agreed but I think the ones who stayed home and actively encouraged others to do the same are worse than Trump voters who keep it to themselves. That Trump voters scored 1 vote and the armchair activist made at least one person not vote
Ah I see: A vote for Trump is one vote for Trump, but not voting for Trump is two votes for Trump.
Honest question: how could I have improved the clarity of my comment to avoid it being interpreted as wrong as you did? I'll rephrase it in bullet points.
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A Trump voter who doesn't preach is 1 vote for Trump
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A non-voter who doesn't preach is 1 vote for Trump
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A Trump voter who preaches is at least 1 vote for Trump as they are actively encouraging others to vote for him. Their vote is the 1 plus the people they might influence
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A non-voters who preaches is at least 1 vote for Trump as they are actively encouraging others to not vote. Their vote is the 1 plus the people they might influence
So in summary:
People who promoted voting for Trump AND people who promoted not voting are worse than people who quietly voted for Trump. All 3 groups are worse than quiet non-voters.
OC is referring to the non-voting advocates that disappeared from political discussions on Lemmy after the election.
I don't remember anyone actively encouraging others to not vote. I'm pretty sure people would just openly say "I am not voting" and then be forced to defend themselves, but that's certainly not the same as trying to convince other people to not vote.
Were you active on Lemmy earlier this year? It was pervasive. I don't mean posts detailing why you shouldn't vote, I mean tons of comments saying that if you voted Democrat this election, you supported genocide.
I'm just not sure if it stopped because their contracts ended or because the ruble tanked in value.
tons of comments saying that if you voted Democrat this election, you supported genocide.
Yeah, I believe that too. That isn't the same as telling people not to vote. If you believe you have to vote for genocide to stop a greater genocide then more power to you, but you aren't allowed to pretend you didn't vote for genocide.
I’m just not sure if it stopped because their contracts ended or because the ruble tanked in value.
Maybe you didn't know this, but the election ended.
Ya know what, you're right! Shaming people for voting is not the exact same thing as directly instructing them not to vote. That is a super important distinction that absolutely changes their role in getting other people not to vote.
It also seems I was wrong about those commenters disappearing after the election. It was my fault to assume that they had a solution to propose. I wasn't considering how hard that would be to find in total darkness with their heads up their asses.
You've defeated me on a technicality so now I must leave this conversation. Farewell!
The person you're talking to was one of the biggest voices of this shit before the election.
Yeah, fuck them.
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It's all a moot point when you consider the anti-democratic functions of our EC and winner-take-all district system.
Yelling at the One Trump Voter or the One Jill Stein Voter or the One Hilary Clinton/Joe Biden/Bernie Sanders Primary Voter or what-the-fuck-ever is meaningless in the context of machine politics that ultimately decide who runs for office and who wins. The tiny cartel of partisan State Secretaries purging millions of voter registrations with a bias towards demographic groups that favor opposition parties will have a far more significant impact than your single ballot choice. The billions spent on advertising and marketing to shape public perception and limit the scope of national discourse, the tens of billions spent to orchestrate national media and pander to certain elite, overly represented economic interests, and the decades of Cold War propaganda we've been drenched in since Paul Weyrich, Pat Buchanan, and James Dobson gaslite generations of evangelical voters into believing defunding Medicaid would save unborn children, are far more responsible for the current state of electoral politics than your 11th hour hot take on who should be President.
Americans want desperately to believe that their liberal democracy isn't like the kletocracies and kakocracies of the Big Bad Foreign Countries. But this exceptionalist (deeply white nationalist) mindset is just one more layer of bullshit we've all been forced to swallow.
The people who voted for Trump have been hoodwinked into voting against their best interests thanks to an entire consent manufacturing industry. And the people who voted for Biden/Harris, thinking they could win over these scammed voters by softly pandering to the same set of reactionary, xenophobic campaign pledges and bullshit paranoid theories and get-rich-quick scams are also getting hoodwinked.
You're trapped in a systematic failure of electoral populism. "Don't blame me, I voted for the other guy!" isn't a way out. Its just a dogmatic belief that the Other Corporate Candidate was the panacea to the deep corruption that ails us.
Our electoral system has been having a scaling issue since the 1800s when we started adding a bunch of states. We patched over it with things like the Missouri Compromise and broadcast media, but now that we've closed the Gutenberg parenthesis we're too balkanized as a society for the elections to work.
No, you see, the answer was voting harder. Centrists have the answer: extremely minor policy interventions without any structural changes whatsoever. The real enemy are the leftists, because The End of History only faltered because people don't listen to centrists.
Edit: guys this is sarcasm....
Cool. And that makes a difference how exactly? I'm sure dividing Americans into "terrible" and "slightly less terrible" categories is definitely going to solve all their problems.
Well we need to know who needs to go into reeducation camps.
It's true. All those people who willingly didn't vote and are complaining can get fucked.
I don't think those ones are complaining, at least everyone I know isn't
Think of it this way.
You're a wage worker who's just sat through eight years of the Federal Government, under both parties, doing absolutely nothing to mitigate the struggle of your daily existence. Are you going to choose to miss a badly-needed day's pay to vote?
No. You've already observed that there's no point.
There are countless examples of Democrats trying to make lives better, and Republicans denying bills and voting against it.
They are not the same at all, and idiots who vote R or don't vote are the reason Rs are allowed to continue to run the US into the ground.
There are countless examples of Democrats trying to make lives better, and Republicans denying bills and voting against it.
People can't eat excuses. Maybe next time put some Democracy back into the Democratic Party instead of crowning a candidate who let it all happen. Those of us who don't hang out in an echo chamber could see this coming from a mile a way, hell, Harris couldn't even win a primary against Tulsi Gabbard.
Well that fifty bucks cost us any forward progress or even retaining past progress so great job. Non-voters fucked us all by not giving a shit. People died to give everyone the right to vote, throwing it away for "a day's pay" is insanity especially because the law states you get to vote - with pay. Anyone who doesn't see the radical difference in the parties is trying very, very hard not to
And to be clear, we have defeated ourselves. Name the cause you want to highlight, but not voting has stopped all progress and rolled back even more.
Non-voters fucked us all by not giving a shit.
No, they didn't. Partisan voters fucked us all by not caring about politicians' records. For 40 years straight.
Are you going to choose to miss a badly-needed day's pay to vote?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/7489
Also some states/employers already do this.
Also some states/employers already do this.
Yup, your rights in many parts of the country vary significantly depending on your zip code, and unless you're a billionaire or okay with achieving notoriety by following in the footsteps of a particular Italian gentleman, there's nothing you can do to change it. (At least outside of your local community.)
People understand this, they are just saying that there was a choice between having a vote for the same, or voting for trump. And between those two chosing not for the same means voting for trump, even by not voting.
If they end up worse afterwards, don't complain. That one day of much needed work hopefully pays for the years that come afterwards.
If they end up worse afterwards, don’t complain
Until the Democratic Party and their voters develop empathy for workers, they're going to continue to lose elections.
Your voting is messed up and needs to change. I'm not going to say Australia is perfect, but we have compulsory voting and they do their best to make it as easy as possible for every single person to vote. The fact people would have to even CONSIDER missing work to vote is an absolute joke.
The fact people would have to even CONSIDER missing work to vote is an absolute joke.
You're right. Voting is made arbitrarily difficult here in the States because we're ruled by the wealthy, simple as that.
If only there WAS SOME WAY TO CHANGE THAT.
Goddamn.
The fuck? Which party has ever done anything for workers?
ANY legislation that supported workers came from the Democrats. Don't give a shit and consign us to demented fascism through your careless inaction but saying garbage like that is BULLSHIT. Learn something.