Diplomacy dies on live TV as Trump and Vance gang up to bully Ukraine leader
Diplomacy dies on live TV as Trump and Vance gang up to bully Ukraine leader
US president said his horrific blow-up would make ‘great television’ – the White House has never seen anything like it
Summary
Trump just presided over one of the greatest diplomatic disasters in modern history, with flared tempers, raised voices, and shredded protocol.
Never before has a U.S. president bullied and berated an adversary, never mind an ally, in such a public way.
During a tense Oval Office meeting, Trump and JD Vance attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, demanding he accept a peace deal with Russia or lose U.S. support.
The conversation devolved into shouting, with Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being ungrateful and “gambling with World War III.”
The meeting ended in chaos, with no agreement reached.
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Congrats Never Genocide people posing as Progressives. We fucking warned you that exactly this was going to happen. Trump and his cult would side with Russia and throw Ukraine under the bus.
Great fucking job.
And great fucking job, Mods, for protecting those fucks in the name of civility.
We are the baddies now. And we got here because you'd rather protect Nazis from being punched in the mouth for their words and actions in the name of civility.
Thank fucking God we didn't vote for Harris because she wouldn't outright condemn Israel. Totally worth everything happening now (that any remotely educated and reasonable person warned about).
Better to suck Putin’s cock than to have a female president
At least no centrist had to abandon support for genocide.
Gaslighting people into believing that Harris did not promise unconditional support for Israel's genocide I see.
You're in a lemmy.world instance, brown lives are acceptable sacrifices to them.
I hope you're joking
Doing God's work in excusing the DNC's unwillingness to do what it took to defeat Trump (just like, right now, they're not doing what it takes to stop him).
For the instinctive ass-kisser it's never the Royalty who is to blame, always the plebes.
With an "opposition" that doesn't actually oppose and is ever less representative of the population, Project 2025 was always going to happen, sooner or later, since the trend of the last 2 decades has been ever more of far right populism, propped up by the Democrats' ever more Rightwing policies and ever less trying to represent the broader population (and repeatedly using "we're not them" as their entire electoral strategy).
You know what might've worked? Not having licked the boots of the Democrat Leadership during the last decade or two.
Now, you're getting to enjoy the bed you made for yourself.
They really have you all wrapped around their fingers, don’t they? Your democracy is literally on fire around you and the best both ”sides” can do is bicker whose fault it is.
There was never any democracy to begin with if you can't vote for whoever the fuck you want, without resorting to "lesser evil" strategies.
So long as we have strict elections of a singular position like president, you are pretty much going to have to vote for lesser evil. It doesn't matter how many parties are running, the president is a singular office.
Other nations with more robust parties sidestep this by having an elected body figure out the executive, rather than direct elections of that office.
if you want those third parties get them into the house and maybe the Senate, where the task is feasible. For the singular president of the nation, whoever is doing the voting will have to be strategic. I'm disenchanted when I see those parties just make a presidential run without really investing much in the down ballot races.
The fixes are either removing direct presidential election, or severely curtailing the practical powers of the office. We shouldn't be so subject to the whims of a singular position.
Or just use ranked voting or rated voting. Single winner doesn't imply the god awful first-past-the-post method
Sure, that lets people vote for who they want and still vote for someone that will actually win in a larger election, maybe pick up some more local offices.
Frankly Democrats should be big on RCV. The hard right and moderate right vote together, but the progressive is more split and a larger chunk refuses to vote strategically, at least if that is their only vote. RCV gives then the ability to vote the way they want to and still vote for a candidate with more broad acceptance.
Not sure it would have done anything in this presidential race, since there's no sign of third party vote being enough to change things in any remotely close state. It might have at least relieved the vitriol between would be allies over Democrat voters refusing to vote with the harder left versus the further left refusing to vote strategically with the Democrats.
There would remain the hopefully miniscule but very loud progressives that think either the electorate goes perfectly for their perfect candidate, or else someone like Trump should win to teach those voters a lesson, and maybe break things so hard that a path forward for their favored leaders to get in power.
That's by design.
Well, the people aren't really capable of anything on our own, so what else are we going to do on discussion forums?
The people who can actually do something continue to pretend they have 0 idea how to do their fucking Jobs, they're not playing the blame game rn because they're too incompetent (willing or otherwise) to get that far
Funny how you instantly presumed my opinion was from "They" (whomever "they" are).
Way to project how you see politics - in a Tribalist and Unthinking "Follow the Leader" way - onto others.
It's exactly through reasoning logically up from actual Principles that one concludes that the Democrat Party leadership are nothing more than unprincipled slick grifters representing whomever pays them better (which invariably are some very, very rich people), even when many of the common members of Democrat Party aren't at all like that but have either been swindled into going along with it (easy to do when people are tribalists and hence whatever their "leaders" tells them needs not be questioned with a keen skeptical eye) or just disempowered via anti-democratic mechanisms such as "super delegates".
America is as America is now thanks to all the useful idiots, and that's both the ones on the Republican and on the Democrat side.
"why oh why couldn't the democrats have run a good candidate like the republicans! a con man grifter felon rapist who bankrupts casinos! and hangs out with epstein"
Also congrats to the Dems for not being against genocide in the first place. And losing to this orange buffoon twice.
We are the baddies now
We were the baddies before.
If you don't think arming a genocide made us baddies already then I'm not on the same side as you and you cannot expect my vote
Jesus fucking Christ, I wished they had all voted Democrat just to shut you up. Trump is bad enough but hearing you guys complain about this over and over is just too much.
Let it go, for fuck sakes. Deal with it.
Congrats Never Genocide people posing as Progressives
Centrists do think that "never genocide" is a bad position.
We fucking warned you that exactly this was going to happen.
No. You screamed abuse at anyone to your left and only your left because opposition to genocide is opposition to your wing of the party. Progressives tried to warn you what would happen if you didn't ditch Netanyahu. We could read the writing on the wall. You had all the warning in the fucking world that if you kept pissing off people you needed to win, they wouldn't vote for you. You loved genocide so dearly that you kept going.
We are the baddies now.
You always have been. I reluctantly voted for Harris and I may one day stop resenting being manipulated into voting for genocide.
I kinda feel like the 'never genocide' people were always secretly embarrassed trumpsuckers.
But I don't have a problem with mods giving them the same protections as the rest of us. I think those people are a bunch of wankers but I don't want Lemmy turning into more of an echo chamber than it already is.
I kinda feel like the ‘never genocide’ people were always secretly embarrassed trumpsuckers.
Yes, that was the accusation leveled at anyone to the left of netanyahu after the mods made it clear that screaming "russian" was against the civility rules.